San Antonio Spurs 2024 Offseason Thread - Edging and Unleashing Wemby's Jumbo Package

[Mitch Cumsteen 18326]

So... I guess I'll get this started. This figures to be a pretty well scrutinized offseason, although I don't expect them to make any major moves - just fix some things around the edges. And I don't think there's much use in speculating about the draft until the lottery and we see how things shake out with both their own and the Toronto pick.

So other than endless bullshit Trae Young and Darius Garland trade rumors, what do we have to look forward to?

Team Needs: They have to get more outside shooting. They have to reduce their turnovers (much of that is on Victor, btw). They have to get better defensively overall. They could definitely upgrade point guard (as well as just about every other non-Victor position, if we're being honest). I think they need another bruising big. Mostly, they need some vets who know how to win. They check all those boxes combined with internal growth and barring injury, they are vying for the play-in even in this brutal conference just because Wembanyama is that fucking good. And getting better at a frighteningly rapid pace.

The Roster: Again, it would shock me to see any major moves. That's just not their m.o. Here is how I see the roster shaking out with the 15 spots:
1. Wemby - they should probably keep him around for another year to make sure last year wasn't a fluke.
2. Vassell - will almost assuredly be back.
3. Jones - will almost assuredly be back; would be solid backup in an ideal world and not your starter. I was starting believe in his three point shooting post all star break. Then he went 3-19 in the final five games. Woof.
4. Collins - they can't move off his contract without sending assets. The Wemby/Collins lineups were a disaster early, but in hindsight I wonder how much of that was due to point Sochan and/or Wemby just starting to feel his way in the league. We saw more of those Collins/Wemby combos late and they weren't nearly as atrocious.
5. Keldon - he's always the name brought up in trades but I don't know what they could get for him. He's underperforming his contract on one hand, but is a such a strong culture guy on the other. It doesn't make sense to unload him unless some other team falls in love with an undersized forward who doesn't finish well, is inconsistent from 3, is sporadic on defense and carries a pretty bad cap number. Yeah, he's not going anywhere.
6, 7, 8. Sochan, Wesley and Branham - you have to give these guys at least 3 full years before making a decision on them. All three have had their bright spots and plenty of horrific moments, but they are each only 20 years old. It's waaaaay too early to give up on any of them. Don't make me go through the list of really young guys who stunk for two years before turning it on in year 3.
9. Sidy Cissoko - he's on a two year deal and another really young guy (just turned 20) who almost assuredly will be back. No way they punt on him.
10. Mamu - they gotta bring him back on a cheap deal, right? Right? Probably? Maybe?
11. Spurs first round pick
12. Toronto's pick or their own second rounder (#35 overall). If they can get that SRP on a two way or move it altogether, it opens up another roster slot. 

Barlow is another 20 year old who has shown quite a bit of growth. Can't they put him on another two way? That would help free up a roster spot as well. I'd imagine they'd like to keep him, all things considered.

So that leaves three spots, four if the Toronto pick doesn't convey. I think they move off Graham although the success of his archetype (undersized no defense playing point guard chucker) in limited sample size around Wemby may be instructive for future roster construction (vis a vis Rob Dillingham in the draft). They would have won more games playing him over Wesley and probably Jones (or alongside Jones) in crunch time. Bassey can't stay healthy, so they probably cut him too. Cedi? I think he's a goner. They have to upgrade from Champagnie who actually had some moments lately, especially defensively. But he's got two more years plus a third year team option at a paltry $3 million per. I just have a suspicion that they're going to keep him much to my chagrin, but otherwise he seems like good ballast to be used for matching cash in a trade.

Free Agency:
It's a piss poor free agency class and they don't have a ton of cap room, even if they clear some salary moving off Graham and Bassey. As much as they could benefit from Malik Monk or Grayson Allen, I think they're long shots to even pursue either. Scratch Allen - he just signed a relatively cheap extension in Phoenix. D'Angelo Russell may also be out of their reach. Same with Hartenstein. I don't see them pursuing big names on the downsides of their careers like Klay Thompson or Demar Derozan or even Tobias Harris. But they have to add some floor raising, tone setting vets and outside shooting.

Nic Batum would be a dream for me - he's French, won't be expensive or require a long term deal, is clutch, can shoot from outside, and is a tremendous defender even at 35. They should be looking at low cost guys who know their role in the vein of Justin Holiday, Gary Harris, Malik Beasley, Andre Drummond, Robert Covington, Monte Morris, Kyle Anderson, etc. Will Toronto pick up Bruce Brown's option? Will Memphis pick up Luke Kennard? I wouldn't mind them kicking the tires on either of them should they be available. 

