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West Virginia set to hire Neal Brown from Troy

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26 minutes ago, 83Horn said:

Hmmm...seems like a classy guy.  I hope the team remembers this when they go up to Morgantown later this year.

 

https://www.12up.com/posts/6314990-west-virginia-trolls-texas-with-horns-down-their-official-schedule

They're desperately trying to manufacture a rivalry to get the fanbase excited since they don't play Pitt anymore.

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They're desperately trying to manufacture a rivalry to get the fanbase excited since they don't play Pitt anymore.

Coming in I figured they'd gravitate toward OU as a rival. OU is a natural rival for them in a cultral sense - meth, inbreeding, etc - but the series has been so one sided that it hasn't had a chance to take off. We're the other "big fish" and our series has been far more back and forth.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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West Virginia: Neal Brown has hired Robby Brown as a special assistant to the head coach for football and senior analyst on offense. Brown spent the last several years as an offensive quality control and defensive assistant with the New York Jets.

http://wvmetronews.com/2019/03/22/neal-brown-adds-fourth-analyst-to-west-virginia-football-staff/

Edited by LTtxfan

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On 3/11/2019 at 11:25 AM, 83Horn said:

Hmmm...seems like a classy guy.  I hope the team remembers this when they go up to Morgantown later this year.

 

https://www.12up.com/posts/6314990-west-virginia-trolls-texas-with-horns-down-their-official-schedule

They are trying to manufacture a fake rivalry with us. I find it mostly confusing personally. 

'Oh...West Virginia is talking trash about us? Ok then.'

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1 minute ago, LTtxfan said:

West Virginia: Neal Brown has hired Robby Brown as a special assistant to the head coach for football and senior analyst on offense. Brown spent the last several years as an offensive quality control and defensive assistant with the New York Jets.

"Special Assistant to the Head Coach"

What is that?

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5 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

Venables-GetBack-e1509832061246-1024x604

I always thought this was such a cheesy gimmick. Like, I am so dialed in and focused on my that i need some dude to even hold me. Always seems like a look at me thing

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https://www.si.com/college-football/2019/06/27/neal-brown-west-virginia-mountaineers-recruiting 

 

"Neal Brown Is Eager to Try His Hand at West Virginia's One-of-a-Kind Challenge"

By ROSS DELLENGER    June 27, 2019

MORGANTOWN, W.Va. — Even before their lunch together this spring, Neal Brown knew of Don Nehlen’s accomplishments. He’d read about how Nehlen revived a sluggish football program in 1980, won more games than any other coach in West Virginia history and inspired the passion Mountaineers fans are now known for. What Brown, 39, did not know is that Nehlen’s memory at 83 is just as sharp as it was in his coaching days: He can still name the hometown and home state of each of his 22 starters on the 1988 team that fell one win shy of a national championship. Running backs A.B. Brown and Craig Taylor were from New Jersey. Quarterback Major Harris, tackle Brian Smider and safety Bo Orlando came from Pennsylvania, and receivers Reggie Rembert and Calvin Phillips grew up in Florida. Nehlen ran through the entire starting group as an astonished Brown listened.

“It was unbelievable,” Brown says weeks later, recounting the story from the office Nehlen once presided over. Hailed as a boy wonder in the coaching industry, Brown turned Troy into a giant-killer in short order (as LSU and Nebraska recently found out the hard way) after sprouting from the Air Raid tree as a walk-on receiver for Hal Mumme at Kentucky and a note-taking assistant under Tony Franklin at Troy. He’s one of the fastest risers in college coaching: an offensive coordinator at 28, a head coach at 35 and a millionaire—thanks to his $3.1 million salary as part of a six-year contract to coach the Mountaineers—before turning 40. He’s a bookworm, the son of an elementary school librarian and a high school principal, raised in Bardstown, Ky., the trademarked Bourbon Capital of the World.

But Brown’s past, while interesting, is somewhat irrelevant to the difficult task that lies before him: finding a way to draw good enough players to a small mountain town in order to compete in a conference whose footprint begins halfway across the country. West Virginia is a one-of-a-kind job in college football, and some might call it one of the most challenging. The lunch with Nehlen is only a small part of what has shaped Brown’s recruiting philosophy, using the past to mold the future by learning how—and from where—Nehlen assembled teams that won 149 games over 21 seasons.  

