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Posted (edited)

Little has changed with the course layout since 2019 for Bethpage:

The Black Course has undergone several renovations over the years, the most significant of which was completed by the so-called “Open Doctor,” Rees Jones, ahead of the ’02 U.S. Open. The work ahead of 2025 has been more modest: A new set of fairway bunkers on the 13th hole is one of several traps sporting new features, while the fairways are mown wider than most locals can remember, with a new addition — a first cut — surviving into the summer.

“The Black,” a 7,436-yard, par-70 bludgeoning that elicits many vertical walks and the distinct feeling of a kick in the shins.

 

Below videos are from 2019...

 

 

Edited by LTtxfan
Posted

Ryder Cup Standings as FedEx Cup playoffs begin

The American side of things appears to be a bit more complicated. That is partly because some household names have struggled this season, while others have surprisingly excelled. That will make it increasingly difficult for Bradley to make his selections.

Meanwhile, things are a bit more cut and dry on the European side. Donald should have a much easier time making his selections.

So, let’s break it down for each team.

Team USA Rankings

As it stands, Scottie Scheffler has already locked up his Ryder Cup spot. He is followed by two-time major champion Xander Schauffele (13,383 points), reigning U.S. Open champion JJ Spaun (12,478 points), Russell Henley (11,623 points), Bryson DeChambeau (10,774 points), and Harris English (10,385 points).

English’s consistent play has bumped him up a few spots over the last two months. He jumped past stalwarts Justin Thomas and Collin Morikawa.

The next six that technically rank high enough for consideration are Thomas (10,208 points), Morikawa (9,743 points), Ben Griffin (8,803 points), captain Keegan Bradley (8,038 points), Maverick McNealy (7,414 points), and Brian Harman (7,007 points).

But just because those players rank 7-12 does not mean captain Keegan will pick them. Granted, Bradley appears on the precipice of history in becoming the first playing captain since Arnold Palmer in 1963. But that still leaves five spots to fill.

Andrew Novak, Patrick Cantlay, newly minted winner Cameron Young, Sam Burns, Wyndham Clark, Lucas Glover, Daniel Berger, and Chris Gotterup round out the top 20. Of those, Cantlay, Burns, and Clark were members of the 2023 Ryder Cup squad.

Cantlay may not be popular, but he has proven to have the gumption for this type of competition. He has a career Ryder Cup record of 5-2-1 for 5.5 points won for the Americans. Burns and Clark have not had nearly that level of success and appear unlikely to be chosen this time around.

Novak is an interesting case, because even though he is not well-known, he is having a breakout year. He has one win, one runner up, four top 10s, and nine top 25s this season. It would be surprising to see Berger or Gotterup chosen. You cannot count out Glover, since he’s part of that elder club on the PGA Tour alongside captain Keegan.

But we also cannot overlook Jordan Spieth. He is only ranked 27th with 3,603 points. But his Ryder Cup experience (8-7-3, 9.5 points won), and history in major championships cannot be discounted.

Thomas’ resurgence, Morikawa’s experience in big moments, and Griffin’s stellar play this year seem to make them locks. With Bradley probably choosing to play, that leaves two spots.

Team Europe Rankings

As I mentioned, the European side of things seem to be more clear.

Rory McIlroy has already claimed his spot. He is followed by Robert MacIntyre, Tommy Fleetwood, Tyrrell Hatton, Shane Lowry, and Sepp Straka. All six appear destined for Bethpage Black.

The next six are Rasmus Hojgaard, Justin Rose, Ludvig Aberg, Viktor Hovland, Matt Wallace, and Matt Fitzpatrick.

Rose has proven that he is made for the Ryder Cup. Aberg was stellar in 2023 and appears to be a lock, as does Hovland. Fitzpatrick, the former U.S. Open winner, is also highly likely to make the team.

Jon Rahm is No. 21 in the rankings. But we all know the Spaniard will be playing in New York. The question is, who will be Donald’s final selection?

That is probably between Hojgaard, Wallace, Thomas Detry, and Aaron Rai.

