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Making a Murderer: Part 2 (Netflix)


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I started watching random episodes I wanted to follow up more info on and holy fuck how annoying and unethical is AG Schimmel? He literally hides behind Teresa Halbach as a way to justify keep Dassey in Prison, "Lets also remember Teresa and her family as this is going on". Getting to the real facts should be the focus and not the feelings of the family. The entire state of Wisconsin are fucking retards and corrupt pieces of shit.

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1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

The fact that Colburn was allowed to “investigate” or be near a case involving a person he previously withheld evidence against, keeping the same man wrongfully in prison for 13 years is fucking bonkers. 

Bonkers. 

Exactly which makes why they wouldn’t allow the coroner who according to this show outranks the sheriff in a homicide case because it’s a “conflict of interests” yet they allow coburn and lt link all over the property, Coburn calls in her vehicle, coburn and link are inside his trailer like half a dozen times and link “finds” the key magically after 4 trips. It’s crazy how obvious it is to anyone outside of nutsville, I mean Wisconsin.

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5 hours ago, VinyVango said:

wtf?  "...one time staring at her and making cat noises for 45 minutes"

https://www.wbay.com/content/news/Judge-Len-Kachinsky-formally-charged-with-stalking-487932641.html

I don’t remember what episode in season 2 they go to old Len home where he of course doubles down like the rest of them and says he thought he did a great job as his cat is shown wandering around. That dude is creepy as fuck and shockingly single.

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17 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Exactly which makes why they wouldn’t allow the coroner who according to this show outranks the sheriff in a homicide case because it’s a “conflict of interests” yet they allow coburn and lt link all over the property, Coburn calls in her vehicle, coburn and link are inside his trailer like half a dozen times and link “finds” the key magically after 4 trips. It’s crazy how obvious it is to anyone outside of nutsville, I mean Wisconsin.

Everyone in that county is corrup as fuck. 

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8 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

I don’t remember what episode in season 2 they go to old Len home where he of course doubles down like the rest of them and says he thought he did a great job as his cat is shown wandering around. That dude is creepy as fuck and shockingly single.

he's the real life version of william h macey in fargo.

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6 hours ago, Deej said:

Everything points to her murder going down on the adjoining property, which doesn't fit at all with the prosecution's theory. Doesn't mean Avery didn't do it, but seriously undermines their theory.

i can't be clear enough here: literally nothing points to steven avery and/brendan dassey committing this crime, and aside from brendan's coerced confession, literally everything else points to both of these guys being completely innocent. 

 

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11 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Exactly which makes why they wouldn’t allow the coroner who according to this show outranks the sheriff in a homicide case because it’s a “conflict of interests” yet they allow coburn and lt link all over the property, Coburn calls in her vehicle, coburn and link are inside his trailer like half a dozen times and link “finds” the key magically after 4 trips. It’s crazy how obvious it is to anyone outside of nutsville, I mean Wisconsin.

The petition i linked on the previous page states the key was found on the 6th search of his house.  

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one thing I haven't touched on as much is the dassey confession.  Maybe we haven't seen the whole thing, but there is simply no reasonable person who could watch that, and conclude he wasn't led/coerced into that confession.  I was appalled judge Hamilton was so steadfast and resolute in his opinion the confession was authentic, and there were no issues with the manner in which the confession was acquired.  I'm no lawyer, but there's simply no way they didn't lead him into that fabricated tale.  ANd that is before we even get to the fact that there is not one single piece of forensic evidence that backs up Dassey's confession that they handcuffed and shackled her, stabbed her in the stomach, cut her throat, raped her, all inside the house, and then took her outside and shot her in the head.  They even told him where they "knew" the location of the shooting after he said it was outside by the fire pit they led him into saying the garage, yet no forensic evidence was found in the garage until a later search was performed.  This whole thing is tragic on so many levels.  We have a young, hard working woman murdered, a couple of doofus suspects who are basically Lloyd Christmas and Harry, a corrupt law enforcement office, unethical prosecution, and unfit defense team.  there are so many glaring examples of injustice at every stage of this, starting with poor Teresa Halbach.  

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Judge Hamilton getting so hung up on the parts of the confession that weren't feed to Dassey but completely overlooking that all evidence points to those parts being completely fabricated was easily the most rage inducing moment. Dude had totally checked out on this review and frankly didn't give a shit. 

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10 hours ago, Tired of Lurking said:

I don't remember what was strange about the stepfather (Scott Tadysch) so I was kinda lost how the lawyer came to him and Bobby Dassey being a pair, but Bobby is the biggest suspect for sure. And if he let his little brother rot in jail knowing that he had nothing to do with it, then damn...

I don't remember why she brought Scott into it either other then just throwing everything out there to create more doubt.