“Draw a 300-mile radius circle around Morgantown, and there’s lots of players,” Nehlen says, “and then you go down to Florida for some receivers and DBs who can run.”  In addition to their remote location in relation to the rest of the Big 12, the Mountaineers are in a unique situation as the flagship university of a state with 1.8 million people, the smallest state that contains a Power 5 program. Despite that, they’ve managed to do more with less. West Virginia has twice in 17 years signed a class ranked among the top 25 nationally, but over that span it has finished in the Top 25 nine times and has endured just a single losing season. This is not a place with patience for losing.  “We all feel the need to have some success early because they’ve always had success here—how sometimes, I wonder,” says 59-year-old Vic Koenning, West Virginia’s defensive coordinator who moved from Troy with Brown. “They’ve done a really good job at something, because they’ve won.”

It makes you wonder what the program might accomplish with a fully stocked and highly touted roster. Recruiting, though, is only one piece to this puzzle, a single component to Brown’s multi-faceted rebuilding plan, the same one he used to take Troy from the Sun Belt cellar to the top tier of the Group of Five. The Trojans, working on three straight years of 10-plus wins, are one of the more feared opponents among the little guys. Now, their architect is leading one of the big guys.  West Virginia is to college football what Rickie Fowler is to golf: The Mountaineers have the most wins of any Football Bowl Subdivision program without a national championship. Brown points to WVU’s 750 wins (14th-most all-time) and close calls as examples of the potential. WVU has been on the cusp of a title three times in 40 years (1988, 1993, 2007), each time arguably a single victory away from either playing for a national championship or claiming one.

For now, expectations here are tempered, as implied by the program’s social media hashtag, #TrustTheClimb. The Mountaineers lost a host of stars from the 2018 team that was 8–1, ranked No. 7 and in position to play for a Big 12 championship before a late-season slide. Gone are quarterback Will Grier, playmaking receivers David Sills V and Gary Jennings, three starting offensive linemen and arguably the team’s best returning defensive player, all-Big 12 safety Kenny Robinson, who is in the transfer portal. And then there’s a schedule that includes nine conference games, five of them on the road, and a salty trio of nonconference games: The Mountaineers play at Missouri, host NC State and open the season with the No. 2-ranked team in the FCS, James Madison.  “My goal is to be bowl-eligible. I’d consider that a successful year,” says West Virginia athletic director Shane Lyons, who hired Brown after Dana Holgorsen’s eight-season run ended with his sudden departure for Houston. “We’re in a marathon, not in a sprint.”

The marathon has so far included an increase in resources. Lyons approved the addition of two more analysts and four more full-time recruiting staff members to join the initial two, and there are $55 million renovations coming to the football program’s operations center. As with all program changes, these are being made with recruiting in mind. “In two years, we’ll have a brand new facility, which really is going to help you get better dudes,” says Matt Moore, the co-offensive coordinator and offensive line coach who Brown brought from Troy. “The place we just left, the roster is awesome. Here, the roster... we’ve got a lot of holes.”  The strategy for how to fill those holes is evolving, Brown says. The staff plans to take Nehlen’s approach in recruiting a 300-mile radius or a six-hour drive from Morgantown, while sprinkling in some Floridians. They’ll go northeast to New York and New Jersey, down the East Coast to the Baltimore-Washington D.C. corridor, west to Kentucky, south to Charlotte and northwest to Detroit. They’re also recruiting Canada and Europe. “When you’re in a state with 1.8 million people, you’ve got to get creative,” says Brian Bennett, the programs 30-year-old director of player personnel.

Bennett calls international recruiting a “new frontier,” buoyed by Premier Players International, a Germany-based outfit where the top players in Europe are identified and trained to play American football. PPI founder Brandon Collier annually leads multiple bus tours of European teenagers across America to visit colleges. The latest group came through Morgantown two weeks ago, 15 players from seven different countries, including cornerback Jairo Faverus, from Bristol Academy in the U.K. Days after Faverus earned an offer after working out in front of Brown and his staff, he committed to the Mountaineers’ 2020 class.  The staff is serious enough about international recruiting that Brown plans to send an assistant coach on a recruiting trip to Amsterdam and Germany this winter. The only issue is selecting which of the 10 assistants gets a free trip overseas. “They’re all clamoring for it,” Bennett laughs. West Virginia isn’t the only program dabbling in the overseas market for players. Michigan, Temple, Penn State, Ohio State, Virginia, Georgia Tech, Nebraska, Boise State, Colorado and Arizona have all shown interest in or signed international players.

Notably absent from that list are any other Big 12 teams. Even in the States, the Mountaineers rarely see fellow conference members on the recruiting trail aside from Iowa State, the closest leaguemate at a mere 860 miles away from Morgantown. While other conference foes are fighting among themselves in and around the talent-rich state of Texas, Brown’s assistants are trying to convince Mid-Atlantic and Midwestern kids to play in one of the more high-powered offensive leagues around. “Is there a more fun league to play in than the Big 12?” Brown asks rhetorically. “Geographically, I like our fit. Some people look at it as a negative. It makes us unique and different. Anytime you can differentiate yourself from your competitors, I think it’s great—I don’t care if it’s recruiting or selling cars.”

