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Pitman is just bad.
I get it there’s under 4 minutes and chances are slim, but you’re down 12 and go for 2?  So you force yourself into 2 TDs instead of a TD and FG.
dumbass

He is an idiot managing games. He made similar stupid calls agains lsu and byu. Has done it forever.

Today his worst was near end of the first half and as bad as UA was playing, they were hanging close. 4th and 6. A&M jumps offside on the punt. 4th and a long 1. Still punting. A few boos from the stands and Pittman puts the offense back in. He has a big strong running QB but they line up in shotgun and Aggies smother them for a big loss. A&M takes it in quickly for a TD to close the half then gets the ball back after the half. Kicks a Fg and closes the door.

Pittman did a great job rescuing their program from the disaster of Chad morris. But it’s time for him to retire.
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16 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:


He is an idiot managing games. He made similar stupid calls agains lsu and byu. Has done it forever.

Today his worst was near end of the first half and as bad as UA was playing, they were hanging close. 4th and 6. A&M jumps offside on the punt. 4th and a long 1. Still punting. A few boos from the stands and Pittman puts the offense back in. He has a big strong running QB but they line up in shotgun and Aggies smother them for a big loss. A&M takes it in quickly for a TD to close the half then gets the ball back after the half. Kicks a Fg and closes the door.

Pittman did a great job rescuing their program from the disaster of Chad morris. But it’s time for him to retire.

Pittman was a career position coach was had never even been a coordinator.  He was in no way qualified for the job.

That being said, he left them better than where he found them and should retire for someone actually qualified.

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4 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

Enos is as much a Dick head as he is a shitty OC. Basically saying he won’t run his 250lb QB on 4th and inches on a sneak, ever. And arguing about.

Maryland is 5-0 and having one of their best seasons in their history since Enos left as OC. 

Just a terrible hire by Arkansas. 

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On 9/30/2023 at 2:21 PM, Treefidy said:

Pitman is just bad.

I get it there’s under 4 minutes and chances are slim, but you’re down 12 and go for 2?  So you force yourself into 2 TDs instead of a TD and FG.

dumbass

 

On 9/30/2023 at 2:37 PM, ztejas said:

Lmfao they actually did that? That's incredible. 

 

On 9/30/2023 at 5:11 PM, Beau Vine said:

Not following.  Wouldn't they need two TDs even if they kicked the XP?

 

On 9/30/2023 at 11:23 PM, Texzilla58 said:


He is an idiot managing games. He made similar stupid calls agains lsu and byu. Has done it forever.

Today his worst was near end of the first half and as bad as UA was playing, they were hanging close. 4th and 6. A&M jumps offside on the punt. 4th and a long 1. Still punting. A few boos from the stands and Pittman puts the offense back in. He has a big strong running QB but they line up in shotgun and Aggies smother them for a big loss. A&M takes it in quickly for a TD to close the half then gets the ball back after the half. Kicks a Fg and closes the door.

Pittman did a great job rescuing their program from the disaster of Chad morris. But it’s time for him to retire.

Pittman made the correct decision here, however it's one of the few correct decisions that's still not well understood by most fans. 

There were down by 18 before the TD. They scored to make it 12. If they're going to score another TD and kick a field goal to tie they will need a 2 point conversion. Either now or after the second theoretical touchdown. By going for it on the first touchdown they turn an unknown (will the 2 point conversion be successful) into a known. Imagine that they kick the 1 point here, then get the ball back and drive down the field before facing fourth down at A&M's 20 yard line with 2 minutes left. They would kick a field goal to go down by 8. Then recover an onside kick and score the TD with almost no time remaining and lose on the failed 2 point conversion. All that work for nothing. 

By going for two on the first one they know they have to go for it on that hypothetical fourth down. They have given themselves the information that they need two more touchdowns and that a field goal does no good. This is the same situation as when people don't understand why going for two after the first touchdown is the right thing to do if you were trailing by 15. In that situation you learn whether you need one or two more possessions. It's critical information that smart coaches learn as soon as possible. Choosing to kick after the first one is done because of the instinct to delay losing as long as possible. But if you're playing to win, you go for two first. 

Edited by Huckleberry
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4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

 

 

 

Pittman made the correct decision here, however it's one of the few correct decisions that's still not well understood by most fans. 

There were down by 18 before the TD. They scored to make it 12. If they're going to score another TD and kick a field goal to tie they will need a 2 point conversion. Either now or after the second theoretical touchdown. By going for it on the first touchdown they turn an unknown (will the 2 point conversion be successful) into a known. Imagine that they kick the 1 point here, then get the ball back and drive down the field before facing fourth down at A&M's 20 yard line with 2 minutes left. They would kick a field goal to go down by 8. Then recover an onside kick and score the TD with almost no time remaining and lose on the failed 2 point conversion. All that work for nothing. 

