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That’s a special 45 is it doesn’t have rear facing club seats. Let me guess, Flexjet?


It does have club seats. I was in one of the front two seats.

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1 hour ago, milkman said:

 


It does have club seats. I was in one of the front two seats.

 

I know, but the front two club seats face aft unless you are in one of a select few 6 seat 45 models.  Or you spun the seat entirely around.

Edited by Bobby_Batronic

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C-47 from the CAF Highland Lakes Sqn. apparently lost an engine on take-off (headed to OSH) and burned.  County sheriff says the 13 aboard made it out. 

 

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I know, but the front two club seats face aft unless you are in one of a select few 6 seat 45 models.  Or you spun the seat entirely around.


This actually seats 11. If you count the seatbelt on the throne and the two pilots up front!

The second and third rows are used for the club seating.

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C-47 from the CAF Highland Lakes Sqn. apparently lost an engine on take-off (headed to OSH) and burned.  County sheriff says the 13 aboard made it out. 
 


How old is that airframe? 85 years?

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56 minutes ago, milkman said:

 


This actually seats 11. If you count the seatbelt on the throne and the two pilots up front!

The second and third rows are used for the club seating.

 

I have 5000 hours in the plane. I know the seating. Again, the front seats face aft if you’re in the 8 seat 45 configuration. Did you spin the chair completely around?  Because the person on the right side of the plane in the first row would have a lap full of cabinet if those seats mounted facing forward. 

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I have 5000 hours in the plane. I know the seating. Again, the front seats face aft if you’re in the 8 seat 45 configuration. Did you spin the chair completely around?  Because the person on the right side of the plane in the first row would have a lap full of cabinet if those seats mounted facing forward. 


Correct the front right seat very rarely gets used and is facing forward.

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1 hour ago, milkman said:

 


Correct the front right seat very rarely gets used and is facing forward.

 

Yeah. I’ve got to tell you, I’m pretty sure y’all have those seats all turned around and nobody knows it. The plane is set up for double club seating. Rows 1 and 3 should face aft, and having them spun around for convenience isn’t a good thing. Somenone probably doesn’t know better. 

We tried that with the front left seat when carrying a raft to keep pax from messing with it and the word came down from on high that the seat wasn’t certified to be in that position for takeoff and landing, or built to handle loads that way. You might mention it as I’m pretty sure someone just winged it, and doesn’t know it’s wrong. 

The only exception being the 6 seat 45 configuration which is rare. 

Edited by Bobby_Batronic

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Yeah. I’ve got to tell you, I’m pretty sure y’all have those seats all turned around and nobody knows it. The plane is set up for double club seating. Rows 1 and 3 should face aft, and having them spun around for convenience isn’t a good thing. Somenone probably doesn’t know better. 
We tried that with the front left seat when carrying a raft to keep pax from messing with it and the word came down from on high that the seat wasn’t certified to be in that position for takeoff and landing, or built to handle loads that way. You might mention it as I’m pretty sure someone just winged it, and doesn’t know it’s wrong. 
The only exception being the 6 seat 45 configuration which is rare. 


Thanks for the info. I will pass this along.

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24 minutes ago, milkman said:

 


Thanks for the info. I will pass this along.

 

Thanks. Not trying to be a dick about it, but my former employer was the manufacturer. 

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Damn, hate to see that old C47 bite the dust. Glad there were no fatalities, but they said one person suffered bad burns & was sent down to Brooke Army Hospital for treatment.

 My first flight ride (besides a family friend's Piper Cub & Beechcraft V-Tail Bonanza) was on one of those in 1958 - Civil Air Transport (CAT) from Taipei to Hong Kong's Kai Tak Airport.

CAT was the Nationalist Chinese airline at the time, and it was taken over by the CIA later on. That old (even then) C47 was pretty ratted out. It had a long range fuel tank in the right side of the cabin across from my web seat. A Chinese coolie baggage handler laid on a straw mat on top of it smoking cigarettes while reading comic books all the way to Hong Kong.

Edited by Armybrat

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Had my first opportunity to fly our 737 MAX9 IAH - ANC. Still a 737 but it was super smooth. New radar allegedly good to 320nm with lightning and hail locations. Also a rear camera to show approaching flight attendants and terrorists. Most importantly after 50 years Boeing put 2 cup holders in per side.

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Just flew on the AA 777-200 MIA-LAX. When we landed, they parked out in the boonies and not at the terminal.

They brought in a big aluminum ramp to deplane and put us on buses. That gave me an opportunity to see the aircraft from ground level instead of looking out an airport window.

Holy fuck, those engines are big. I’m guessing 9 feet in diameter. You don’t appreciate the enormous size of the aircraft until you’re standing next to it

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5 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Just flew on the AA 777-200 MIA-LAX. When we landed, they parked out in the boonies and not at the terminal.