Brown is unique in his own right. He’s the rare major college coach who works from home in the early-morning and late-evening hours so he can drive his three children to school and eat dinner with the family. He’s also a ’ball coach with a book club. West Virginia’s on-field and off-field staff members meet every couple of weeks in the WVU team room to openly discuss an inspirational book that Brown has assigned them to read. The current book is John Maxwell’s Developing the Leader Within You, and the chapter discussed last week was about the difficulty of change, a pertinent subject for everyone here, both holdover West Virginia employees now under a new regime and those from Troy now working at a new school. When Brown took over, he met individually with each player and staff member, posing to them four questions: What do we need to sustain? What do we need to improve? What’s the No. 1 issue? If you were named head coach tomorrow, what would you do?  “You get a feel for where we’re at,” Brown says. “To me, people make mistakes going in making changes. Really this summer, we’re going through and putting the foundation in.” The foundation includes five environmental factors: (1) fun, (2) positive energy, (3) family atmosphere, (4) competition and (5) continuous improvement. Those factors were on display during an offense vs. defense cookoff at Milan Puskar Stadium last Thursday, a barbecue battle that the defense won by a 4–2 vote, as staff members’ children interacted with players seated next to one another on long tables. Brown’s fifth environmental factor showed on the faces of the losing side: Offensive players now know what to improve upon next year (less barbecue sauce, guys).

Brown is detail-oriented to the extreme. He’s a note-taker, filling a legal pad each week with thoughts from meetings, film sessions and events, or sometimes just hastily jotted ideas or schedules for events two months out. Bennett and Patrick Johnston, WVU’s director of operations, are in charge of archiving the notepads. Once Brown has completely filled a pad, the sheets are torn out, three holes are punched through each sheet and they are stacked into a three-ring binder, dozens of which fill filing cabinets around the facility. Over the course of the year, Brown and staff members refer to the binders for information. Maybe it’s something Brown said in a meeting from 2017, or a play he jotted down against a common opponent from a year ago. His notes do have an expiration date, though. “I keep five years,” he says. “Anything over five years, I get rid of.”  Brown is a long-term planner, too, so much so that Moore says during a recent recruiting meeting Brown asked his staff, “Who’s going to be our starters in 2021?” It’s no surprise he has advanced so far at a young age, certainly not to his mentor, Franklin, who is now the offensive coordinator at Middle Tennessee. Brown owes Franklin plenty. As Kentucky’s running backs coach from 1997 to ’99 under Mumme, Franklin helped get Brown a walk-on spot, and then, as offensive coordinator at Troy in 2006, he hired a 25-year-old Brown as his receivers coach. Two years later, upon leaving Troy for Auburn, Franklin recommended that Brown be promoted to offensive coordinator. That opened the door to bigger coordinator jobs at Texas Tech and Kentucky. “I always thought he was a really good offensive coordinator,” Franklin says, “but I thought he’d be a better head coach.”

Brown was ballsy as an assistant, a brazen kid who routinely interjected and even created weekly game plans that Franklin now admits he’d toss in the garbage—not because they were poorly done, but because “I function in a different way,” Franklin says. Sometimes, Brown stepped over the line. “He could take a butt-chewing, and he got several,” Franklin says with a laugh. “Didn’t bother him one bit.”  Brown has changed offensively through the years, moving from the hotshot coordinator hell-bent on scoring 70 points a game to a head coach who’s only after a win. He has his own version of Mumme’s Air Raid offense, incorporating a ground game built off the option. His offense is always changing, too, often swiping plays from the most prolific offense in pro football, the Rams. “When I was with him as an offensive coordinator at Tech, it was go go go,” Moore says. “It was more about scoring points, 90 plays a game. When he became the head coach, it was more about, ‘How can we win?’”

That starts, of course, on the recruiting trail. Brown and staff are shaking off the perception that the challenge of recruiting high school players to Morgantown makes it too tough to win the Big 12. Brown’s predecessor, Holgorsen, admitted as much in an interview this spring with SI. In his final five years at West Virginia, Holgorsen says he used half of his initial scholarship spots on transfers.  “In the past, people are looking to say, ‘Oh, it’s tough to recruit because to get there…’ I don’t buy into that,” Lyons says.  The recruiting might be toughest on Koenning and his defensive staff, who are charged with signing players to defend a fast-paced, pass-heavy conference. More than anything, he says, it means signing more corners than safeties. Koenning, 59, is a 34-year coaching veteran whose career has spanned eight schools and seven conferences. He’s prepared for what lies ahead on the recruiting trail, and he knows it will be even more difficult than recruiting at Troy, where coaches recruited inside a three-hour driving radius and only rarely needed to travel by air.

