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The Debilitating Effect of Misdirection


sushihorn

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41 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

I was trying to think of a simpler summary.  That opening drive was like watching Jackie Chan chain punch some dude until he doesn't know where the punches are coming from.  Georgia's defense never fully recovered from that.

Or when he stops punching and the guy keeps trying to block him. 

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The Texas defense suffered this exact confusion in both games against UMd. Once you start thinking instead of playing, you're finished.

Thanks, Sushi, for all  your work. Learning to watch things like this really increases my understanding of football.

PS: Watch Sam Cosmi work this play. From leaving his stance, to the short, choppy tap steps he takes (always keeping his base firm), and working hand over hand across his assigned target until he reaches position - then working downfield picking out n-ary level defenders to block. When fans see a QB that can't find open receivers or RBs who can't gain ground, in reality it's the OL that aren't up to the task. Herb Hand, Yancy McKnight, and the incredible dedication by guys who only hear their number called for penalties enable this type of production.

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3 minutes ago, Machinator said:

The other side of the coin to this is that misdirection killed our defense all season long yet Georgia didn't bother with it. I saw maybe one jet sweep action from them the whole game.

That was Scipio's big point in his article about the offense - UGA thought they could roll out their vanilla offense and steamroller us, and hadn't prepped for that not working.

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1 minute ago, texifornia said:

That was Scipio's big point in his article about the offense - UGA thought they could roll out their vanilla offense and steamroller us, and hadn't prepped for that not working.

Right up there with "Colt will never get that same shoulder hurt again, we'll never need our freshman QB who can't even find his helmet..."

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23 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Loved the way Cosmi shed the DE to continue down field.  I'll be real interested to see how he handles LT next year (if that's where he ends up).

I hope thats where he ends up. Smart and physical enough to run block well, but his work ethic and hopefully footwork improvement get him to that elite blind side pass blocker level too. Thats where the $ is.

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1 hour ago, Machinator said:

The other side of the coin to this is that misdirection killed our defense all season long yet Georgia didn't bother with it. I saw maybe one jet sweep action from them the whole game.

That was my main concern going into the Sugar Bowl. But jawja thought secsecsec play calling was better.

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How much misdirection did UGA run during the regular season?

You can't just decide to add those plays if you don't have a grounding in them. You end up with pulling tackles tripping over centers and WRs fumbling the hand off exchanges.

Their defense tried to add pass rushing wrinkles, and ended up getting tied in knots.

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54 minutes ago, runthebone said:

The one we didn't give enough snaps to during the season?

The one who was so obviously destined for greatness that we didn't recruit a QB the year prior and took only him that year. The one who got all the snaps that should have gone to the Junior backup QB? The one whose dad still holds the record for Super Bowl futility at backup QB? The one who couldn't see the signals from the sideline without squinting?

Yeah, that one.

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29 minutes ago, SA-KC_Horn said:

That was my main concern going into the Sugar Bowl. But jawja thought secsecsec play calling was better.

 

4 minutes ago, GoldAppleCorps said:

How much misdirection did UGA run during the regular season?

You can't just decide to add those plays if you don't have a grounding in them. You end up with pulling tackles tripping over centers and WRs fumbling the hand off exchanges.

Their defense tried to add pass rushing wrinkles, and ended up getting tied in knots.


Misdirection was way down the list of concerns for me.  Kirby is very conservative and conventional on both side of the ball.  He may be the most vanilla guy of his generation not named Van Winkle.

 

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19 minutes ago, SA-KC_Horn said:

Kirby and company are stubborn mofos, cuz they had close to a month to identify a weakness and didn't exploit it. 

Oh fucking well.

I have a feeling that L$U will stick to their guns and try to out muscle Texas.

Aranda is a fantastic DC who'll have watched this game. He'll have some wrinkles for us.

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6 hours ago, SA-KC_Horn said:

Kirby and company are stubborn mofos, cuz they had close to a month to identify a weakness and didn't exploit it. 

Oh fucking well.

I have a feeling that L$U will stick to their guns and try to out muscle Texas.

Which will be hilarious. Because in the Big 12 this defense sees a thousand different innovative and aggressive offenses. LSU rolls in with that basic high school offense thinking it will just manhandle us - just like Gawgia. 

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I remember that 3rd qtr run play well because I credited it to Watson's vision. Now that it's pointed it out, I see that it was intended to bounce outside all along. Rodriguez barely helps on the DT at all and moves forward to get the LB which helps add yards to the end of the run. To the OP's point, the misdirection is what froze the DT and the LB to allow Shack and Rodriguez to get to them. It's the sort of play that Texas got gashed with all year long. Very satisfying to see it work in our favor for once.

