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Anton Chigurh

Surly Jazz Thread

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I was asked to start a jazz thread after saying I have been collecting a lot of jazz recently in the vinyl thread. Here is a jazz thread.

 

I’m far from an expert, but I’ll start with a few of the essentials. The entire albums are good but for listening purposes, individual tracks are easier. Some if not all of these are way obvious, but they’re popular for a reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Jazz is my shit ever since I took an appreciation class at UT (where I scored the only 100 I ever got on a paper, because jazz genius).

 

I JUST got back from NYC, visited the Bronx while I was there and ran into these dudes, so this thread hits close to home.

 

Side note, standing at Miles Davis's grave, from that spot you can see the graves of Duke Ellington, Max Roach, Jackie McLean, Lionel Hampton, and Illinois Jacquet. It's like the jazz nexus of the universe!99aee3e2896f66daef5fe2d43006187b.jpgc769dcfcf166573920b6bb927d5a9bb2.jpg7e1105926f05e1e02c40fe609a77f233.jpge5c36e55ac9f30b995430cf2b714680f.jpgc9500467f09291fc8a80bfd9bdc84554.jpg1657e5758b503c7badbfcc297d8c911c.jpg

 

 

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Good topic.  I know a bit about jazz, and played it in HS, but I'd like to learn a lot more.  I have a good collection of the classics, mostly 50s/60s bop, etc. (Davis, Coltrane and the like), but certain styles appeal to me more.

In particular, if anyone could recommend great options (both the recording and the performance) for these I'd appreciate it:

-- piano trio (piano, upright bass & drums)

-- big band (real firepower like Maynard Ferguson but without the histrionics)

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Good topic.  I know a bit about jazz, and played it in HS, but I'd like to learn a lot more.  I have a good collection of the classics, mostly 50s/60s bop, etc. (Davis, Coltrane and the like), but certain styles appeal to me more.
In particular, if anyone could recommend great options (both the recording and the performance) for these I'd appreciate it:
-- piano trio (piano, upright bass & drums)
-- big band (real firepower like Maynard Ferguson but without the histrionics)


Bill Evans should fit the piano trio bill.

Try Waltz for Debby and Sunday at the Village Vanguard.

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I'm surprised Sir Duke and Irving Berlin have such humble headstones.  Of course, their recorded legacy is most important.  I see we've started at post-war bop.  

Let's go back a little further:

I love St. James Infirmary.  I've heard it done a thousand different ways and I never get tired of it.  

 

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And this guy has a special place for me.  The first foreigner to influence a truly American form:

 

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The Benny Goodman Sextet stuff is just the best.

I saw Lionel Hampton (and Ruth Brown) at an ACL taping back in the 90s.  What a show.  It helped that I went with a girl I'd been chasing for a while.  Icing on the cake.  

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How elitist are we going to be? I was raised on Ellington, Armstrong and the Dukes of Dixieland but I don't want to offend by posting something that isn't "real" jazz.

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Not a jazz expert, but I enjoy it. With your background, jimmyjazz, I'm sure you're aware of these.

Always hear great things about Nat King Cole Trio. This one has guitar, but I'm sure you can find piano/bass/drum songs.

 

I know you said stuff w/out Maynard. Not sure if Maynard is on this, but Stan Kenton def brings the wall of sound.

 

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Yeah, I have nothing against Maynard Ferguson the player, it's just that his own band seemed to turn into sort of a circus act, especially after "Rocky".

I don't think he was with Kenton in the 1960's or beyond, anyway.  But yes, that's the kind of big band I really like.  Thanks.  Not sure that's the best performance -- there are some clear intonation issues -- but for sure that's a style I really like.

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A little anecdote:  I took my wife and 2 younger kids to New Orleans a couple of years ago.  We stayed at the Royal Sonestra in the French Quarter, and when we were checking in I heard some pretty terrific jazz trumpet wafting out of the lobby bar.  My son is a trumpet player, in the 8th grade at the time, and I asked if he wanted to go listen.  He did, so we got the gals settled in our room and went back down for jazz and drinks (a scotch for me, and a virgin Jack & Coke for my son . . . so Coke).

This trio was smokin' hot.  I couldn't believe how good a hotel bar band could sound at 3 PM.  I went up during a break and spoke with the bandleader, whose name was Ashlin Parker.  He was super cool, happy to talk to my son about trumpet studies, etc.  It was just a great experience.

So later on I googled "Ashlin Parker", and you know, he's just a fucking Grammy Award winning trumpet player who has worked with tons of greats including stiffs with names like "Marsalis" and "Blanchard", and oh yeah, happens to lead the jazz trumpet studio at University of New Orleans (and has a masters degree from that school to boot).  The dude couldn't have been 35 years old.  Just fucking brilliant.

