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  • COVID-19 vaccine discussion


    Texas Jeff

    I thought it might be helpful to have a separate topic related to the vaccine.  If this is too much duplication, mods please delete this thread.  I thought it would be good to talk about who can get the vaccine, where they can get it, what side effects people are seeing, and in general what is going on with distribution.

    The CDC has published vaccine distribution guidelines, and if you care, they are worth reading.  They are dividing the timeline into:

    • Phase 1 - Potentially limited supply of COVID-19 vaccine doses available
    • Phase 2 - Large number of vaccine doses available
    • Phase 3 - Sufficient supply of vaccine doses for entire population

    Who you are will determine if you are eligible for a vaccine in the various phases.

    Phase 1 is divided into a Phase 1a and a Phase 1b:

    • Phase 1a - Mostly healthcare workers
    • Phase 1b - Other essential workers, people with higher risks, people over 65

    If you are eligible to get the vaccine and they have in in stock and you want to get it, it is important to go get it.  Both of the first two vaccines can spoil, so if a dose is sitting there and you aren't there to get it, they might have to throw it away.

    Both vaccines require two shots.  It is important to go get that second shot.

    Who fits in phase 1b and who has to wait until phase 2 might be a sticking point.  The "people in higher risks" category includes a lot of folks, maybe more than you would think might be in that category.  Hopefully we can quickly get to phase 2 so that we don't spend too long arguing about who is or is not in Phase 1b.

    Anyway, I'm interested in everyone's experience with the vaccine and especially getting the word out for those that can go get it, so that every dose ends up in an arm rather than in the trash.

     

     


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    On 5/7/2024 at 9:34 AM, immamac said:

    Why is this thread active in 2024?

    I just caught my first case last week. In a weird way I was kind of excited to finally be included with the rest of the world, except for that fourth-ish day when I did not want to be inside of my own body. So much information will be playing out about the virus, the different countries based on the response or non-response, and the vaccines for many years to come.

     

     

    Edited by JohnnyRage
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    Hydroxychloroquine could have caused 17,000 deaths during Covid, study finds:

    Quote

    Nearly 17,000 people may have died after taking hydroxycholoroquine during the first wave of Covid-19, according to a study by French researchers.

    The anti-malaria drug was prescribed to some patients hospitalized with Covid-19 during the first wave of the pandemic, "despite the absence of evidence documenting its clinical benefits," the researchers point out in their paper, published in the February issue of Biomedicine & Pharmacotherapy.

    Now, researchers have estimated that some 16,990 people in six countries — France, Belgium, Italy, Spain, Turkey and the U.S. — may have died as a result.

    That figure stems from a study published in the Nature scientific journal in 2021 which reported an 11 percent increase in the mortality rate, linked to its prescription against Covid-19, because of the potential adverse effects like heart rhythm disorders, and its use instead of other effective treatments.

    Researchers from universities in Lyon, France, and Québec, Canada, used that figure to analyze hospitalization data for Covid in each of the six countries, exposure to hydroxychloroquine and the increase in the relative risk of death linked to the drug.

    In fact, they say the figure may be far higher given the study only concerns six countries from March to July 2020, when the drug was prescribed much more widely.

    Hydroxychloroquine gained prominence partly due to French virologist Didier Raoult who had headed the Méditerranée Infection Foundation hospital, but was later removed amid growing controversy.

    It was also considered something of a “miracle cure” by the then-U.S. President Donald Trump, who said: “What do you have to lose? Take it.”

     

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    It's honestly shocking that an anti-parasitic with immunosuppressive properties was a bad idea to take when you have a viral infection. Mind blowing really.

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    1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

    It's honestly shocking that an anti-parasitic with immunosuppressive properties was a bad idea to take when you have a viral infection. Mind blowing really.

    BuT wHy aRe We BuMpInG tHiS tHrEaD?

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    There's some viral flu/whatever shit going around. I got picked it up last Wed night on a business trip to Pennsylvania. Started with a scratchy throat and sinus. It's been a full week of thick sinus issues, non-stop coughing, fatigue, on and off again fever. Got tested yesterday. Not Covid or flu, doc thinks it is viral. I haven't been this sick since, well, Covid but I was feeling fine after a week with Covid. Not this shit. A week later, still feeling like absolute shit. This motherfucking cough will not go away. Gave it to the wife. She's vaxxed with the latest and greatest. Didn't prevent her from getting this shit.

    Reading the Austin Reddit board, this is going around in Austin. Same symptoms. Some tested positive to Covid, many didn't. The kicker is that the cough lasts 1-2 months. Yay me.

