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TIL there’s something called fraud tourism. Congrats, Minnesota.


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Posted
On 12/19/2025 at 2:51 PM, Vato Macho said:

The magnitude cannot be overstated," Thompson said. 

 Very clearly it can be, and has been

 

also fuck off gruhorn

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Posted

Very telling I didn't see who posted it but just read the headline and knew it was made up trumpy bullshit. 

New American national motto should be

"Show your evidence or go fuck yourself"

 

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Posted

It seems like the admin is trying to use a real and known fraud issue to score political points. I will not be surprised if there is a lot more uncovered although as can been seen here, the way they peruse these announcements raises reasonable doubt as to scope and purpose. 
 

The Biden DOJ identified what it called “the largest pandemic fraud scheme uncovered to date” in Minn. $250 million for fake meals for kids. Also in 2024, the FBI came down on a interlinked autism center scam. There is massive fraud in this area. Both of these links and the initial investigations began before DJTII. 
 

Quote

The number of autism centers and the dollar amount of reimbursement claims in Minnesota have exploded since the pandemic. A total of $32.4 million in Medicaid funds were paid out to autism centers in 2020. That number ballooned to $228 million so far this year. (The dollar figures used here, provided by DHS through data practice requests from months ago, differ from the numbers in the federal search warrant.)

 

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Feeding Our Future was a Minnesota nonprofit founded in 2016. During the COVID-19 pandemic, it claimed to distribute many thousands of meals to schoolchildren, but instead stole hundreds of millions of dollars while providing few or no meals at most of its locations. Merrick Garland, attorney general during the Biden administration, called it the country’s largest pandemic relief fraud scheme


 

https://www.valleynewslive.com/2024/12/14/2-minnesota-autism-centers-raided-by-fbi-part-wider-fraud-investigation/?outputType=amp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeding_Our_Future



I believe at this point something like 68 of 70 defendants in these schemes were Somali. Amazing to deny that stuff like this can’t take off and become a major issue in a particular ethnic enclave. Waiting to hear that La Cosa Nostra never existed and was just anti-Italian prejudice all along. 
 

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 A Somali American investigator for the Attorney General of Minnesota's office, Kayseh Magan, suggested that these accusations of racism made against state agencies led to hesitancy in taking action against Feeding Our Future. Magan argued that the Somali American community's close social cohesion led to a disconnect between fraudulent activity and public attention; he also suggested that some fraudsters have used accusations of racism against investigators to avoid accountability


 

Posted
7 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It seems like the admin is trying to use a real and known fraud issue to score political points. I will not be surprised if there is a lot more uncovered although as can been seen here, the way they peruse these announcements raises reasonable doubt as to scope and purpose. 
 

The Biden DOJ identified what it called “the largest pandemic fraud scheme uncovered to date” in Minn. $250 million for fake meals for kids. Also in 2024, the FBI came down on a interlinked autism center scam. There is massive fraud in this area. Both of these links and the initial investigations began before DJTII. 
 

 


 

https://www.valleynewslive.com/2024/12/14/2-minnesota-autism-centers-raided-by-fbi-part-wider-fraud-investigation/?outputType=amp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeding_Our_Future



I believe at this point something like 68 of 70 defendants in these schemes were Somali. Amazing to deny that stuff like this can’t take off and become a major issue in a particular ethnic enclave. Waiting to hear that La Cosa Nostra never existed and was just anti-Italian prejudice all along. 
 


 

I did take calculus but it was a while ago so help me here. What percentage of 9 billion is 250 million? 

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Posted

For some reason, Africans seem to be perpetrators of these medical frauds, Nigerians especially.

One reason, it seems a fair number of them have medical or patient-care credentials.

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Posted
15 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It seems like the admin is trying to use a real and known fraud issue to score political points. I will not be surprised if there is a lot more uncovered although as can been seen here, the way they peruse these announcements raises reasonable doubt as to scope and purpose. 
 