They brought in a big aluminum ramp to deplane and put us on buses. That gave me an opportunity to see the aircraft from ground level instead of looking out an airport window.

Holy fuck, those engines are big. I’m guessing 9 feet in diameter. You don’t appreciate the enormous size of the aircraft until you’re standing next to it

Those engines are the diameter of a 737 fuselage. 

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2 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Where is the pic of the cup holders? 

In my formative years I did some corporate flying with a JAL 747 CA who moonlighted in a King Air because he was bored. At the time he was flying the 747-300, and he absolutely hated it. Why?  Boeing took away the cupholder he used to stow his wallet for the flight. 

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So my second Oshkosh adventure was vastly different from my first, but still positive. I wasn’t there the whole week, rather Thursday to Saturday, which meant a lot of stuff I wanted to see (warbirds) had rotated out. Also, Chad Jr. and his cousin came along so there was a lot more kid wrangling and less photo taking. Moreover, by the time we got there the crowds had massed so it was much more difficult to get clean shots of planes without tons of people in them. All that said, it was tons of fun.

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We spent the better part of Thursday at Kidventure which I won’t bore you all with but Chad Jr., loved so much we spent a couple hours there each day making things. If you have kids and go, don’t miss it.

First thing we hit was the MH-47 where Chad Jr. got to work the mini-gun in the window. He’s hooked. If he could’ve signed up for Army Aviation on the spot he would’ve. They told him they appreciated his enthusiasm, but he should come back in about 13 years.
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KC-10 (its the year of the tanker) and that weird little Star Wars themed biz jet.
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C-17 put on a good display each day.
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Some Navy iron at the Warbirds main area on Thursday. Of particular note is the AU-1 (would’ve been the F4U-6 but Congress wasn’t interested in buying more Corsairs) Marine ground attack version of the Corsair second from left. This resto was just finished in the last few weeks and it wears a unique 50s gray scheme. There isn’t another like it out there.
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I would’ve lingered longer but Chad Jr. saw a B-17 (Yankee Lady) and we were literally off and running.
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Giant radios at the radio station.
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Chad Jr. taking out some 109s with the port waist gun.
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Lonely little tail gunners compartment.
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^AC-47. C-47 loaded with mini guns.

Yak-9
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It was the 100th anniversary of the RAF and there was a Gloster Meteor there earlier in the week. So I consoled myself with this Spit.
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A few P-51s
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A couple of P-40s for good measure.
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^This early F-84 is there year round but it’s such a rare bird I don’t tire of it.

The adversary:
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Random Epic shot on the way to settle in for the air show.
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Thursday afternoon air show had the typical (for Oshkosh - not anywhere else) collection:

Somebody ‘Murcah-ed two Yaks by joining them together around a J-85. This guy was doing some absolutely crazy asymmetrical thrust maneuvers.
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Canadian Harvard team (80th Anniversary of that type’s first flight)
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And those are Thursday’s highlights. What does Chad Jr. think?
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8 hours ago, DaysOff said:

Had my first opportunity to fly our 737 MAX9 IAH - ANC. Still a 737 but it was super smooth. New radar allegedly good to 320nm with lightning and hail locations. Also a rear camera to show approaching flight attendants and terrorists. Most importantly after 50 years Boeing put 2 cup holders in per side.

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I flew the Max 800 last month for the first time. Smooth and quiet. Engines take forever to start. Do y’all not have the cup holders at your inboard knee and another under the side window on the older models? I haven’t seen one without both. We must have splurged on cup holders with all the money we saved on jerry-rigged VNAV software. 

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10 hours ago, Chuychanga said:

I flew the Max 800 last month for the first time. Smooth and quiet. Engines take forever to start. Do y’all not have the cup holders at your inboard knee and another under the side window on the older models? I haven’t seen one without both. We must have splurged on cup holders with all the money we saved on jerry-rigged VNAV software. 

The 320 NEO’s have this pre-cooling feature where the engine will just spin for a self determined, variable time and then start. We started getting the dual cooling feature where they both spin when you start the first motor so that you don’t have to wait on the second motor. Crazy quiet those things. 321 finally looks like it has enough engine. 

 

Our VNAV is still “Pong” level programming. Their are 5 ways to monitor your descent profile, and the best is that lump on top of your shoulders doing mental math and checking the range ring to fixes down the line. 

Edited by Bobby_Batronic

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15 hours ago, DaysOff said:

Filled with a cup and a diet coke.

does it hold a real cup or just those tiny airline ones?

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The 320 NEO’s have this pre-cooling feature where the engine will just spin for a self determined, variable time and then start. We started getting the dual cooling feature where they both spin when you start the first motor so that you don’t have to wait on the second motor. Crazy quiet those things. 321 finally looks like it has enough engine. 
 
