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Posted
2 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

That just proves the point dude. Nobody gave a shit about that except some random academics. Congratulations on finding a news link about it, now ask yourself why it was newsworthy in the first place if it was never really a topic of importance on the left. Could it have anything to do with that right-wing news media you keep taking your cues from?

Read the article dude

Only days earlier, a poll by Bendixen & Amandi International, a Democratic Latino voter outreach group, found 30% of Hispanic voters are less likely to support politicians who use the term. The 30% was made up of 24% Democrats and 43% Republicans.

Welp lets keep using the term! 

According to Pew Research, 38% of U.S. Hispanics are aware of term, while only 13% of those with a high school diploma or less are. Additionally, U.S.-born and predominantly English speakers were more likely to have heard and use the term.

38% of hispanics is not just "academics" and if 1/4 hispanic democrats are less likely to support a politician using it why the fuck do it? Don't get me wrong they are idiots, but our side is apparently dumber. It wasn't until these polls started to come out when the slur died, but it was because of lobbying of people like me calling them idiots for using it. I got a ton of bans from that.

 

Posted
5 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Okay so this was 2021, who from the Biden/Harris campaigns was using it in 2024?

I don't fault Harris for this, if anything I do give her credit for never falling into the trap of talking about the culture wars.

But you guys need to stop pretending that elections are won or lost on election day. No, elections are decided years in advance, at least for democrats they are, the cult of Trump can rely on selective memory and forget everything on election day.

 

Posted

NOBODY USED THE FUCKING TERM JFC

I'm on the left, I spend a lot of time on leftist websites and whatnot and LatinX was not EVER. A. THING.

You're tilting at windmills.

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Posted

Linux: Woke is the aggressive use of identity politics to frame an issue/object/discussion. 

Erykah Badu: “I can tell you what woke means: It just means being aware, being in alignment with nature, because if you’re in alignment with that, you’re aware of everything that’s going on. It’s not only in the political arena. That means with your health. That means in your relationships. That means in your home. That means in your car. That means in your sleep.”

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2023-03-29/erykah-badu-woke-definition-conservatives-master-teacher

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

NOBODY USED THE FUCKING TERM JFC

I'm on the left, I spend a lot of time on leftist websites and whatnot and LatinX was not EVER. A. THING.

You're tilting at windmills.

You are wrong, for the record it was actually 23% it was 38% college graduate hispanics so the article misinterpreted the polls.

image.png.20260d48fc5d52240da13be95c82abc2.png

How can something that was heard by 23% of hispanics (and nearly universally rejected) be considered esoteric? you are wrong dude, 100% wrong.

Only days earlier, a poll by Bendixen & Amandi International, a Democratic Latino voter outreach group, found 30% of Hispanic voters are less likely to support politicians who use the term. The 30% was made up of 24% Democrats and 43% Republicans.

Hey guys lets keep using the term so toxic that is driving away hispanic democrats! galaxy brain move right there.

 

Edited by linux
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

NOBODY USED THE FUCKING TERM JFC

I'm on the left, I spend a lot of time on leftist websites and whatnot and LatinX was not EVER. A. THING.

You're tilting at windmills.

You do realize that it cannot be a term used on those websites but still be used as a campaign negative that can be pushed by the other party, right?

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

You do realize that it cannot be a term used on those websites but still be used as a campaign negative that can be pushed by the other party, right?

Of course, just as the GOP weaponized terms  like "woke" and "DEI" and "CRT"  so ding dongs like linux will eat up that framing while pretending LatinX was ever anything but an obscure nothing-burger on the left. 

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Posted

Its crazy how broken brained some of you are. Stop trying to score intellectual points. You aren't here arguing the merits of policy and politics. You are in here arguing about the inefficacy of a political party because they legitimately don't know how to relate with fucking anyone except those who are self motivated and empathetic. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Of course, just as the GOP weaponized terms  like "woke" and "DEI" and "CRT"  so ding dongs like linux will eat up that framing while pretending LatinX was ever anything but an obscure nothing-burger on the left. 