By going for two on the first one they know they have to go for it on that hypothetical fourth down. They have given themselves the information that they need two more touchdowns and that a field goal does no good. This is the same situation as when people don't understand why going for two after the first touchdown is the right thing to do if you were trailing by 15. In that situation you learn whether you need one or two more possessions. It's critical information that smart coaches learn as soon as possible. Choosing to kick after the first one is done because of the instinct to delay losing as long as possible. But if you're playing to win, you go for two first. 

I disagree in college. It's typically easier to score on a defense the longer a game goes. And the 15 point analogy isn't the same thing because in that scenario you need 2 TDs either way so it doesn't really matter when you go for 2 (like you said you may as well go for it the first time around).

Say you go for 2 down 12 - miss - then your next drive you're facing 4th and 17 at their 20 yard line. Had you kicked the XP you could have kicked a FG and made it a one score game. Now - you are forced into trying to pick up the first and if you don't the game is over. Yes - you have to convert a 2 pt conversion either way but doing that on top of a fg is different than doing that on top of a TD. 

Either way a lot of this stuff is situational. It isn't always the right decision to do anything, necessarily, depending on how the game is going. Are you going to go for 2 either way even when it just took you 6 plays from the 12 yard line to score a TD? 

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10 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

 

 

 

Pittman made the correct decision here, however it's one of the few correct decisions that's still not well understood by most fans. 

There were down by 18 before the TD. They scored to make it 12. If they're going to score another TD and kick a field goal to tie they will need a 2 point conversion. Either now or after the second theoretical touchdown. By going for it on the first touchdown they turn an unknown (will the 2 point conversion be successful) into a known. Imagine that they kick the 1 point here, then get the ball back and drive down the field before facing fourth down at A&M's 20 yard line with 2 minutes left. They would kick a field goal to go down by 8. Then recover an onside kick and score the TD with almost no time remaining and lose on the failed 2 point conversion. All that work for nothing. 

By going for two on the first one they know they have to go for it on that hypothetical fourth down. They have given themselves the information that they need two more touchdowns and that a field goal does no good. This is the same situation as when people don't understand why going for two after the first touchdown is the right thing to do if you were trailing by 15. In that situation you learn whether you need one or two more possessions. It's critical information that smart coaches learn as soon as possible. Choosing to kick after the first one is done because of the instinct to delay losing as long as possible. But if you're playing to win, you go for two first. 

Why are you doing this?

You know exactly how this is going to go... People are going to disagree with you, and their analysis is always going to compare situations where they assume you miss the 2 try after the first TD, yet they assume they'll be successful after second TD.  And then they'll tell you that doesn't matter because you're not considering emotions, and then eventually someone will come by and point out that he was once a 2nd-team all-county guard and he played the game and you didn't, you pencil-necked geek.

 

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14 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Why are you doing this?

You know exactly how this is going to go... People are going to disagree with you, and their analysis is always going to compare situations where they assume you miss the 2 try after the first TD, yet they assume they'll be successful after second TD.  And then they'll tell you that doesn't matter because you're not considering emotions, and then eventually someone will come by and point out that he was once a 2nd-team all-county guard and he played the game and you didn't, you pencil-necked geek.

 

You're obviously correct, but I'm a glutton for punishment. @TXSooner518 also knows well how this argument goes.

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33 minutes ago, Fud said:

Maryland actually probably downgraded at OC

I definitely don't agree. 

Maryland is #20 in offensive efficiency (ESPN) and I think they finish top 25ish in total offense. Gattis was wrongly blamed for Miami's offensive struggles last year when they had an injured Van Dyke at QB and a major talent deficiency at OL/WR. 

The Maryland boards hated Enos so this comes as no surprise that Arkansas fans now dislike him. Throw in Gattis as a recruiter and I think its no contest that they upgraded. 

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11 minutes ago, Rickylovesweed said:

I definitely don't agree. 

Maryland is #20 in offensive efficiency (ESPN) and I think they finish top 25ish in total offense. Gattis was wrongly blamed for Miami's offensive struggles last year when they had an injured Van Dyke at QB and a major talent deficiency at OL/WR. 

The Maryland boards hated Enos so this comes as no surprise that Arkansas fans now dislike him. Throw in Gattis as a recruiter and I think it’s no contest that they upgraded. 

