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Goo Punch

Give me your top 10 NBA players of all time

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1 minute ago, ztejas said:

Bro I'm not taking this anywhere else. You need to chill with the political, SJW shit on the sports boards and that's that. I'd like for this board to maintain some integrity throughout this crisis. So keep the partisan opinion issues to other boards right now.

Quit being a bitch and answer your PMs.  You didn't bitch about Tommys reply to aggie.

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Posted (edited)

surly celebrity deathmatch, Covid-19 edition: Fondren vs ztejas, boxing match in Pflugerville at my mom's crib, $10 entry fee to spectate, must keep six feet between you and the next man. except for ztejas and fondren; they gone be boxing each other. 

Edited by Goo Punch

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9 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

surly celebrity deathmatch, Covid-19 edition: Fondren vs ztejas, boxing match in Pflugerville at my mom's crib, $10 entry fee to spectate, must keep six feet between you and the next man. except for ztejas and fondren; they gone be boxing each other. 

Gonna need to see his covid test results and temperature first. Not looking to win on fight night but lose 2 weeks later. 

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It never occurred to me that the criminal and moral transgressions of professional athletes was a political issue.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

It never occurred to me that the criminal and moral transgressions of professional athletes was a political issue.

Some people are dumb assholes. 
 

Correction. Most people are dumb assholes.

Edited by Kermit

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16 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

surly celebrity deathmatch, Covid-19 edition: Fondren vs ztejas, boxing match in Pflugerville at my mom's crib, $10 entry fee to spectate, must keep six feet between you and the next man. except for ztejas and fondren; they gone be boxing each other. 

We already made up unfortunately. I was... on one last night as the kids say. 

Now if someone could wrangle CTJ for 3 rounds in the ring I'd be down. 

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23 minutes ago, Kermit said:

Some people are dumb assholes. 
 

Correction. Most people are dumb assholes.

Karl Malone is a dumb asshole. 

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14 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Karl Malone is a dumb asshole. 

Who fucks and impregnates 13 year old girls? Karl Malone does. Who knees you in the balls on a routine lay up? Karl Malone. Who goes hunting for little Mexican girls? Presumably Karl Malone. 

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Hope all are safe out there.

 

Off the top of my head, I hope I don't miss anyone...I could argue the merits of each player within a tier pretty well and have an easy respecting anyone making good arguments for these players, but might have a hard time supporting a Tier 2 all-timer to be the GOAT, etc.

Super Tier 1: (1-4)

MJ, LeBron, Kareem, Magic

Super Tier 2: (5-9)

Bird, Duncan, Wilt, Russell, Hakeem

Super Tier 3: (10ish)

Shaq, Kobe, Oscar

 

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On 4/7/2020 at 12:23 AM, Fastbreak said:

1. Jordan

2. LeBron

3. Kareem

4. Russell

5. Bird

6. Magic

7. Duncan

8. Wilt

9. Dr  J

10. Shaq 

Lucy, you have some 'splain' to do:

 

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On 4/6/2020 at 10:29 PM, Goo Punch said:

If Magic never caught HIV then the argument between him and MJ would be razor thin imo. Probably the two most talented players ever. 

Hell, if Bird had stayed healthy those last years (back) and Len Bias hadn't died, he'd be right there. 

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5 hours ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

A part of me dies every time somebody puts Duncan over Kobe

Are you one of those people who loves being lied to?

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1 hour ago, Kermit said:

Are you one of those people who loves being lied to?

Anyone that thinks Duncan was better than Kobe doesn’t know basketball 

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38 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

Anyone that thinks Duncan was better than Kobe doesn’t know basketball 

Do tell us, oh wise one.

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2 hours ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

Anyone that thinks Duncan was better than Kobe doesn’t know basketball 

It’s certainly debatable, but to state it as an absolute is absurd.  I’m a Mavs fan, and I really don’t like Tim’s whiny ass, but I would rank him ahead of Kobe.  He was a fucking outstanding basketball player, despite his lack of a spectacular dunk reel on YouTube.

