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Posted
On 7/6/2025 at 9:35 AM, 956 Worldwide said:

Completely agree.  The Udvar-Hazey Center is likely the best flight and space museum in the world and an orbiter belongs there with the rest of America’s treasures. Moving it will simply deprive generations of aviation lovers and future aviators or engineers from marveling at what America can do. 
 

The correct answer for what to do was to put a line in a budget a decade ago to install the NY orbiter in Houston properly cared for. To fund NASA to tell its own story. Obama should have asked for it and Congress should have voted for it.

This is just sheer idiocy at this point, they don’t like the “woke Smithsonian” and so the shuttle ends as it lived- far underfunded and directed at the wrong mission. 

I love the Udvar-Hazey Center.  We try to go there every couple of years, as we are pretty close to it.   Also, sucks we won't get to see the shuttle there anymore. 

I know, fuck Ohio and all, but if you ever happen to be in Dayton, check out the National Museum of the Air Force.  I spent four hours there one day playing hooky from work and I felt I just scratched the surface of all the shit in there.   So many of aircraft there that are they last of their kind in the world, not to mention some other famous aircraft, including Bockscar and Memphis Belle. Great place. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Ghost of NMAS said:

Houston should have received the Endeavor, but to try and take the one from the Smithsonian now is beyond stupid, not to mention probably prohibitively expensive

There is $85M allocated in the shit-tastic BBB to move the shuttle from the Smithsonian to Houston and build a facility to house it. The Smithsonian has estimated it will cost at least $325M to relocate the shuttle from DC to Texas and build a facility to display it. Seems like a responsible allocation of funds.

https://www.ffxnow.com/2025/07/03/smithsonian-committed-to-keeping-space-shuttle-in-chantilly-despite-relocation-proposal/

Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, C-Man said:

There is $85M allocated in the shit-tastic BBB to move the shuttle from the Smithsonian to Houston and build a facility to house it. The Smithsonian has estimated it will cost at least $325M to relocate the shuttle from DC to Texas and build a facility to display it. Seems like a responsible allocation of funds.

https://www.ffxnow.com/2025/07/03/smithsonian-committed-to-keeping-space-shuttle-in-chantilly-despite-relocation-proposal/

Since it's not enough to do fuck all with, Space Center Houston will spend about a third of it on various commissions and vendors run by the board's cousins to study the issue, then the rest will get clawed back and spent on golf trips. 

Edited by elfenix
Posted

the whole thing was fucked up from the beginning

new york has zero connection to the space program other than the parades in the 60's

enterprise should have gone to la for a dozen reasons

endeavour should have gone to houston

and the astrodome would have been perfect

this timeline

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Posted
18 hours ago, Captainant said:

it's incredibly frustrating that they're slashing NASA's budget but allocating money for boondoggles like this that do NOTHING to further their science mission

The *only* political comment I'll make here is that NASA has done more than enough to "get away from their science mission" on their own.  There's lots of wasteful spending, poor contractor management, "non-primary-mission" programs, etc.

Having said that, yes - if dedicated to primary exploration and overseen by budgetary hawks, I'm 100% in favor of an increased budget.  But right now, there's little to no accountability and a sense of entitlement that isn't helping anything.

(political rant over, apologies)

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Posted (edited)

As Bill Nye told someone, you don’t see Department of Agriculture or HUD shirts or stickers out in the wild

other than National Parks, NASA is inherently the most American agency. Shared commitment to scientific advancement, doing the impossible, and leading the world in advancement and human endeavor 

Too bad we are giving it all up because one of their core missions of earth science doesn’t jive with the anti-climate science regime. 

Kind of like trying to name one of our foremost center for the arts after an Eastern European gold digging whore 

Edited by Js1
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted

https://arstechnica.com/space/2025/08/houston-youve-got-a-space-shuttle-only-nasa-wont-say-which-one/

 

Quote

The head of NASA has decided to move one of the agency's retired space shuttles to Houston, but which one seems to still be up in the air.

Senator John Cornyn (R-Texas), who earlier this year introduced and championed an effort to relocate the space shuttle Discovery from the Smithsonian to Space Center Houston, issued a statement on Tuesday evening (August 5) applauding the decision by acting NASA Administrator Sean Duffy.