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1 hour ago, pepper brooks said:

one thing I haven't touched on as much is the dassey confession.  Maybe we haven't seen the whole thing, but there is simply no reasonable person who could watch that, and conclude he wasn't led/coerced into that confession.  I was appalled judge Hamilton was so steadfast and resolute in his opinion the confession was authentic, and there were no issues with the manner in which the confession was acquired.  I'm no lawyer, but there's simply no way they didn't lead him into that fabricated tale.  ANd that is before we even get to the fact that there is not one single piece of forensic evidence that backs up Dassey's confession that they handcuffed and shackled her, stabbed her in the stomach, cut her throat, raped her, all inside the house, and then took her outside and shot her in the head.  They even told him where they "knew" the location of the shooting after he said it was outside by the fire pit they led him into saying the garage, yet no forensic evidence was found in the garage until a later search was performed.  This whole thing is tragic on so many levels.  We have a young, hard working woman murdered, a couple of doofus suspects who are basically Lloyd Christmas and Harry, a corrupt law enforcement office, unethical prosecution, and unfit defense team.  there are so many glaring examples of injustice at every stage of this, starting with poor Teresa Halbach.  

the fact we have these 7th circuit judges working together in some of america's highest courts, and one of them says, "that interrogation made my skin crawl", while another says, "there was absolutely nothing out of line with it" says everything about my faith in the us justice system.

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1 hour ago, Alvin89 said:

I don't remember why she brought Scott into it either other then just throwing everything out there to create more doubt.

If I remember correctly she brought scott tadych into it because the eye witness saw the rav4 on the side of the road right next to where scott lived at the time, he also had another piece of land close to the quarry or kutts rd if I remember correctly. 

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41 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

the fact we have these 7th circuit judges working together in some of america's highest courts, and one of them says, "that interrogation made my skin crawl", while another says, "there was absolutely nothing out of line with it" says everything about my faith in the us justice system.

even more odd to me, and I am not trying to make this in any way "political", but the "nothing to see here guy" was an Obama appointment while the "skin crawl" lady was first appointed as a judge by Reagan.  The third lady was a Bush judge who obviously sided with Dassey too. The  view of the woman seemed to be quite clear and rooted in basic common sense which I found slightly interesting given the murder victim was a young woman.  The guy seemed to have his mind made up and he wasn't going to go against law enforcement under any circumstances.  You simply cannot come away from that thinking they took "special care" in the interrogation of a minor, and a retarded one at that.  

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Yea I thought it was interesting too that the male judges all said no and the women said yes. 

Male judges know the law and probably have a ton of police officer friends and don’t have issue with the way they interrogate a suspect. I think the issue is the way they approach it, they ignore his age and his low IQ and take each case the same. 

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I'm not a criminal defense lawyer, but I try civil cases and matters frequently (mostly in federal court) so how can the state try the Dassey and Avery cases under inconsistent theories without the defense in the second case using it to his advantage?  Why wouldn't the prosecutor's statements/arguments/questions be admissions by a party/opponent (the State of Wisconsin) in the second trial?  I am familiar with pleading a case under alternative theories but you always run the risk of confusing the fact finder and/or having your statements and contentions being used against you.  I would think that there's no legal prohibition against the state proceeding under inconsistent theories (but is there an ethical problem with the state doing so?), but the defense in the second case should be able to argue and present evidence to the jury that the state has changed its story.  And perhaps the defendant in the first case ought to be able to use the change in position in an appeal.  Were they prevented from doing so in this case, or did they drop the ball?

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14 hours ago, Tired of Lurking said:

I don't remember what was strange about the stepfather (Scott Tadysch) so I was kinda lost how the lawyer came to him and Bobby Dassey being a pair, but Bobby is the biggest suspect for sure. And if he let his little brother rot in jail knowing that he had nothing to do with it, then damn...

After watching the first season, I said it doesn't make much sense the happiness/overreaction both he and Bobby Dassey had to the verdict.  I mean even if you don't like your brother in law, you have to know Brendan situation is worse when Avery is convicted.  That and I did catch that his testimony changed...

From Reddit regarding his Scott's statements:

Evolution of the Fire

The fire evolved from normal and unmemorable (2005 statements) to the most memorable event he recalled from 10/31, with 8-10 foot high flames (2007 statement). It also changed from being observed around 5:30 p.m. to not being noticed until around 7:45 p.m.

  • 11/10/05- - No noted mention of any fire at all in the report.

  • 11/29/05 - Saw fire already at 5:30 p.m. and again at 7:45 p.m. Recalled it being a typical fire he has seen at Avery's other times in the past and thought nothing of it. He couldn't recall mentioning anything unusual about it to Barb that evening.

  • 03/30/06 - Saw a "big" fire at 7:45 p.m.