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10 hours ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

Anyone that thinks Duncan was better than Kobe doesn’t know basketball 

The case for Tim Duncan

  • Best player on more titles (5 vs. 2)
  • More NBA MVPs (2 vs. 1)
  • More Finals MVPs (3 vs. 2)
  • More All-Defense Teams (15 vs. 12)
  • More Career Win Shares (7th vs. 19th)
  • Better Career PER (14th vs. 27th)
  • Better Career Def Rating (3rd vs. unranked)
  • Better Career VORP (6th vs. 12th)
  • Better Career plus/minus (16th vs. 29th)
  • NBA rebounding leader x1
  • Career blocks - 4th
  • Career rebounds - 6th

The case for Kobe Bryant:

  • More All-Star appearances (18 vs. 15)
  • More All-Star MVPs (4 vs. 1)
  • More career points (4th vs. 14th)
  • NBA scoring leader 2x
  • Career steals - 17th
  • More apparel sales
  • More commercials
  • Not boring
  • Lakers, duh
  • Oscar for best short film

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8 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

It’s certainly debatable, but to state it as an absolute is absurd.  I’m a Mavs fan, and I really don’t like Tim’s whiny ass, but I would rank him ahead of Kobe.  He was a fucking outstanding basketball player, despite his lack of a spectacular dunk reel on YouTube.

QuLE.gif

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As a final critique of Dirk, how can you be a top-20 big man, 7 footer and average 0.8 blocks per game over a career, and only 0.6 bpg in his two longest playoff runs? 

Early in his career, Dallas could never win at the highest level because of his defensive limitations.  They would pair him up with stiffs like Shawn Bradley, Desagana Diop, Raef LaFrentz.

It wasn't until they added future defensive POY Tyson Chandler in 2011, that the team had the toughness and defensive presence to win it all.  And Dallas let Chandler go like morons the following year.

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and as has been noted, Dirk was merely aight in his lone Finals win. he did not put the team on his back and lead them to victory vs Miami. Chandler's defense and the shooting from guys like Kidd and Terry played just as big a factor as anything Dirk did during the Finals. 

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1 hour ago, HookEm said:

The case for Kobe Bryant:

  • More All-Star appearances (18 vs. 15)
  • More All-Star MVPs (4 vs. 1)
  • More career points (4th vs. 14th)
  • NBA scoring leader 2x
  • Career steals - 17th
  • More apparel sales
  • More commercials
  • Not boring
  • Lakers, duh
  • Oscar for best short film

A-S MVP?  That’s like never missing in the layup drill. 

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1 hour ago, HookEm said:

The case for Tim Duncan

  • Best player on more titles (5 vs. 2)
  • More NBA MVPs (2 vs. 1)
  • More Finals MVPs (3 vs. 2)
  • More All-Defense Teams (15 vs. 12)
  • More Career Win Shares (7th vs. 19th)
  • Better Career PER (14th vs. 27th)
  • Better Career Def Rating (3rd vs. unranked)
  • Better Career VORP (6th vs. 12th)
  • Better Career plus/minus (16th vs. 29th)
  • NBA rebounding leader x1
  • Career blocks - 4th
  • Career rebounds - 6th

The case for Kobe Bryant:

  • More All-Star appearances (18 vs. 15)
  • More All-Star MVPs (4 vs. 1)
  • More career points (4th vs. 14th)
  • NBA scoring leader 2x
  • Career steals - 17th
  • More apparel sales
  • More commercials
  • Not boring
  • Lakers, duh
  • Oscar for best short film

Best player on more titles? Duncan wasn’t the best player on the Spurs for like ten years

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9 hours ago, conVINCEd said:

It’s certainly debatable, but to state it as an absolute is absurd.  I’m a Mavs fan, and I really don’t like Tim’s whiny ass, but I would rank him ahead of Kobe.  He was a fucking outstanding basketball player, despite his lack of a spectacular dunk reel on YouTube.

Was he outstanding when lost as a 1 seed to an 8th seed? Or are we just knit picking accolades

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Other than someone pointing out that they're a Mavs' fan , why are we talking about Dirk? Did you guys miss the exit for the Top 10 White Players thread?

