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Posted

I attended the game in College Station. I came away pretty impressed with Quinn. I could see what he was seeing on the field. He typically made good decisions. Then I rewatched the game on ESPN and I can see why folks are a bit unhappy. The defense wasn’t going to let us lose that game, but Quinn was trying pretty hard to sell. He had a couple turnovers, but he could have easily had another Georgia type day. There’s not another starter on the team who would be starting with this lack of consistency. Gbenda got benched because he was good for two assignment busts a game. Campbell has been benched multiple times throughout the season. I’d like to see Auburn next if he can’t get it together.

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Posted
1 minute ago, WinningIsHard said:

ball to the outside shoulder there and wingo can catch that....I have no idea where it was headed before it was tipped though to be fair. I don't really understand why wingo fell down though either. Just a bizarre play all around honestly after watching it a few times. DJ campbell is not a very smart OL, he might be physical but he misses a lot. 

Making that throw in the pocket is extremely dangerous and foolish. If he's not rolling out, that route shouldn't be even considered as an option IMO. 

 

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

True, but hate the playcall as well. 1-on-1 that needs to be a route and throw into the endzone. 

 

Or RTDB considering we were averaging 6+ YPC.  It was 3rd and 4.  Run it twice in a row.  If you don't get it that Aggy offense isn't going 95 yards to score a TD on our defense.

I don't get the willingness to run it down their throat to close out a game, but not to score a TD.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Nah, the route was undercut it's a pick either way....Should have just ate it and settled for a FG.

Hard to know if it is picked, but it is more about the situation. No need to take that chance given the game situation. It OK to throw it out of bounds and kick the FG. Quinn is having way too many turnovers this year.. 11 turnovers in 342 touches. That is a turnover every 31.1 touches for perspective Beck is at 34.9 touches

Edited by Codaxx
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Posted
1 minute ago, Park Gothic said:

 

 

Are these controversial statements? You could argue that Sanders is a better pure receiver than Helm but (1) that's debatable and (2) Helm is the better TE over all. And Williams is his third season and his first as a starter and is already at least as good as Jones was as a 5th year. 

Sanders was most def better than Helm as a receiver before and after the catch which is the important part when you make the comment about a dropoff in receiving talent. Current Cam Williams is not as good as 5th yr Jones. He is projected to be better but the majority of our protection gaffs come from his side. Jones not only held his own but kept Campbell straightened out with the protection scheme.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

True, but hate the playcall as well. 1-on-1 that needs to be a route and throw into the endzone. 

 

I hated the play call, but I was hoping to continue running it down their throats. 3rd and 4, run the ball and if you get 2-3 yards you have a decision to make, otherwise take your points after a long and demoralizing drive. There wasn't a single option open on that play so the best case scenario was going to be Quinn throwing it away, instead he made a terrible decision & it got tipped to boot. I texted my brother that hopefully that was Quinn's last wtf turnover.. I was wrong. It seems he just can't help himself.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Yes.  We need to surround Quinn with more talent.   We’re all rooting for Quinn and it’s ok to like arch as well. 
 

but the last two games he’s scored more points for our opponent than for us.  

Now he scored more points for our opponents than he did us. Lol. Imagine thinking this is true.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Codaxx said:

Hard to know if it is picked, but it is more about the situation. No need to take that chance given the game situation. It OK to throw it out of bounds and kick the FG. Quinn is having way too many turnovers this year.. 11 turnovers in 342 touches. That is a turnover every 31.1 touches for perspective Beck is at 34.9 touches

If you pause the video at the 3 second mark, when wingo makes his cut Lee isn't ready for it and he loses all his momentum forward. His ass sinks down and he's on his heels, quinn releases the ball at that moment. I think it was all going good until the ball was tipped. All quinn hate aside we need to teach our OL to fucking punish people for jumping/leaning up in the air every time they attempt it. It's absurd that cam didn't fuck that guy up when he shifted his balance to lift up in the air. 