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    1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

    There's some viral flu/whatever shit going around. I got picked it up last Wed night on a business trip to Pennsylvania. Started with a scratchy throat and sinus. It's been a full week of thick sinus issues, non-stop coughing, fatigue, on and off again fever. Got tested yesterday. Not Covid or flu, doc thinks it is viral. I haven't been this sick since, well, Covid but I was feeling fine after a week with Covid. Not this shit. A week later, still feeling like absolute shit. This motherfucking cough will not go away. Gave it to the wife. She's vaxxed with the latest and greatest. Didn't prevent her from getting this shit.

    Reading the Austin Reddit board, this is going around in Austin. Same symptoms. Some tested positive to Covid, many didn't. The kicker is that the cough lasts 1-2 months. Yay me.

    'Business trip' you say?

    Spoiler

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    zdewy3k7bo091.jpg

     

     

     

     

    Edited by Dnaguy
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    2 hours ago, crash_davis said:

    There's some viral flu/whatever shit going around. I got picked it up last Wed night on a business trip to Pennsylvania. Started with a scratchy throat and sinus. It's been a full week of thick sinus issues, non-stop coughing, fatigue, on and off again fever. Got tested yesterday. Not Covid or flu, doc thinks it is viral. I haven't been this sick since, well, Covid but I was feeling fine after a week with Covid. Not this shit. A week later, still feeling like absolute shit. This motherfucking cough will not go away. Gave it to the wife. She's vaxxed with the latest and greatest. Didn't prevent her from getting this shit.

    Reading the Austin Reddit board, this is going around in Austin. Same symptoms. Some tested positive to Covid, many didn't. The kicker is that the cough lasts 1-2 months. Yay me.

    I would bet that its RSV.

    Have had it the last two years.  Kicked my ass worse than each of my now 4 times with Covid.   

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    On 5/30/2024 at 11:23 AM, Incredulity said:

    I would bet that its RSV.

    Have had it the last two years.  Kicked my ass worse than each of my now 4 times with Covid.   

    Sounds serious. You should get the vaccine for it. 

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    On 6/3/2024 at 9:28 AM, kevwun said:

    Idiots yelling at someone who has taken dumps with a higher IQ than them.  Very productive.

    Strangely, two of the people very visible behind Fauci were Jan6 insurrectionists. Lotta overlap between the COVID deniers and the insurrectionists

    tkdl2yk42i4d1.thumb.png.b26ab0fdaa762ffa97e6a1f07d7be833.png

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    They were there to serve as intimidators to Fauci on someone's direction.  As if Fauci hasn't received enough threats in the last few years.  

    Fauci will have a dozen institutes and schools named after him by the time my daughters are my age.  

    Fellows will spend time in a federal prison which won't go well for him given those pretty lips.  Raiklin will be dead by his own hand in an apparent overdose and/or firearms accident.  It's really not that hard to hurt people in this day and age of untraceable money.  

    Having said that, I think I'm gonna hold off for my latest booster which is due.  Last couple were rough and I've other health shit going on and am on two Rx's for the first time in my life.  

     

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    On 6/4/2024 at 10:35 PM, YGIFS said:

    They were there to serve as intimidators to Fauci on someone's direction.  As if Fauci hasn't received enough threats in the last few years.  

    Fauci will have a dozen institutes and schools named after him by the time my daughters are my age.  

    Fellows will spend time in a federal prison which won't go well for him given those pretty lips.  Raiklin will be dead by his own hand in an apparent overdose and/or firearms accident.  It's really not that hard to hurt people in this day and age of untraceable money.  

    Having said that, I think I'm gonna hold off for my latest booster which is due.  Last couple were rough and I've other health shit going on and am on two Rx's for the first time in my life.  

     

    Fauci is responsible for more deaths outside of the folks who actually leaked the virus. He is a narcissistic demon who if there is any justice will burn in hell.

    More broadly, he and the public health establishment writ large lied about everything.

    They lied about masks.

    They lied about Ivermectin.

    They lied when they said the vaccine would prevent infection.

    They lied in order to close schools. (We had good evidence it was not necessary.) 

    They lied about the 6ft distancing. (No evidence)

    They lied about taking millions from Big Pharma. (260 NIAID scientists took $690 million in royalties from Big Pharma between 2021 and 2023. That's more than $3 million per scientist.)

    They lied about the origin of the virus.

