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Posted
17 hours ago, BLKNSTY said:


Israelis, child sex crimes on US soil, and the ability to get away scott-free with the help of the US gov is basically a right enshrined in the constitution.

There is almost a total US media blackout on this situation. Completely captured by Israeli interests.

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Posted

Historically in favor of US economic support for Israel.  Now, I hope we never give one more American dollar to the country.  They can stand or fall on their own and defend themselves without our help.  I expect that new generations of US politicians coming up will feel the same way and Israel's status as our ally will shift dramatically in popular opinion.  The next generation of US citizens and their representatives will have a much starker memory of the country's current actions than they do of their grandparents' memories of what happened in WWII.  

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Posted
21 minutes ago, Disco Strangler said:

Historically in favor of US economic support for Israel.  Now, I hope we never give one more American dollar to the country.  They can stand or fall on their own and defend themselves without our help.  I expect that new generations of US politicians coming up will feel the same way and Israel's status as our ally will shift dramatically in popular opinion.  The next generation of US citizens and their representatives will have a much starker memory of the country's current actions than they do of their grandparents' memories of what happened in WWII.  

I was generally in favor until Netanyahu's [2nd] government. If they want to actually behave like an ally, stop interfering in our elections, stop doing apartheid/genocide/whatever other war crimes you can name, stop brazenly and illegally stealing Palestinian land and homes, I'm all for treating them like one.

If they stopped doing that shit, they would find out really quickly how amenable their neighbors actually are to having normalized relations. If they don't, and they lose our support, they will find out really quickly just how alone they have made themselves in the world.

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Posted
42 minutes ago, Disco Strangler said:

Historically in favor of US economic support for Israel.  Now, I hope we never give one more American dollar to the country.  They can stand or fall on their own and defend themselves without our help.  I expect that new generations of US politicians coming up will feel the same way and Israel's status as our ally will shift dramatically in popular opinion.  The next generation of US citizens and their representatives will have a much starker memory of the country's current actions than they do of their grandparents' memories of what happened in WWII.  

Agree, plus, Israel is not some developing nation anymore. There is no reason to trust-fund baby a 35 year old. In this environment and geopolitical reality, Israel can more than defend their own interests with their own funding. 

Now, if anything materially changes in that reality (e.g. The Arab Nations band together to wipe out Israel or something) then that sentiment of economic support can be revisited. Odds are very unlikely moving forward, however.

Posted
59 minutes ago, Disco Strangler said:

Historically in favor of US economic support for Israel.  Now, I hope we never give one more American dollar to the country.  They can stand or fall on their own and defend themselves without our help.  I expect that new generations of US politicians coming up will feel the same way and Israel's status as our ally will shift dramatically in popular opinion.  The next generation of US citizens and their representatives will have a much starker memory of the country's current actions than they do of their grandparents' memories of what happened in WWII.  

It's not just "memories of what happened in WWII" that historically justify our sponsorship of Israel.  There were certain Cold-War realities that made it advisable.  Syria, Egypt, and Iraq were in the Soviet camp during much of the Cold War.  Israel served as a necessary Western counterweight in the Levant.

But the Cold War has been over for more than 30 years.  And while we still want to restrict Russian influence in the Eastern Mediterranean, Isreal isn't exactly the best vehicle (or even a good vehicle) toward accomplishing that.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

It's not just "memories of what happened in WWII" that historically justify our sponsorship of Israel.

We never gave a fuck about this, and neither did the British. It was always strategic.

(I agree with you, just making a note of that)

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Posted
8 hours ago, Disco Strangler said:

Historically in favor of US economic support for Israel.  Now, I hope we never give one more American dollar to the country.  They can stand or fall on their own and defend themselves without our help.  I expect that new generations of US politicians coming up will feel the same way and Israel's status as our ally will shift dramatically in popular opinion.  The next generation of US citizens and their representatives will have a much starker memory of the country's current actions than they do of their grandparents' memories of what happened in WWII.  

 

Was it memories of WWII, or was it that Israel was the only pro-western democracy in the Middle East? An argument could be made for NATO Turkey, but they have been back-sliding since the 90s.

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Posted
1 hour ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

Was it memories of WWII, or was it that Israel was the only pro-western democracy in the Middle East? An argument could be made for NATO Turkey, but they have been back-sliding since the 90s.

Since when did the United States give a fuck whether an ally was a "democracy?"  Speaking strictly of the Middle East, our staunchest ally going back to World War II has been Saudi Arabia, which is one of the very few countries in the world that makes no effort to style itself as a democracy or a republic.  China calls itself a "people's republic," though it's anything but.  North Korea protests too much, styling itself a Democratic People's Repubic.  Saudi Arabia is like, "nah--fuck all that.  We're an absolute monarchy goddamnit."  

I added that last part.

But they're not alone.  So is the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.  So is the UAE.  And Bahrain.  And Kuwait.  And Qatar.  and Morocco.  And before their absolute monarchies were overthrown, the Imperial State of Iran and the Ethiopian Empire were staunch American allies in the Cold War.  And we won't even talk about some of the less savory dictatorships--I'm looking at you, Egypt and Pakistan.