DEI is fucking stupid and has been stupid forever. 

You don't need a fucking department to just do the right thing and it doesn't have to be called some three letter fad. Thats the problem. The problem isn't what the desired outcomes are, it's how fucking dumb the framework is to get there and because of how dumb it is it never fully realizes the potential of the desired outcome. 

Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, immamac said:

DEI is fucking stupid and has been stupid forever. 

You don't need a fucking department to just do the right thing and it doesn't have to be called some three letter fad. Thats the problem. The problem isn't what the desired outcomes are, it's how fucking dumb the framework is to get there and because of how dumb it is it never fully realizes the potential of the desired outcome. 

But what if the department was called Super Efficient Xcellence!

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
7 minutes ago, immamac said:

You don't need a fucking department to just do the right thing and it doesn't have to be called some three letter fad.

so by that logic, do you need a law to just do the right thing?

Posted

Looping back on Al Franken because it is democratic party politics

Reporting in 2019 by New Yorker journalist Jane Mayer documented substantial inaccuracies in Tweeden's allegations.[156] Seven former or current senators who called for Franken's resignation in 2017 told Mayer they regretted doing so. Patrick Leahy said calling for Franken's resignation without having all the facts was "one of the biggest mistakes I've made" as a senator. New Mexico senator Tom Udall said, "I made a mistake. I started having second thoughts shortly after he stepped down. He had the right to be heard by an independent investigative body. I've heard from people around my state, and around the country, saying that they think he got railroaded. It doesn't seem fair. I'm a lawyer. I really believe in due process." Former Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said, "It's terrible what happened to him. It was unfair. It took the legs out from under him. He was a very fine senator."[156]

Accusations that the forced resignation was unfair were described as a liability to Gillibrand's presidential campaign in mid-2019.[157] In a 2018 Politico article, Franken supporters accused Gillibrand of doing damage that Republicans could not have done, given Franken's effectiveness in the Senate. Prominent Democratic fundraiser Susie Tompkins Buell said that the episode "stained [Gillibrand's] reputation as a fair player. I do hear people refer to Kirsten Gillibrand as 'opportunistic' and shrewd at the expense of others to advance herself, and it seems to have been demonstrated in her rapid treatment of her colleague Al Franken. I heard her referred to as 'She would eat her own,' and she seems to have demonstrated that. I know [Gillibrand] thought she was doing the right thing, but I think she will be remembered by this rush to judgment. I have heard [that] some of her women colleagues regret joining her."[158]

In 2019, Franken said that he was sorry that he made some women feel uncomfortable, and that while he was still trying to understand what he did wrong, he felt that differentiating dissimilar kinds of behavior is important. "The idea that anybody who accuses someone of something is always right—that's not the case. That isn't reality," he said.[156]

We did this shit to ourselves, imagine if it had been him and not Biden who was nominated in 2020? I mean I know he did not want to run in 2020, but at the same time you can't be getting rid of your best players because of identity politics jockeying.

Posted
Just now, linux said:

Looping back on Al Franken because it is democratic party politics

 

 

I agree with this 100% and thought as much at the time. I couldn't believe Al gave in so easily instead of fighting for his seat. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, linux said:

I don't fault Harris for this, if anything I do give her credit for never falling into the trap of talking about the culture wars.

But you guys need to stop pretending that elections are won or lost on election day. No, elections are decided years in advance, at least for democrats they are, the cult of Trump can rely on selective memory and forget everything on election day.

 

I agree with you that elections are not won or lost on election day. But where is the evidence that SJWs single-handedly alienated the American electorate? There's stronger evidence suggesting the effect of SJWs has always been negligible, like a missed call early in the Knicks' Game 6 blowout of the Celtics. Nominating Hillary Clinton, allowing Biden to run for a second term, muscling out anyone with political instincts in favor of fossils because "it's their turn," and listening to malpractitioner Beltway consultants, those things absolutely eclipse the impact that gender studies blowhards could ever have.