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59 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

A little anecdote:  I took my wife and 2 younger kids to New Orleans a couple of years ago.  We stayed at the Royal Sonestra in the French Quarter, and when we were checking in I heard some pretty terrific jazz trumpet wafting out of the lobby bar.  My son is a trumpet player, in the 8th grade at the time, and I asked if he wanted to go listen.  He did, so we got the gals settled in our room and went back down for jazz and drinks (a scotch for me, and a virgin Jack & Coke for my son . . . so Coke).

This trio was smokin' hot.  I couldn't believe how good a hotel bar band could sound at 3 PM.  I went up during a break and spoke with the bandleader, whose name was Ashlin Parker.  He was super cool, happy to talk to my son about trumpet studies, etc.  It was just a great experience.

So later on I googled "Ashlin Parker", and you know, he's just a fucking Grammy Award winning trumpet player who has worked with tons of greats including stiffs with names like "Marsalis" and "Blanchard", and oh yeah, happens to lead the jazz trumpet studio at University of New Orleans (and has a masters degree from that school to boot).  The dude couldn't have been 35 years old.  Just fucking brilliant.

I took a leak by Jimmy Smith on break at the Mercury when he played with some guitarist who blew off two really hot UT chicks to talk to me about guitar technique.  I went home and looked him up and it was Phil Upchurch.  What a show.

 

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I took a leak by Jimmy Smith on break at the Mercury when he played with some guitarist who blew off two really hot UT chicks to talk to me about guitar technique.  I went home and looked him up and it was Phil Upchurch.  What a show.

 

 

Hell yes, Chicken Shack is greatness. Originally had Kenny Burrell on the geetar.

 

Midnight Special also jams, and was done in the same studio session (and Jimmy is wearing the same shirt on both album covers).

 

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I'm into all things Blue Note right now. Wayne Shorter, Donald Byrd, Grant Green, Dexter Gordon, Jimmy Griffith, and Lee Morgan. The Tone Poet series this year has been really great. 

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Posted (edited)

Wow, I've never heard that Jimmy Smith live track -- that's fantastic.  Thanks.

Guitarist is definitely smokin'.

Edited by jimmyjazz

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51 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

 

Hell yes, Chicken Shack is greatness. Originally had Kenny Burrell on the geetar.

 

Midnight Special also jams, and was done in the same studio session (and Jimmy is wearing the same shirt on both album covers).

 

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Was just coming to post some Kenny Burrell. 

Love me some Freddie Hubbard.

 

And hey why not, jimmyjazz being a drum corps guy in the 80's, you probably heard this a time or two, right?

(btw, saw the Cavvies last night in Mesquite, liked their show a lot, just curious, a lot of their shows seem to feature "manhood" or "brotherhood", intentional or just coincidence?)

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Was just coming to post some Kenny Burrell. 




Yes! I just got an original pressing of that record. It’s got a lot of groove to it.

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Cool.  I heard his version of Little Drummer Boy years ago and it just hooked me, I love that style.  Have this CD, I put on sometimes on a quiet Sunday morning sitting on the back porch, nice way to start the day.

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I am curious as to what JimmyJazz thinks of Rudy Van Gelder.

He recorded/engineered/mastered/cut just about everything he was involved with, and the old original Blue Note/Prestige/Impulse stuff is very sought after because of that “RVG sound”, but it seems like other engineers think he’s pretty overrated.

He’s influential, if nothing else.

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Yes! I just got an original pressing of that record. It’s got a lot of groove to it.

Sure does. Just ask SRV.

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34 minutes ago, UTCzech III said:

(btw, saw the Cavvies last night in Mesquite, liked their show a lot, just curious, a lot of their shows seem to feature "manhood" or "brotherhood", intentional or just coincidence?)

Not coincidence, but probably not entirely intentional, either.  Just deeply ingrained.  I'm just glad the horn line is on a serious push back to the top of the heap.  They sound fantastic this year, and I think the book is better than ever.  They aren't doing the things that will max out GE or visuals, but I don't care, they do what they do the way that they always do it.

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18 minutes ago, Anton Chigurh said:

I am curious as to what JimmyJazz thinks of Rudy Van Gelder.

He recorded/engineered/mastered/cut just about everything he was involved with, and the old original Blue Note/Prestige/Impulse stuff is very sought after because of that “RVG sound”, but it seems like other engineers think he’s pretty overrated.

He’s influential, if nothing else.

I'm not really qualified to comment -- he mostly recorded out of his house in NJ and kept his "secrets" . . . secret.  The records sound great for the most part.  I certainly wouldn't call him overrated.

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I'm not really qualified to comment -- he mostly recorded out of his house in NJ and kept his "secrets" . . . secret.  The records sound great for the most part.  I certainly wouldn't call him overrated.