The Biden DOJ identified what it called “the largest pandemic fraud scheme uncovered to date” in Minn. $250 million for fake meals for kids. Also in 2024, the FBI came down on a interlinked autism center scam. There is massive fraud in this area. Both of these links and the initial investigations began before DJTII. 
 

 


 

https://www.valleynewslive.com/2024/12/14/2-minnesota-autism-centers-raided-by-fbi-part-wider-fraud-investigation/?outputType=amp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeding_Our_Future



I believe at this point something like 68 of 70 defendants in these schemes were Somali. Amazing to deny that stuff like this can’t take off and become a major issue in a particular ethnic enclave. Waiting to hear that La Cosa Nostra never existed and was just anti-Italian prejudice all along. 
 


 

Who is denying that things like that can happen?

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Posted
14 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I did take calculus but it was a while ago so help me here. What percentage of 9 billion is 250 million? 

We’ve gone from “maybe a couple million” upthread to over $250 already. A few hundred million here, a few hundred million there— pretty soon maybe it isn’t small-time fraud? 

Posted (edited)

No one's denying that fraud occurs, even on a massive scale.

But they're alleging $9B in fraud, without evidence (as media likes to say), and slandering Somalis in the process.

There may be a pony in there somewhere, but this is a load of shit.

Also, look at how legitimate DOJ press releases that allege massive fraud work in the past:  they cite indictments and actual loss numbers, even if those may be subject to proof and "optimistic" or overstated.

Rarely do you see a $2.1M indictment, not against Somalian defendants, that leads to an unsupported speculation of $9B in losses attributable to Somalis.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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Posted
5 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

We’ve gone from “maybe a couple million” upthread to over $250 already. A few hundred million here, a few hundred million there— pretty soon maybe it isn’t small-time fraud? 

Again, what is the percentage of what has been found vs what a literal federal prosecutor is implying?

 

If you want to see what large scale fraud looks like google “operation gold rush” 

I'm sure pardons will be coming soon for the main players there. 

Posted
19 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

For some reason, Africans seem to be perpetrators of these medical frauds, Nigerians especially.

One reason, it seems a fair number of them have medical or patient-care credentials.

No, there is not an overwhelming number of Somali doctors. The fraud is in that community because basically the entire community is on Medicaid. And this FactCheck flagged another hundred million or so. 
 

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Then, in September, federal prosecutors brought wire fraud charges against eight individuals for a scheme to defraud Minnesota’s federally funded Housing Stabilization Services Program, which began in 2020 to help seniors and other people with disabilities find and maintain housing. State officials ended the program in October because of fraud concerns.

Prosecutors said the perpetrators enrolled in the program, which was financed through Medicaid, as providers of various housing services. “Rather than provide such help, the defendants obtained and misappropriated millions of dollars in program funds that were intended as reimbursements for services provided to those people,” prosecutors said in a press release about the charges.

The program’s cost, initially expected to be about $2.6 million annually, ballooned from $21 million in 2021 to $104 million in 2024 — much of it attributed to fraud, according to a federal investigation. Prosecutors said the program’s “low barriers to entry and minimal records requirements for reimbursement” made it “susceptible to fraud.”

 

Quote

Update, Dec. 17: We updated this article to include additional information that Minnesota’s state demographer provided to us showing 84% of individuals reporting Somali ancestry in Minnesota — not just Somali immigrants — benefited from specific public assistance programs, mostly Medicaid.

https://www.factcheck.org/2025/12/probing-trumps-verbal-attack-on-somalis/
 

 

Posted
23 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

For some reason, Africans seem to be perpetrators of these medical frauds, Nigerians especially.

One reason, it seems a fair number of them have medical or patient-care credentials.

And are princes

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

We’ve gone from “maybe a couple million” upthread to over $250 already. A few hundred million here, a few hundred million there— pretty soon maybe it isn’t small-time fraud? 