Around this time each year, Koenning says, the Trojans’ staff began targeting nearby players that SEC and ACC programs had passed on. It will be different at West Virginia. “Here, you’re recruiting the ones, but realistically you’re at the next tier. That’s where you’re spending a good amount of your time,” he says. “What you’ve got to be careful of is spending too much time with the [highest-ranked recruits], the five-stars or four-stars or whatever, and you don’t get the next guys.” Here, getting players to camp might be more difficult because of travel distances, and seeing each kid in person within a recruiting territory that spans 17 states could be a problem, too.

On the bright side, expectations for a highly touted signing class do not exist here. That’s a good thing, coaches say. “Truthfully, sometimes it’s easier to recruit when you’re at a place when you don’t have to worry about the stars because you can take the guys you like,” Moore says. “Recruiting is a crapshoot. Sometimes you take stars and sometimes you’re like, ‘Is that kid really that good?’ As a coach, sometimes you’re sitting there going, ‘Man, I’ve got to get this four-star kid, but look at this kid. Nobody knows about him, but he’s a two-star. They’re going to have a fit if I try to sign this kid, but I know he’s better.’ At this place, they’re not hung up on recruiting battles. These people here just want to win.”  They are used to winning, dating back to even before Nehlen. Bobby Bowden won 42 games in six years here before he was hired by Florida State after the 1975 season, and before that in the 1950s, Art Lewis claimed five conference championships. Nehlen still lives in Morgantown and attends all the home games. His son Dan is the longtime WVU equipment manager, and his grandson Ryan is an offensive analyst. Brown hopes to acquire Nehlen’s knack for reciting each one of his starter’s hometowns in an effort to duplicate Nehlen’s results. “That,” Brown says, “is kind of the plan.”

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West Virginia: Matt Jansen, who previously spent seven seasons in scouting departments with the Texans and Raiders, has joined the Mountaineer personnel and recruiting staff, per source.

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I wonder if he was brought in to target a particular geographic region. WV has typically recruited Florida and the Northeast pretty heavily. Even after joining the BXII they haven't really looked at Texas HS players that much which has surprised me a bit. Not complaining, keep your grubby paws off our guys,  just an observation.

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7 hours ago, ButtFumble said:

there is some damn good coaching in the Big 12 right now

 

A little more reps for WVa Victory today...

 

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19 hours ago, ButtFumble said:

there is some damn good coaching in the Big 12 right now

I thought that given all their graduation losses that WVU wouldn't be able to stick with Brown long enough for him to turn them around. This is the kind of win that buys him the time he needs. Good to see (although he's going to be a pain in the ass for us).

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Posted (edited)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2897397-wvu-coach-vic-koenning-on-leave-after-kerry-martin-jr-outlines-alleged-comments

WVU Coach Vic Koenning on Leave After Kerry Martin Jr. Outlines Alleged Comments

TIMOTHY RAPP   JUNE 23, 2020

West Virginia defensive coordinator Vic Koenning has been placed on administrative leave after safety Kerry Martin Jr. tweeted about a series of offensive comments made by the coach since spring 2019, per Joe Brocato of WVMetroNews.com. 

Martin said Koenning once called him "retarded" for using the wrong technique during a workout. He also said Koenning was talking about Donald Trump during a 2019 meeting and said the president should "build the wall and keep Hispanics out of the country" while a Hispanic person was in the meeting room.

Additionally, Martin said he converted his religion and that Koenning would consistently to talk to him about Christianity, reading him bible verses. Martin says Koenning commented Monday on the protests against systemic racism and police brutality, claiming "If people did not want to get tear gassed, or push back by the police then they shouldn't be outside protesting."

He also said Koenning took aim at former Pitt defensive back Derrek Pitts, who has since transferred to Marshall.

"Coach Vic has antagonized Derrek Pitts for believing in something that he didn't believe," he wrote. "He would make remarks about the Bible and talk about religion in front of Derrek, making him want to question the things he believed."

Athletic Director Shane Lyons released the following statement Tuesday:

"I want to thank Kerry Martin for having the courage to bring his concerns to light. We will not tolerate any form of racism, discrimination or bias on our campus, including our athletic programs. Coach Vic Koenning has been placed on administrative leave effective immediately, and the department will work with the appropriate parties to conduct a thorough investigation into these allegations. This is serious, and we will act appropriately and in the best interests of our student-athletes."

