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FBI vs. NCAA Coaches

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"Help with housing" - My neighbor is a real estate agent!  I bet she'll cut you a deal on her commission.  How's that work for ya? Nudge, nudge, wink wink (Am I doing this right?)"

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On 10/5/2018 at 1:04 PM, texasstrong12 said:

I also find it interesting that Texas was apparently vetting this in real time. I think Texas knew shit would eventually hit the fan with Bowen. Shaka was adamant that Texas stopped recruiting Bowen for these very reasons. 

I remember that press conference where Shaka mentioned they were no longer recruiting Bowen. Not sure if I'm remembering correctly but it seemed like it was towards the end of the cycle when his recruitment was getting crazy and one of the reporters asked why they weren't pursuing him as the best player at a position of need and he gave a "no comment" type answer. lulz at his dad not remembering if they were offered free housing from Texas

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9 minutes ago, angelfacedmongoloid said:

I remember that press conference where Shaka mentioned they were no longer recruiting Bowen. Not sure if I'm remembering correctly but it seemed like it was towards the end of the cycle when his recruitment was getting crazy and one of the reporters asked why they weren't pursuing him as the best player at a position of need and he gave a "no comment" type answer. lulz at his dad not remembering if they were offered free housing from Texas

I'm fairly certain Texas has receipts too. There were reputable posters on Orangebloods that said we backed off Bowen way before this FBI stuff even became public. 

There was a long discussion on shaggy about this because nobody could understand why we would be backing off a player of Bowen's caliber at a position of need. I remember this because I was one who was definitely in the group of "hey there's no way we are backing off Bowen". It makes sense now why Texas might have backed off. 

Bowen SR and Dawkins are complete scum and anybody with half a brain would have realized they shouldn't get involved with those two. 

 

Edited by texasstrong12

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3 hours ago, texasstrong12 said:

Bowen SR already backtracking. 

 

Thanks for clarifying AFTER the damage has been done, cocksucker. (Bowen, not texastrong 12 or Wetzel). A newspaper's correction/retraction (or, in this day and age, a retraction Tweet) never gets the attention the initial accusation does (or as many re-Tweets). 

Edited by SwanderedTalent
I think of something else!!!!!!

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Reading more about this and it’s hard to understand where the schools fit in. Obviously everyone has to of known this stuff was going on. But who knew what isn’t really what is on trial here. Very few coaches have been implicated and no schools have been implicated. What does that mean the ncaa is going to do? I just read express testimony that no one working for KU knew about the payments. If you believe that, which if you believe anything else the bag man is saying then you have to, then the only issue for KU is eligibility of de Sousa. Will the ncaa punish based on that? His guardian to $60k from a Maryland donor and was going to take $20k to get him to Kansas but the payment was never made. He should be ineligible but did the player know? Hard to believe he didn’t but figuring out if he knew or not isn’t the scope of the trial. Further, does the player knowing or not even matter?

very hard to see how this is all going to play out. 

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I guess it just means schools and coaches had no idea 100s of thousands of dollar were being moved around a so kid could play ball for a certain school. With as lily white as college athletics has been over the past 30-40 years, I'm sure schools and coaches are blindsided by all of this. It really feels like the loss of innocence here.

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yeah.  athletes driving around campus in 80K cars never draw any sort of suspicion.  I loved the excuse well, they are on scholarship so their parents can afford that car for them.  No school is innocent.  They've at least turned a blind eye to it.

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On Aug. 9. 2017, Gassnola texted Self, saying he talked with Fenny Falmagne, the guardian of recruit Silvio De Sousa. Self asked “we good” over text, and Gassnola replied “always,” saying this was light work and the ball was in Falmagne’s court now.

That same day, Gassnola texted Self to call him when he had five minutes and he was alone. The two had a five-minute, six-second phone conversation that day. The call was not wiretapped by the FBI nor played in court.

On Sept. 19, 2017 — three days before KU Athletics announced a 12-year contract extension with Adidas — Gassnola texted Self to tell him thank you for helping to get that extension done. Self replied via text that he was happy with Adidas and wrote “Just got to get a couple real guys.”