"There is no better place for one of NASA's space shuttles to be displayed than Space City," said Cornyn in the statement. "Since the inception of our nation's human space exploration program, Houston has been at the center of our most historic achievements, from training the best and brightest to voyage into the great unknown to putting the first man on the moon."

 

 

Quote

The senator did not state which of NASA's winged orbiters would be making the move. The legislation that required Duffy to choose a "space vehicle" that had "flown in space" and "carried people" did not specify an orbiter by name, but the language in the "One Big Beautiful Bill" that President Donald Trump signed into law last month was inspired by Cornyn and fellow Texas Senator Ted Cruz's bill to relocate Discovery.

"The acting administrator has made an identification. We have no further public statement at this time," said a spokesperson for Duffy in response to an inquiry.

 

Quote

It is not clear why the choice of orbiters is being held a secret. According to the bill, the decision was to be made "with the concurrence of an entity designated" by the NASA administrator to display the shuttle. Cornyn's release only confirmed that Duffy had identified the location to be "a non-profit near the Johnson Space Center (JSC)."

Space Center Houston is owned by the Manned Space Flight Education Foundation, a 501(c)3 organization, and is the official visitor's center for NASA's Johnson Space Center.

"We continue to work on the basis that the shuttle identified is Discovery and proceed with our preparations for its arrival and providing it a world-class home," Keesha Bullock, interim COO and chief communications and marketing officer at Space Center Houston, said in a statement.

 

 

Spoiler

Orbiter owners
Another possible reason for the hesitation to name an orbiter may be NASA's ability, or rather inability, to identify one of its three remaining space-flown shuttles that is available to be moved.

NASA transferred the title for space shuttle Endeavour to the California Science Center in Los Angeles in 2012, and as such it is no longer US government property. (The science center is a public-private partnership between the state of California and the California Science Center Foundation.)

NASA still owns space shuttle Atlantis and displays it at its own Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex in Florida.

Discovery, the fleet leader and "vehicle of record," was the focus of Cornyn and Cruz's original "Bring the Space Shuttle Home Act." The senators said they chose Discovery because it was "the only shuttle still owned by the federal government and able to be transferred to Houston."

For the past 13 years, Discovery has been on public display at the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center in Chantilly, Virginia, the annex for the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum in Washington, DC. As with Endeavour, NASA signed over title upon the orbiter's arrival at its new home.

As such, Smithsonian officials are clear: Discovery is no longer NASA's to have or to move.

"The Smithsonian Institution owns the Discovery and holds it in trust for the American public," read a statement from the National Air and Space Museum issued before Duffy made his decision. "In 2012, NASA transferred 'all rights, title, interest and ownership' of the shuttle to the Smithsonian."

The Smithsonian operates as a trust instrumentality of the United States and is partially funded by Congress, but it is not part of any of the three branches of the federal government.

"The Smithsonian is treated as a federal agency for lots of things to do with federal regulations and state action, but that's very different than being an agency of the executive branch, which it most certainly is not," Nick O'Donnell, an attorney who specializes in legal issues in the museum and visual arts communities and co-chairs the Art, Cultural Property, and Heritage Law Committee of the International Bar Association, said in an interview.

"If there's a document that accompanied the transfer of the space shuttle, especially if it says something like, 'all rights, title, and interest,' that's a property transfer, and that's it," O'Donnell said.

"NASA has decided to transfer all rights, interest, title, and ownership of Discovery to the Smithsonian Institution's National Air and Space Museum," reads the signed transfer of ownership for space shuttle orbiter Discovery (OV-103), according to a copy of the paperwork obtained by collectSPACE.

The Congressional Research Service also raised the issue of ownership in its paper, "Transfer of a Space Vehicle: Issues for Congress."

"The ability of the NASA Administrator to direct transfer of objects owned by non-NASA entities—including the Smithsonian and private organizations—is unclear and may be subject to question. This may, in turn, limit the range of space vehicles that may be eligible for transfer under this provision."