Koenning was entering his second season as the Mountaineers' defensive coordinator. 

Edited by LTtxfan

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1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2897397-wvu-coach-vic-koenning-on-leave-after-kerry-martin-jr-outlines-alleged-comments

WVU Coach Vic Koenning on Leave After Kerry Martin Jr. Outlines Alleged Comments

TIMOTHY RAPP   JUNE 23, 2020

West Virginia defensive coordinator Vic Koenning has been placed on administrative leave after safety Kerry Martin Jr. tweeted about a series of offensive comments made by the coach since spring 2019, per Joe Brocato of WVMetroNews.com. 

Martin said Koenning once called him "retarded" for using the wrong technique during a workout. He also said Koenning was talking about Donald Trump during a 2019 meeting and said the president should "build the wall and keep Hispanics out of the country" while a Hispanic person was in the meeting room.

Additionally, Martin said he converted his religion and that Koenning would consistently to talk to him about Christianity, reading him bible verses. Martin says Koenning commented Monday on the protests against systemic racism and police brutality, claiming "If people did not want to get tear gassed, or push back by the police then they shouldn't be outside protesting."

He also said Koenning took aim at former Pitt defensive back Derrek Pitts, who has since transferred to Marshall.

"Coach Vic has antagonized Derrek Pitts for believing in something that he didn't believe," he wrote. "He would make remarks about the Bible and talk about religion in front of Derrek, making him want to question the things he believed."

Athletic Director Shane Lyons released the following statement Tuesday:

"I want to thank Kerry Martin for having the courage to bring his concerns to light. We will not tolerate any form of racism, discrimination or bias on our campus, including our athletic programs. Coach Vic Koenning has been placed on administrative leave effective immediately, and the department will work with the appropriate parties to conduct a thorough investigation into these allegations. This is serious, and we will act appropriately and in the best interests of our student-athletes."

Koenning was entering his second season as the Mountaineers' defensive coordinator. 

This part seems a little weird. 

Martin alleges that last season, Koenning spoke in a position meeting "about President Trump and how he should 'build the wall and keep Hispanics out of the country,' and there's a Hispanic in the meeting." Martin also referred to a meeting Koenning had with his high school coach, Jon Carpenter, who described Koenning as having a "'Slave Master' mentality" in a later conversation with Martin.

Carpenter denied making that claim Tuesday, telling "This Week in WV Sports" "100 percent no. I never told him that," adding that he's "heartbroken Kerry could feel that way." Martin responded to Carpenter's claim, calling it "100 percent not true" on Twitter.

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Seems like a bunch of coaches could go down soon. Coaches say a lot of mean shit to try and motivate their players, and it often crosses the line.

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Posted (edited)

Holy shit, where are we going with this?  So talking about religion or politics is now offensive?  Having your high school coach relay to you that after talking to your current position coach he "seems like a Slave Master" makes him a racist?

This is heresay at best, and a man is likely to lose his job as a result.  How did he happen to know that this player converted his religion?  I would guess because said player made it known.  So is this a one way street?  It is apparently ok to be open about being a Muslim, but not a Christian.

Telling your group of players to get to a meeting is treating them like property?

This is craziness.  I understand that it sounds like an old school coach needs to be spoken to about what is appropriate and what is not.  But to have this guy outed as a racist because some player has some loose quotes that he says offended him shouldn't be the basis of letting a coach go.

 

Edited by jinx

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, jinx said:

Holy shit, where are we going with this?  So talking about religion or politics is now offensive?  Having your high school coach relay to you that after talking to your current position coach he "seems like a Slave Master" makes him a racist?

This is heresay at best, and a man is likely to lose his job as a result.  How did he happen to know that this player converted his religion?  I would guess because said player made it known.  So is this a one way street?  It is apparently ok to be open about being a Muslim, but not a Christian.

Telling your group of players to get to a meeting is treating them like property?

This is craziness.  I understand that it sounds like an old school coach needs to be spoken to about what is appropriate and what is not.  But to have this guy outed as a racist because some player has some loose quotes that he says offended him shouldn't be the basis of letting a coach go.

 

Look, he didn't just "talk about politics or religion," he said IN A TEAM MEETING he wanted to "keep the Hispanics out", he said the BLM protesters deserved to get teargassed (which in some cases could be a valid thought, but read the room, man), and he prostletyzed his religion in his capacity as a state employee.

Obviously if Martin is exaggerating or lying, they need to find that out, but what he said is pretty damning.

Edited by texifornia

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11 minutes ago, jinx said:

Holy shit, where are we going with this?  So talking about religion or politics is now offensive?  Having your high school coach relay to you that after talking to your current position coach he "seems like a Slave Master" makes him a racist?