The Democrats haven't figured out how to address resentment, which was the fuel of Gamergate and is now the fuel of MAGA. It doesn't take much effort or intellect to conclude that young men are prone to resentment and especially vulnerable to messages that validate those feelings. Once you understand the strategy the playbook comes into focus, and damn it's a remarkably flexible playbook. Whoever the audience is (maybe it's nerdy guys, maybe it's athletic guys) figure out what their insecurities are and craft an explanation for those insecurities in which something unfair is to blame. For the nerds, it's unfair that women will never pay attention to you. For the jocks, it's unfair that society scolds traditional masculinity.

No matter what's going on in your life, even if you're a trust fund kid who always gets laid, you're the victim. Something unfair happened to you. And we (the content creators shoved onto your feed by dark money) are the only ones brave and perceptive enough to acknowledge this injustice.

That's how you convert resentment into a captive audience. After that, the media diet more or less takes care of itself. Steven Crowder, Matt Walsh, Andrew Tate, whoever it is, they present information through the resentment narrative's lens, which reinforces their common values and builds communities on a sort of in-group loyalty.

The reason I bring all this up is that, even if SJWs had never existed, the playbook is extremely adaptable. Like a MacGuffin, it doesn't actually matter what the social circumstances are, a resentment-based political movement will find a villain and craft a narrative around it.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I agree with you that elections are not won or lost on election day. But where is the evidence that SJWs single-handedly alienated the American electorate? There's stronger evidence suggesting the effect of SJWs has always been negligible, like a missed call early in the Knicks' Game 6 blowout of the Celtics. Nominating Hillary Clinton, allowing Biden to run for a second term, muscling out anyone with political instincts in favor of fossils because "it's their turn," and listening to malpractitioner Beltway consultants, those things absolutely eclipse the impact that gender studies blowhards could ever have.

The Democrats haven't figured out how to address resentment, which was the fuel of Gamergate and is now the fuel of MAGA. It doesn't take much effort or intellect to conclude that young men are prone to resentment and especially vulnerable to messages that validate those feelings. Once you understand the strategy the playbook comes into focus, and damn it's a remarkably flexible playbook. Whoever the audience is (maybe it's nerdy guys, maybe it's athletic guys) figure out what their insecurities are and craft an explanation for those insecurities in which something unfair is to blame. For the nerds, it's unfair that women will never pay attention to you. For the jocks, it's unfair that society scolds traditional masculinity.

No matter what's going on in your life, even if you're a trust fund kid who always gets laid, you're the victim. Something unfair happened to you. And we (the content creators shoved onto your feed by dark money) are the only ones brave and perceptive enough to acknowledge this injustice.

That's how you convert resentment into a captive audience. After that, the media diet more or less takes care of itself. Steven Crowder, Matt Walsh, Andrew Tate, whoever it is, they present information through the resentment narrative's lens, which reinforces their common values and builds communities on a sort of in-group loyalty.

The reason I bring all this up is that, even if SJWs had never existed, the playbook is extremely adaptable. Like a MacGuffin, it doesn't actually matter what the social circumstances are, a resentment-based political movement will find a villain and craft a narrative around it.

I mean I can try to paint a path and a picture, but no, nobody has scientific proof of anything. People still debate if the Franz Ferdinand assassination really started WWI, they are wrong but yeah I have no scientific proof.

We should not be paralyzed by this though, there was a baseline 40% of Gen Z men were going MAGA, that was the expectation baked into the model, older people would die, younger people would be more progressive and we could see the light at the end of the tunnel. That calculus changed and while it might have not been enough  to alter the 2024 election the repercussions are real and will be with us for the rest of our lives, the question is how to reverse course without looking like a bunch of out of touch "why hello fellow kids".

Feminists positing Coach Tim Walz as a male role model was offensive and tone deaf.  Hell you need someone like DiCaprio who is a lady's man, but guess what? feminists loathe Leo because he dates young women. We can't let the inmates run the asylum.

