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Posted

We had a closing date with a mortgage lender set up for Monday. The lending agent has been non-responsive for several days and sent me an email at 5:00pm saying that her dad was in the ICU and she needed X documents from us. One document was sent a week ago, one was regarding a business that I sold 20 years ago, and one was regarding a reappraisal that was done for an exceedingly stupid reason. She says that the underwriter will look at the appraisal Monday morning. Uhh, that is our freaking closing date.

How the hell does the lender know if the sellers are going to be cool changing the date and what are we going to have to offer to extend the date? Anyway, the question is whether there is any recourse against a lender? It seems like the answer is no because they haven't committed to anything yet since the underwriter hasn't signed off on the loan yet. We have movers coming on Monday and god knows where they are going to move our stuff to. It seems like the lending agent has fucked us over with promises only to miss the deadline and they haven't even given us a new closing date. All we have is a conditional approval which apparently means jack shit if the lending agent has other things to tend to and doesn't forward documents or contact her underwriting team.

Maybe I wouldn't be so pissed if the lending agent didn't wait until after the last minute to tell us anything, leaving everyone not knowing what was going and not even providing a new closing date. 2 days ago if she would have told us that her dad was in the ICU and it was going to delay closing, then we could have easily said something to all parties and changed the date. Doing it at 5pm on Friday - that's bullshit.

Posted

Phil's a good guy.   If he needs pics of your wife's tits to verify that you are who you say you are, it's OK to send them over.  It's standard procedure. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Phil, don't forget to PM me the tit pics)

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Posted
11 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Phil's a good guy.   If he needs pics of your wife's tits to verify that you are who you say you are, it's OK to send them over.  It's standard procedure. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Phil, don't forget to PM me the tit pics)

Careful what you are asking for…..given the OP’s username.

 

IMG_5497.jpeg

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Posted

I think the legal scenario here is the move of the closing date is a breach of the contract by you.  If the seller would rather hold you to it than just see what happens.

The damages to the seller would be hard to prove, but they're theoretically entitled to your earnest money.

If that scenario was to take place (seller accuse you of breach), you would certainly have a claim against the lender.

If the seller agrees to modify the closing date, you pretty much got nothing.

 

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Posted
3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think the legal scenario here is the move of the closing date is a breach of the contract by you.  If the seller would rather hold you to it than just see what happens.

The damages to the seller would be hard to prove, but they're theoretically entitled to your earnest money.

If that scenario was to take place (seller accuse you of breach), you would certainly have a claim against the lender.

If the seller agrees to modify the closing date, you pretty much got nothing.

 

This is in line with my thinking. But, currently I don't think it will come to that.

After my wife got in touch with the lending agent, I am more confident that it will all work out. Now the lending agent is probably blowing smoke, but it seems like the situation isn't nearly as screwed up as her assistant made it out to be. It sounds like the underwriter has all the documents that she needs and can look at the reappraisal on Monday morning and approve funding that same day. We would have to do remote signing so that will delay funding for a day. I don't think anyone would care about that.

Now, based on likely scenarios, if the lending agent's dad passes away this weekend, her assistant is pretty useless and things could go sideways quickly. Someone will have to follow-up with the underwriter to get the funding of the loan approved on Monday. And it is always possible that the underwriter wants more irrelevant documents. 

Different time zones make things difficult with the lending agent on ET, the bank on CT, and the property on MT. And we have no idea where we are signing since I am in Montana and the wife is in Texas so I assume we will be frantically trying to figure it out on Monday while we are at work. Still, I guess it is theoretically possible to get the funding approved Monday and sign late in the day on Monday for a Tuesday close date. That isn't usually how it works but it is a private bank with tailored mortgage loans for physicians so maybe they are more flexible. 

Posted
4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think the legal scenario here is the move of the closing date is a breach of the contract by you.  If the seller would rather hold you to it than just see what happens.

The damages to the seller would be hard to prove, but they're theoretically entitled to your earnest money.

If that scenario was to take place (seller accuse you of breach), you would certainly have a claim against the lender.

If the seller agrees to modify the closing date, you pretty much got nothing.

 

So just a few points of clarification. Your real estate agent should have already been aware of the pending finance commit date from the contract, seen that the lender was going to miss it, and then renegotiated a new closing date with the seller. If the seller refused, then you could have exited the contract without losing your earnest money. But because your realtor failed you, you got stuck with the liability. You would also unlikely have any recourse against the lender because you should have either exited the contract or extended the closing period.  

Posted
4 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

So just a few points of clarification. Your real estate agent should have already been aware of the pending finance commit date from the contract, seen that the lender was going to miss it, and then renegotiated a new closing date with the seller. If the seller refused, then you could have exited the contract without losing your earnest money. But because your realtor failed you, you got stuck with the liability. You would also unlikely have any recourse against the lender because you should have either exited the contract or extended the closing period.  