This is heresay at best, and a man is likely to lose his job as a result.  How did he happen to know that this player converted his religion?  I would guess because said player made it known.  So is this a one way street?  It is apparently ok to be open about being a Muslim, but not a Christian.

Telling your group of players to get to a meeting is treating them like property?

This is craziness.  I understand that it sounds like an old school coach needs to be spoken to about what is appropriate and what is not.  But to have this guy outed as a racist because some player has some loose quotes that he says offended him shouldn't be the basis of letting a coach go.

 

That’s over simplifying and leaving out some key details in an article that probably doesn’t have or give all the information. 

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6 minutes ago, texifornia said:

Look, he didn't just "talk about politics or religion," he said IN A TEAM MEETING he wanted to "keep the Hispanics out", he said the BLM protesters deserved to get teargassed (which in some cases could be a valid thought, but read the room, man), and he prostletyzed his religion in his capacity as a state employee.

Obviously if Martin is exaggerating or lying, they need to find that out, but what he said is pretty damning.

 

3 minutes ago, Eugene11 said:

That’s over simplifying and leaving out some key details in an article that probably doesn’t have or give all the information. 

I'm not saying that he doesn't need to be corrected and he may be the monster he is labeled to be, but there are some GIANT leaps of intent in this Twitter post.

I agree that he shouldn't force his religion on student athletes and speaking about politics is not appropriate in team meetings.  But some of these assumptions and labels are based on nothing but speculation.

I'm not trying to victim shame here, but to label someone as a "Slave Master" because your high school coach made that comment, or to say you are treated "like property" because your coach tells you to go to a meeting is WAY too far.

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22 minutes ago, jinx said:

Holy shit, where are we going with this?  So talking about religion or politics is now offensive?  Having your high school coach relay to you that after talking to your current position coach he "seems like a Slave Master" makes him a racist?

This is heresay at best, and a man is likely to lose his job as a result.  How did he happen to know that this player converted his religion?  I would guess because said player made it known.  So is this a one way street?  It is apparently ok to be open about being a Muslim, but not a Christian.

Telling your group of players to get to a meeting is treating them like property?

This is craziness.  I understand that it sounds like an old school coach needs to be spoken to about what is appropriate and what is not.  But to have this guy outed as a racist because some player has some loose quotes that he says offended him shouldn't be the basis of letting a coach go.

 

Yep total bullshit.  They should just cancel football and all this idiots will fade into oblivion. 

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14 hours ago, jinx said:

Holy shit, where are we going with this?  So talking about religion or politics is now offensive?  Having your high school coach relay to you that after talking to your current position coach he "seems like a Slave Master" makes him a racist?

This is heresay at best, and a man is likely to lose his job as a result.  How did he happen to know that this player converted his religion?  I would guess because said player made it known.  So is this a one way street?  It is apparently ok to be open about being a Muslim, but not a Christian.

Telling your group of players to get to a meeting is treating them like property?

This is craziness.  I understand that it sounds like an old school coach needs to be spoken to about what is appropriate and what is not.  But to have this guy outed as a racist because some player has some loose quotes that he says offended him shouldn't be the basis of letting a coach go.

 

Get it.  One question:  why does it matter what the fucker's religion was, is, or may be?   

Does it matter to being a safety?

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7 hours ago, Hurtlocker said:

Get it.  One question:  why does it matter what the fucker's religion was, is, or may be?   

Does it matter to being a safety?

It obviously doesn't, but at the same time I don't think this is an isolated event.  There are plenty of coaches that are Christians that would use their platform to try to influence their players toward Christianity.  Is that a fireable offense?

And the player admits that he "changed" his religion, so he obviously has some questions going on that he is trying to get answers to.  Regardless, I hardly see religious discussions as a fireable offense.

Basically, what I see in this narrative by the player, is an old, white, Christian, conservative, Trump supporter that has a very hard time relating to younger primarily black players that he coaches.  I am sure he has said and done some very politically incorrect things on a practice field in his decades as a coach. 

What I don't see in the narrative is a clear cut fireable offense.  But what percent chance would you give that Coach Koennig coaches for WVU this year?  I would go with less than 5%.

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On 6/24/2020 at 8:56 AM, jinx said:

Holy shit, where are we going with this?  So talking about religion or politics is now offensive?  Having your high school coach relay to you that after talking to your current position coach he "seems like a Slave Master" makes him a racist?

 

Where the fuck have you been when it comes to sports?