 

Posted

Discussion on whether Bethpage Black is a good venue for the match play format of Ryder Cup...

 

I wonder if Ryder Cup officials might set up Bethpage easier than normal to encourage more birdies???

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

The home team decides the course set up. 

Yeah knew wider fairways for this was US Teams decision -- just was wondering if they also get to determine pin positions for each session??

 

Edited by LTtxfan
Posted
20 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Yeah knew wider fairways for this was US Teams decision -- just was wondering if they also get to determine pin positions for each session??

 

Yes

Posted (edited)

Found 2 old articles discussing Ryder Cup course set up... interesting stuff

This ingenious trick helped Europe win a Ryder Cup—could it work again?

By Luke Kerr-Dineen  September 25, 2023

One of the glories about the Ryder Cup is that the host teams doesn't have to worry about being good hosts. In the weeks, months, and years heading into the competition, the home team has the ability to tailor the course in a variety of specific ways that can intentionally help their team—and hurt their guests.

It makes home-field advantage a very real thing at Ryder Cups—potentially too real, depending on who you ask.

It's a dark art the European team in particular has perfected due to the use of data and advanced analytics in its planning process. It's something I dive into in a little more detail in the video below, but in the course of putting it together, I came across an example from the last time Europe hosted the Ryder Cup, in 2018.

That year, the stats nerds within the European team found that when a number of key players on the U.S. side—Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson, Dustin Johnson, and Patrick Reed, among them—missed the fairway, they missed by an average of about 30 feet.

Their goal became to maximize these errors, in two ways.

The first was growing out the rough, which was obvious to all the moment they arrived at Le Golf National outside Paris.

But the second was more subtle: It was to push the rope line for the gallery back, further away from the fairway. That way, when players missed the fairway, their ball wouldn't find a spot that likely was trampled down by the crowd. Rather it would be buried in deep rough—and deep trouble.

Screenshot_2025-08-05-18-01-13_kindlephoto-7501930.png.71b8a7e62872ab0ce7e324013ce5a46e.png

The plan worked marvelously. Well, for Europe. Tiger and Reed, who was the hero for the U.S. in the previous Ryder Cup, in particular struggled, as Europe cruised to an against-the-odds victory.

Will it happen again at this Ryder Cup? The rough is certainly up again according to early reports. I doubt we’ll get a carbon copy of this strategy, personally, because it was so dependent on specific U.S. players at the time (who won’t be in Rome). We’ll do doubt see different strategies to counteract U.S. team members this time. Whether it’ll work as well remains to be seen.

Once again, you can check out the full video right here:

 

 

--------------------------------------------

And this second article is so long, just gonna put link here for those interested...

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/ryder-cup-homefield-advantage-2023-united-states-europe-rome 

 

Edited by LTtxfan
Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Yeah knew wider fairways for this was US Teams decision -- just was wondering if they also get to determine pin positions for each session??

 

28 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

Yes

 

Actually the answer is...  NO

Found this in old article above:

It is recognised that the home side has the opportunity to influence and direct the setup and preparation of the course for the Ryder Cup. It is hereby agreed that any such influence, direction and/or preparation will be limited to course architecture/course design, fairway widths, rough heights, green speed and firmness, and will conclude the Sunday prior to the matches (Sunday, September 24th 2023).

From Monday, September 25th 2023 all daily decisions related to course preparation/setup including frequency and height of mowing tees, fairways and greens, determining if the greens should be rolled to maintain speed, firmness and smoothness, and selecting tees and pin positions, will be the responsibility of the Match Committee alone. The Match Committee is made up of one representative from both Ryder Cup Europe and the PGA of America. This is done to maintain the integrity of the Ryder Cup.

 

Edited by LTtxfan
  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

 Today ⬆

 

IMG_20250805_201635.jpg.1e154ceaff43d3e719092dac6af86bd8.jpg

Quote

It's always slightly disappointing, after a sexy headline, to lead with disclaimers, but before we get into the good (bad?) stuff, it does feel like these three caveats are necessary:

1. Keegan Bradley arguably deserves to make the Ryder Cup team on the strength of his performance the past two years. It's not clear-cut—that's the problem, as we'll see in a moment—but he's a top-10 player in the world, he recently won a tournament, and if I were making the call, he'd be on the team. (You'll be shocked to know that they have not consulted me.)