Defending Discovery
The National Air and Space Museum also raised concerns about the safety of relocating the space shuttle now. The One Big Beautiful Bill allocated $85 million to transport the orbiter and construct a facility to display it. The Smithsonian contends it could be much more costly.

"Removing Discovery from the Udvar-Hazy Center and transporting it to another location would be very complicated and expensive, and likely result in irreparable damage to the shuttle and its components," the museum's staff said in a statement. "The orbiter is a fragile object and must be handled according to the standards and equipment NASA used to move it originally, which exceeds typical museum transport protocols."

"Given its age and condition, Discovery is at even greater risk today. The Smithsonian employs world-class preservation and conservation methods, and maintaining Discovery's current conditions is critical to its long-term future," the museum's statement concluded.

The law directs NASA to transfer the space shuttle (the identified space vehicle) to Space Center Houston (the entity designated by the NASA administrator) within 18 months of the bill's enactment, or January 4, 2027.

In the interim, an amendment to block funding the move is awaiting a vote by the full House of Representatives when its members return from summer recess in September.

"The forced removal and relocation of the Space Shuttle Discovery from the Smithsonian Institution's Air and Space Museum is inappropriate, wasteful, and wrong. Neither the Smithsonian nor American taxpayers should be forced to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on this misguided effort," said Rep. Joe Morelle (N.Y.-25), who introduced the amendment.

A grassroots campaign, KeepTheShutle.org, has also raised objection to removing Discovery from the Smithsonian.

As to what the Smithsonian can do, if indeed it is NASA's intention take Discovery, is to do nothing at all, says O'Donnell.

"I would say the Smithsonian's recourse is to keep the shuttle exactly where it is. It's the federal government that has no recourse to take it," O'Donnell said. "The space shuttle [Discovery] is the Smithsonian's, and any law that suggests the intention to take it violates the fifth amendment on its face — the government cannot take private property."

 

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Posted

This is all so very dumb.  Yes, Houston should've received a Shuttle back when they were retired, but they dropped the ball and NY swept in.

The rest all make sense.  Of course NASM should have the most historical orbiter.  One should go on the East Coast (Atlantis), one should go on the West Coast (I'll argue that should have been Enterprise, but ultimately was Endeavor) and one in the middle of the country (Houston - Enterprise) so that the majority of the population that paid of them could see them.  The outlier is of course, Enterprise to NYC of all places that had nothing to do with the program.  Moreover, though I love the Intrepid Museum and I'm sure it gets lots of visitors, the Shuttle building plopped down on its deck to cover the shuttle just seems totally incongruous with the museum.  

I always believed NY getting the shuttle was a sort of sop from Obama to Schumer.  The articles above don't say that, but I can't believe that wasn't happening.  Especially as shitty as Cornyn and Cruz were to Obama.  

But coming back now trying to undo this arrangement just seems incredibly stupid and costly.  Another example of fixing a problem costing far more than to do it right the first time.  

It's all spilled milk.  Stupid election season play for votes.  Hopefully it goes away after.  Even politically it seems to be Cornyn trying to assert a remedy no one was asking for.  

 

 

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Posted
44 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

It's all spilled milk.  Stupid election season play for votes.  Hopefully it goes away after.  Even politically it seems to be Cornyn trying to assert a remedy no one was asking for.  

 

Cornyn is going to lose so bad to Ken Paxton, so it doesn't really matter for him.

And it is going to cost a lot closer to a billion dollars than 350 million or whatever.  But the regime will tell us it cost even less than that! 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Js1 said:

Cornyn is going to lose so bad to Ken Paxton, so it doesn't really matter for him.

And it is going to cost a lot closer to a billion dollars than 350 million or whatever.  But the regime will tell us it cost even less than that! 

I haven't seen much on the actual numbers in the Cornyn v. Paxton saga.  I wish they could both lose.  But Cornyn is by far the least shitty of the two.  So you're probably right, he will lose. 

Posted
Just now, Chad Fuck said:

I haven't seen much on the actual numbers in the Cornyn v. Paxton saga.  I wish they could both lose.  But Cornyn is by far the least shitty of the two.  So you're probably right, he will lose. 

I only know because someone sent it to me this morning - Pax 41, Cornyn 28, Hunt 17.  Which came from the Tribune.