Well, then I guess we must believe that all Ukrainians are nazis because of few them might be, right? This is a disappointing take for you. I generally like you as a poster, but come on, they have evidence of small fraud in this particular instance and use it speculate that half the states Medicaid disbursements must be fraudulent. That's ridiculous and irresponsible. That's the only thing we have pushed back on. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Posted

I don't blame Incred for trolling the thread. It's hard to effectively troll these days when you're part of the "pro child rape" constituency. 

Breath of fresh air for him!

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

It seems like the admin is trying to use a real and known fraud issue to score political points. I will not be surprised if there is a lot more uncovered although as can been seen here, the way they peruse these announcements raises reasonable doubt as to scope and purpose. 
 

The Biden DOJ identified what it called “the largest pandemic fraud scheme uncovered to date” in Minn. $250 million for fake meals for kids. Also in 2024, the FBI came down on a interlinked autism center scam. There is massive fraud in this area. Both of these links and the initial investigations began before DJTII. 
 

 


 

https://www.valleynewslive.com/2024/12/14/2-minnesota-autism-centers-raided-by-fbi-part-wider-fraud-investigation/?outputType=amp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeding_Our_Future



I believe at this point something like 68 of 70 defendants in these schemes were Somali. Amazing to deny that stuff like this can’t take off and become a major issue in a particular ethnic enclave. Waiting to hear that La Cosa Nostra never existed and was just anti-Italian prejudice all along. 
 


 

Good post, weird thread. There seems to be a reactive push to describe the fraud as immaterial. The actual situation is that it is one of the largest social services fraud scandals in the state’s history, has had significant political fallout over the past few years and is being seized by MAGA as a key issue in the gubernatorial race - which is why the bogus $9 billion figure just dropped. Not sure why that’s controversial. 

Posted
4 minutes ago, We’reTexas said:

Good post, weird thread. There seems to be a reactive push to describe the fraud as immaterial. The actual situation is that it is one of the largest social services fraud scandals in the state’s history, has had significant political fallout over the past few years and is being seized by MAGA as a key issue in the gubernatorial race - which is why the bogus $9 billion figure just dropped. Not sure why that’s controversial. 

You're misreading the thread. 

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Posted
47 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Well, then I guess we must believe that all Ukrainians are nazis because of few them might be, right? This is a disappointing take for you. I generally like you as a poster, but come on, they have evidence of small fraud in this particular instance and use it speculate that half the states Medicaid disbursements must be fraudulent. That's ridiculous and irresponsible. That's the only thing we have pushed back on. 

Working with Ukraine will make you extremely sanguine about this stuff. First, if you lift up one corner of the rock and find the largest pandemic relief scam, you can be certain that lifting the rest will be a nightmare. That is not “small fraud,” it’s massive fraud and an indicator of deeper issues. 
 

If anyone wanted to enter a business deal with a Ukrainian group, I’d have to warn them that Ukraine is a high-fraud country and that a century of Soviet or Russian direct/indirect rule had created a culture of seriously different ethics and business norms. That corruption became so pervasive that most people who even tried to be honest would look the other way because of its centrality to how things work. I’d warn you to do extra fact-checking, extra diligence, and still be prepared to lose money along the way. 

If you were prepping a similar deal with Danes, I’d tell you to you could likely believe every word you heard and that you should prep to be more transparent and honest yourself. It’s a radically different culture and norm. That the concept of “a favor” doesn’t exist.
 

I cannot afford to be stupid and naive when explaining differences in norms and risks when making judgments about how to work with different foreign groups. 
 

Somali culture is clannish and insular and shaped on ethical norms even more foreign than Ukrainian. The community is virtually all on state assistance. It is not at all surprising that there is high fraud there. A bit of extra scrutiny on these programs and payouts based on where they would go, up front, could save a lot of heartburn later. 
 

Stupidity and naïveté should not be confused with virtues.

Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Working with Ukraine will make you extremely sanguine about this stuff. First, if you lift up one corner of the rock and find the largest pandemic relief scam, you can be certain that lifting the rest will be a nightmare. That is not “small fraud,” it’s massive fraud and an indicator of deeper issues. 
 

If anyone wanted to enter a business deal with a Ukrainian group, I’d have to warn them that Ukraine is a high-fraud country and that a century of Soviet or Russian direct/indirect rule had created a culture of seriously different ethics and business norms. That corruption became so pervasive that most people who even tried to be honest would look the other way because of its centrality to how things work. I’d warn you to do extra fact-checking, extra diligence, and still be prepared to lose money along the way. 

If you were prepping a similar deal with Danes, I’d tell you to you could likely believe every word you heard and that you should prep to be more transparent and honest yourself. It’s a radically different culture and norm. That the concept of “a favor” doesn’t exist.
 

I cannot afford to be stupid and naive when explaining differences in norms and risks when making judgments about how to work with different foreign groups. 
 

Somali culture is clannish and insular and shaped on ethical norms even more foreign than Ukrainian. The community is virtually all on state assistance. It is not at all surprising that there is high fraud there. A bit of extra scrutiny on these programs and payouts based on where they would go, up front, could save a lot of heartburn later. 
 

Stupidity and naïveté should not be confused with virtues.

Again, what the fuck are you talking about? I'm talking about this specific release involving a couple million in alleged fraud and extrapolating into billions based upon literally nothing. Whether or not other significant fraud exists, I don't know, but would not be surprised. I haven't said anything about Somalis or made a pronouncement that certain social groups may or may not be more connected to this sort of fraud. Half the states Medicaid isn't fraudulent. That's not how this works. I have enough experience pursuing these to know how they work, how prevalent they can be, and how bad data analysis leads to absurd conclusions. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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Posted (edited)

If my post about Springfield has added to this idea that people are downplaying the fraud or claiming it to be false altogether, I want to clarify that it was only meant to say don’t trust this group of Republicans in office to be truthful.  Specifically in relation to the scope of the fraud, and super specifically when comes to being able to target a demographic that they hate. 

Edited by Pato del Muerto
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Posted
3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Again, what the fuck are you talking about? I'm talking about this specific release involving a couple million in alleged fraud and extrapolating into billions based upon literally nothing. Whether or not other significant fraud exists, I don't know, but would not be surprised. I haven't said anything about Somalis or made a pronouncement that certain social groups may or may not be more connected to this sort of fraud. Half the states Medicaid isn't fraudulent. That's not how this works. I have enough experience pursuing these to know how they work, how prevalent they can be, and how bad data analysis leads to absurd conclusions. 

Well, for one you’re reading the article wrong. It alleges that 9 billion is part of 18 billion being examined since 2018.  Minnesota spends about 19b per year. So the real percentage under question is less than 10 percent of total payouts.

Second, the 18 billion over six years is in programs already deemed high-fraud risk, listed below. The state has seen over double the amount of payouts under some of these balloon since the pandemic. 
 

Lots of people not reading carefully and responding to a scenario they made up. 

Quote

 

Early Intensive Developmental and Behavioral Intervention services for autism

Integrated Community Supports

Nonemergency Medical Transportation

Peer Recovery Services

Adult Rehabilitative Mental Health Services

Adult Day Services

Personal Care Assistance/Community First Services and Supports

Recuperative Care

Individualized Home Supports

Adult Companion Services

Night Supervision

Assertive Community Treatment

Intensive Residential Treatment Services

Housing Stabilization Services

Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Well, for one you’re reading the article wrong. It alleges that 9 billion is part of 18 billion being examined since 2018.  Minnesota spends about 19b per year. So the real percentage under question is less than 10 percent of total payouts.