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Kirby was right about one thing.  Georgia was outplayed, outoughed, and as explained abovevin great detail, outcorched.  What I don't get is where Jake Fromm's accuracy went in four weeks.  He was pinpoint accurate vs Alabama in the SECCG but in the Sugar bowl at times couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle.  Kudos to the Horns.  Hope to see you guys in NOLA again next year for the championship.

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12 hours ago, Bama Llama said:

Kirby was right about one thing.  Georgia was outplayed, outoughed, and as explained abovevin great detail, outcorched.  What I don't get is where Jake Fromm's accuracy went in four weeks.  He was pinpoint accurate vs Alabama in the SECCG but in the Sugar bowl at times couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle.  Kudos to the Horns.  Hope to see you guys in NOLA again next year for the championship.

Saw a stat on Fromms passing, too lazy to look up but his numbers go way down when he has to pass the ball around thirty times or more. Keeping it under twenty five he has much better numbers. Texas came out and rocked Georgia early, slowed down their run game and got a big lead. He had to pass and couldn't do it. If I remember correctly the three games he passed thirty or more times were all losses.

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13 hours ago, Bama Llama said:

Kirby was right about one thing.  Georgia was outplayed, outoughed, and as explained abovevin great detail, outcorched.  What I don't get is where Jake Fromm's accuracy went in four weeks.  He was pinpoint accurate vs Alabama in the SECCG but in the Sugar bowl at times couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle.  Kudos to the Horns.  Hope to see you guys in NOLA again next year for the championship.

Saban uses pattern match to achieve tight coverage while maintaining most of the advantages of zone.  Orlando creates total confusion by moving pieces all over the field in unexpected ways, like dropping a DE into the middle as a robber cover man.  Pattern match creates a simple read but a difficult throw, which plays to Fromm's physically talented but limited reading comprehension of coverage.  He can make the throws if he can figure out where to throw it.

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1 hour ago, bornbama1 said:

Saw a stat on Fromms passing, too lazy to look up but his numbers go way down when he has to pass the ball around thirty times or more. Keeping it under twenty five he has much better numbers. Texas came out and rocked Georgia early, slowed down their run game and got a big lead. He had to pass and couldn't do it. If I remember correctly the three games he passed thirty or more times were all losses.

When Jake Fromm is forced to pass against a defense expecting it, his effectiveness declines dramatically.  That's why it was so easy to discount his pass efficiency numbers, which were built at the expense of opponents desperately trying to stop the run and distorting their defenses very badly in order to do so.  Also notice that a lot of "his" yardage is actually YAC by his very athletic receivers, especially against teams on the wrong end of a huge talent gap.  As a downfield passer he does not impress.  Partial exception in the Bama game.  Saban gave Fromm easy reads but he still made the tough throws.

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8 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

Orlando creates total confusion by moving pieces all over the field in unexpected ways, like dropping a DE into the middle as a robber cover man.  

1 hour ago, bornbama1 said:

If I remember correctly the three games he passed thirty or more times were all losses.

 

Interesting analyses with merit, but I was referring to simple swing passes or stop routes, plays that could have kept the chains moving, where it appeared to me that Shemp Howard was throwing the ball, e.g., late, behind, high, low, or just "off."  Credit the Horns D for he was discombobulated much of the game.

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5 minutes ago, Bama Llama said:

Interesting analyses with merit, but I was referring to simple swing passes or stop routes, plays that could have kept the chains moving, where it appeared to me that Shemp Howard was throwing the ball, e.g., late, behind, high, low, or just "off."  Credit the Horns D for he was discombobulated much of the game.

In the LSU game, blitz pressure reset the clock in Fromm's head.  It also forced him to move around which severely degrades his accuracy.  Most QBs lose some, Fromm's drops off a cliff.  You can be sure Herman and Orlando watched what LSU did to him, including this gem:

 

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In the clip you describe the defense is confused and they out leverage themselves. The LBs shifted with Watson, and at the snap the 3 tech steps inside allowing a single block by Shack. This allows E Rod to get to the 2nd level immeadiately and take away the otherwise free hitter. The playside DE gets setup by Watson. While the block is beautiful, Watson sets up the DE with an inside step, which forces him inside, than as Watson goes outside, Cosmi has leverage. The DE doesn’t really play it that bad, he just has no support spilling over the top. It’s clear that the uga defense was not necessarily on the same page.

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On 1/4/2019 at 11:49 AM, Zavala said:

I hope thats where he ends up. Smart and physical enough to run block well, but his work ethic and hopefully footwork improvement get him to that elite blind side pass blocker level too. Thats where the $ is.

Like that idea too, hopefully he hits the off-season hard. He’s gonna get tested.