Posted
4 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Hard to know if it is picked, but it is more about the situation. No need to take that chance given the game situation. It OK to throw it out of bounds and kick the FG. Quinn is having way too many turnovers this year.. 11 turnovers in 342 touches. That is a turnover every 31.1 touches for perspective Beck is at 34.9 touches

Context matters. Beck is throwing picks. Quinn is getting balls batted and fumbling from getting hit. He has had two turnovers all year that aren't from those scenarios. Beck barely gets touched back there and is simply making bad reads/decisions.

Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

This isn't an Arch vs Quinn contest where you have to take sides and stay there. There has been no QB that played at Texas that I spent time dragging through the mud like yall do Quinn. I learned my lesson with Simms. Fan dislike spreads and if you think it doesn't affect the players you are wrong. That is why I hate it so much. The only reason people are like that towards Quinn is because Arch is here.

Its frustrating because i just want to be critical and make honest assessments of Quinn but its hard to do without looking like a hater. I think we can win with him i just wish he could play a little better. And yes the throw to Blue in the end zone was dime as fuck but also a tad lucky.

 

I didnt really take a "side" on Simms/Applewhite stuff because neither guy was like outstanding or anything. But i do love Simms stuff as an analyst. He is really entertaining with Florio.

Edited by Pam Cummings
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Posted
1 minute ago, WinningIsHard said:

If you pause the video at the 3 second mark, when wingo makes his cut Lee isn't ready for it and he loses all his momentum forward. His ass sinks down and he's on his heels, quinn releases the ball at that moment. I think it was all going good until the ball was tipped. All quinn hate aside we need to teach our OL to fucking punish people for jumping/leaning up in the air every time they attempt it. It's absurd that cam didn't fuck that guy up when he shifted his balance to lift up in the air. 

Due to pressure/footwork/injury, he had nothing on that throw even if it wasn't tipped. You're asking any QB to be incredibly accurate with perfect anticipation to make that route work. Bad call, bad decision by Quinn. 

He saw what looked like LB running free up the middle and just kind of panicked. 

 

Posted
1 minute ago, Pam Cummings said:

Its frustrating because i just want to be critical and make honest assessments of Quinn but its hard to do without looking like a hater. I think we can win with him i just wish he could play a little better. And yes the throw to Blue in the end zone was dime as fuck but also a tad lucky.

We can tell the difference between the people being critical of a play and just being haters. The haters disappear when Quinn plays well but come roaring back when Quinn makes a mistake. Check the game threads. As far as that throw goes when a DB has his back to you, is in trail, and it's a relatively short toss you give your guy a chance.

Posted
18 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Here we go. Now Helm is better than Sanders and Williams is better than Jones.

 

7 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Sanders was most def better than Helm as a receiver before and after the catch which is the important part when you make the comment about a dropoff in receiving talent. Current Cam Williams is not as good as 5th yr Jones. He is projected to be better but the majority of our protection gaffs come from his side. Jones not only held his own but kept Campbell straightened out with the protection scheme.

Helm is definitely better than Sanders. And as far as after the catch goes, have you not seen Helm hurdle a defender almost every fuckin game? Sanders had a bit more shake and bake in his routes, but god damn Helm is the man with the ball in his hands. And Helm can actually block this year, which is something Sanders barely aspired to do. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Thatguy said:

As far as that throw goes when a DB has his back to you, is in trail, and it's a relatively short toss you give your guy a chance.

No, you don't. Not in that scenario and position on the field. 

 

Posted
18 minutes ago, Wiler77 said:

Or RTDB considering we were averaging 6+ YPC.  It was 3rd and 4.  Run it twice in a row.  If you don't get it that Aggy offense isn't going 95 yards to score a TD on our defense.

I don't get the willingness to run it down their throat to close out a game, but not to score a TD.

A huge problem with both of Ewers' turnovers against A&M was playcalling. As you said, RTDB in the red zone. Why are we going for a low percentage perimeter pass? It could have worked but for the tip, but I still don't like it. 

But playcalling on the second turnover (the fumble) was inexcusable. We have a hobbled QB who was not a great runner to begin with, why are we asking him to do zone read in the red zone? Did Sark think Manning was in? Makes no sense. That doesn't excuse how careless Ewers was being with the football, but the problem started with the playcall. 