Gassnola responded with a text that said, “In my mind, it’s KU, Bill Self. Everyone else fall into line. Too (expletive) bad. That’s what’s right for Adidas basketball. And I know I’m right. The more you have lottery picks and you happy. That’s how it should work in my mind.” Self replied by text, “That’s how ur (sic) works. At UNC and Duke.” Gassnola answered by saying Kentucky as well. “I promise you I got this. I have never let you down. Except Deandre. Lol. We will get it right.”

In this case, Gassnola could be referring to center Deandre Ayton. Gassnola testified Thursday that he felt he let Self down when Ayton chose Arizona instead of KU.

On Aug. 26, 2017, KU’s assistant Townsend texted Gassnola a message he said was from Falmagne: “Coach has been on the phone with Angola. We are good to go. We will commit tomorrow.” Gassnola testified Thursday that he’d been in communication with Townsend about Falmagne because Falmagne was looking to get Adidas gear for the Angolan national team.

Gassnola said he’d follow up the next day with Falmagne, with Townsend texting him, “Thank you.”

De Sousa committed to KU four days later on Aug. 30, 2017.

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/big-12/university-of-kansas/article220042375.html

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1 hour ago, DanRydell said:

On Sept. 19, 2017 — three days before KU Athletics announced a 12-year contract extension with Adidas — Gassnola texted Self to tell him thank you for helping to get that extension done. Self replied via text that he was happy with Adidas and wrote “Just got to get a couple real guys.”

Gassnola responded with a text that said, “In my mind, it’s KU, Bill Self. Everyone else fall into line. Too (expletive) bad. That’s what’s right for Adidas basketball. And I know I’m right. The more you have lottery picks and you happy. That’s how it should work in my mind.” Self replied by text, “That’s how ur (sic) works. At UNC and Duke.” Gassnola answered by saying Kentucky as well. “I promise you I got this. I have never let you down. Except Deandre. Lol. We will get it right.”

In this case, Gassnola could be referring to center Deandre Ayton. Gassnola testified Thursday that he felt he let Self down when Ayton chose Arizona instead of KU.

Imagine the shock Bill Self must have felt when he found out this guy was buying players for him!

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That's not good.

I don't think any of this is bad in a vacuum until you get to the "we missed on deyondre" text.  That ties everything together.  Now I'm starting to believe that KU could be the victim but HCBS is lined up to be guilty by association/a perp.  This is going to torch our AD.  Probably end up scraping the bottom of the barrel for a coach.  Maybe shaka at the end of the year when you guys are done with him.

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14 hours ago, Jhawk said:

That's not good.

I don't think any of this is bad in a vacuum until you get to the "we missed on deyondre" text.  That ties everything together.  Now I'm starting to believe that KU could be the victim but HCBS is lined up to be guilty by association/a perp.  This is going to torch our AD.  Probably end up scraping the bottom of the barrel for a coach.  Maybe shaka at the end of the year when you guys are done with him.

Have a drink and relax. Unless you thought KU was squeaky clean (no school recruiting top 100 kids is), the FBI’s power to subpoena against Adidas people was always going to dig up some dirt. We’re not close to banners coming down, and we’re not on the same planet as a Self succession plan, yet.

The optics are terrible though, especially for people that have been naively clinging to a pure image of student-athletes.

 

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Is there anything exestentially damning in my opinion?  Not right now.  But this is not good and anytime we can get out of this would be the best time.  The picture being painted is clear, the defendant is on trial for committing fraud against the universities.  If they can prove that the universities knew then he will get off.  From a trial standpoint, this is going to turn into a credibility issue and whoever is seen as credible (defendant or Gassanola) will determine the fate of the defendant.