But it's not just the Middle East.  Our love of dictators in Latin America is (in)famous.  Just as notorious is our record in Asia, from the collapsed (South Vietnam) to the deposed (South Korea, the Philippines), to the still-going-strong (Singapore)--we fucking love our dictators.

Nah, man--it's all the "pro-Western" bit.  Or at least it was while the Cold War was going on.  But now that justification is gone.

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Posted
39 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Since when did the United States give a fuck whether an ally was a "democracy?"  Speaking strictly of the Middle East, our staunchest ally going back to World War II has been Saudi Arabia, which is one of the very few countries in the world that makes no effort to style itself as a democracy or a republic.  China calls itself a "people's republic," though it's anything but.  North Korea protests too much, styling itself a Democratic People's Repubic.  Saudi Arabia is like, "nah--fuck all that.  We're an absolute monarchy goddamnit."  

I added that last part.

But they're not alone.  So is the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.  So is the UAE.  And Bahrain.  And Kuwait.  And Qatar.  and Morocco.  And before their absolute monarchies were overthrown, the Imperial State of Iran and the Ethiopian Empire were staunch American allies in the Cold War.  And we won't even talk about some of the less savory dictatorships--I'm looking at you, Egypt and Pakistan.

But it's not just the Middle East.  Our love of dictators in Latin America is (in)famous.  Just as notorious is our record in Asia, from the collapsed (South Vietnam) to the deposed (South Korea, the Philippines), to the still-going-strong (Singapore)--we fucking love our dictators.

Nah, man--it's all the "pro-Western" bit.  Or at least it was while the Cold War was going on.  But now that justification is gone.

Thanks for taking apart that absolutely baby-brained take in a more tactful way than I would have.

Posted

That hospital they bombed and killed a bunch of doctors and journalists with multiple air strikes?

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-gaza-war-08-26-2025-0f1be1b4e3231e0cbec54ce837cc6af9

They just HAD to blow up a hamas-controlled camera!

 

DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — The Israeli military said Tuesday that its double strike on a Gaza hospital that killed 20 people targeted what it believed was a Hamas surveillance camera. But the first strike killed a cameraman from the Reuters news agency doing a live television shot, according to witnesses and health officials.

The military released its initial findings into the strike, offering no immediate explanation for striking twice and no evidence for an assertion that six of the dead were militants, including two who were identified by their employers as a health care worker at the hospital and an emergency services driver. The dead also included five journalists.

The military said the back-to-back strikes on southern Gaza’s largest hospital were ordered because soldiers believed militants were using the camera to observe Israeli forces. But its account appeared to contradict the sequence of events in Monday’s attack on Nasser Hospital.

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Posted
45 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That hospital they bombed and killed a bunch of doctors and journalists with multiple air strikes?

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-gaza-war-08-26-2025-0f1be1b4e3231e0cbec54ce837cc6af9

They just HAD to blow up a hamas-controlled camera!

 

DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — The Israeli military said Tuesday that its double strike on a Gaza hospital that killed 20 people targeted what it believed was a Hamas surveillance camera. But the first strike killed a cameraman from the Reuters news agency doing a live television shot, according to witnesses and health officials.

The military released its initial findings into the strike, offering no immediate explanation for striking twice and no evidence for an assertion that six of the dead were militants, including two who were identified by their employers as a health care worker at the hospital and an emergency services driver. The dead also included five journalists.

The military said the back-to-back strikes on southern Gaza’s largest hospital were ordered because soldiers believed militants were using the camera to observe Israeli forces. But its account appeared to contradict the sequence of events in Monday’s attack on Nasser Hospital.

"Yes, each of the six dozen times we've double tapped journalists was an accident and how dare you suggest otherwise!" he says while loading a mag into a gun, chambering a round, and aiming it at your head.

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Posted
On 8/25/2025 at 9:58 AM, Vegas64 said:

Agree, plus, Israel is not some developing nation anymore. There is no reason to trust-fund baby a 35 year old. In this environment and geopolitical reality, Israel can more than defend their own interests with their own funding. 

Now, if anything materially changes in that reality (e.g. The Arab Nations band together to wipe out Israel or something) then that sentiment of economic support can be revisited. Odds are very unlikely moving forward, however.

They have nukes.  They easily handled Iran, a nation 10 times their size and with a large military industrial complex.  Nobody at the nation-state level is going to seriously threaten them.  

Their biggest danger is pretty much self-inflicted or self-fulfilling at this point - every time they kill an innocent person, they are creating one or more people, whether it be a parent, child, spouse, sibling, cousin, friend of the dead person, who want to see Israel punished. More than a few are willing to risk their lives in that pursuit. That could take the form of the stereotypical "person strapping a bomb to themselves and setting it off in a crowd" or more likely it could be somebody who is in a position to pass along information that winds up in the hands of Hamas, whether it be in an office somewhere (perhaps a janitor) who comes across sensitive information, or they work/live in a geographically sensitive area and can see things like Israeli troop movements. Or they could function as a courier, since Hamas has learned to be more careful about their electronic devices.  In short, Israel is creating new enemies every day, and for these new enemies it's personal - it's not some religious nutcase sitting in a Mosque who is talking shit to gain power over large numbers of people, it's a person who has lost a loved one or friend to the actions of Israel.

I can speculate all day long about Netanyahu's short-term goals, but there is clearly no long-term goal of peace for Israel.

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