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elfenix

Things not going well in Bolivia

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You just don’t understand how politics work in South America. Coups d’état are in our political DNA, just like “guns” is in your DNA. Not surprising that you don’t get it, considering that you are a rich white guy who’s never set foot in South America, enjoying your sheltered rich white life in the USA all the while bitching about the evil American empire. You’re funny. And sad. Nobody’s stopping you from selling all the shit you’ve accumulated over the years of upper middle class lifestyle and moving to Bolivia to join the resistance. Go ahead.

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never fucking mind not worth going down this rabbit hole of tortured electrons.

Edited by elfenix

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14 minutes ago, XYZ said:

You just don’t understand how politics work in South America. Coups d’état are in our political DNA, just like “guns” is in your DNA. Not surprising that you don’t get it, considering that you are a rich white guy who’s never set foot in South America, enjoying your sheltered rich white life in the USA all the while bitching about the evil American empire. You’re funny. And sad. Nobody’s stopping you from selling all the shit you’ve accumulated over the years of upper middle class lifestyle and moving to Bolivia to join the resistance. Go ahead.

So are we just straight up ignoring that the US, since the Fruit Companies, has flat out admitted to overthrowing leftist and installing right regimes in central and south America? Maybe it's in their DNA because it's in ours?

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Lib scientists don't want you to know this, but Hispanics actually have an extra chromosome which makes them susceptible to doing coups.

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1 hour ago, Fozzz said:

Lib scientists don't want you to know this, but Hispanics actually have an extra chromosome which makes them susceptible to doing coups.

Through humane vivisection we have determined that the Hispanoid types have a corruption bone in the ear canal. We must do what we can for these afflicted souls.

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And thousands of then got on Twitter to post in Spanish all at once?

 

lol imagine waking up in the morning to defend the honor of the intelligence community

 

Good little pet.

 

 

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Totally good democracy things happening in Bolivia.

@Brisketexan

Do you think you will ever learn a single lesson about supporting our deep state's constant effort to destroy South and Central America via coups?

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Depends.  Will you ever learn about the perils of populist leftists and promises of workers paradises?  No?  Well then, I guess we're both going to have to learn to live with disappointment.

Of course, I'll ignore your repetitive straw man of attributing to me some love of "South American coups."  You can't cite any post where I support CIA coups and whatnot.  You simply extrapolate from my criticism of leftist populism that I must be all-in on the CIA and such.  Okay then.

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The perils of populist leftists elected democratically are none of my business unless it's happening in the US.

Your apologism for CIA ops and coups is functionally identical to open support.

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The perils of populist leftists elected democratically are none of my business unless it's happening in the US.
Your apologism for CIA ops and coups is functionally identical to open support.

You can keep saying that, because straw men are essential to your strategy of smug superiority, but the truth doesn’t care about your desire to be smug.

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I think, and I have stated it elsewhere before, that most South American countries and Russia have a lot in common in that there is a huge knowledge or education gap.  The indigenous people of South and even Central America are like former serfs in Russia:  grindingly poor and hideously uneducated and a vast majority of the population.   They are, therefore, susceptible to, as brisket says, promises of "worker's paradises" and similar things.

Well, these workers paradises are notoriously hard to bring off for a variety of reasons.  And moreso when the proponent of the paradise is a demagogue who has no real intention of creating a workers paradise.  And it seems that even the best intentions succumb to power and politics.

So the serf-type people are in a constant state of betrayal that foments violent revolution.  They seem to alternate faith in a worldly savior and in the military who promises to remove the now-hideously corrupt worldly savior, with an uncertain future after removal.  The cycle is interrupted periodically by the anti-communist fervor of the US and others, but the betrayal persists.

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Both Venezuela and Bolivia saw MASSIVE economic growth upon instituting socialist governance. Both Chavez and Morales were rightly celebrated internationally for reducing poverty.

The racism of saying these people are just too dumb for prosperity reminds me of old CR.

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Both Venezuela and Bolivia saw MASSIVE economic growth upon instituting socialist governance. Both Chavez and Morales were rightly celebrated internationally for reducing poverty.

The racism of saying these people are just too dumb for prosperity reminds me of old CR.