Finally, there is still the Pop question. You just never know when he's going to pull the plug on this thing. If that happens -- and I don't think it will -- then we're looking at a whole new batch of issues.

Finally, I'll leave you with 30 minutes of Wemby doing ridiculous shit. GSG.

 

[chainsaw 9440]

Can we moneywhip Chip Engelland?

[Kermit 3081]

19 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Can we moneywhip Chip Engelland?

@Mitch Cumsteen, what the fuck happened there. If it’s already been covered, I’m sorry. Was he not as valuable as we thought? Did he want something the Spurs couldn’t/wouldn’t give? Did Tony sext his wife? 

[chainsaw 9440]

I read an article about it. The story reminded me of the recent Akina "hire" attempt where Coach Engelland wanted a bigger role but Pop not being on board in the same way Sark couldn't offer Akina anything more than a "consultant" role.

I'm not sure if Chip actually get that expanded role up in OKC, since by now he's pretty well-known as a shooting coach and why the hell would you go out and get that and ask him to spend time doing things he hasn't got as much experience doing.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18326]

7 minutes ago, Kermit said:

@Mitch Cumsteen, what the fuck happened there. If it’s already been covered, I’m sorry. Was he not as valuable as we thought? Did he want something the Spurs couldn’t/wouldn’t give? Did Tony sext his wife? 

 

2 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I read an article about it. The story reminded me of the recent Akina "hire" attempt where Coach Engelland wanted a bigger role but Pop not being on board in the same way Sark couldn't offer Akina anything more than a "consultant" role.

I'm not sure if Chip actually get that expanded role up in OKC, since by now he's pretty well-known as a shooting coach and why the hell would you go out and get that and ask him to spend time doing things he hasn't got as much experience doing.

I honestly don't know and I never asked about it.

It may have been the expanded role thing, but my gut is that they just didn't want to pay him what he wanted. He had been there so long that they probably felt they knew all of his tricks and techniques, and didn't need him any longer. I would hope they picked up something from him after 17 years. I know nothing about the new guy, Jimmy Baron, other than he's got his work cut out for him.

[hornfan785 548]

I could listen to Wemby talk for an hour every day. Just talk about what he sees on the court and where he wants to improve. We're so fucking lucky to be Spurs fans 

https://youtu.be/XALjqZHYedc?si=6QBIxRqSonQvo2Ep

[gofuckyourself 8023]

On 4/16/2024 at 3:37 PM, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I know nothing about the new guy, Jimmy Baron, other than he's got his work cut out for him.

Jimmy's pretty good. Jimmy has some shoe recommendations that are gonna really help the guys out. 

[ConferenceRoom 5956]

Jimmy is sweet on you. 

[ztejas 42744]

 

On 4/16/2024 at 1:51 PM, Mitch Cumsteen said:

6, 7, 8. Sochan, Wesley and Branham - you have to give these guys at least 3 full years before making a decision on them. All three have had their bright spots and plenty of horrific moments, but they are each only 20 years old. It's waaaaay too early to give up on any of them. Don't make me go through the list of really young guys who stunk for two years before turning it on in year 3.

Lumping Sochan in with these two is ridiculous. This is all from this season. 

Worst-case scenario Jeremy is a rotation player for 10-12 years in the NBA. WORST case. And in one season he took huge strides both from 3 and from the FT line.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18326]

11 hours ago, ztejas said:

 

Lumping Sochan in with these two is ridiculous. This is all from this season. 

Worst-case scenario Jeremy is a rotation player for 10-12 years in the NBA. WORST case. And in one season he took huge strides both from 3 and from the FT line.

All that’s fair. It was more about counting roster numbers next year and conveniently lumping those three together because they were in the same draft class and on similar contract and development timelines. But certainly, Sochan has shown much more than the other two. 

That said, his shooting is a problem regardless of the improvement. It was eye popping how open the floor was with him out of the lineup. I don’t think it’s going to get fixed unless he totally breaks down that idiotic side spin release and starts over. It’s beyond me that someone who had both parents who played college ball wouldn’t get that fixed like when he was 10 years old. 