Posted

SJWs are not and never have been even remotely as impactful as the assassination of Franz Ferdinand. You should re-examine why you're so quick to blame feminism for the failures of the Democratic Party.

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Posted
9 minutes ago, linux said:

Feminists positing Coach Tim Walz as a male role model was offensive and tone deaf.  Hell you need someone like DiCaprio who is a lady's man, but guess what? feminists loathe Leo because he dates young women. We can't let the inmates run the asylum.

what the everlivin fuck are you talking about?

you're not making any sense at all.

Posted
1 minute ago, Gourmand said:

what the everlivin fuck are you talking about?

you're not making any sense at all.

Quote

Tim Walz is a man's man, unlike MAGA's man-children

A good male role model from the Democrats is an excellent foil for the cartoon version of masculinity on offer from the Republican Party.

Cringe

https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/2024/08/16/tim-walz-jd-vance-donald-trump-masculinity-childless-cat-lady-women-attacks-mona-charen

I get the sentiment, but this is dumb. I like Tim but hoisting him as a male role model is unbelievably tone deaf.

Posted

He is a role model, though. What kind of pandering to Gen Z men would you have preferred? Keep in mind that, no matter what, the right-wing propaganda machine is going to have a problem with it and continue its appeal to their resentment.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, linux said:

I like Tim but hoisting him as a male role model is unbelievably tone deaf.

Tone deaf to what??? And why are you so obsessed with being a tone cop? Is everyone supposed to cater to the asmongold incel dipshit crowd?

 

Edited by Gourmand
Posted
3 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

He is a role model, though. What kind of pandering to Gen Z men would you have preferred? Keep in mind that, no matter what, the right-wing propaganda machine is going to have a problem with it and continue its appeal to their resentment.

I mean you kinda said so yourself he has to be good with women, well to be specific have the PR image of being that. Leo is the only one I can think of, he is an environmentalist that backed Harris, but lives a private life. Good luck with ever recruiting him to be vocal though, after the constant vilification from the feminist movement.

Posted
2 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Tone deaf to what??? And why are you so obsessed with being a tone cop? Is everyone supposed to cater to the asmongold incel dipshit crowd?

 

I don't think asmongold has an incel dipshit crowd and I think you are actually a bright shining beacon of what is wrong with the democratic party. You are gatekeeping a fucking guy trying to express frustration and give examples of what they think needs to change. 

Posted
He is a role model, though. What kind of pandering to Gen Z men would you have preferred? Keep in mind that, no matter what, the right-wing propaganda machine is going to have a problem with it and continue its appeal to their resentment.

Yep. My gen z son liked Tim because…that’s the kind of men he’s had modeled for him (not just by me - by all the men he’s been around, hunting, tailgating, building a deer blind, rigging up a tractor, doing a church service project, disaster relief work, etc). He IS a man’s man.
And funny enough, in terms of “modeling things that help young men get laid,” my son assures me the Walz model puts him light years ahead of his competition. Confident, competent men who treat people with the decency that a non-fragile man who isn’t trying to project false bravado can bring to bear…well, they can get all the dates they can handle.
We’re failing our young men because what we’re modeling for them as a society makes things worse for them, not better. It makes them LESS successful, and LESS desirable.
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Posted (edited)

last few pages are a couple of people arguing that the molehill that fascist propagandists have made into a mountain is indeed a mountain and is being shoved in their faces, yet 98 times out of 100 when someone is talking about this it's the fascist propaganda doing the shoving.

Edited by elfenix
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Posted
Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

It's kind of his point tho...

Not the way I read his post. I don't agree with gatekeeping anyone, and I know @linux has good politics, so I'm not going to dogpile or insult him. What I will do is say that we should resist the temptation of convenient (but flawed) explanations for why the party fails. There are columnists who blame feminism, and wokeism, and social justice warriors, the scapegoat du jour. These hacks are not and never have been invested in the success of the left. The only want to drive engagement on their shitty blog by baiting people into fighting among themselves. The right sees all involved as useful idiots.