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, VirginiaLonghorn said:

A-S MVP?  That’s like never missing in the layup drill. 

No shit. I don't much care who had the most cherry-picked dunks in a given year's All-Star game. Hell, even All-Star appearances are watered down. Kobe's last 3 selections were on name recognition only (he was voted an All-Star for a season in which he played 6 games). You can certainly make the argument that Duncan's last 3 All-Star selections were on reputation more than merit as well.

Both TD and Kobe made 15 All-NBA teams. Those are the selections that matter.

Edited by aggie08

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

Tim Duncan had Ginobili, Parker, Robinson, Kawhi, on his championship teams.

Kobe had Shaq and Pau

I don't think that this post is making the point that you intend for it to make.

Edited by aggie08

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Was he outstanding when lost as a 1 seed to an 8th seed? Or are we just knit picking accolades

Like that 2007 Dirk led team that lost to Golden State?

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Just now, Hate said:


Like that 2007 Dirk led team that lost to Golden State?

I’m not putting Dirk anywhere near my top ten so idk why this was brought up

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

Any of y’all remember prime Duncan getting destroyed by 40 yr old Karl Malone?

I'll be honest, I don't have a particularly clear recollection of this series, but glancing at each player's box scores, it doesn't quite read like a destruction of TD delivered via Malone 🤷‍♂️

eta: I guess you could say he got him game 3.... but that's 1 of 6 games

Edited by TommyGufano

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Sorry, got you mixed up with Convinced as far as really bad basketball takes. Subjectivity aside, Tim Duncan is indisputably in the top 10 basketball players of all time and had a better overall career than Kobe. IMO, he was the better player, but as you can tell by my avatar I am a little biased.

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32 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

and as has been noted, Dirk was merely aight in his lone Finals win. he did not put the team on his back and lead them to victory vs Miami. Chandler's defense and the shooting from guys like Kidd and Terry played just as big a factor as anything Dirk did during the Finals. 

Dirk averaged 26 and 10 with 42/37/98 splits while playing 40 minutes a game. He led the Mavericks in scoring in every game but one, and was first or second in rebounds in every game.  In the one game he didn't lead the Mavericks in scoring (the clinching Game 6), he led them in scoring in both the third and the fourth quarters. In the massive Game 2 comeback, Dirk scored the final 9 points, including a three to take the lead and a layup after Chalmers tied it.

Seems more than "merely aight" to me.  

   

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47 minutes ago, Reynolds Woodcock said:

Dirk averaged 26 and 10 with 42/37/98 splits while playing 40 minutes a game. He led the Mavericks in scoring in every game but one, and was first or second in rebounds in every game.  In the one game he didn't lead the Mavericks in scoring (the clinching Game 6), he led them in scoring in both the third and the fourth quarters. In the massive Game 2 comeback, Dirk scored the final 9 points, including a three to take the lead and a layup after Chalmers tied it.

Seems more than "merely aight" to me.  

   

 

In six games he shot:

7/18 FG

10/22

11/21

6/19

9/18

9/27

he was fine. his 2011 finals performance wouldn't sniff the list the list of the top, I dunno, 50, 60+ Finals performances, especially considering his lack of defense. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hate said:

Sorry, got you mixed up with Convinced as far as really bad basketball takes. Subjectivity aside, Tim Duncan is indisputably in the top 10 basketball players of all time and had a better overall career than Kobe. IMO, he was the better player, but as you can tell by my avatar I am a little biased.

Duncan is definitely on the top 10 bubble but it's definitely not indisputable 

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Duncan is definitely on the top 10 bubble but it's definitely not indisputable 

Way to clear that up. Definitely.

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Posted (edited)

I think the general feeling toward Shaq in this discussion is interesting. It seems that some ppl get so fixated on what he wasn't (and I understand that we're splitting hairs when discussing the top-10 in the history of the sport) that his utter dominance is kind of hand waved. I guess it's understandable that there isn't a ton of warm and fuzzy feelings about him since it's a discussion mostly among fans of Texas teams, but that fucking guy was such a problem. I haven't actually put a list down yet, but LeBron is the only post-MJ great that I would for certain have on top of him.

edit for precision: prolly 1/2 his prime was concurrent with MJ, but given that all titles came post-Bulls MJ, I think that probably still the correct bucket to throw him in.