[Kermit 3081]

Great article on Jeremy. No mention of his side spin release.
 

https://www.sacurrent.com/arts/true-colors-jeremy-sochan-is-putting-his-stamp-on-the-spurs-and-san-antonio-34310904

[ztejas 42744]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

That said, his shooting is a problem regardless of the improvement. It was eye popping how open the floor was with him out of the lineup. I don’t think it’s going to get fixed unless he totally breaks down that idiotic side spin release and starts over. It’s beyond me that someone who had both parents who played college ball wouldn’t get that fixed like when he was 10 years old. 

It's a problem until it isn't. He was .246 on 2.4 attempts last season and was .308 on 3.1 this season. These things aren't typically linear but if he did that again he'd be .370 on 3.8 attempts which is all he will ever need to be from 3. Even if he improved half as much going into year 3 he'd be at .349 and 3.4. We could sure as hell live with that. 

He pretty clearly works his ass off - we'll just have to see if he caps out as a Draymond-level, ~35% shooter or if he can turn into a guy that you really can't just leave on the perimeter. 

[ztejas 42744]

23 minutes ago, Kermit said:

Great article on Jeremy. No mention of his side spin release.
 

https://www.sacurrent.com/arts/true-colors-jeremy-sochan-is-putting-his-stamp-on-the-spurs-and-san-antonio-34310904

 

 

[Radical Larry 28368]

No surprise, but Wemby was named a finalist for ROY and DPOY. 

[ztejas 42744]

17 hours ago, Radical Larry said:

No surprise, but Wemby was named a finalist for ROY and DPOY. 

He got at least two 1st place votes for DPOY that I'm aware of. And was on at least two 1st team all D ballots.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18326]

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-warriors-waive-cp3-spurs-152206480.html

There's no chance the W's pick up that option and I can't imagine a team is going to sign on to pay him $30 million in a trade. So one way or the other Chris Paul is going to be on the market. He's probably more inclined to go ring chasing with his butt buddy Lebron anyway, and as much as I have been a CP3 hater all the way back to when he was at Wake and punched that dude in the junk, I would hold my nose and grudgingly kick the tires on him.

[BurdineBandit 801]

Was going to say the same about Sochan, but I get the reasoning in putting him there. I definitely feel that he's long-term and is part of PATFO's core of Wemby/Vassell/Sochan. I also agree Johnson likely doesn't go anywhere but just stays on the bench and hopefully grows through that 6th man role. Upgrading the bench with a couple of vets is on my wish list though. Maybe he'll have to be 7th. I just refuse to believe that all our guys that spent last year in the G League are true NBA rotational pieces and aren't just spending time in SA for PATFO to continue to the tank while figuring out what they really have (Wesly, Champenny, Barlow, Cissoko, Mamu, etc. do these guys stick on another team if they were free agents?). 

Compared to a couple months ago with the Trae Young talk, I'm a lot less optimistic for next year, bc I also don't think we'll be making any huge moves. But upgrading Champagnie as a starter and a couple of bench spots (draft, FAs) would get me excited for another couple handfuls of wins next year. 

[Michael Knight 12662]

On 4/22/2024 at 12:29 PM, Mitch Cumsteen said:

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-warriors-waive-cp3-spurs-152206480.html

There's no chance the W's pick up that option and I can't imagine a team is going to sign on to pay him $30 million in a trade. So one way or the other Chris Paul is going to be on the market. He's probably more inclined to go ring chasing with his butt buddy Lebron anyway, and as much as I have been a CP3 hater all the way back to when he was at Wake and punched that dude in the junk, I would hold my nose and grudgingly kick the tires on him.

I would much rather CP3 than some piece of shit like Trae Young

[Kermit 3081]

1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:

I would much rather CP3 than some piece of shit like Trae Young

Yup. Fuck Trae Young. Please do not bring this cancer to the Spurs.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18326]

I'm trying to rack my brain to think of somebody I would hate worse on the Spurs than Trae Young. I'm not sure that I can, especially given his contract and the assets it would take to obtain him.

Is Dwight Howard still in the league? Draymond would be tough to swallow but at least the fucker plays winning basketball. Pat Bev? Dillon Brooks? Kyrie is a terrible human but the fucker can ball. Harden? Westbrook? I think I'd take any of them over Young. Shit, give me Ben Simmons and his shitty back over Trae Young.

Maybe Jordan Poole. I think I might take Young over Poole. Maybe. 

[Kermit 3081]

Josh Primo.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Are we still being bitter about Kawhi and laughing internally every time he is injured?  Or am I just a petty asshole ?

