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Posted
17 hours ago, BLKNSTY said:


Israelis, child sex crimes on US soil, and the ability to get away scott-free with the help of the US gov is basically a right enshrined in the constitution.

There is almost a total US media blackout on this situation. Completely captured by Israeli interests.

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Posted

Historically in favor of US economic support for Israel.  Now, I hope we never give one more American dollar to the country.  They can stand or fall on their own and defend themselves without our help.  I expect that new generations of US politicians coming up will feel the same way and Israel's status as our ally will shift dramatically in popular opinion.  The next generation of US citizens and their representatives will have a much starker memory of the country's current actions than they do of their grandparents' memories of what happened in WWII.  

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Posted
21 minutes ago, Disco Strangler said:

Historically in favor of US economic support for Israel.  Now, I hope we never give one more American dollar to the country.  They can stand or fall on their own and defend themselves without our help.  I expect that new generations of US politicians coming up will feel the same way and Israel's status as our ally will shift dramatically in popular opinion.  The next generation of US citizens and their representatives will have a much starker memory of the country's current actions than they do of their grandparents' memories of what happened in WWII.  

I was generally in favor until Netanyahu's [2nd] government. If they want to actually behave like an ally, stop interfering in our elections, stop doing apartheid/genocide/whatever other war crimes you can name, stop brazenly and illegally stealing Palestinian land and homes, I'm all for treating them like one.

If they stopped doing that shit, they would find out really quickly how amenable their neighbors actually are to having normalized relations. If they don't, and they lose our support, they will find out really quickly just how alone they have made themselves in the world.

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Posted
42 minutes ago, Disco Strangler said:

Historically in favor of US economic support for Israel.  Now, I hope we never give one more American dollar to the country.  They can stand or fall on their own and defend themselves without our help.  I expect that new generations of US politicians coming up will feel the same way and Israel's status as our ally will shift dramatically in popular opinion.  The next generation of US citizens and their representatives will have a much starker memory of the country's current actions than they do of their grandparents' memories of what happened in WWII.  

Agree, plus, Israel is not some developing nation anymore. There is no reason to trust-fund baby a 35 year old. In this environment and geopolitical reality, Israel can more than defend their own interests with their own funding. 

Now, if anything materially changes in that reality (e.g. The Arab Nations band together to wipe out Israel or something) then that sentiment of economic support can be revisited. Odds are very unlikely moving forward, however.

Posted
59 minutes ago, Disco Strangler said:

Historically in favor of US economic support for Israel.  Now, I hope we never give one more American dollar to the country.  They can stand or fall on their own and defend themselves without our help.  I expect that new generations of US politicians coming up will feel the same way and Israel's status as our ally will shift dramatically in popular opinion.  The next generation of US citizens and their representatives will have a much starker memory of the country's current actions than they do of their grandparents' memories of what happened in WWII.  

It's not just "memories of what happened in WWII" that historically justify our sponsorship of Israel.  There were certain Cold-War realities that made it advisable.  Syria, Egypt, and Iraq were in the Soviet camp during much of the Cold War.  Israel served as a necessary Western counterweight in the Levant.

But the Cold War has been over for more than 30 years.  And while we still want to restrict Russian influence in the Eastern Mediterranean, Isreal isn't exactly the best vehicle (or even a good vehicle) toward accomplishing that.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

It's not just "memories of what happened in WWII" that historically justify our sponsorship of Israel.

We never gave a fuck about this, and neither did the British. It was always strategic.

(I agree with you, just making a note of that)

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Posted
8 hours ago, Disco Strangler said:

Historically in favor of US economic support for Israel.  Now, I hope we never give one more American dollar to the country.  They can stand or fall on their own and defend themselves without our help.  I expect that new generations of US politicians coming up will feel the same way and Israel's status as our ally will shift dramatically in popular opinion.  The next generation of US citizens and their representatives will have a much starker memory of the country's current actions than they do of their grandparents' memories of what happened in WWII.  

 

Was it memories of WWII, or was it that Israel was the only pro-western democracy in the Middle East? An argument could be made for NATO Turkey, but they have been back-sliding since the 90s.