From a NCAA viewpoint, they might not ever get enough evidence from the trial to say that KU knew a player was being paid.  KU and its coaches will certainly deny it.  But even if this doesn't end in KU getting explicitly punished, it will end in KU getting more scrutiny than ever before.  As fans, we are constantly pissed that the NCAA clears very shady players in days while our players who seem on the up and up take months or the entire season to clear.  Don't expect that to change anytime soon.  The underhanded punishment might be hurt recruiting because we won't be able to get the top 10 guys anymore without them being raped by the NCAA first.  That hurts KU whether KU gets infractions levied on us or not.

Further, I don't want to say the sky is falling, but the Cam Newton scandal led the NCAA to closing the loophole of "the player didn't know."  I don't believe it matters anymore if KU or the player didn't know the guardian was paid.  I think that loophole is 100% gone which means KU played a non-amateur for half of the year last year.  It isn't being drunk and scared, it is being real.  At this point, a rule was violated and the NCAA will have to come back and say "all clear" to avoid losing the final 4.  Will they do that?  I don't know.  But every text that even looks suspicious between our coaches and the bag man probably gives the NCAA less of a reason to look at our program without prejudice and thus less likely to give us the benefit of the doubt.

This is a nightmare and will continue to be a nightmare until ALL of the trials are complete.  We don't know what is going to come out when Book Richardson is on the stand.  He might have explicit texts between him and Nike talking about what Bill Self said to Adidas and how much HCBS wanted offered for Ayton.  That could come out a year from now.  

As KU fans, we do believe the NCAA has it out for us on the recruiting trail.  We always have given their slow play of our recruits.  If you believe that and don't believe that the NCAA is sitting back licking their chops then I don't know what to tell you.

I hope we get clear of this but there is such a long road to go it isn't even funny.  I do know that every time our name or a name of a coach at KU is mentioned it is not a good thing.

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9 hours ago, Jhawk said:

Is there anything exestentially damning in my opinion?  Not right now.  But this is not good and anytime we can get out of this would be the best time.  The picture being painted is clear, the defendant is on trial for committing fraud against the universities.  If they can prove that the universities knew then he will get off.  From a trial standpoint, this is going to turn into a credibility issue and whoever is seen as credible (defendant or Gassanola) will determine the fate of the defendant.

From a NCAA viewpoint, they might not ever get enough evidence from the trial to say that KU knew a player was being paid.  KU and its coaches will certainly deny it.  But even if this doesn't end in KU getting explicitly punished, it will end in KU getting more scrutiny than ever before.  As fans, we are constantly pissed that the NCAA clears very shady players in days while our players who seem on the up and up take months or the entire season to clear.  Don't expect that to change anytime soon.  The underhanded punishment might be hurt recruiting because we won't be able to get the top 10 guys anymore without them being raped by the NCAA first.  That hurts KU whether KU gets infractions levied on us or not.

Further, I don't want to say the sky is falling, but the Cam Newton scandal led the NCAA to closing the loophole of "the player didn't know."  I don't believe it matters anymore if KU or the player didn't know the guardian was paid.  I think that loophole is 100% gone which means KU played a non-amateur for half of the year last year.  It isn't being drunk and scared, it is being real.  At this point, a rule was violated and the NCAA will have to come back and say "all clear" to avoid losing the final 4.  Will they do that?  I don't know.  But every text that even looks suspicious between our coaches and the bag man probably gives the NCAA less of a reason to look at our program without prejudice and thus less likely to give us the benefit of the doubt.

This is a nightmare and will continue to be a nightmare until ALL of the trials are complete.  We don't know what is going to come out when Book Richardson is on the stand.  He might have explicit texts between him and Nike talking about what Bill Self said to Adidas and how much HCBS wanted offered for Ayton.  That could come out a year from now.  

As KU fans, we do believe the NCAA has it out for us on the recruiting trail.  We always have given their slow play of our recruits.  If you believe that and don't believe that the NCAA is sitting back licking their chops then I don't know what to tell you.

I hope we get clear of this but there is such a long road to go it isn't even funny.  I do know that every time our name or a name of a coach at KU is mentioned it is not a good thing.

