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Posted

Random thought... With the reg changes coming meaning this year's car will be very different to next year's (so less to learn from a competitor, relatively speaking), I think it'd be wildly entertaining to have drivers swap cars and do a few laps. I'm curious what the elite drivers (Lewis, Oscar, Fernando... George?) would do in that Red Bull and also what Max would do in a less pointy car. And then for real shits and giggles, stick them all in the Alpine.

Posted

Newey mentioned in his book that the estimated value of the advertising gained by Red Bull for simply being involved in F1 between 2000-2014 was 1.6 billion pounds so while they aren't a car company their has been economic value from sponsoring the team. 

I think the question is whether the son who owns 49% or the Yoovidhya family who owns the other 51% wishes to remaining in F1. 

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Posted
4 hours ago, kevwun said:

I wonder if this wasn't a move to keep Verstappen.  Jos doesn't like Horner and they both love Marko.

That was my first thought as well, and Martin thinks that's it, too.

Posted

Holy cow, I've been out of pocket today and just heard the news.

I'm both surprised, and unsurprised by it.  I guess I just didn't think it would happen quite yet, even if the writing seems to have been on the wall for a while.

It would be pretty crazy for RBR to ditch Horner, then still lose Max, after already losing Newey.  That's a lot of big blows in succession.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, dieucla98 said:

... I'm curious what the elite drivers (Lewis, Oscar, Fernando... George?)

LOL at least one of these doesn't belong in a sentence about elite drivers.

Edited by wood
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Posted
12 minutes ago, PGFrog said:

Newey mentioned in his book that the estimated value of the advertising gained by Red Bull for simply being involved in F1 between 2000-2014 was 1.6 billion pounds so while they aren't a car company their has been economic value from sponsoring the team. 

I think the question is whether the son who owns 49% or the Yoovidhya family who owns the other 51% wishes to remaining in F1. 

Aren't they Thai? I'm sure y'all can see where I'm going with this.

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Posted
1 minute ago, wood said:

LOL at least one of these doesn't belong in a sentence about elite drivers.

George has his moments where you can see it. Then he bins it on the final lap. I did put a question mark on his name, in my defense. 

Posted (edited)

Wonder whether Max (or his camp) let it be known to Red Bull that he was opting out of his contract after this year. Losing Max and Adrian Newey, the best driver on the grid and the aero whisperer whose chassis have won 12 WCC and 14 WDC, in consecutive years convinced the Thai shareholder the team needed a reset. If they’re stuck with a tractor no one but Max can drive, RB might as well start the reboot now.

If it’s a roll of the dice to get Max to stay…. Bold strategy, Cotton. 

From the POV of a driver…. 2026 is a new reg year. Would it be better to stick a year and see who nails the regs? Especially if you’re Max who would be wanted at every team? George must have been ecstatic at getting moved up to Merc in 2022: “I’m in a car that has won seven consecutive WCCs!” Only they messed up the regs. What if Max jumps to Merc only for Newey to do an Adrain Newey and design AM a title car. Seems better for Max to jump after 26, but WDIK.

Edited by Dutch
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Posted (edited)

I would put George and LeClerc at about the same level.  They are both capable of good performances particularly in qualifying, but also like to shit the bed at less than ideal moments.

Edited by kevwun
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Posted
Just now, dieucla98 said:

George has his moments where you can see it. Then he bins it on the final lap. I did put a question mark on his name, in my defense. 

My view of George is that he's quick, and that's about it. His racecraft is a running joke, even in the F1 movie. You gotta be quick, but ya gotta be a lot more than that. He's not even top 6 in the current field imho. 

Posted

You're basically guessing when it comes to picking who will figure out the new regs first.  History says 1 team is going to do it significantly better than the rest of the field and everyone else will be playing catch up for at least a year or 2.  A 1 year deal is probably Max's best option if he doesn't want to gamble on ending up in a bad car.

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Posted
Just now, kevwun said:

You're basically guessing when it comes to picking who will figure out the new regs first.  History says 1 team is going to do it significantly better than the rest of the field and everyone else will be playing catch up for at least a year or 2.  A 1 year deal is probably Max's best option if he doesn't want to gamble on ending up in a bad car.

Yeah if I had to bet, he'll re-up with the Bulls for 1 year.

Posted (edited)

Look how bad Mercedes initially fucked up on the current regs.  They went from 7 in a row to having a car that almost rattled Hamilton's teeth out of his head when the rules changed.  They had to start over from scratch after their initial design was so bad.  Red Bull was historically dominant just 2 years ago and now they have the one of the slowest cars in the field.  The same thing is probably going to happen to McLaren when other teams start hiring talent away from them.  There's no safe way to pick ahead of the changes.  Either you pick a good team and commit for the long haul or you wait a year and go where they have it figured out.

Edited by kevwun
Posted
1 hour ago, wood said:

Aren't they Thai? I'm sure y'all can see where I'm going with this.

Yes,  I think I read the are worth between $35-40 billion so the side venture of a F-1 racing team is pretty much a toy and more practical  than say, buying high school offensive tackles.  

Posted
3 hours ago, morehornsepower said:

- Red Bull is not a car manufacturer (I know, shocking)...if they become a back marker, I wouldn't be surprised to see them just pull out of F1 completely.

Have been discussing this w/ my nephew today.  One one hand, F1 has got to be their biggest marketing investment.  On the other, if they can't figure out how to fight for constructor titles, how long does Red Bull support a weak effort?  

Posted
3 hours ago, morehornsepower said:

Red Bull is not a car manufacturer (I know, shocking)...if they become a back marker, I wouldn't be surprised to see them just pull out of F1 completely.

I would be very surprised. Energy drinks are basically all marketing and F1 provides a shitload of marketing value for them. On top of that, RBR makes a ton of money thanks to the budget cap. They would probably spend close to 9 figures on marketing in F1 annually if they didn’t own a team. Instead, they get even more marketing value from it and make money on the team thanks to the budget cap. 
 

The only thing I could see them doing is selling VCARB and ditching their powertrains department and being a customer team, because the powertrains are a huge money pit and they don’t get much additional marketing gain from VCARB. But I would be shocked if they got rid of RBR. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, PGFrog said:

Yes,  I think I read the are worth between $35-40 billion so the side venture of a F-1 racing team is pretty much a toy and more practical  than say, buying high school offensive tackles.  

Yeah they're def loaded af. What I was getting at there was that Albon is also Thai, so they might see considerable marketing value in reacquiring him and marketing accordingly. But maybe not, as that market is probably not a huge concern for them.

Posted
9 hours ago, faps said:

If Red Bull was running Lawson and Yuki from the start this season they'd probably be last in the constructors, or at least fighting with Alpine for last place. That is Horner's fault.

Man, I really have a tough time putting blame on Horner for the current car being so shitty that only a fucking wizard can make it competitive. Honest question: how much of the engineering side is a team principle overseeing/directing? Though, obviously, someone's head has to roll.

But, yeah, the constant drama around the second seat has to fall on him. Their driver development used to be the envy of the grid. 6(?) of the current drivers on the grid came up through VCarb/Alpha Tauri. And now they're resigned to just let Yuki drive around the track with the rear markers for shits and giggles. Horner has either been too ruthless/impatient (Albon/Gasly), or, ironically, too sentimental (giving Danny what's supposed to be a development seat when they could have instead used it to  properly assess Lawson).

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