2. A lot of this is not his fault. Some may be slightly his fault, but a lot comes down to circumstances beyond his control.

3. Any discourse about the Ryder Cup needs to acknowledge that playing in front of tens of thousands of rabid home fans is by far the most critical factor in determining a winner, as shown by the five consecutive blowouts leading into Bethpage … a number that would be eight if not for a fluky day in Medinah 13 years ago. The next great Ryder Cup story will be the next time a visiting team wins—that's how difficult this is. So yes, the U.S. could win easily despite the potential hazards.

And now that our throats are cleared, it's time to discuss the massive iceberg looming in the distance, and to ask why the U.S. seems to be firing all the engines, hellbent on a collision.

It starts with Bradley's dilemma: Do I pick myself, or not? He's currently 10th in the Ryder Cup points standings, which is just about the worst place he could be. If he were in the top six, he'd be an automatic pick when the cutoff happens in two weeks after the BMW Championship, and it wouldn't be a topic of discussion. If he were, say, 15th, he'd be too far down the list, and picking himself would look suspicious and/or corrupt. Those are the polarities in which the decision becomes very easy. But the fact that he's in the shadow zone, where you can formulate a really good argument for him and a pretty decent one against him, too—he’s currently 14th in DataGolf’s Ryder Cup U.S. player pool, for instance—means that if he does choose himself, he's going to face more than a few raised eyebrows. It's going to be controversial, because that means there will be someone he leaves behind, like Cameron Young or Chris Gotterup or Sam Burns or Patrick Cantlay, who looks like an attractive prospect. And again, that's even if he's justified in picking himself.

It's not fair, but it's not wrong: If somebody else picked him to be on the team, it would be fine. If he picks himself, as he appears poised to do, it's strange.

Why? Well, in part because he said very early in his captaincy that he wouldn't play unless he finished in the top six automatic qualifying spots. That represents a good life lesson that a lot of figures in golf could stand to learn: Don't say things you may have to go back on in the future. When Bradley first got the call for the Ryder Cup, they told him they wanted him to be the first playing captain since Arnold Palmer in 1963, so there was really no need to establish the top-six criteria. But now if he does pick himself, he'll absolutely have those words thrown in his face. In fact, it already happened—right after he won the Travelers Championship in June, he had to acknowledge the old quote and say, "listen, this changes the story a little bit."

Again, he's not wrong to consider picking himself, but now he's got to go against an initial promise. Let's not forget why that promise was made, either; he had an intuitive understanding that it wouldn't look great and could create a narrative that would hurt the team. But that was a year ago, outside the fog of war, before he was faced with the tantalizing prospect of getting to play.

Beyond Bradley's own words, though, there's the simple truth of how narratives grow in the weeks leading up to the Ryder Cup. I was there in 2016 in Hazeltine when Danny Willett's brother wrote a harmless blog post about Americans, and somehow it ended up ruining his brother's entire Ryder Cup. That was incredibly stupid, but in some ways the week of the Ryder Cup is incredibly stupid—it's long, access to players is bad, there's very little to talk about, and if there's any red meat, it will be chewed to the gristle.

So let's consider how this could play out if Bradley picks himself. First, he's going to face questions about it for a month—Do you think Cameron Young would have been a better course fit? Hasn't Patrick Cantlay proved he's a winner at these events? Do you think you'll miss Sam Burns' putting?—and while I'm sure he'll have a rote answer prepared, the pressure will build and build. Not just on him, either; the U.S. team will feel responsible for justifying his captaincy, and his playing partners in any pairs session will have an extra burden on their shoulders.

image.jpeg.775ae76fa40171a3c0f56c0375dc9421.jpeg

If leaves off Cameron Young, Sam Burns or Patrick Cantlay in favor of himself for the 2025 U.S. Ryder Cup team, he'll repeatedly face tough questions about the decision.