There are a lot of people up here who know Richardson very well. From what some people have told me Book has intimated that he expects to get in real trouble. And that he does indeed know a lot of things. I have not heard whether or not he will sing.

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If KU has the kind of season they are expecting, the Self era should surge forward just as it has been recently. Recruits aren't reading Dan Wetzel and Adam Zagoria columns, and they have no idea who Mark Emmert is. People say "the NCAA" will get them but really that's just a coalition of old dudes who don't want to disrupt the machine any more than the fans do.

These trials will probably have some impact at the school level, but nothing major that would impact the current pecking order.

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Agree. The defense is putting the university and coach on trial.  It’s a good strategy.  In reality there is a lot of smoke they knew but never any “make the payment” comment. If self had an attorney there he’d argue that “we good” was just self asking the adidas guy if he told the family about all the sponsorship opportunities after college. 

Its obvious that there is foul play the Ku is a part of. But no direct direct evidence of knowledge. If that evidence was available then self and Townsend might be on trial as well. 

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It’s a closing argument. He’s presented evidence in a he said/she said case. He’s leading the jury to a conclusion that helps his client. 

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If you're KU you want a guilty verdict here in my opinion.  Then you hope like hell none of the others who go on trial have been communicating or have communications between us and a runner.

If you're lucky, a guilty verdict gets the others to accept plea deals and nothing more sees the light of day.

Edited by Jhawk

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NEW YORK -- A jury on Wednesday convicted the three defendants accused of pay-for-play schemes to influence high-profile basketball recruits to attend Kansas, Louisville and NC State.

Adidas employee James Gatto, former Adidas consultant Merl Code and Christian Dawkins, a former runner for NBA agent Andy Miller, were found guilty after a three-week criminal trial in federal court in New York.

The jury of eight women and four men deliberated more than a dozen hours over three days before reaching a verdict.

Gatto, Code and Dawkins were accused of felony charges of wire fraud and conspiracy to commit wire fraud by paying money from Adidas to the families of recruits to ensure they signed with Adidas-sponsored schools, and then with the sneaker company and certain financial planners and agents once they turned pro.

The jury found Gatto guilty on all three of his counts, while Code and Dawkins were found guilty on two counts.

One of Gatto's attorneys, Michael Schacter, said he would appeal the verdict.

 

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25072946/james-gatto-merl-code-christian-dawkins-found-guilty-college-basketball-pay-play-trial

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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/25210341/ncaa-gets-approval-investigate-schools-college-basketball-corruption-case

 

Quote

Federal authorities have given NCAA officials their approval to move ahead with an investigation of alleged rules violations that came to light during the first of three federal criminal trials involving pay-for-play schemes and other corruption in college basketball, ESPN has confirmed.

 

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On 11/8/2018 at 7:13 AM, Felix said:

Well that should take about 3 years and come to no conclusions.

They don't really want to find the real conclusion to this, if the recruiting game is as dirty as these indictments make it seem.  The current most damning piece of evidence is on a Kansas assistant finding out what Zion Williamson was asking for...which would make an EASY public punishment, except he's currently at Duke.  Add in Kentucky's recruiting success and Calipari's history and it's relatively hard to make an example out of anybody when the 3 schools doing most of the heavy lifting on attracting casual fan eyeballs would be the most likely tip of the spear.

There will be some "shoe companies are too involved, we're cleaning this up starting now" nonsense from the NCAA, and it's back to business as usual.

 

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Adam Zagoria reporting that the NCAA will not punish any of the schools caught up in the adidas scandal until after the season.  Bad news for KU.  It sounds like we won't be getting any clearance for De Sousa this year.  Hopefully he is allowed to use this year as a red shirt.

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23 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

I'm confused, are you openly rooting for a player you obviously paid for to get cleared by the NCAA? Interesting.