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17 hours ago, Bama Llama said:

Kirby was right about one thing.  Georgia was outplayed, outoughed, and as explained abovevin great detail, outcorched.  What I don't get is where Jake Fromm's accuracy went in four weeks.  He was pinpoint accurate vs Alabama in the SECCG but in the Sugar bowl at times couldn't hit a bull in the ass with a bass fiddle.  Kudos to the Horns.  Hope to see you guys in NOLA again next year for the championship.

The Texas D pressure got to their QB. It was amazing how well we played on both sides. It was a different Texas team than the one which lost 4 games. It was the team that Coach Herman says can play with anybody.

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On 1/4/2019 at 8:20 AM, sushihorn said:

I was trying to think of a simpler summary.  That opening drive was like watching Jackie Chan chain punch some dude until he doesn't know where the punches are coming from.  Georgia's defense never fully recovered from that.

which one of y'all kicked me?

/christucker

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22 hours ago, taybo20 said:

In the clip you describe the defense is confused and they out leverage themselves. The LBs shifted with Watson, and at the snap the 3 tech steps inside allowing a single block by Shack. This allows E Rod to get to the 2nd level immeadiately and take away the otherwise free hitter. The playside DE gets setup by Watson. While the block is beautiful, Watson sets up the DE with an inside step, which forces him inside, than as Watson goes outside, Cosmi has leverage. The DE doesn’t really play it that bad, he just has no support spilling over the top. It’s clear that the uga defense was not necessarily on the same page.

All correct.  But in this situation I still think the DE needs to at least keep his outside shoulder free.  When aligned that wide, his primary responsibility has to be contain / C-gap.  Further, if Fromm was stunting and wanted to exchange responsibilities, the end should have crashed down rather than sitting there reading the play.  Last, while the DE has the best shot at the C-gap, the ILBs have the best chance to fill the B-gap.  Even if the playside LB gets blocked like here, the backside guy might be able to scrape to the playside B-gap.  As things stood, no way with a RB turning the corner quickly on a wide C-gap run and a DE with his shoulders turned and pushed back into the LBs' pursuit lane.

Your comment about Watson setting up the DE is especially salient.  In zone blocking most people know the RB picks a hole and reads his blocker.  But when really well executed it works like an option route - really tough to stop as long as the QB and WR are on the same page.  Not only were Cosmi and Watson on the same page, Tre's move was the equivalent of the QB looking off the safety then throwing the option route perfectly.

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I could be wrong. Maybe I’m reading this the wrong way. Perhaps, just maybe, Fromm isn’t actually all that good.

 

He’s a statue that can’t make throws us pressure is in his face or a decent defense reads him. A qb that can’t make throws. Or run.

 

 

And no discredit to Orlando and our boys on D. They played balls out. It’s just that we were hearing from everyone else about this prolific sec offense and passing game (as well as running game) and they came out flat for 3.5 quarters.

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On 1/5/2019 at 4:09 PM, Bama Llama said:

Watched it at the mark you listed on the YouTube.  Exhibit A to Fromm Flinching.  Point well taken.

I know Saban doesn't like to blitz and doesn't do it a lot.  He might want to make an exception for Fromm because pressure in his face and forcing him to throw on the move really hurts his performance.  The other mistake I think he made in the SEC CG was to play so many light boxes.  6 men and often 5 in the box just invited Georgia to do what they do best - allow Fromm to throw from a clean pocket while stationary and run the ball.  It was no anomaly either.  UK and LSU also got good results crowding the line a bunch.  I'm sure Saban watched the Sugar Bowl and is already drawing a slightly different D in case Georgia makes the CG next year.

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On 1/5/2019 at 9:36 AM, Bama Llama said:

Interesting analyses with merit, but I was referring to simple swing passes or stop routes, plays that could have kept the chains moving, where it appeared to me that Shemp Howard was throwing the ball, e.g., late, behind, high, low, or just "off."  Credit the Horns D for he was discombobulated much of the game.

When you're unsure of your coverage reads, these are the exact type passes that put your heart in your throat. Deep balls mean you've got to find a safety or nickel that went over the top. A mistake ends up being a 40 yard punt type turnover.

In close, where the money is made, everyone is a candidate. Did the ILB rotate over? The DE drop and become a robber? An extra safety spin down? Anyone could be in that passing lane, and the only one between a defender and the endzone is the QB and some hapless Guard on swing duty. Goof that one up, and they're playing the fight song.

Fromme is a perfectly cromulent QB. He can make textbook reads and textbook throws by using textbook mechanics. The Texas Defense handed him a Tijuana Bible and asked him to freelance. With essentially 3 turnovers to open play, he got put in the worst possible situation - needing to change the momentum without benefit of an overpowering run game.

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