Now imagine he goes out on Friday morning and loses. What then? The questions would redouble in their intensity, Bradley would feel terrible—the man does not like losing in the first place—and the pressure would grow and continue spreading to the entire team.

There's a word for this that athletes and coaches love to deploy: "Distraction." And the cardinal rule of leading a team is that you do everything in your power to avoid distractions. So why is the U.S. courting them?

And don't forget the very basic fact that while he's answering questions about his decision and trying to win his matches, he also has to captain the damn team. A couple weeks ago, Luke Donald accepted an addendum that allowed Bradley to deputize one of his vice captains to act as the man in charge when he's on the course. That must have been the easiest "yes" in the history of professional sports. Why wouldn't you agree to a tweak that muddles the leadership structure of your opponent and throws a confusing wrench into their chain of command? Who calls the shots when there's a lineup adjustment needed and Bradley is on the 14th hole?

This violates every tenet of Leadership 101. There's an old quote attributed to John Madden that if you have two quarterbacks on a team, you actually have none, and it's hard not to think that if you have two Ryder Cup captains, you don't have any. Will the players even know who's really in charge?

What's maddening about this is how foreseeable it was. Here was me in July 2024 after Bradley was announced:

I may have missed the announcement, but last I heard, he's not retiring from competitive golf. Again, he's 38. What if he makes the team? What if, like last time, he has a solid argument for making the team as a captain's pick, and finds himself having to make a tough call … on himself? Worse, how is he going to have the time to take on the duties of the modern captaincy, which is essentially like being a two-year CEO of a major corporation, when he's playing a full schedule?

 

I don't deserve any credit for that—it was an obvious pitfall, which is why it felt even back then that the U.S. team was potentially putting Bradley in an impossible spot. The way it played out might be an example of Murphy's Law … of course he's right in that gray area, inviting a big honking distraction right into his team room.

There are still a few ways out of this mess. The easiest solution is for him to go win in Memphis and put the discussion to bed. Failing that, he could officially remove himself from playing consideration and devote all his energies to the captaincy. Third, he could forgo the captaincy entirely and put his fate as a player in the hands of the new captain.

If I were his advisor, I'd push hard for option three. It's a win-win at this point, especially because he probably has the leverage to do a wink-wink deal with the new captain to ensure that yes, he will make the team. He'd get plaudits for sacrificing his leadership position for the greater good, he'd get to fulfill a dream 11 years in the making to play on another Ryder Cup team, and he'd be a top choice for the captaincy whenever he wanted it in the future. Why wouldn't you jump at that opportunity?

Instead, Team USA seems hellbent on flirting with the disaster scenario: Keegan picks himself, the story blows up into a massive distraction for the entire team, an absurd amount of pressure is heaped on his shoulders to win his matches, the chain of command is in tatters, he loses, the story gets worse, communication blows up, etc. etc. And suddenly the rare home defeat becomes a more real prospect.

Last year, a prominent member of the European Ryder Cup infrastructure saw me at a tournament and told me that he really hoped Bradley would be a playing captain. He was laughing, but he was entirely serious—please let this guy take on both jobs. He could see the nightmare unfolding, and it's worth mentioning, too, that this is all happening in the context of Europe returning a successful captain with (likely) 11 players who won in Rome. To put it mildly, this is not the year to be screwing around.

Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe the nightmare won't come to pass. Maybe it'll be fine. Maybe the Americans will ride the wave of home support to yet another blowout victory, and Bradley can call out the haters, Shipnuck-style, in the victorious press conference. Still, the question I can't get over is, why would you risk it when you don't have to? There's still time to steer around the iceberg, but it would require an adult decision to cast ego aside and admit you might have been wrong in the first place.

 

Edited by LTtxfan
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

I think he’ll pick himself regardless of his results the next few weeks but since his win he has a 40th, T30 and MC. 

Yeah video above, guy makes a good case for Keegan to be the "Captain only" and  not play in the Ryder Cup unless he manages to play really well in the playoffs. 

I would rather Keegan not play in the Ryder Cup...

 

 

Edited by LTtxfan

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