Maryland hasn’t played anyone with a pulse, and similar to your evidence that message boards hated Enos, Miami boards hated Gattis, as did Meat Chicken boards 

 

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1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Say you go for 2 down 12 - miss - then your next drive you're facing 4th and 17 at their 20 yard line. Had you kicked the XP you could have kicked a FG and made it a one score game.

Right here is where you make the logical error Beau Vine talked about. You are comparing missing the 2 pt if you try it first with making it if you save it. Saying that kicking the field goal makes it a one score game is assuming you succeed later. Kicking that field goal does not make it a one score game if the 2 pt conversion is unsuccessful. 

10 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

I think if you gotta have a two in the progression you save it for last. Kick the one and down 11 needing one TD is better than needing two down 12, when you haven’t moved the ball worth a shit this season.

Exact same logical error. 

8 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Down 12 the D also knows that you need 2 TDs. If we're talking about the coach getting "information".

Similar error. Assuming the 2 pt is always missed if tried first.

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12 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Right here is where you make the logical error Beau Vine talked about. You are comparing missing the 2 pt if you try it first with making it if you save it. Saying that kicking the field goal makes it a one score game is assuming you succeed later. Kicking that field goal does not make it a one score game if the 2 pt conversion is unsuccessful. 

Exact same logical error. 

Similar error. Assuming the 2 pt is always missed if tried first.

It’s not a logical error to want to keep the game alive longer, though. If you go on the first one, it’s do or die. A failure, and the game is over. A success, and there’s still a game.

If there’s still a game, your hypothetical 4th down at the A&M would depend on the yardage with two minutes left. Fourth and short, maybe you go for it to get the needed TD while close, knowing you’re burning time but only needing a field goal since you get the two points. Fourth and long, you probably kick the field goal, knowing you need a TD anyway and preserving time. 

Different coaches could easily make different decisions with reasonable justification. 

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4 minutes ago, Doc Daneeka said:

It’s not a logical error to want to keep the game alive longer, though. If you go on the first one, it’s do or die. A failure, and the game is over. A success, and there’s still a game.

Same error. You talk about missing after the first ending the game. What exactly do you think missing after the second does? Would you rather know you need more points with 4 minutes left or 4 seconds left? 

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2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Same error. You talk about missing after the first ending the game. What exactly do you think missing after the second does? Would you rather know you need more points with 4 minutes left or 4 seconds left? 

It’s not the “same error” because I don’t assume it fails. I acknowledge that it’s a possibility. 

Failing to get it at some point ends the game, but you’ve kept your team in the game until/if you fail on the second one. 

I’d rather not play out the clock knowing I can’t win any earlier than is necessary. 

Edited by Doc Daneeka
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1 hour ago, Fud said:

Maryland hasn’t played anyone with a pulse, and similar to your evidence that message boards hated Enos, Miami boards hated Gattis, as did Meat Chicken boards 

 

According to ESPN efficiency rankings: 

'23 Maryland #20 (They have played a soft schedule)

'22 Miami #90

'21 Michigan #8

'20 Michigan #29

It's still early to judge the '23 Maryland offense based on the schedule, but in 3 out of the last 4 years it looks like Gattis is producing pretty good offenses. Also, the Miami year was merely due to injury at QB and huge talent deficiency at WR/OL.

I don't think Gattis is a top 10 offensive coordinator by any means but he's definitely better than Enos....IMO. 

 

 

 

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I think Huck’s point misses the outcomes of opponent’s possessions. I have seen teams going for 2 in the first half as if they can project what the opponent’s scoring will be like. All the well-reasoned projections are off when the other team scores a field goal. 

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On 10/6/2023 at 4:45 PM, Doc Daneeka said:

It’s not the “same error” because I don’t assume it fails. I acknowledge that it’s a possibility. 

Failing to get it at some point ends the game, but you’ve kept your team in the game until/if you fail on the second one. 

I’d rather not play out the clock knowing I can’t win any earlier than is necessary. 

This trades actual win equity for emotions and feelings of "being in the game."  Coaches do this all the time to "keep the game alive" or delay the "play of the game" even when to their huge detriment. OU kicked a FG on 4th and 1 in the 2018 Rose Bowl down 3 in OT. It's VERY obvious that 2018 OU would MUCH rather the game come down to that offense gaining 1 yard and then converting 1st and goal to win the game vs needing the 2018 OU defense to stop UGA on a short field. Plus in the next OT, OU was going to go first, which is also a detriment. But they kicked, b/c going for it means THE GAME IS ON THE LINE RIGHT NOW, even though their win equity was DRASTICALLY higher to go. 

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