And the ignorance of someone who doesn’t realize the ease of growth in a resource economy with $120 bbl oil and the perils of such economic structure when the price drops to $45 bbl is breathtaking on its own. But entirely on-brand.

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Yes I don't know about the economics of O&G please tell me more, Brisket! lol fuck me sideways

Resource exploitation doesn't always lead to economic success in the nations being exploited. In fact, it's not always good for the bottom line to have to work with nationalized industries run by mass-movement politics, it's often a lot more profitable to just work with a despot who makes sure that the money goes to you as the extractor and himself as the leader.

I'd think it takes Icono levels of self-hatred to read shit like what is posted above that is a half-step above phrenology and still focus your fire on me, but you know what I don't live your experience so maybe I have a lot to learn about how it's Good, Actually to portray South and Central Americans as incapable of anything but jungle subsistence.

The reality, of course, is that private capital is corrupting. Under Chavismo, Venezuelan economic growth was larger in the private sector than the public. And Venezuela's economic woes worsened as that imbalance shifted more and more towards private capital and heavily exacerbated by murderous economic sanctions. Unlike the US, which has the benefit of unlimited debt to prop up its atavism, Venezuela couldn't follow the leader.

Poorly run and corrupt? Absolutely. But Donald Trump is our fucking president currently on trial and Canada's president can't stop approving pipelines and doing blackface. We don't have a ton of room to talk, and we certainly have no room to push coups.

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There's a reason b_t is on ignore.  When all you are is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I sure hate me some caucasoid Russian serfs.

Also, my post acknowledges the ultimate effects of extreme wealth inequality.

It will be interesting if the US or some other western power can actually create a serflike class from what we have now.  Trump seems to have taken some positive steps in that direction.

Edited by TwiceHorn

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On 11/26/2019 at 11:24 AM, elfenix said:

not doing coup things

 

 

That creep Quintana can roll, man.

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3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think, and I have stated it elsewhere before, that most South American countries and Russia have a lot in common in that there is a huge knowledge or education gap.  The indigenous people of South and even Central America are like former serfs in Russia:  grindingly poor and hideously uneducated and a vast majority of the population.   They are, therefore, susceptible to, as brisket says, promises of "worker's paradises" and similar things.

Well, these workers paradises are notoriously hard to bring off for a variety of reasons.  And moreso when the proponent of the paradise is a demagogue who has no real intention of creating a workers paradise.  And it seems that even the best intentions succumb to power and politics.

So the serf-type people are in a constant state of betrayal that foments violent revolution.  They seem to alternate faith in a worldly savior and in the military who promises to remove the now-hideously corrupt worldly savior, with an uncertain future after removal.  The cycle is interrupted periodically by the anti-communist fervor of the US and others, but the betrayal persists.

TLDR: they're too dumb to run their own country and evo morales was going to crown himself and loot the state

and?

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26 minutes ago, elfenix said:

TLDR: they're too dumb to run their own country and evo morales was going to crown himself and loot the state

and?

It's not so much a matter of dumb as uneducated.  And it's not like they have lots of opportunities that they have failed to avail themselves of.

Morales and his ilk may have lowered poverty rates, but they failed to establish institutions to empower the vast majority of the population, to wit, schools.  And it's not just Morales, it's everyone who's ever held power.

It seems to be the common denominator among countries that might be called ungobiernable.

The US dodged that bullet by essentially exterminating the indigenous.  The Spaniards didn't exterminate, but didn't do much to improve their condition, either, except maybe the Jesuits, who were fond of doling out a little education with their religion.

 

Edited by TwiceHorn

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3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes I don't know about the economics of O&G please tell me more, Brisket! lol fuck me sideways

Resource exploitation doesn't always lead to economic success in the nations being exploited. In fact, it's not always good for the bottom line to have to work with nationalized industries run by mass-movement politics, it's often a lot more profitable to just work with a despot who makes sure that the money goes to you as the extractor and himself as the leader.

I'd think it takes Icono levels of self-hatred to read shit like what is posted above that is a half-step above phrenology and still focus your fire on me, but you know what I don't live your experience so maybe I have a lot to learn about how it's Good, Actually to portray South and Central Americans as incapable of anything but jungle subsistence.