Did you not read the court docs or follow along at all?  The only thing he was paid by anyone who could have had anything to do with KU is $2500.  That shit happens all the time and players usually serve a 4-6 game suspension and pay the money to a charity.  The 60k his guardian was paid was by a maryland booster.  He was also cleared by the NCAA AFTER that happened.  I get that new shit has come to light but at some point the NCAA has to start actually ruling on kids and their eligibility.  They have a long history of doing it very quickly for the top players in a class and have a long history of not doing it for guys who aren't regarded as lottery picks.

Also, I'm saying the ruling will give clarity.  I'm on record saying I don't believe he plays another game at KU.  That would be unfortunate given the climate of college basketball and his potential.  I'm hopeful that he and KU get some clarity and his life isn't destroyed.  Especially when guys like Zion are allowed to play with impunity when it was also stated that he took $100k in the same courtroom. 

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1 hour ago, Jhawk said:

Did you not read the court docs or follow along at all?  The only thing he was paid by anyone who could have had anything to do with KU is $2500.  That shit happens all the time and players usually serve a 4-6 game suspension and pay the money to a charity.  The 60k his guardian was paid was by a maryland booster.  He was also cleared by the NCAA AFTER that happened.  I get that new shit has come to light but at some point the NCAA has to start actually ruling on kids and their eligibility.  They have a long history of doing it very quickly for the top players in a class and have a long history of not doing it for guys who aren't regarded as lottery picks.

Also, I'm saying the ruling will give clarity.  I'm on record saying I don't believe he plays another game at KU.  That would be unfortunate given the climate of college basketball and his potential.  I'm hopeful that he and KU get some clarity and his life isn't destroyed.  Especially when guys like Zion are allowed to play with impunity when it was also stated that he took $100k in the same courtroom. 

Okay that's fair enough. No I have not followed it closely but thanks for clarifying.

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Arizona assistant coach Book Richardson pleads guilty. Nike is going to end up with zero dirty laundry on the line. 

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Yeah well, the schools and coaches are just concerned about the welfare of the student athletes and building them into good men. It's purely an altruistic endeavor and they reap no benefit from having those kids attend their schools or play on their teams. It's the handlers that are greedy fucks with a get ahead at any cost mentality.

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In its statement, the NCAA said a student-athlete is responsible for the actions of any third party involved in the recruitment process, regardless of whether the athlete knew of any improprieties or not.

Quote

the NCAA reinstated him the following day saying there was not "sufficient evidence" that Cam Newton or Auburn knew of the attempts to cash in on his talent.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/7093495/ncaa-finds-no-major-violations-auburn-regarding-cam-newton

so, ncaa, which one is it...is the student athlete responsible for knowing or not?

Edited by pacman

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11 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

 

I didn’t click the link, but did anybody point out to him how stupid that tweet is given that the coaches the FBI named were arrested? I’m sure Book Richardson and Chuck Person would much rather serve a piss-ant NCAA suspension.

 

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4 hours ago, VolenteHawk said:

I didn’t click the link, but did anybody point out to him how stupid that tweet is given that the coaches the FBI named were arrested? I’m sure Book Richardson and Chuck Person would much rather serve a piss-ant NCAA suspension.

 

How about Bill Self?

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Your trolling is so obvious. Even if HCBS is officially pulled into something and the ncaa has direct evidence of his involvement, which they don’t or he would have been on trial like other coaches, the NCAA doesn’t punish coaches. They punish kids and future kids. They do t really give a shit about schools, boosters, coaches, parents/guardians. 

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Kansas Director of Athletics Jeff Long
"Before we tip off today, I want to briefly address the last 24 hours and the disappointing decision regarding Silvio (De Sousa).
 
As I indicated yesterday, I am incensed at the NCAA's decision which effectively takes away college basketball from a young man who did nothing wrong.  I have been involved in college athletics for many years at a number of institutions and have always respected the NCAA and trusted the process but I must tell you, my faith has been shaken.  I know that Chancellor Girod and Coach Self join me in my frustrations.
 
Let me share with you just a bit about the process.
 