 

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

On 4/24/2024 at 8:25 PM, Kermit said:

Josh Primo.

I’m retrospect that guy did the spurs a huge favor.  Spurs got victor and primo hasn’t done jack shit in 2 seasons after basically being handed the starting PG role.  

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

What’s the pros and cons of the Toronto pick being conveyed or not?  I think the odds are more or less 50/50.  

on one hand, by many accounts it’s a weak draft and the 7th pick might. Or yield the quality player as it would in the 2025 draft.  Plus that’s two guarantee contracts for players that are likely 3-4 seasons away from contributing meaningfully.  

on the other hand if Toronto decides to completely tank next season then the pick becomes 2 second rounders. Which is just pointless.  (That’s a shitty  deal btw). 

may dream scenario is the pick conveys, and spurs draft two future hall of famers, but realistically if it conveys they trade to some other team for a future 1st

 

[hornfan785 548]

San Antonio Spurs to Play Two Regular-Season Games in Paris in January 2025 Against the Indiana Pacers

Quote

The San Antonio Spurs today announced that they will play two regular-season games in Paris as part of The NBA Paris Games 2025 presented by Tissot. The Spurs will tip off against the Indiana Pacers on Thursday, Jan. 23 and Saturday, Jan. 25, 2025, marking the first time the NBA will play two regular-season games in the French capital in the same season. The 2024-25 Spurs season is presented by H-E-B. 

“Playing in Paris has been an incredible experience for our organization in the past and we are thrilled for the opportunity to be a part of The NBA Paris Games 2025,” said San Antonio Spurs CEO RC Buford. “Thanks to our deep international history, we are fortunate to have Spurs fans in France, across Europe and around the world. We are excited to continue to honor that legacy by purposefully connecting and engaging with our fans in France on and off the court.”  

Rooted in San Antonio, the Spurs have a unique history engaging with international basketball since joining the NBA in 1976. More than 50 international players have suited up for the franchise, including seven from France. Most recently, the team’s 2023 NBA Draft class featured two French players – the No. 1 overall pick Victor Wembanyama and the No. 44 overall selection Sidy Cissoko. The NBA Paris Games 2025 presented by Tissot will mark the Spurs’ fourth and fifth games in France, having previously played two games in Paris (2003 & 2006) and one in Lyon (2006).

Got the email this morning saying one of my season ticket games was taken away for one of the Paris games. I get credit on my account to use to purchase single game tickets to another home game that's not currently in my ticket plan. I honestly wish they would have just refunded the money straight to my checking account, but whatever. Should be cool for Wemby to get to play a couple of NBA games in Paris.

[gofuckyourself 8023]

On 4/26/2024 at 11:11 PM, dingleberryswitzer said:

Are we still being bitter about Kawhi and laughing internally every time he is injured?  Or am I just a petty asshole ?

 

I don't laugh or wish injury on anyone, but I give Lady Karmic Justice a slight nod.

Oh, and I would still boo the shit out of him at a home game, because I paid for the fucking ticket, Pop.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18326]

On 4/26/2024 at 11:25 PM, dingleberryswitzer said:

What’s the pros and cons of the Toronto pick being conveyed or not?  I think the odds are more or less 50/50.  

on one hand, by many accounts it’s a weak draft and the 7th pick might. Or yield the quality player as it would in the 2025 draft.  Plus that’s two guarantee contracts for players that are likely 3-4 seasons away from contributing meaningfully.  

on the other hand if Toronto decides to completely tank next season then the pick becomes 2 second rounders. Which is just pointless.  (That’s a shitty  deal btw). 

may dream scenario is the pick conveys, and spurs draft two future hall of famers, but realistically if it conveys they trade to some other team for a future 1st

 

The only con to it conveying this season is that the draft class blows. Everything else points to it being a good thing. Also, they have two more years after this one for it to convey, not one. It's definitely a possibility that it doesn't ever convey but Toronto has a young star in Barnes, some decent vets, a clean cap, and they play in the shitty east. I can't imagine a three year tank job with that group and their front office.

For roster building and balance purposes, the Spurs already have two guaranteed FRP next year, and could have two more (Chicago and Charlotte) plus the Toronto pick. Doubtful they all hit, but adding five rookies to the youngest roster in the league seems a bit insane. Even adding two this year and two next year seems like a lot. Gonna be some trading going on, for sure.

[ztejas 42744]

11 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Doubtful they all hit, but adding five rookies to the youngest roster in the league seems a bit insane.