14 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Sanders was most def better than Helm as a receiver before and after the catch which is the important part when you make the comment about a dropoff in receiving talent. Current Cam Williams is not as good as 5th yr Jones. He is projected to be better but the majority of our protection gaffs come from his side. Jones not only held his own but kept Campbell straightened out with the protection scheme.

I don't agree - in 2023, Sanders had 45 receptions for 682 yards and 2 TDs. His longest reception (catch and run) was 50 yards. This season, Helm has 48 receptions for 600 yards and 5 TDs. His longest reception was 49 yards. 

Sanders was a great receiving TE, but his numbers aren't materially better than Helm's. On top of that, Helm has been absolutely mission critical in giving Ewers an outlet on tough downs. Ewers clearly trusts Helm and feels more confident throwing him the ball. In other words, I don't think the numbers support the argument that Sanders was better and I don't think the eye test supports it either. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Park Gothic said:

A huge problem with both of Ewers' turnovers against A&M was playcalling. As you said, RTDB in the red zone. Why are we going for a low percentage perimeter pass? It could have worked but for the tip, but I still don't like it. 

But playcalling on the second turnover (the fumble) was inexcusable. We have a hobbled QB who was not a great runner to begin with, why are we asking him to do zone read in the red zone? Did Sark think Manning was in? Makes no sense. That doesn't excuse how careless Ewers was being with the football, but the problem started with the playcall. 

I don't agree - in 2023, Sanders had 45 receptions for 682 yards and 2 TDs. His longest reception (catch and run) was 50 yards. This season, Helm has 48 receptions for 600 yards and 5 TDs. His longest reception was 49 yards. 

Sanders was a great receiving TE, but his numbers aren't materially better than Helm's. On top of that, Helm has been absolutely mission critical in giving Ewers an outlet on tough downs. Ewers clearly trusts Helm and feels more confident throwing him the ball. In other words, I don't think the numbers support the argument that Sanders was better and I don't think the eye test supports it either. 

The fumble was a called RPO (looking to hit Juan Davis in the flat off a split zone action). Quinn pulled it and took off.

 

Edited by Codaxx
Posted
3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

 

Helm is definitely better than Sanders. And as far as after the catch goes, have you not seen Helm hurdle a defender almost every fuckin game? Sanders had a bit more shake and bake in his routes, but god damn Helm is the man with the ball in his hands. And Helm can actually block this year, which is something Sanders barely aspired to do. 

45 for 682  15.14 yrds per  2 TDs 

48 for 600  12.50 yrds per 5 TDs(and the year isn't done)

One of these receivers was an afterthought and the other one is leading the team in targets and yards. Once again the comment was made that there should've been an expected drop in offensive productivity with the drop in ability in pass catching. We look for Helm first and scheme a lot of routes for him. Therefore Helm is far more productive but as a receiver Sanders was more talented.  Mitchell and Worthy had 850 and 100 yards. Our highest receiver this year has 576.

 

Posted
1 minute ago, Codaxx said:

The fumble was a called RPO. Quinn pulled it and took off.

Are you sure? I will readily acknowledge that you know more about X's and O's than I do, but it looked like Ewers was reading how the DE played the RB and pulled the ball when he saw the DE move inside. To me, that looks like a zone read, where the QB pulls to run, not pass. I remember that one of our receivers was drifting out there, but he didn't seem like he was running a route. If it was a route, it was one of the most low-effort bullshit routes I've ever seen.

But again, I recognize that I may be missing something. 

Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Park Gothic said:

Are you sure? I will readily acknowledge that you know more about X's and O's than I do, but it looked like Ewers was reading how the DE played the RB and pulled the ball when he saw the DE move inside. To me, that looks like a zone read, where the QB pulls to run, not pass. I remember that one of our receivers was drifting out there, but he didn't seem like he was running a route. If it was a route, it was one of the most low-effort bullshit routes I've ever seen.

But again, I recognize that I may be missing something. 

Look at Juan Davis. Instead of looking to block the end, he is going into the Flat and looking back at Quinn. At no point does he look to block anyone. I guess in theory you could say it is Triple option.

Edited by Codaxx
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Posted
42 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Sanders was most def better than Helm as a receiver before and after the catch which is the important part when you make the comment about a dropoff in receiving talent.