We have been working with the NCAA for more than three months to get Silvio back on the floor.  As they looked into potential NCAA violations regarding Silvio, we provided them with every witness, every document, every communication that they requested.  We kept pressing them for an answer, so Silvio could get back on the court, even if it meant serving a penalty first.  We withheld Silvio, as is common protocol, as we worked through these issues, to ensure that when he did play, he was eligible, thereby not jeopardizing our team's results.  
 
About one month ago, the NCAA indicated that they would consider Silvio's reinstatement if we did two things.  First, as is procedure, we had to declare him ineligible and then immediately seek his reinstatement.  Second, as part of our reinstatement requests, we had to identify T.J. Gassnola as an agent and as a booster, only as a hypothetical, for the purposes for reinstatement, as we disagree with the NCAA staff on how to define Gassnola's role in all of this.  The NCAA told us that they would not consider a reinstatement unless we included that information.  If we did not include the hypothetical, they would not consider reinstatement until after the enforcement investigation was complete, which could last well beyond this season.  With alternative, we declared Silvio ineligible on January 13th and began the reinstatement process. 
 
Throughout this process, we were instructed to share very little information with Coach Self and with Silvio, which obviously led to their understandable frustrations.  They had little control over the process and even less information.  We are very frustrated with the NCAA's Procedures that required us to keep Coach Self and Silvio somewhat in the dark.  
 
So where are we today?  KU is exploring all avenues of appeal.  Make no mistake: we are determined to fight for Silvio and for fairness.  This process has simply not been fair in our view. 
 
If the NCAA is trying to send a message or make a statement with an unwarranted harsh punishment, they are doing it through the wrong messenger—a young man that both NCAA Enforcement and the Institution agree, had no knowledge of and did not benefit from the NCAA Violation.  We will continue to stand by our student-athletes when we believe that they have been wronged.

 

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https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-investigation-underway-arizonas-sean-miller-faces-complicated-future-234415126.html

 

As the University of Arizona basketball program slogs through a difficult season on the court, the school appears to soon be facing uncomfortable questions on the future of embattled coach Sean Miller. Sources told Yahoo Sports that Arizona is one of the schools tied to the federal basketball scandal where a formal NCAA inquiry has begun.

While Arizona has the country’s No. 1 recruiting class for next season, there’s a series of looming issues both with the federal probe and the ongoing NCAA investigation into the school that complicate Miller’s future there.

The issues begin with the upcoming trial of Christian Dawkins, the former agency employee who claimed deep ties to the Arizona program. There’s also potential NCAA fallout from the recent felony plea in federal court by former Arizona assistant coach Emanuel “Book” Richardson, which amplifies the question of how the NCAA will handle Miller’s responsibility for the actions in his program.

While there’s nearly a dozen schools expected to face some degree of NCAA scrutiny in the wake of the federal basketball investigation, Miller and Arizona are dealing with a confluence of complications that cast a shroud over Miller’s future there.

The thorniest of those issues appears to be the upcoming trial of Dawkins, which is scheduled for April. Dawkins is a former low-level runner for once-powerful NBA agent Andy Miller. Dawkins has already been found guilty in the first federal basketball corruption trial.

Dawkins’ lawyer, Steve Haney, told Yahoo Sports that his client has little desire to follow the path of the three assistant coaches, including Richardson, who’ve recently entered a plea deal. “We have no intention of pleading,” Haney told Yahoo Sports. “And we believe, factually, the indictment is incorrect and we intend to prove it at trial.”

There’s a strong expectation that Miller will be subpoenaed to appear at the trial, potentially within the next month. He could be one of many coaches, as all the coaches who were captured on wiretap with Dawkins are at risk of a subpoena. Part of the defense’s theory is expected to be based on showing Dawkins wasn’t bribing coaches. “My obligation here is to defend my client,” Haney said in a phone interview, “not protect coaches who violated NCAA rules.”

Haney has already taken Dawkins to trial once, back in October at the first of the three trials tied to the corruption investigation. Another appearance is expected because Dawkins was already found guilty of multiple felonies at that October trial, and he faces likely jail time. That makes him pleading out less likely in this trial.

 

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