Nonsense. We need more 20 year old project combo-guards with questionable BBIQ and shooting ability. 

[thepop 4383]

There aren't really any insiders when it comes to the Spurs but the Spurstalk guy is usually somewhat plugged in.

 

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-big-board-1-2024-nba-draft/

The Dillingham section is probably the most noteworthy. Also mentioned the Spurs have barely been at Nikola Topic's games so may not be interest there .

 

 

[Braff Zacklin 13284]

So instead of a "three and D" guy, he'd be just a "three" ... but without the size to be an actual 3?

This team definitely needs shooters, but the "reasons to hesitate" listed above were very persuasive.

 

Would be interested to read what @Underdog has to say about him.

Edited May 1 by Braff Zacklin
callout to Underdog

[thepop 4383]

24 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

So instead of a "three and D" guy, he'd be just a "three" ... but without the size to be an actual 3?

This team definitely needs shooters, but the "reasons to hesitate" listed above were very persuasive.

 

Would be interested to read what @Underdog has to say about him.

He's a guard but yeah problem is this is a weak draft and all the prospects are pretty flawed.

[Braff Zacklin 13284]

2 minutes ago, thepop said:

He's a guard

I'm aware of that. It was a pun on three-and-D and the 3 position cuz this guy can't D and doesn't have size for the 3. Felt that was obvious.

[ztejas 42744]

55 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

So instead of a "three and D" guy, he'd be just a "three" ... but without the size to be an actual 3?

This team definitely needs shooters, but the "reasons to hesitate" listed above were very persuasive.

 

Would be interested to read what @Underdog has to say about him.

Um - you obviously didn't see my draft advice.

On 4/29/2024 at 4:38 PM, ztejas said:

Nonsense. We need more 20 year old project combo-guards with questionable BBIQ and shooting ability. 

Just replace "shooting ability" with "defensive ability".

[Mitch Cumsteen 18326]

59 minutes ago, thepop said:

There aren't really any insiders when it comes to the Spurs but the Spurstalk guy is usually somewhat plugged in.

 

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-big-board-1-2024-nba-draft/

The Dillingham section is probably the most noteworthy. Also mentioned the Spurs have barely been at Nikola Topic's games so may not be interest there .

I don't agree with his assessment that he's not a playmaker or passer. He did plenty of that at Kentucky and that's not really a prerequisite to play "point guard" in the NBA today and particularly in the Spurs system. And he's plenty quick. The question about him is strictly on defense. Can he hold up? Is he going to get hunted mercilessly? 

All of this is bullshit speculation until the lottery order shakes out anyway, but Dillingham makes a lot of sense. Most of the other lottery teams don't need point guards so there's a decent chance he's available no matter where the Spurs pick.

[Underdog 27966]

I think he’s a baller but only time will tell if that translates to the NBA.  I liked watching him play and he seemed fearless about shooting from anywhere on the court… Mackey 2.0?

[Mitch Cumsteen 18326]

26 minutes ago, Underdog said:

I think he’s a baller but only time will tell if that translates to the NBA.  I liked watching him play and he seemed fearless about shooting from anywhere on the court… Mackey 2.0?

If he's Mackey 2.0, then he will absolutely kill it in San Antonio with the overweight cholas.

[Underdog 27966]

GD spellcheck! 

[Radical Larry 28368]

 

[Radical Larry 28368]

 

No surprise. 

[Radical Larry 28368]

On 5/5/2024 at 11:18 AM, Radical Larry said:

 

Here’s the tweet Nike nuked yesterday. They had some incorrect stats. 
 

 

[ztejas 42744]

Yeah the field goals number didn't make sense to me and was way off.

[Radical Larry 28368]

 

This is pretty awesome. 

[gofuckyourself 8023]

Unanimous. Rightfully so.

[Michael Knight 12662]

1 hour ago, gofuckyourself said:

Unanimous. Rightfully so.

only the 6th ever Ralph Sampson, David Robinson, Blake Griffin , Damian Lillard and Karl-Anthony Towns (who kinda ruins the list). Some idiot voted for fucking Keith Van Horn or Timmy would be on that list

[ztejas 42744]

KAT had a phenomenal rookie season.

[tx 3 putt 74760]

 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18326]

 

 

[C-Man 26535]

 
 

Was coming to post this. That was bad ass.

[Radical Larry 28368]

 

[hornfan785 548]

We're so fucking lucky. GSG!