Is he though? I never saw JT working defenders like Helm does. He might be better after the catch but even that is debatable because Helm has made multiple defenders miss to gain more yards this year and move the chains. Helm is a btter blocker and has a much larger catch radius than JT. You're overselling the fuck out JT while underselling the fuck outta Helm.

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

45 for 682  15.14 yrds per  2 TDs 

48 for 600  12.50 yrds per 5 TDs(and the year isn't done)

One of these receivers was an afterthought and the other one is leading the team in targets and yards. Once again the comment was made that there should've been an expected drop in offensive productivity with the drop in ability in pass catching. We look for Helm first and scheme a lot of routes for him. Therefore Helm is far more productive but as a receiver Sanders was more talented.  Mitchell and Worthy had 850 and 100 yards. Our highest receiver this year has 576.

 

I bet you Helm has better combine numbers than JT....

Posted (edited)

JT Sanders was/is awesome. I think the vast majority of us were taken by surprise by how dominant Helm has looked all year.  Regarding the typical responsibilities and expectations of a Tight End, Helm has been better. It's been huge for us. He's a Kelce starter kit and I expects some NFL organization will fall in love with him and take him early (2nd round).

Edited by Hank Kingsley
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Posted (edited)

Helm is much better after the catch than Sanders was.  He's faster and more agile.  Never would have guessed we would manage to upgrade the position.

Edited by kevwun
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Posted
36 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Helm is much better after the catch than Sanders was.  He's faster and more agile.  Never would have guessed we would manage to upgrade the position.

Our trajectory there could also still be trending up which is wild

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Posted
2 hours ago, kevwun said:

Helm is much better after the catch than Sanders was.  He's faster and more agile.  Never would have guessed we would manage to upgrade the position.

He is not faster and more agile lol.  Come on now.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

He is not faster and more agile lol.  Come on now.

I bet he runs a faster 40....some of you are acting like JT was an elite athletic speciment.

 

Image

 

He's a little faster than the average 40 time of NFL tight ends(4.7)

 

Didn't do bench or 3 cone at combine....

 

For reference this is the KSU TE from last year:

Image

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
4 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I bet he runs a faster 40....some of you are acting like JT was an elite athletic speciment.

 

Image

 

He's a little faster than the average 40 time of NFL tight ends(4.7)

 

Didn't do bench or 3 cone at combine....

 

Post the results for Helm when he hits the combine.  I think he'll be a better NFL player, but I don't think he's faster or more athletic.  Great hands though.

Just now, kevwun said:

Sanders had a pretty bad combine, so I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Helm tests better.

Let's bet.  $100 to charity/church or your choice.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I bet he runs a faster 40....some of you are acting like JT was an elite athletic speciment.

 

Image

 

He's a little faster than the average 40 time of NFL tight ends(4.7)

 

Didn't do bench or 3 cone at combine....

 

For reference this is the KSU TE from last year:

Image

Sanders' athletic testing at the pro day didn't go quite as well. He posted below-average numbers in the vertical (30 inches) and bench press (eight reps), and his broad jump (9 feet, 6 inches) and shuttle time (4.32 seconds) were merely average.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2024-nfl-draft-texas-jatavion-sanders-explains-poor-pro-day-testing-lists-which-star-tight-ends-he-studies/

Argument is silly. There has not been any noticeable drop from the TE position.

Posted
3 hours ago, WinningIsHard said:

ball to the outside shoulder there and wingo can catch that....I have no idea where it was headed before it was tipped though to be fair. I don't really understand why wingo fell down though either. Just a bizarre play all around honestly after watching it a few times. DJ campbell is not a very smart OL, he might be physical but he misses a lot. 

Wingo fell down because he's trying to make his body do the impossible ... come back to the ball he was expecting to be thrown further his way. A body in motion tends to stay in motion and his body and feet were not in the right position to do anything about it.

Posted
2 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Major Applewhite might be the only QB who is a bigger pussy than Quinn Ewers.

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Posted
Yes.  We need to surround Quinn with more talent.   We’re all rooting for Quinn and it’s ok to like arch as well. 
 
but the last two games he’s scored more points for our opponent than for us.  