Some people would like it to be a safe space where things like police brutality, systematic racism and treating players like property shouldn't be discussed.  But you're fine and dandy with a coach bringing up Trump, building a wall, and gassing protesters like it's just another day at the office? 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/24/2020 at 10:17 AM, jinx said:

 

I'm not saying that he doesn't need to be corrected and he may be the monster he is labeled to be, but there are some GIANT leaps of intent in this Twitter post.

I agree that he shouldn't force his religion on student athletes and speaking about politics is not appropriate in team meetings.  But some of these assumptions and labels are based on nothing but speculation.

I'm not trying to victim shame here, but to label someone as a "Slave Master" because your high school coach made that comment, or to say you are treated "like property" because your coach tells you to go to a meeting is WAY too far.

I think a lot of that post was reaching like you’ve pointed out, but saying BLM protestors should be tear gassed, saying he wants the Hispanics out, and pushing his religion on a player who he’s just heard started practicing another religion shouldn’t happen and he should know it will undercut his relationship with a lot of his players and recruits.

On 6/24/2020 at 9:56 AM, jinx said:

Holy shit, where are we going with this?  So talking about religion or politics is now offensive? 

How did he happen to know that this player converted his religion?  I would guess because said player made it known.  So is this a one way street?  It is apparently ok to be open about being a Muslim, but not a Christian.

 

This is craziness.  I understand that it sounds like an old school coach needs to be spoken to about what is appropriate and what is not.  But to have this guy outed as a racist because some player has some loose quotes that he says offended him shouldn't be the basis of letting a coach go.

 

There’s. A huge difference between a player making it known he converted to a certain religion and a coach pushing his religion on a player. 
 Personally, if nothing else comes out, I don’t think it should rise to the level of a 
fired for cause event, but if this stuff harms his ability to recruit and/or keep his position group together , then he may end up getting let go due to performance. It’s the same thing with Gundy, IMO. Wearing an OAN shirt is not a basis for firing for cause, but if it alienates a lot of the players he’s trying to recruit or coach, then it becomes a performance issue. 

 

There’s a huge distinction between a fireable offense and voicing personal opinions that make it hard to perform a huge function of your job at a high level. These guys’ jobs are largely based on the performance of young black males, so if they have political beliefs that will likely alienate their players, then they should be smart enough to not be forcing their opinions on players during team meetings. If they’re not smart enough to do that, then there will likely be consequences. This ain’t some runaway leftist mob situation where white Christian males will be uniformly ousted from society. College football coaches are uniquely reliant on the opinions and beliefs of young black males and need to adjust their behavior accordingly. 

Edited by Burt Macklin

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11 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

There’s. A huge difference between a player making it known he converted to a certain religion and a coach pushing his religion on a player. 

How do we know the player only mentioned converting to a different religion? If that’s how it started, he was probably asked why, to which he may have said some things that the coach thought were misguided or patently false. To correct or challenge him on those claims may have been reasonable - or at least fair game - depending on the context. 

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54 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

How do we know the player only mentioned converting to a different religion? If that’s how it started, he was probably asked why, to which he may have said some things that the coach thought were misguided or patently false. To correct or challenge him on those claims may have been reasonable - or at least fair game - depending on the context. 

I’m going off of what the player said, which was the coach “found out” and then pulled him into his office multiple times to read him scriptures. There’s obviously two sides to every story, so I’m not saying that is definitely what happened, but we were talking about this in the context of what should or would happen if the allegations are true. 

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My issue is that a man has been accused of racism and mistreatment by one of his players, when all I see is a old white out of touch guy saying things that are no longer acceptable.   The university has called these allegations serious, echoed the racism claim, and are taking actions to fire him.

I haven't seen one rebuttal that says he was racist or mistreated his player, only that he acted innappropriately.  I agree with that, and it may deserve some form of retribution, but being labeled a racist who mistreats his players doesn't seem to fit the crime.

Are we just defaulting to any Republican Trump supporting Christian is a racist?  That seems to be the claim to me.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, jinx said:

My issue is that a man has been accused of racism and mistreatment by one of his players, when all I see is a old white out of touch guy saying things that are no longer acceptable.   The university has called these allegations serious, echoed the racism claim, and are taking actions to fire him.

I haven't seen one rebuttal that says he was racist or mistreated his player, only that he acted innappropriately.  I agree with that, and it may deserve some form of retribution, but being labeled a racist who mistreats his players doesn't seem to fit the crime.

Are we just defaulting to any Republican Trump supporting Christian is a racist?  That seems to be the claim to me.

 

 

The part that's both racist and checkable was talking about "building a wall to keep the Hispanics out," which, even if he's poorly phrasing a general comment on illegal immigration, is pretty darn racist in real life.

Edited by texifornia

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, texifornia said:

The part that's both racist and checkable was talking about "building a wall to keep the Hispanics out," which, even if he's poorly phrasing a general comment on illegal immigration, is pretty darn racist in real life.