Our VNAV is still “Pong” level programming. Their are 5 ways to monitor your descent profile, and the best is that lump on top of your shoulders doing mental math and checking the range ring to fixes down the line. 


Always amazes me the level of options available on an airliner beyond the traditionL stuff like motor, MTOW stuff, tiller for the FO, etc.

What options are there for VNAV pathing? I figured the avionics software would be pretty standardized...and a decent model of the aircraft such that it can properly hit waypoints at needed limits, or maximize idle descent time, seems like a pretty basic part of the airframe.

Do the new MAX still have an actual bell for the fire alarm? Can you WN guys pull up the steam gauge-styled PFD?

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1 hour ago, Homercles said:

 


Always amazes me the level of options available on an airliner beyond the traditionL stuff like motor, MTOW stuff, tiller for the FO, etc.

What options are there for VNAV pathing? I figured the avionics software would be pretty standardized...and a decent model of the aircraft such that it can properly hit waypoints at needed limits, or maximize idle descent time, seems like a pretty basic part of the airframe.

Do the new MAX still have an actual bell for the fire alarm? Can you WN guys pull up the steam gauge-styled PFD?

 

Ya gotta remember that the avionics on a brand spanking new 320 series is essentially the same tech that they trotted out back when the thing was introduced. Star Wars stuff then. Embarrassing by a new 182’s standards now.

There’s some thought that the ADS- B stuff is going to force Airbus to tighten up their avionics as things like the 40kt window around a Star speed isn’t going to be acceptable anymore. 

Edited by Bobby_Batronic

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2 hours ago, Homercles said:

Yeah...but a table folds out! And Open Descent

I love that table. You shut your dam mouf. 

Open descent below 10k and full boards is pretty much a prerequisite to get down. On the 320 you kick off the autopilot so you can get full boards. 

 You can manage the descent and let the computer do the work. Usually pretty good, but do the mental math, and it gives itself 20kts either side of a star speed to make a crossing restriction. It’s always on the high side. 

Edited by Bobby_Batronic

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I love that table. You shut your dam mouf.  Open descent below 10k and full boards is pretty much a prerequisite to get down. On the 320 you kick off the autopilot so you can get full boards. 

 You can manage the descent and let the computer do the work. Usually pretty good, but do the mental math, and it gives itself 20kts either side of a star speed to make a crossing restriction. It’s always on the high side. 

 

 

I’m assuming boards = speed brakes?

 

As long as you don’t have 0 or something set in the ALT window, it’s not like it’ll just descend forever, correct? I thought it was a bit like FLCH where the speed is managed by pitch, but with the engines sitting idle.

 

I recall reading a few close calls over OPEN DES where the drivers didn’t fully comprehend how the A/T would behave and got into situations where Alpha floor limits kicked in or otherwise out of whack with energy at low altitude...so was a little surprised to see usage under 10k but given the 250kt speed limit and a lot of restrictions for STAR/vectors guess you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

For whatever reason the automatics have always been a central point of interest in my aviation nerdness...in another life I think I’d have just as much fun flying a B2 as an A10. So thanks for the insight, and of course Asiana 214 showed the airframe doesn’t matter if you’re a child of the magenta line.

 

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Yes, boards are spoilers. The bus looks a little frumpy but it doesn’t like to slow down and go down.  You need them. 

Correct, it’ll stop at your selected altitude. It descends at 1000 fpm until you hit a precomputed thrust idle descent point. But it won’t do the last 1000 at 1000fpm so you have to make sure you don’t light up the TCAS and cause an RA. It will also cause some terrain issues if you aren’t careful  with Open Descent  

The plane has a limitation of setting the altitude to a minimum of 500agl 319-20/ 900agl 321 if you’re using open descent. Honestly, I use vertical speed in the approach environment as I can set the plane up to descend all the way to the FAF and then head down the G/S. 

Getting into Alpha Floor is a byproduct of getting very slow and overcoming some angle of attack protections. Alpha floor is just TOGA becoming Alpha Lock meaning you’ve got to disconnect and reconnect the ATHR to get the plane out of TOGA. There’s probably 100 ways to get yourself into that situation, and I’ll never say never, but it takes some effort and lack of understanding.  

The gotcha that I have to watch for is the ATHR following the F/D. If  you’re hand flying in Open Climb and pitch over for 1000 fpm for the last 1000 feet for traffic above the plane won’t reduce power to maintain 250 kias below 10,000. Ops checked that a few times. If you select 1000 fpm V/S it will adjust thrust for 250 kias, but is overly sensitive to getting off your V/S by even 100 fpm. 

 

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