Cool. I think a lot of people forget that he was doing this stuff in the 50s and that maybe skews the viewpoint somewhat (from the engineer side).

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Posted (edited)

I'm pretty sure everything was tracked to stereo or even mono, because to my knowledge The Beatles and Geoff Emerick were trailblazers of sorts by going to 3 tracks.  My guess is that the RVG recordings sound great for very simple reasons:  the artists were terrific, they were prepared, RVG knew the room and his equipment, and he was able to mix on the fly.

Edited by jimmyjazz

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I'm pretty sure everything was tracked to stereo or even mono, because to my knowledge The Beatles and Geoff Emerick were trailblazers of sorts by going to 3 tracks.  My guess is that the RVG recordings sound great for very simple reasons:  the artists were terrific, they were prepared, RVG knew the room and his equipment, and he was able to mix on the fly.


And how many recording engineers cut their own stampers back then? Can’t think it was very many. RVG was like his own Robert Ludwig.

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Wynton Marsalis is the artistic director of The Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra in NYC.  Saw them in April for a show celebrating the 80th birthdays of McCoy Tyner and Charles McPherson.  Tyner played piano for Coltrane for some time and was on A Love Supreme.  McPherson is a bop-era alto sax player.  Both were slated to play, but Tyner was a late scratch because he suffered a stroke 2 weeks before the performance.  McPherson was outstanding.

I've seen Steve Smith a couple of times in NYC.  Once with his band Vital Information and another time with his Groove Blue Organ Trio.  Smith (Journey's drummer from 1977-1986 and occasionally on tour) is a world renowned Jazz drummer.  He'll be in Austin in September at Bates for "World Music Unleashed."  In the late 80s and 90s, Smith played with Steps Ahead, a jazz fusion outfit with a superstar lineup.

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I'm pretty sure everything was tracked to stereo or even mono, because to my knowledge The Beatles and Geoff Emerick were trailblazers of sorts by going to 3 tracks.  My guess is that the RVG recordings sound great for very simple reasons:  the artists were terrific, they were prepared, RVG knew the room and his equipment, and he was able to mix on the fly.

Aside: Maybe I’m confused in the engineer talk, but I’m pretty sure all the Beatles stuff until after Sgt. Pepper was four track.

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You might be right -- I believe a lot of the MIXES were left/center/right though.  (No partial panning.)

Or I could be completely off base.

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I know some are purists and only mess with the classic stuff.   There are a group of young guys that are "bringing back" jazz for me.   Robert Glasper is one.  

 

 

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23 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

You might be right -- I believe a lot of the MIXES were left/center/right though.  (No partial panning.)

Or I could be completely off base.

I think this is correct.  Is this why you're saying "three track"?  I'm woefully ignorant of the engineering.  Just plug me in so I can play!

 

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1 minute ago, Chad Fuck said:

I think this is correct.  Is this why you're saying "three track"?  I'm woefully ignorant of the engineering.  Just plug me in so I can play!

 

No, I was saying "3-track" because I was apparently remembering wrong.  It appears that they did 2 albums live to 2-track, and then started overdubbing parts when they got to the 3rd album because a 4-track machine became available.  Somehow I managed to turn "3 mix points (L/C/R)" into "3-track".  And, I'm probably wrong on the 3 mix points.  All of this is just anecdotal things I've heard -- I'm not a big Beatles fan so it's not high on my radar.

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On 8/18/2019 at 4:19 PM, Handcruser said:

Jim Cullum died.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

One of the great American Jazz musicians. I used to watch him play small venues all around San Antonio. He played six nights a week in venues with very small crowds. He obviously played for the love of the music. He deserves more than a quick post on Surly. 

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He’s a legend for sure. I use to date his daughter and spent allot of time around him. Went to the Landing many many times and also went to NY when he played a Turk Murphy tribute at Carnegie Hall.

He was for a sure a monster in the jazz community, and not just in SA. He was known all over the world.

Great guy too. His daughter (step-daughter actually, but there was no difference to him or her) is heartbroken.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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On 7/23/2019 at 9:33 AM, jimmyjazz said:

Good topic.  I know a bit about jazz, and played it in HS, but I'd like to learn a lot more.  I have a good collection of the classics, mostly 50s/60s bop, etc. (Davis, Coltrane and the like), but certain styles appeal to me more.

In particular, if anyone could recommend great options (both the recording and the performance) for these I'd appreciate it:

-- piano trio (piano, upright bass & drums)

-- big band (real firepower like Maynard Ferguson but without the histrionics)

How about Don Ellis?

 

Also, everyone should check out this kid:

 

 

And I might as well include my favorite jazz album:

 

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The soundtrack from the 1986 film "Trouble in Mind"  is pretty awesome.  All kinds of different sounds here. Give it a one time listen through. The film is underrated, too. 
 



 

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