I don't actually think the buyer has the right to exit the contract if the seller won't agree to a new closing date.  Technically speaking, if you aren't funded on the closing date, you're in breach.  But the damages are probably going to be small and not worth the headache of the lawsuit that will be filed by the title company/escrow agent if a breach is declared.

Therefore, as a practical matter, a new closing date should be agreed to and yeah, the buyer's agent should have been proactive on that so the closing date doesn't pass unfunded, thereby creating a breach.

Posted
2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't actually think the buyer has the right to exit the contract if the seller won't agree to a new closing date.  Technically speaking, if you aren't funded on the closing date, you're in breach.  But the damages are probably going to be small and not worth the headache of the lawsuit that will be filed by the title company/escrow agent if a breach is declared.

Therefore, as a practical matter, a new closing date should be agreed to and yeah, the buyer's agent should have been proactive on that so the closing date doesn't pass unfunded, thereby creating a breach.

Every contract has a financing date. That date is well before closing day. If they don’t have lender approval by that date, they can exit the contract without losing earnest money.
The buyer and buyer’s agent should have verified they were approved and the lender was ready for closing. They didn’t. 

Now, there is a scenario where the lender approves the loan before closing, but then on closing day renegs. That’s a different scenario. Based on OP post, I don’t think that is what happened here. 

Posted

Unless it's a one man shop, why don't they have someone who can pick up the slack. And title could have helped and stepped in. A processor could have. He'll the AE for the lender could have. I'm not saying any of them should have. But they could have if someone's dying. But as Doug alluded to several balls were dropped, none of which you did. I think you'll be fine, but you should be rightfully annoyed how many people failed you in the process 

Posted
11 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Every contract has a financing date. That date is well before closing day. If they don’t have lender approval by that date, they can exit the contract without losing earnest money.
The buyer and buyer’s agent should have verified they were approved and the lender was ready for closing. They didn’t. 

Now, there is a scenario where the lender approves the loan before closing, but then on closing day renegs. That’s a different scenario. Based on OP post, I don’t think that is what happened here. 

Well fair point, but not every contract.  Those with a third-party financing addendum, with certain boxes checked.

Posted
30 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well fair point, but not every contract.  Those with a third-party financing addendum, with certain boxes checked.

Which is pretty much every contract for normies. 

Posted
5 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

Every contract has a financing date. That date is well before closing day. If they don’t have lender approval by that date, they can exit the contract without losing earnest money.
The buyer and buyer’s agent should have verified they were approved and the lender was ready for closing. They didn’t. 

Now, there is a scenario where the lender approves the loan before closing, but then on closing day renegs. That’s a different scenario. Based on OP post, I don’t think that is what happened here. 

yeah no

 

lender "approval" is very different from closing.  My last deal, the buyer worked for a small company.  We got loan approval, released our loan contingency, and moved forward to our closing date.  A "funding condition" was verification of buyer's employment on the day of funding.  Turns out, the HR lady was out sick that day, and nobody else in the company had the authority to verify her employment, so we got delayed a couple days.

Every loan I've seen gets an approval subject to "funding conditions".

Posted
11 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

yeah no

 

lender "approval" is very different from closing.  My last deal, the buyer worked for a small company.  We got loan approval, released our loan contingency, and moved forward to our closing date.  A "funding condition" was verification of buyer's employment on the day of funding.  Turns out, the HR lady was out sick that day, and nobody else in the company had the authority to verify her employment, so we got delayed a couple days.

Every loan I've seen gets an approval subject to "funding conditions".

Well, we are talking mostly TREC contracts, and it looks like Bevo's contract may be in Montana, and you're in Cali, so the sort of standard terms may not be so standard, elsewhere.

But, you're right, approval does not necessarily equal funding.  And the form provisions (as opposed to something the realtors or parties make up) only addresses approval.

So, a buyer could receive the requisite approval but the financing doesn't fund on closing for whatever stupid reason.  The buyer then is technically in breach of the contract and would probably have a claim against the financing entity.

But in the real world, in 99/100 cases, the closing date isn't that critical and everyone would rather move it a few days than go through the hassle of a lawsuit.  Or if it's that big a deal, fucking rescind the contract altogether.

Posted

Pre-approval, conditional approval, clear to close, and funding are all different stages of a mortgage loan, and all need to be met at different points. 
 

brokers, lenders, title agents, and realtors all interact with buyers and sellers and they all do variably good or bad jobs of explaining and preparing them about these things and what will need to be met, what could go wrong, and what to do about it. 
 

final VOE is common, but usually the buyer doesn’t get told about it. With small employers that can be an issue, to use the example above.  Maybe pulling a final credit report to verify no new debt obligations is another one- most buyers are warned about this at the beginning of the process. 
 

basically, the industry expects buyers and sellers to be flexible with these things and the buyer/seller facing folks use their salesmanship to keep them on the hook.  The other choice would be to start over.  It’s also why cash offers for somewhat less money are really attractive options.  No loan underwriting, no money sourcing, just a title review and wire transfer. 

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