    They signed a letter saying if you protested for BLM you would be safe, but if you gathered for MAGA you would transmit the virus.

    They lied about natural immunity.

    They lied about vaccine side effects. 

    They lied to make kids take a vaccine for a virus to which they were immune.

     

    You cannot just lie about every fucking thing you say, then turn around and say "trust us". There is documented evidence of the huge harm caused by their "advice", especially to kids. But the most damage they did was to convince people not to take the vaccine because they could not be trusted but rather are inveterate liars dispossessed of any conscience whatsoever. If there is another pandemic, there will be mass refusals to take any vaccine, despite any evidence. There is no trust, and their shouldn't be.

    I am vaccinated, and obviously very pro vaccine, because I read the studies. But science requires the confidence of the public, and the public health establishment could not have done a worse job. 

    Edited by Thetexashammer
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    6 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

    Fauci is responsible for more deaths outside of the folks who actually leaked the virus. He is a narcissistic demon who if there is any justice will burn in hell.

    More broadly, he and the public health establishment writ large lied about everything.

    They lied about masks.

    They lied about Ivermectin.

    They lied when they said the vaccine would prevent infection.

    They lied in order to close schools. (We had good evidence it was not necessary.) 

    They lied about the 6ft distancing. (No evidence)

    They lied about taking millions from Big Pharma. (260 NIAID scientists took $690 million in royalties from Big Pharma between 2021 and 2023. That's more than $3 million per scientist.)

    They lied about the origin of the virus.

    They signed a letter saying if you protested for BLM you would be safe, but if you gathered for MAGA you would transmit the virus.

    They lied about natural immunity.

    They lied about vaccine side effects. 

    They lied to make kids take a vaccine for a virus to which they were immune.

     

    You cannot just lie about every fucking thing you say, then turn around and say "trust us". There is documented evidence of the huge harm caused by their "advice", especially to kids. But the most damage they did was to convince people not to take the vaccine because they could not be trusted but rather are inveterate liars dispossessed of any conscience whatsoever. If there is another pandemic, there will be mass refusals to take any vaccine, despite any evidence. There is no trust, and their shouldn't be.

    I am vaccinated, and obviously very pro vaccine, because I read the studies. But science requires the confidence of the public, and the public health establishment could not have done a worse job. 

    Burnie Burns Conspiracy GIF by Rooster Teeth

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    23 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

    Fauci is responsible for more deaths outside of the folks who actually leaked the virus. He is a narcissistic demon who if there is any justice will burn in hell.

    More broadly, he and the public health establishment writ large lied about everything.

    They lied about masks.

    They lied about Ivermectin.

    They lied when they said the vaccine would prevent infection.

    They lied in order to close schools. (We had good evidence it was not necessary.) 

    They lied about the 6ft distancing. (No evidence)

    They lied about taking millions from Big Pharma. (260 NIAID scientists took $690 million in royalties from Big Pharma between 2021 and 2023. That's more than $3 million per scientist.)

    They lied about the origin of the virus.

    They signed a letter saying if you protested for BLM you would be safe, but if you gathered for MAGA you would transmit the virus.

    They lied about natural immunity.

    They lied about vaccine side effects. 

    They lied to make kids take a vaccine for a virus to which they were immune.

     

    You cannot just lie about every fucking thing you say, then turn around and say "trust us". There is documented evidence of the huge harm caused by their "advice", especially to kids. But the most damage they did was to convince people not to take the vaccine because they could not be trusted but rather are inveterate liars dispossessed of any conscience whatsoever. If there is another pandemic, there will be mass refusals to take any vaccine, despite any evidence. There is no trust, and their shouldn't be.

    I am vaccinated, and obviously very pro vaccine, because I read the studies. But science requires the confidence of the public, and the public health establishment could not have done a worse job. 

    The stupid, it burns.

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    On 5/6/2024 at 5:13 PM, bolverk said:

    It really was. I'd known him since the 2nd or 3rd grade when his family moved to town. He'd always been a cocky asshole, but we initially became friends because his family had the only in-ground swimming pool in the neighborhood that I knew of. We stayed relatively good friends through college, though, but he had an uncanny knack for always getting into some really stupid shit.

    I'm pretty sure he had Oppositional Defiance Disorder or something, so no one from our high school clique was at all surprised.

    I know this is a late response, but I'm pretty sure Covid provided evidence that around 30% of adults in this country suffer from ODD.   It was staggering to watch (and still is).

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    44 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

    Fauci is responsible for more deaths outside of the folks who actually leaked the virus. He is a narcissistic demon who if there is any justice will burn in hell.