I watch the news, and I am pretty sure the US is building a wall between the US and Mexico.  Will we tear down the racist wall after Trump leaves office?

I think there are valid arguments for protecting our borders.  Sure it can take racist tones, but to declare that topic racist is unfair.  It is a political hot button, but what isn't lately?

Edited by jinx

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, jinx said:

I watch the news, and I am pretty sure the US is building a wall between the US and Mexico.  Will we tear down the racist wall after Trump leaves office?

I think if someone said it, phrased that way, in real life, I'd get far more "There's too many damn Mexicans" vibes and far less "illegal immigration is an important policy topic for me".

And it'd be a real fucking weird thing to say in a football position meeting.

Edited by texifornia

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3 hours ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

How do we know the player only mentioned converting to a different religion? If that’s how it started, he was probably asked why, to which he may have said some things that the coach thought were misguided or patently false. To correct or challenge him on those claims may have been reasonable - or at least fair game - depending on the context. 

You just described every single religious person's view of every other religion that their own.

As for the comment about the wall, jinx, the second part of your statement belies the first.

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I'm viewing the comment from the perspective of a guy who wants to label his position coach a Slave Master because his high school coach said it (which he denied saying).  So, sure there is a racist way to talk about the wall.  The wall is also a fact that is very divisive and probably not a position meeting topic.

I get the whole, keep politics out of sports topic, but that is for boards like this one.  To think that a wide variety of topics don't get discussed between coaches and players that meet for 20 hours each week is ridiculous.  Hell, my WR coach in high school used to tell us stories about Vietnamese prostitutes during football practice.  Highly frowned upon and innappropriate sure, but we loved the stories.

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12 minutes ago, jinx said:

My issue is that a man has been accused of racism and mistreatment by one of his players, when all I see is a old white out of touch guy saying things that are no longer acceptable.   The university has called these allegations serious, echoed the racism claim, and are taking actions to fire him.

I haven't seen one rebuttal that says he was racist or mistreated his player, only that he acted innappropriately.  I agree with that, and it may deserve some form of retribution, but being labeled a racist who mistreats his players doesn't seem to fit the crime.

Are we just defaulting to any Republican Trump supporting Christian is a racist?  That seems to be the claim to me.

 

 

The university didn’t echo anything. Their statement was basically, racism is bad, we’ll investigate to see if that occurred here.  They did not imply he did anything that was alleged. 
 

And you continue to willfully ignore the  distinction that he’s a Republican Trump supporting Christian who’s a state employee that uses practice time to push those beliefs/opinions on his subordinates and as you yourself admit, “say things that are no longer acceptable.”.  He’s not being investigated just for having these beliefs, he’s being investigated for his actions, which is completely different.  If he can’t separate his beliefs from “saying things that are no longer acceptable” to his players, then yeah, there could be consequences.
 

And if those unacceptable things include saying things like “keep the Hispanics out” and BLM protestors should be tear gassed, then an investigation into potential mistreatment and racist comments doesn’t seem all that unfair. 
 

 

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I'm gonna back away from this one, because I don't want to go too far out on this limb and give the wrong impression.  I support the ongoing movement, and I am far from a right wing apologist.  I get where the player is coming from, but I think we are on a very slippery slope if we let one side of a (very biased in my opinion) story damn a human being as racist and end his career as a result.

It seems like that was the goal of the tweet, and the provided "evidence" is pretty speculative to me.

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3 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

I’m going off of what the player said, which was the coach “found out” and then pulled him into his office multiple times to read him scriptures. There’s obviously two sides to every story, so I’m not saying that is definitely what happened, but we were talking about this in the context of what should or would happen if the allegations are true. 

I understand, but I’m inclined to skepticism when today’s college students make accusations on social media. Social media encourages even the guys to become drama queens in search of a dopamine fix. Everything gets ratcheted up, and they destroy lives and careers in the process. What ever happened to talking to someone face-to-face, even if there is a neutral party present. An open door policy is no longer sufficient, obviously. 

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1 hour ago, Herpa Derpa said:

You just described every single religious person's view of every other religion that their own.

I was referring to the possibility that the coach took exception to the players criticism of Christianity, not that the coach was necessarily criticizing Islam. Although both could happen, I was playing devil’s advocate for the coach.
 

Oops, there’s that devil talk again. Religion always seems to find a way into conversations. 

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On 3/11/2019 at 12:52 PM, texifornia said:

They're desperately trying to manufacture a rivalry to get the fanbase excited since they don't play Pitt anymore.

What?  The Backyard Brawl is no more?!

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