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Posted
1 hour ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

Was it memories of WWII, or was it that Israel was the only pro-western democracy in the Middle East? An argument could be made for NATO Turkey, but they have been back-sliding since the 90s.

Since when did the United States give a fuck whether an ally was a "democracy?"  Speaking strictly of the Middle East, our staunchest ally going back to World War II has been Saudi Arabia, which is one of the very few countries in the world that makes no effort to style itself as a democracy or a republic.  China calls itself a "people's republic," though it's anything but.  North Korea protests too much, styling itself a Democratic People's Repubic.  Saudi Arabia is like, "nah--fuck all that.  We're an absolute monarchy goddamnit."  

I added that last part.

But they're not alone.  So is the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.  So is the UAE.  And Bahrain.  And Kuwait.  And Qatar.  and Morocco.  And before their absolute monarchies were overthrown, the Imperial State of Iran and the Ethiopian Empire were staunch American allies in the Cold War.  And we won't even talk about some of the less savory dictatorships--I'm looking at you, Egypt and Pakistan.

But it's not just the Middle East.  Our love of dictators in Latin America is (in)famous.  Just as notorious is our record in Asia, from the collapsed (South Vietnam) to the deposed (South Korea, the Philippines), to the still-going-strong (Singapore)--we fucking love our dictators.

Nah, man--it's all the "pro-Western" bit.  Or at least it was while the Cold War was going on.  But now that justification is gone.

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Posted
39 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Since when did the United States give a fuck whether an ally was a "democracy?"  Speaking strictly of the Middle East, our staunchest ally going back to World War II has been Saudi Arabia, which is one of the very few countries in the world that makes no effort to style itself as a democracy or a republic.  China calls itself a "people's republic," though it's anything but.  North Korea protests too much, styling itself a Democratic People's Repubic.  Saudi Arabia is like, "nah--fuck all that.  We're an absolute monarchy goddamnit."  

I added that last part.

But they're not alone.  So is the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan.  So is the UAE.  And Bahrain.  And Kuwait.  And Qatar.  and Morocco.  And before their absolute monarchies were overthrown, the Imperial State of Iran and the Ethiopian Empire were staunch American allies in the Cold War.  And we won't even talk about some of the less savory dictatorships--I'm looking at you, Egypt and Pakistan.

But it's not just the Middle East.  Our love of dictators in Latin America is (in)famous.  Just as notorious is our record in Asia, from the collapsed (South Vietnam) to the deposed (South Korea, the Philippines), to the still-going-strong (Singapore)--we fucking love our dictators.

Nah, man--it's all the "pro-Western" bit.  Or at least it was while the Cold War was going on.  But now that justification is gone.

Thanks for taking apart that absolutely baby-brained take in a more tactful way than I would have.

Posted

That hospital they bombed and killed a bunch of doctors and journalists with multiple air strikes?

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-gaza-war-08-26-2025-0f1be1b4e3231e0cbec54ce837cc6af9

They just HAD to blow up a hamas-controlled camera!

 

DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — The Israeli military said Tuesday that its double strike on a Gaza hospital that killed 20 people targeted what it believed was a Hamas surveillance camera. But the first strike killed a cameraman from the Reuters news agency doing a live television shot, according to witnesses and health officials.

The military released its initial findings into the strike, offering no immediate explanation for striking twice and no evidence for an assertion that six of the dead were militants, including two who were identified by their employers as a health care worker at the hospital and an emergency services driver. The dead also included five journalists.

The military said the back-to-back strikes on southern Gaza’s largest hospital were ordered because soldiers believed militants were using the camera to observe Israeli forces. But its account appeared to contradict the sequence of events in Monday’s attack on Nasser Hospital.

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Posted
45 minutes ago, Captainant said:

That hospital they bombed and killed a bunch of doctors and journalists with multiple air strikes?

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-gaza-war-08-26-2025-0f1be1b4e3231e0cbec54ce837cc6af9

They just HAD to blow up a hamas-controlled camera!