The reality, of course, is that private capital is corrupting. Under Chavismo, Venezuelan economic growth was larger in the private sector than the public. And Venezuela's economic woes worsened as that imbalance shifted more and more towards private capital and heavily exacerbated by murderous economic sanctions. Unlike the US, which has the benefit of unlimited debt to prop up its atavism, Venezuela couldn't follow the leader.

Poorly run and corrupt? Absolutely. But Donald Trump is our fucking president currently on trial and Canada's president can't stop approving pipelines and doing blackface. We don't have a ton of room to talk, and we certainly have no room to push coups.

Preach brother, preach...

51HB+5JVISL._SX321_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

 

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3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

There's a reason b_t is on ignore.  When all you are is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

I sure hate me some caucasoid Russian serfs.

Also, my post acknowledges the ultimate effects of extreme wealth inequality.

It will be interesting if the US or some other western power can actually create a serflike class from what we have now.  Trump seems to have taken some positive steps in that direction.

Have you taken a look at wage disparity over the last 30 / 40 years?  Combine that with the for profit prison system and what else would you call it other than a serfdom?

I guess "selective slavery" could be another term, but is that really better?

Edited by Fudge Nuggets

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44 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Have you taken a look at wage disparity over the last 30 / 40 years?  Combine that with the for profit prison system and what else would you call it other than a serfdom?

I guess "selective slavery" could be another term, but is that really better?

I acknowledge all of that.  Bolivia's poverty rate is roughly double that of the US.  And that fails to take into account in-kind benefits.  We've got a ways to go yet.

A goodly portion of the US has adopted serflike voting habits though.

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It is said that if the US doesn't involve itself in nations like Bolivia and such, we leave the door wide open for Russia and China to do so, and that's bad.  What is the board's thoughts on this?  Is this concern legit?  Overplayed?  Just let them do it and own the failure we otherwise would?

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This was a coup resulting after an election more legitimate than many we have in the US.



Little Rat Pete said that we need to focus on 2020, not the coups of the past.

How about this one and the one we attempted in Venezuela?

Dems are useless.

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1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Little Rat Pete said that we need to focus on 2020, not the coups of the past.

How about this one and the one we attempted in Venezuela?

 

Did he really say that? My science, that's fucking dense as hell. 

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------------------------------
BUTTIGIEG: This is not about what coups were happening in the 1970s or '80s, this is about the future. This is about 2020. We are not going to survive or succeed, and we're certainly not going to win by reliving the Cold War. And we're not going to win these critical, critical House and Senate races if people in those races have to explain why the nominee of the Democratic Party is telling people to look at the bright side of the Castro regime. We've got to be a lot smarter about this and look to the future.
------------------------------

The past is very important, both in terms of avoiding mistakes and in terms of understanding why what is happening is happening.

ESPECIALLY in terms of foreign policy.

But Pete is banking on being Lil' McCarthy, so he's trying to pretend the past doesn't matter.

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1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

------------------------------
BUTTIGIEG: This is not about what coups were happening in the 1970s or '80s, this is about the future. This is about 2020. We are not going to survive or succeed, and we're certainly not going to win by reliving the Cold War. And we're not going to win these critical, critical House and Senate races if people in those races have to explain why the nominee of the Democratic Party is telling people to look at the bright side of the Castro regime. We've got to be a lot smarter about this and look to the future.
------------------------------

The past is very important, both in terms of avoiding mistakes and in terms of understanding why what is happening is happening.

ESPECIALLY in terms of foreign policy.

But Pete is banking on being Lil' McCarthy, so he's trying to pretend the past doesn't matter.

Seriously if anyone thinks that Hondurans, for example, are caravaning here because that’s how they roll and not because of a ripple effect from 2009, they’re already admitting they know neither shit nor shinola and just flat out don’t live in the real world.

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On 5/12/2020 at 11:52 AM, bad_teammate said:

It was a right-wing coup.

 

No one serious believed otherwise. The only ones who did are those who have this campy fixation on living in a 24/7 world of Make Believe and Pretend.

And by the way, this is exactly how Venezuela would have turned out with that effeminate loser Guaido. They have a specific provision in their constitution that limited the amount of days that an interim president can serve before they absolutely had to have elections, and they never made any even semi serious efforts to do any of that...and this is all pre-coronavirus.

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