  • 02/27/07 - Did not recall seeing any fire when he first got there around 5:30 p.m. Later observed a roaring fire around "8-10 feet tall" (the height of the garage) and this fire was the most memorable event to Scott on 10/31.

 

There were other discrepancies but the Fire started it.  IMHO.

Then when she started focusing in on Bobby due to the computer and the prosecutors hiding it, she works back through his alibi (he was hunting) and Scott is his alibi witness so then Zellner runs through both their days to confirm they are where they said they were.

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3 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Question for the Law dogs on here. Since the Supreme Court denied to review the Dassey case can he ever resubmit the request or is that it for him?

From my limited understanding, he is mostly done.  He could file a Motion like Avery regarding new evidence/testing/etc., but its contingent on him finding new evidence.  So I think he is stuck legally speaking riding Zellner's coattails.

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one thing I haven't touched on as much is the dassey confession.  Maybe we haven't seen the whole thing, but there is simply no reasonable person who could watch that, and conclude he wasn't led/coerced into that confession.  I was appalled judge Hamilton was so steadfast and resolute in his opinion the confession was authentic, and there were no issues with the manner in which the confession was acquired.  I'm no lawyer, but there's simply no way they didn't lead him into that fabricated tale.  ANd that is before we even get to the fact that there is not one single piece of forensic evidence that backs up Dassey's confession that they handcuffed and shackled her, stabbed her in the stomach, cut her throat, raped her, all inside the house, and then took her outside and shot her in the head.  They even told him where they "knew" the location of the shooting after he said it was outside by the fire pit they led him into saying the garage, yet no forensic evidence was found in the garage until a later search was performed.  This whole thing is tragic on so many levels.  We have a young, hard working woman murdered, a couple of doofus suspects who are basically Lloyd Christmas and Harry, a corrupt law enforcement office, unethical prosecution, and unfit defense team.  there are so many glaring examples of injustice at every stage of this, starting with poor Teresa Halbach.  


FUBAR.

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I found Judge David Hamilton’s opinion for the 7th Circuit En Banc ruling that fucked Dassy. 

Spoiler

http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2017/D12-08/C:16-3397:J:Hamilton:aut:T:fnOp:N:2074184:S:0

I love this part about how the Supreme Court says special consideration must be given to juvenile confessions, but Judge Fuckface adds a footnote saying he didn’t believe Dassey’s suggestibility 

 

“The interaction between the suspect’s vulnerabilities and the police tactics may signal coercion even in the absence of physical coercion or threats. The Supreme Court has made it clear that juvenile confessions call for “special care” in evalu‐ ating voluntariness. E.g., Haley v. Ohio, 332 U.S. 596, 599 (1948); see also J.D.B. v. North Carolina, 564 U.S. 261, 277 (2011); In re Gault, 387 U.S. 1, 45 (1967); Gallegos, 370 U.S. at 54. In juvenile cases, the law is particularly concerned with whether a friendly adult is present for or consents to the interrogation. In re Gault, 387 U.S. at 55–56; Gallegos, 370 U.S. at 53–54; Haley, 332 U.S. at 600. Concerns about physical exhaustion, naïveté about friendly police in the context of an adversarial police interview, and intellectual disability also take on heightened importance for assessing whether a juvenile’s will was over‐ borne. 2”


2 We have reservations about the use of “suggestibility” as a factor in this analysis, at least on these facts. Dassey relies heavily on the results of a Gudjonsson Suggestibility Scale test measuring him as more susceptible to fabrication than 95 people out of 100, given slight prodding by ques‐ tioners. A Gudjonsson test is administered by reading a short story aloud to an examinee and then later asking leading questions about it. The more answers that change in response to mild pressure, the more suggestible the examinee is. The administration of this test for people with intellectual disabilities has been criticized because they may have good recall of their own lived experiences but poor recall of facts not relevant to their lives. Paul Willner, Assessment of capacity to participate in court proceedings: a selec‐ tive critique and some recommendations, 17 Psychology, Crime & Law 117, 117 (2011). This criticism mirrors Dassey’s own testimony that his recall was better for lived experiences. In any event, the State’s expert forcefully contested both the administration and meaning of Dassey’s Gudjonsson test at trial. We cannot draw conclusions from these disputed results.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

none of the male judges at the 7th circuit ever gave dassey a chance. they had no interest in even trying to consider the facts. 

Yeah, don't ever find yourself accused of a serious crime.  Because unless you're ultra-rich and can afford the absolute best lawyers, you're fucked six ways from Sunday. 