 

DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — The Israeli military said Tuesday that its double strike on a Gaza hospital that killed 20 people targeted what it believed was a Hamas surveillance camera. But the first strike killed a cameraman from the Reuters news agency doing a live television shot, according to witnesses and health officials.

The military released its initial findings into the strike, offering no immediate explanation for striking twice and no evidence for an assertion that six of the dead were militants, including two who were identified by their employers as a health care worker at the hospital and an emergency services driver. The dead also included five journalists.

The military said the back-to-back strikes on southern Gaza’s largest hospital were ordered because soldiers believed militants were using the camera to observe Israeli forces. But its account appeared to contradict the sequence of events in Monday’s attack on Nasser Hospital.

"Yes, each of the six dozen times we've double tapped journalists was an accident and how dare you suggest otherwise!" he says while loading a mag into a gun, chambering a round, and aiming it at your head.

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Posted
On 8/25/2025 at 9:58 AM, Vegas64 said:

Agree, plus, Israel is not some developing nation anymore. There is no reason to trust-fund baby a 35 year old. In this environment and geopolitical reality, Israel can more than defend their own interests with their own funding. 

Now, if anything materially changes in that reality (e.g. The Arab Nations band together to wipe out Israel or something) then that sentiment of economic support can be revisited. Odds are very unlikely moving forward, however.

They have nukes.  They easily handled Iran, a nation 10 times their size and with a large military industrial complex.  Nobody at the nation-state level is going to seriously threaten them.  

Their biggest danger is pretty much self-inflicted or self-fulfilling at this point - every time they kill an innocent person, they are creating one or more people, whether it be a parent, child, spouse, sibling, cousin, friend of the dead person, who want to see Israel punished. More than a few are willing to risk their lives in that pursuit. That could take the form of the stereotypical "person strapping a bomb to themselves and setting it off in a crowd" or more likely it could be somebody who is in a position to pass along information that winds up in the hands of Hamas, whether it be in an office somewhere (perhaps a janitor) who comes across sensitive information, or they work/live in a geographically sensitive area and can see things like Israeli troop movements. Or they could function as a courier, since Hamas has learned to be more careful about their electronic devices.  In short, Israel is creating new enemies every day, and for these new enemies it's personal - it's not some religious nutcase sitting in a Mosque who is talking shit to gain power over large numbers of people, it's a person who has lost a loved one or friend to the actions of Israel.

I can speculate all day long about Netanyahu's short-term goals, but there is clearly no long-term goal of peace for Israel.

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Posted
1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

They easily handled Iran, a nation 10 times their size and with a large military industrial complex

With our weapons, equipment, money, and backing. Without us they couldn't sustain a conflict in just Gaza by itself, much less the wars on multiple fronts they are trying to wage right now.

Yeah sure, they have nukes, but see what happens to you if you try to use them.

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Posted

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/egypt-vows-block-palestinian-displacement-hardens-rhetoric-gaza-2025-09-05/

Quote

NICOSIA, Sept 5 (Reuters) - Egypt said on Friday it would not tolerate mass displacement of Palestinians and what it described as genocide, continuing to ratchet up its criticism of Israel's Gaza offensive as thousands of residents of Gaza City defied Israeli orders to leave.

"Displacement is not an option and it is a red line for Egypt and we will not allow it to happen," Egyptian Foreign Minister Badr Abdelatty told reporters in Nicosia.

"Displacement means liquidation and the end of the Palestinian cause and there is no legal or moral or ethical ground to evict people from their homeland," he said. His comments are in line with a hardening of Egyptian language this year about Israel's conduct in the enclave, which borders Egypt, even as it has worked with Qatar and the U.S. to try to mediate a ceasefire in the almost two-year-old war.

Repeating accusations of genocide levelled by the Egyptian leadership against Israel in recent months, he added: "What is happening on the ground is far beyond the imagination. There is a genocide in motion there, mass killing of civilians, artificial starvation created by the Israelis," Abdelatty said.

 

Posted

Yeah, this won't go down well. 