The Democratic party fails because it's being run by incompetent, weak people.

Posted
Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

Go on with this....who are these incompetent, weak people pandering to the most? 

 

See for yourself.

Posted
Just now, Brisketexan said:


Dude…that ship has SAILED.

Politician isn't a "role" I'd ever want, but as far as public figures go you could do a lot worse than Walz.

Posted
8 minutes ago, immamac said:

I don't think asmongold has an incel dipshit crowd

oh really?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Asmongold/

14 minutes ago, immamac said:

You are gatekeeping a fucking guy trying to express frustration and give examples of what they think needs to change. 

i'm not gatekeeping anything,  from what I've seen of him he's a magat pos and he's extraordinarily terrible at analysis and has no informed political opinions. his rise to prominence is indicative of the problem of right-wing radicalization of young men via social media algos. the manosphere thing is a huge grift wherein ppl like Tim Pool and Andrew Tate and Asmongold can exploit the idea of male loneliness for themselves for click$ and engagement while also furthering the male loneliness epidemic as they blame all the problems young men face on ginned-up culture war nonsense, not addressing the systemic economic issues ushered in by unchecked neoliberal capitalism made worse by the political establishment's refusal to address them. 

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Posted
16 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

oh really?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Asmongold/

i'm not gatekeeping anything,  from what I've seen of him he's a magat pos and he's extraordinarily terrible at analysis and has no informed political opinions. his rise to prominence is indicative of the problem of right-wing radicalization of young men via social media algos. the manosphere thing is a huge grift wherein ppl like Tim Pool and Andrew Tate and Asmongold can exploit the idea of male loneliness for themselves for click$ and engagement while also furthering the male loneliness epidemic as they blame all the problems young men face on ginned-up culture war nonsense, not addressing the systemic economic issues ushered in by unchecked neoliberal capitalism made worse by the political establishment's refusal to address them. 

You are looking at modern politics through a outdated viewpoint. 

Posted

I’m far from being a conspiracy theorist, but there might have been some high stakes hijinks in the vote results last November. It’s also possible that the election was lost when VP Harris was placed at the top of the ticket…and not because she bad. It was some other stuff that made people believe Trump would be the better choice the second time around.

Posted

How do you win over young men who hate women, brown people, non-Christian religious people, and homos, trannies and other queers and blame them for their lady exploit failures and other problems all while they say they don’t hate anyone, please do tell. 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, immamac said:

DEI is fucking stupid and has been stupid forever. 

You don't need a fucking department to just do the right thing and it doesn't have to be called some three letter fad. Thats the problem. The problem isn't what the desired outcomes are, it's how fucking dumb the framework is to get there and because of how dumb it is it never fully realizes the potential of the desired outcome. 

Respectfully, I also agree with the sentiment and outcome of what you posted. But, when in history of anywhere, especially in the US, have people consistently done the right thing? There are absolutely legitimate criticisms of defining DEI policies in our universities or corporations that are not skin-deep lip service, and how to evaluate its impact, but human beings collectively behaving on a societal scale do not autonomously do the right thing.

Edited by YChang
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Posted
How do you win over young men who hate women, brown people, non-Christian religious people, and homos, trannies and other queers and blame them for their lady exploit failures and other problems all while they say they don’t hate anyone, please do tell. 
 

The truth of the matter is that you have described a small, politically insignificant portion of the population.

There’s a much MUCH larger portion of the population, however, who are generally accepting in their everyday lives, but maybe lean a little right. They get defensive when told that they “hate women, brown people, etc” and end up siding with that ideology when forced to make a call at the ballot box.