He has also made enough plays for us to win both games.
Posted
5 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Imagine a QB losing his two best running backs, NFL RT, and 4 pass catchers to the NFL and not expecting a loss of offensive production. Make it make sense.

You blamed those guys last year for his issues.

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Posted
1 hour ago, hobbes2702 said:

You blamed those guys last year for his issues.

No you guys blamed him for THEIR issues. You should try following the NFL this year.

https://www.si.com/nfl/chiefs/gm-report/why-patrick-mahomes-xavier-worthy-cant-connect-on-the-deep-ball-and-how-to-fix-it

https://kckingdom.com/chiefs-already-receiving-huge-blowback-2024-draft-pick-01jebs4kqtas

https://www.colts.com/news/colts-wr-adonai-mitchell-reggie-wayne-relationship-rookie-success-michael-pittman-alec-pierce

 

Those look awfully familiar to the problems we saw here right? Sometimes the correct answer is the easiest answer.

Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Jim Carrey Laughing GIF
 

Yea it was the NFL WRs fault. I’m pretty sure you didn’t read that first article you posted lol. Or the second lol. You should though. You might learn that it’s ok to be critical of a QB despite team success

Edited by hobbes2702
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Posted
1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Jim Carrey Laughing GIF
 

Yea it was the NFL WRs fault.

No one said all. I did point out times it was and you guys said "no way". Now that Mahomes is experiencing the same issues what is it? Suddenly Mahomes can't hit the broad side of the barn but he "must have regressed" right? Or could it be X gets rerouted easily and it makes it hard to time him up. You know, like we talked about when he was here.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Are you blaming Xavier Worthy for Patrick Mahomes' struggles? 

The article talks about the incredibly low target vs catch rate for Worthy. Try reading the articles.

Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

No one said all. I did point out times it was and you guys said "no way". Now that Mahomes is experiencing the same issues what is it? Suddenly Mahomes can't hit the broad side of the barn but he "must have regressed" right? Or could it be X gets rerouted easily and it makes it hard to time him up. You know, like we talked about when he was here.

He couldn’t hit the deep ball last year either. The deep ball has been his biggest inconsistency during his career. Read the articles you fucking posted lol

6 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

The article talks about the incredibly low target vs catch rate for Worthy. Try reading the articles.

Now do the why.

Seriously why is this so difficult for you. You bend over backwards and make insane nonsensical arguments instead of pointing out the obvious. It’s always the rest of the teams fault.

Edited by hobbes2702
Posted
3 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I bet he runs a faster 40....some of you are acting like JT was an elite athletic speciment.

 

Image

 

He's a little faster than the average 40 time of NFL tight ends(4.7)

 

Didn't do bench or 3 cone at combine....

 

For reference this is the KSU TE from last year:

Image

What's funny about you guys is you forget these guys were on the same team and literally in the same recruiting class. So the comparison has already happened. Last year both were juniors and our coach, who has a good eye for talent, chose Sanders as the tight end to catch passes. Everyday those guys were competing in front of the same sets of eyes and Helm was designated the blocking tight end. So miss with all the who will be better in the future stuff.

Posted
Just now, Thatguy said:

What's funny about you guys is you forget these guys were on the same team and literally in the same recruiting class. So the comparison has already happened. Last year both were juniors and our coach, who has a good eye for talent, chose Sanders as the tight end to catch passes. Everyday those guys were competing in front of the same sets of eyes and Helm was designated the blocking tight end. So miss with all the who will be better in the future stuff.

Helm is not only a better tight end he’s going to have a better pro career because he’s better. Just because he was on a different developmental path doesn’t make him not better. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

The article talks about the incredibly low target vs catch rate for Worthy. Try reading the articles.

I did. First of all, Mahomes was struggling last season with the deep ball. Obviously it's one reason they drafted Worthy, but also Rashee Rice being out makes things harder for everyone. And the first article puts plenty of blame on Mahomes. 

You have wrapped yourself in such a knot about Quinn that you're digging up articles to deflect criticism onto former Horns in the NFL. It's ridiculous. 

 

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