 

 

Edited by TommyGufano

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1 hour ago, Goo Punch said:

 

In six games he shot:

7/18 FG

10/22

11/21

6/19

9/18

9/27

he was fine. his 2011 finals performance wouldn't sniff the list the list of the top, I dunno, 50, 60+ Finals performances, especially considering his lack of defense. 

 

 

 

And none of that changes one single fact about someone saying that he "Carried his team to a Finals win".  He absolutely did.  What did he have to shoot 30 shots and score 35 ppg to do that in your mind?  He didn't have to do that because that wasn't the series that was being played.  Those were mostly low scoring games where efficiency mattered more than total shots.

Saying he was fine is like saying Duncan was fine in all his Finals appearances.  You obviously have some sort of blinders/bias against Dirk and it shows once again in another thread.

GTFO with that BS.  A guy doesn't have to average 30 and 15 to have a great Finals and LEAD HIS TEAM to a Title.  Jesus.

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40 minutes ago, Drew said:

Those were mostly low scoring games where efficiency mattered more than total shots.

Jesus you're such a fucking moron. You just quoted my post where I showed how inefficient Dirk was and then you reply with this brilliant shit. You make Aqua Buddha look like Woj.

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Yes I'M the moron when you quoted a post and claimed it proved that you were right.  News Flash, you weren't.

 

But please, continue your complete random, but enthusiastic Dirk Bashing like you always do.

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42 minutes ago, Drew said:

Saying he was fine is like saying Duncan was fine in all his Finals appearances.  You obviously have some sort of blinders/bias against Dirk and it shows once again in another thread.

GTFO with that BS.  A guy doesn't have to average 30 and 15 to have a great Finals and LEAD HIS TEAM to a Title.  Jesus.

It's amazing how stupid and child like you are. dope meltdown derka. i like how you make your arguments using ALL CAPS and child like accusations instead of using even a single fact, stat, or cogent argument. you're clueless, and the have the emotional maturity of a young me. you should be proud.  

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okay, I'll play, with the note that my list is based on Did the player change the way the game is played. 

 

1. Wilt

2. Russell

3. Jabbar

4. Jordan

5. Magic

6. Bird

7. LBJ

8. Shaq

9. Dirk

10.  Dr. J. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Drew said:

Yes I'M the moron when you quoted a post and claimed it proved that you were right.  News Flash, you weren't.

 

But please, continue your complete random, but enthusiastic Dirk Bashing like you always do.

i'm literally posting his stats. how is that "Dirk bashing"? 
 

Also, if you insist on being this invested in this argument, i'm going to have to ask you to start using facts, stats, and empirical evidence, and not just screaming and crying about how I hate Dirk Nowitzki because i'm pointing out that he factually wasn't all that great for the majority of that series. 

Edited by Goo Punch

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Here's Dirk "being great" and "leading his team to the title" as Drew claims:

Game 6 win- 9/27 FG, 1/7 3P, 2/2 FT, 21 pts, 11 reb, 1 ast, and a -4 +/-. He had a big 4Q which is essentially where he did all of his damage, but the Mavs wouldn't have even been in the game if it weren't for the play of Marion, Kidd, Barrea, and particularly Jason Terry who went 11/16 from the field and dropped 27 points. 

 

so he missed 2/3 of his shots, missed 7/8 3P, only got to the line once, and had a negative +/-, but yeah, only a "Dirk basher" wouldn't describe that as "great". get the fuck out of here. 

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1 hour ago, TommyGufano said:

edit for precision: prolly 1/2 his prime was concurrent with MJ, but given that all titles came post-Bulls MJ, I think that probably still the correct bucket to throw him in.

He and Penny gave MJ his only playoff loss post-1990. That's gotta count for something.

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Just now, aggie08 said:

He and Penny gave MJ his only playoff loss post-1990. That's gotta count for something.

Oh, the excuses that Jordan-stans offer up for that loss. There are many who refuse to acknowledge he even played that season. 

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