The entire justice system is built on conflicts of interest.  The police are only interested in finding a perp to pin the crime on whether the evidence is there or not.  The prosecutor is only concerned with getting a conviction and gives zero shits whether or not he's actually prosecuting the right person.  The "experts" the State brings in to bolster their case are only interested in getting paid, which means saying w/e the prosecutor wants them to say.  The judge just wants to get reelected.  Letting people go and tagging DAs for bogus cases isn't going to help that.  Then all the way up through the appeals process, the higher courts have no vested interest in finding out the truth and making sure justice is done.  They're only concerned with assuring the public the legal system is competent and that supposed bad guys are staying locked up.  You think they want to burn down all the idiots below them on the totem pole that hold them up?  Oh, and potentially cost the State millions of dollars in a civil suit by letting someone out of prison that doesn't deserve to be there? 

Don't ever be at the wrong place at the wrong time and find yourself accused of a crime you didn't commit.  And NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE.  If poor Brendan Dassey had had someone to tell him that he'd have been free this entire time.  Instead he just let those corrupt fucks walk him into a long ass prison sentence.

 

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Couldn't have Brenden got up and walked out at anytime? Did they tell him that? His mom is a idiot for letting them talk to him for 3/4 hours alone.

 

Also, that brain wave technology that showed Steven wasn't "storing information" in the part of the brain that stores away secrets was pretty fucking amazing. Not sure any of that shit will stick in court or ever be allowed(kinda like a polygraph) but it was very cool.

 

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4 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Couldn't have Brenden got up and walked out at anytime? Did they tell him that? His mom is a idiot for letting them talk to him for 3/4 hours alone.

 

Also, that brain wave technology that showed Steven wasn't "storing information" in the part of the brain that stores away secrets was pretty fucking amazing. Not sure any of that shit will stick in court or ever be allowed(kinda like a polygraph) but it was very cool.

 

1.  Yes.  They never told him that from what I saw.  Agreed.  

2.  I wasn't that impressed with that part.  Not the actual scientific testing and testimony.  I had a problem with the fact that they used the bloodwork from the back door and how it was made as the baseline for this is what only the killer would know as a comparison - if that makes sense.

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15 hours ago, HouTex said:

I'm not a criminal defense lawyer, but I try civil cases and matters frequently (mostly in federal court) so how can the state try the Dassey and Avery cases under inconsistent theories without the defense in the second case using it to his advantage?  Why wouldn't the prosecutor's statements/arguments/questions be admissions by a party/opponent (the State of Wisconsin) in the second trial?  I am familiar with pleading a case under alternative theories but you always run the risk of confusing the fact finder and/or having your statements and contentions being used against you.  I would think that there's no legal prohibition against the state proceeding under inconsistent theories (but is there an ethical problem with the state doing so?), but the defense in the second case should be able to argue and present evidence to the jury that the state has changed its story.  And perhaps the defendant in the first case ought to be able to use the change in position in an appeal.  Were they prevented from doing so in this case, or did they drop the ball?

The prosecution’s jury argument and opening statements are not evidence, so legally, there is nothing admissible about them.

Ethically, if I was a prosecutor, I would never take contradictory positions like this.  However, the rules on this are well-settled.  They can do exactly what they did here.  The solution is to stop voting for any mouth-breather running for DA or judge who just jumps around yelling “TOUGH ON CRIME!!!!” non-stop.

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The prosecution’s jury argument and opening statements are not evidence, so legally, there is nothing admissible about them.
Ethically, if I was a prosecutor, I would never take contradictory positions like this.  However, the rules on this are well-settled.  They can do exactly what they did here.  The solution is to stop voting for any mouth-breather running for DA or judge who just jumps around yelling “TOUGH ON CRIME!!!!” non-stop.

Well, they ought to be admissions by the state and therefore evidence in the second case. I agree they are not evidence in the first case.
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I know over generalization and hyperbole is a tradition here (I do it too), but some of you need to meet some more DAs. I've known several Harris County DAs and Assistant DAs and they all have been great people. Some are now defense attorneys. I'm sure there are some bad guys out there (like the scumbags involved in the Dassey/Avery cases) but the vast majority are doing good work. I know one who personally went to Huntsville to get a guy out of prison that he had prosecuted based on several eye witnesses who later were proven to have lied during the trial.

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54 minutes ago, lateshow said:

I gotta tell you, I'm just not seeing it guys. 

like pepper said, her confidence, her intelligence, her drive; all of that is sexy to me. something about a girl with intelligence, confidence, and book smarts that makes her sexier than her physical appearance. 

edit: like a real life kim wexler. kim is no smoke show, and yet we all want to bang her. same thing here. 

Edited by Goo Punch
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1 hour ago, Goo Punch said:

like pepper said, her confidence, her intelligence, her drive; all of that is sexy to me. something about a girl with intelligence, confidence, and book smarts that makes her sexier than her physical appearance. 

edit: like a real life kim wexler. kim is no smoke show, and yet we all want to bang her. same thing here. 

yeah

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