The key is not to tell them that they need to change, most people don’t respond well to that. The key is to remove the issue as a political football altogether. Give everyone a new target for their anger (the Republican politicians fomenting this hatred) and acceptance quite likely will follow naturally once we are in the battle together.
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Posted
1 hour ago, Gourmand said:

oh really?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Asmongold/

i'm not gatekeeping anything,  from what I've seen of him he's a magat pos and he's extraordinarily terrible at analysis and has no informed political opinions. his rise to prominence is indicative of the problem of right-wing radicalization of young men via social media algos. the manosphere thing is a huge grift wherein ppl like Tim Pool and Andrew Tate and Asmongold can exploit the idea of male loneliness for themselves for click$ and engagement while also furthering the male loneliness epidemic as they blame all the problems young men face on ginned-up culture war nonsense, not addressing the systemic economic issues ushered in by unchecked neoliberal capitalism made worse by the political establishment's refusal to address them. 

The fact that you think the other 2 people you mentioned are nothing like asmongold let's me know you have no idea what you are talking about. If you would have said staysafe or some other red pilled moron then maybe I'd have given you some credit. 

Asmongold was famous before streamers were famous, he is in the same category as people like "reckful" and "sodapoppin". His channel is completely demonetized by his own choice and he doesn't allow donations and doesn't pander for views or likes.

And I was talking about you gatekeeping Linux, who is very fucking clearly not maga. 

Posted
7 minutes ago, immamac said:

the other 2 people you mentioned are nothing like asmongold

He has taken a very hard right turn and is now officially considered a politics streamer, which is no longer eligible to be monetized on Twitch.

Posted
9 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

He has taken a very hard right turn and is now officially considered a politics streamer, which is no longer eligible to be monetized on Twitch.

He stopped streaming on his main account before that to prove a point to twitch. He streams on there with his zachrawr account. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

He has taken a very hard right turn and is now officially considered a politics streamer, which is no longer eligible to be monetized on Twitch.

Holy shit really? You think he started streaming on zackrawr or whatever because of that? 

I'm just done talking a bunch of you about this. It's really just a bunch of nonsense. 

He speaks with the CEO of twitch regularly and told them he didn't want to be monetized and it was actually a problem for the platform because of how large his audience was with no ads being run (because he refused to run them).they actually just forced enabled monetization on his 2nd channel because of this in the last 6 months. 

Some of you really do live in a fantasy alternate reality where everyone you don't agree with is a demon or something. 

 

Posted
3 minutes ago, immamac said:

Holy shit really? You think he started streaming on zackrawr or whatever because of that? 

I'm just done talking a bunch of you about this. It's really just a bunch of nonsense. 

He speaks with the CEO of twitch regularly and told them he didn't want to be monetized and it was actually a problem for the platform because of how large his audience was with no ads being run (because he refused to run them).they actually just forced enabled monetization on his 2nd channel because of this in the last 6 months. 

Some of you really do live in a fantasy alternate reality where everyone you don't agree with is a demon or something. 

 

It’s kind of your point though. Asmondgold has always been more liberal but has taken a hard right turn because of everything. With that comes his base of millions taking the same right. Throw in other social media people of influence with young males having the right lean and it’s not a good recipe because news flash 18-25 year olds aren’t reading cnn.com or watching msnbc, and etc for news and information. They’ll take what they hear from those guys and run with it 

Posted

Okay none of that disproves Gourmand's point about the community he built by calling Palestinians "inferior" and supporting mass deportations. If you can understand how Joe Rogan fell off, there's nothing besides cognitive dissonance and copium stopping you from seeing Asmongold for what he's become.

Posted
2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Okay none of that disproves Gourmand's point about the community he built by calling Palestinians "inferior" and supporting mass deportations. If you can understand how Joe Rogan fell off, there's nothing besides cognitive dissonance and copium stopping you from seeing Asmongold for what he's become.

Joe Rogan hasn't fallen off at all what the fuck world do you live in? You may want to get your frame of reference checked. 

I don't agree with a lot of these guys on anything, but it's actually fucking crazy to think asmongold is on the take and responsible for pushing voters to the right. 

When you listen to Rogan talk about the Harris thing it starts to actually become abundantly clear what the disconnect is. This isn't defending Joe its looking at the situation for what it is instead of some idealistic bullshit that you apparently subscribe to. 

Warping reality to fit your narrative is just as disingenuous as right wing propoganda nonsense. 



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