No, I'm not:

 

image.png.613169a4c510520f72a8dc495135cc6d.png

The allegation is that half of the $18 billion paid by Minnesota Medicaid payments have been fraudulent. Grammatically, that is saying that half of the money paid out by Medicaid is fraudulent. That's the part that is bullshit. If the article and Mr. Thompson meant to say something different, then that is on them and not me. As presented, the article is misleading. In particular, I find this statement troubling:

Quote

When I look at the claims data and the providers, I see more red flags than I see legitimate providers.

That's a red flag to me. I know what claims data looks like. I deal with it a lot. This sounds a lot like with DOGE scrubbed data without any understanding of what it was actually looking at. Again, an audit is under way. We should have better understanding once actual data and evidence is released. If there is fraud, prosecute it. But don't make sweeping and staggering pronouncements without significant evidence to back it up. 
 

Quote

Lots of people not reading carefully and responding to a scenario they made up. 

I agree, you're definitely doing that. 

 

Edited by Dahobbs
Posted

Ever watch a national broadcast of your favorite local team, only to be annoyed and frustrated that their talking points are largely surface level, superficial, hyperbolic, or outright old-news?

Yeah.  Me right now.

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Posted

@Dahobbs you are 100 percent reading it wrong because you looked at the Tweet and not the article. It is not possible to continue until you back down and admit that. 
 

Quote

A top prosecutor suggested on Thursday that the total amount of fraud in Minnesota could be $9 billion or more.

According to First Assistant U.S. Attorney Joe Thompson, 14 Medicaid services under audit and deemed "high risk" for fraud have cost the state $18 billion since 2018.

Clicking through. Which you are allowed to do. 
 

Quote

Gov. Tim Walz on Wednesday said that a third party will audit billing for 14 Medicaid services that are deemed to be "high risk" for fraud in Minnesota.

The claim by the attorney is that up to half of payments since 2018 across 14 services already deemed high-risk may be fraud. Maybe it’s bullshit, but that’s the claim.

Minnesota’s annual Medicaid payout was a bit over 18 billion in 2024. So over six years, about a sixth of that was spent in programs that Walz determined high-fraud risk. And the allegation from the AAG is that maybe half of that was fraud. 

Posted

I will fully agree that Weiss’ editors are shit. The first sentences should have been:

”Minnesota is auditing approximately $18 billion spent since 2018 across 14 Medicaid programs that were designated “high fraud risk. A U.S. prosecutor says that up to $9 billion may have been fraudulently spent.” 

Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

@Dahobbs you are 100 percent reading it wrong because you looked at the Tweet and not the article. It is not possible to continue until you back down and admit that. 
 

Clicking through. Which you are allowed to do. 
 

The claim by the attorney is that up to half of payments since 2018 across 14 services already deemed high-risk may be fraud. Maybe it’s bullshit, but that’s the claim.

Minnesota’s annual Medicaid payout was a bit over 18 billion in 2024. So over six years, about a sixth of that was spent in programs that Walz determined high-fraud risk. And the allegation from the AAG is that maybe half of that was fraud. 

I've read both. The tweet is part of the article. If the tweet is incorrect, then that is on them and not me. We can't get anywhere until you admit it is misleading. I've gone through the material, and it frankly isn't clear what either the article or the US attorney's office are referring to. You may be correct. But I don't think that changes the substance of my problem: they are making sweeping generalizations based upon one specific instance of indicted fraud and what sounds like pretty surface level data review. If there is more, they should pursue it. 

Again, a few hundred million in fraud wouldn't surprise me. And I'm all for prosecuting it. But I'm not believing the $9 billion number without a lot of evidence. And I'm calling out the unusual prosecutorial conduct in commenting on unindicted fraud. Put up or shut up. I have a strong distaste for using the US Attorney's office to attempt to score political points, particularly when it isn't connected to indicted crimes or those without substantial evidence. I think it looks bad on our profession and is a violation of the duty of an officer of the court. 

Edited by Dahobbs
Posted
1 hour ago, We’reTexas said:

There seems to be a reactive push to describe the fraud as immaterial

Disputing it is 9B is not describing it as immaterial 



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