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Posted

https://arstechnica.com/space/2025/08/texas-politicians-warn-smithsonian-it-must-not-lobby-to-retain-its-space-shuttle/

 

Quote

Texas lawmakers, seemingly not content with getting NASA's endorsement to move a retired space shuttle to Houston, are now calling for an investigation into how the Smithsonian allegedly objected to relocating the orbiter it has owned for more than a decade.

Senator John Cornyn and Representative Randy Weber on Thursday sent a letter to John Roberts, the Smithsonian Institution's chancellor and chief justice of the United States, suggesting that the Smithsonian's staff may have violated the law in their efforts to block legislation authorizing the space vehicle's transfer.

 

Quote

"Public reporting suggest that the Smithsonian Institution has taken affirmative steps to oppose the passage and implementation of this provision. These steps reportedly include contacting staff of the Senate Appropriations and Rules Committees to express opposition, as well as engaging members of the press to generate public resistance to the provision's enforcement," wrote Cornyn and Weber to Roberts.

 

 

Spoiler

Battle began in April

In April, Cornyn and Weber introduced matching bills in the Senate and House to remove Space Shuttle Discovery from the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum's Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center in Chantilly, Virginia, and display it at Space Center Houston, the visitor center for NASA's Johnson Space Center in Texas. Generic language intended to achieve the same result was then inserted into the "One Big Beautiful Bill Act," which was enacted on July 4.

On Tuesday, in accordance with the bill's requirements, acting NASA Administrator Sean Duffy "made an identification" but did not publicly disclose his choice of space vehicles to be moved. Cornyn later said that Duffy approved sending a space shuttle to Houston.

Neither Duffy nor Cornyn would confirm which of NASA's three remaining space-flown shuttles was to be moved. Endeavour is the property of the California Science Center in Los Angeles. Atlantis, on display at NASA's Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex in Florida, is still NASA property.

In a statement, the Smithsonian affirmed that it has held "all rights, title, interest and ownership" of Discovery since 2012.

(Oddly, Cornyn and Weber's letter to Roberts described the law as requiring Duffy "to transfer a space vehicle involved in the Commercial Crew Program" rather than choosing a destination NASA center related to the same, as the bill actually reads. Taken as written, if that was indeed their intent, Discovery and the other retired shuttles would be exempt, as the winged orbiters were never part of that program. A request for clarification sent to both Congress members' offices was not immediately answered.)

In the letter, Cornyn and Weber cited the Anti-Lobbying Act as restricting the use of funds provided by the federal government to "influence members of the public to pressure Congress regarding legislation or appropriations matters."

"As the Smithsonian Institution receives annual appropriations from Congress, it is subject to the restrictions imposed by this statute," they wrote.

The money that Congress allocates to the Smithsonian accounts for about two-thirds of the Institution's annual budget, primarily covering federal staff salaries, collections care, facilities maintenance, and the construction and revitalization of the buildings that house the Smithsonian's 21 museums and other centers.

Pols want Smithsonian to stay mum

As evidence of the Smithsonian's alleged wrongdoing, Cornyn and Weber cited a July 11 article by Zach Vasile for Flying Magazine, which ran under the headline "Smithsonian Pushing Back on Plans to Relocate Space Shuttle." Vasile quoted from a message the Institution sent to Congress saying that there was no precedent for removing an object from its collection to send it elsewhere.

The Texas officials wrote that the anti-lobbying restrictions apply to "staff time or public relations resources" and claimed that the Smithsonian's actions did not fall under the law's exemptions, including "public speeches, incidental expenditures for public education or communications, or activities unrelated to legislation or appropriations."

Cornyn and Weber urged Roberts, as the head of the Smithsonian's Board of Regents, to "conduct a comprehensive internal review" as it applied to how the institution responded to the One Big Beautiful Bill Act.

"Should the review reveal that appropriated funds were used in a manner inconsistent with the prohibitions outlined in the Anti-Lobbying Act, we respectfully request that immediate and appropriate corrective measures be implemented to ensure the Institution's full compliance with all applicable statutory and ethical obligations," Cornyn and Weber wrote.

 

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