Israel carries out attack against Hamas leadership in Qatar, Israeli source says

Israel carried out an attack against the Hamas leadership in Doha, an Israeli source told CNN, after an explosion was heard in the Qatari capital.

The source didn’t say who was targeted, but Hamas leaders have used the Qatari capital as a headquarters outside of Gaza for years.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/09/middleeast/qatar-hamas-israel-strike-intl

 

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Posted
Just now, Brian Fantana said:

I wonder if Qatar will stop hosting negotiations at all after this?

Probably. I also think this Friday will have the Arab streets quite excited. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, InkaUtexas said:

Probably. I also think this Friday will have the Arab streets quite excited. 

It's interesting because Qatar has been trying to act like the Switzerland of the Middle East for a while now, sometimes to their detriment. A lot of money flows through the country as a result, from all sides and sources.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Thinking about the weekend. I wonder if what set this off was the killing of 6 Israelis, over 10 wounded? 

I doubt it. They probably had this planned for a while. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

Posted
6 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

I doubt it. They probably had this planned for a while. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

BBC. 

Netanyahu says attack was in response to 7 October and Jerusalem shootingpublished at 10:20

10:20

A joint statement from Benjamin Netanyahu and his Defence Minister Israel Katz says that in the wake of attacks in Jerusalem and Gaza, the Israeli prime minister ordered his security agencies to prepare to target the Hamas leadership.

It says that this afternoon presented an operational opportunity and, with the full backing of Israel's defence leaders, the pair jointly decided to green-light the attack. It adds that the IDF and Shin Bet were informed of the plans for the attack last night.

The statement continues that Netanyahu and Katz believe the attack was justified due to the Hamas leadership being behind the 7 October 2023 attack and the shooting in Jerusalem yesterday.

Earlier today, Hamas claimed responsibility for the shooting, which killed six Israelis and left several other wounded.

 

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Posted

I just think they would have done it that day regardless of what happened in Jerusalem. They were clearly intending to hit that specific meeting.

Qatar maybe just allowed it, who knows. We for sure knew ahead of time.

Just now, InkaUtexas said:

BBC. 

Netanyahu says attack was in response to 7 October and Jerusalem shootingpublished at 10:20

10:20

A joint statement from Benjamin Netanyahu and his Defence Minister Israel Katz says that in the wake of attacks in Jerusalem and Gaza, the Israeli prime minister ordered his security agencies to prepare to target the Hamas leadership.

It says that this afternoon presented an operational opportunity and, with the full backing of Israel's defence leaders, the pair jointly decided to green-light the attack. It adds that the IDF and Shin Bet were informed of the plans for the attack last night.

The statement continues that Netanyahu and Katz believe the attack was justified due to the Hamas leadership being behind the 7 October 2023 attack and the shooting in Jerusalem yesterday.

Earlier today, Hamas claimed responsibility for the shooting, which killed six Israelis and left several other wounded.

 

Yeah I read what he said, I'm just not sure it's the truth. The attack provided probably more cover for the op than they were expecting, but I would bet my money on it being planned and executed regardless.

Posted
8 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

This strike was planned, sure. But was it the catalyst? Also, IAF had to fly real close to some US bases no matter what route they took and we should have had AWACs up. Plus our Navy. 

Was this quietly allowed by the Arab states? Qatar has a pretty modern air force. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_Emiri_Air_Force

 

well I'm pretty sure they're dropping US (made or funded) weapons, so we're already in for a penny in for a pound with Israel

Posted

We've just seen a statement from Hamas, who say their negotiating team in Doha have survived Israel's strike on the Qatari capital.

In a statement, it says: "We confirm the enemy's failure to assassinate our brothers in the negotiating delegation."

It adds the strike "confirms beyond doubt that Netanyahu and his government do not want to reach any agreement" for peace.

The statement adds that six others were killed in the strike.

"We hold the US administration jointly responsible with the occupation for this crime, due to its ongoing support for the aggression and crimes of the occupation against our people," the statement adds.

As a reminder, Hamas earlier said their negotiating delegation was targeted during its meeting in Doha after Israel said it carried out a strike on senior Hamas leaders.

 

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