    More broadly, he and the public health establishment writ large lied about everything.

    They lied about masks.

    They lied about Ivermectin.

    They lied when they said the vaccine would prevent infection.

    They lied in order to close schools. (We had good evidence it was not necessary.) 

    They lied about the 6ft distancing. (No evidence)

    They lied about taking millions from Big Pharma. (260 NIAID scientists took $690 million in royalties from Big Pharma between 2021 and 2023. That's more than $3 million per scientist.)

    They lied about the origin of the virus.

    They signed a letter saying if you protested for BLM you would be safe, but if you gathered for MAGA you would transmit the virus.

    They lied about natural immunity.

    They lied about vaccine side effects. 

    They lied to make kids take a vaccine for a virus to which they were immune.

     

    You cannot just lie about every fucking thing you say, then turn around and say "trust us". There is documented evidence of the huge harm caused by their "advice", especially to kids. But the most damage they did was to convince people not to take the vaccine because they could not be trusted but rather are inveterate liars dispossessed of any conscience whatsoever. If there is another pandemic, there will be mass refusals to take any vaccine, despite any evidence. There is no trust, and their shouldn't be.

    I am vaccinated, and obviously very pro vaccine, because I read the studies. But science requires the confidence of the public, and the public health establishment could not have done a worse job. 

    spacer.png

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    46 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

    image.thumb.png.2748e738ad30c9df86af8d3229f903ee.png

    Injecting bleach would solve at least one of society's problems, or so I'm told. 

    Edited by Dahobbs
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    2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

     

    And exercise in garbage meta analytic techniques.  

    I know a few epidemiologists who would argue that you're being repetitive. 

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    This is a pretty good narrative of what went on inside the White House. Atlas is a Stanford professor, and his arguments are evidence based, not based on emotion or some idiotic manichean understanding of the world.

     

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    lol:

    Quote

    Atlas was selected by President Donald Trump in August 2020 to serve as an advisor on the White House Coronavirus Task Force.[4] In that role, Atlas at times said misinformation about COVID-19, such as theories that face masks and social distancing were not effective in slowing the spread of the coronavirus.[5][6] His statements and influence on policies caused controversy within the task force.[7][8][9] Contrary to the recommendations of most of the scientific community,[10] Atlas recommended establishing herd immunity by allowing or encouraging low-risk people to get COVID-19 while attempting to protect more vulnerable people.[11][12]

    He advocated that states should not engage in COVID-19 testing of virus-exposed but asymptomatic individuals,[13] called for faster reopening of schools and businesses,[14][15][16] and encouraged residents to resist or "rise up" against state restrictions adopted to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.[17] Atlas resigned from his position in the White House on November 30, 2020.[18]

    lol2

    Quote

    Atlas is the Robert Wesson Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution, a conservative public policy think tank.[23][19] He joined the Hoover Institution in 2003.[23]

    He served as a senior advisor for health care to the Republican presidential campaigns of Rudy Giuliani in 2008 and Mitt Romney in 2012.[24][25]

    He has advocated eliminating the Affordable Care Act and replacing it with modified tax deductions and incentives. He has also called for changes to Medicare[26] and "aggressive reforms" to turn Medicaid "into a bridge to private insurance"[27] and encourage health savings accounts.[26] Atlas views the Medicaid expansion as "one of the most misguided parts" of the Affordable Care Act.[27] He opposes proposals to establish a public health insurance option[28] or single-payer healthcare.[29]

    In December 2021, Atlas helped found the Academy for Science and Freedom with Martin Kulldorff and Jay Bhattacharya, a program of the private conservative liberal arts college Hillsdale College.[30]

    On August 10, 2020, President Donald Trump announced that Atlas would join his administration as an advisor on COVID-19.[31] Atlas, a radiologist, is not a specialist in public health or infectious diseases.[32][33][34] He reportedly caught Trump's eye because of his frequent appearances on Fox News that summer.[35]

    No wonder you love the guy Hammer

    Quote

    He advised that the virus should be allowed to spread naturally among people deemed at low risk, while protecting the most vulnerable populations, so as to gain herd immunity.[11][12] The Washington Post reported that Atlas was the leading proponent within the Trump administration for a herd immunity approach to the virus, although some experts cautioned that such an approach could lead to hundreds of thousands more American deaths.[38][7] Atlas later denied that he advocated for the herd immunity strategy,[43][44] said "there's never been a desire to have cases spread through the community," and said it "has never been the president's policy."[45][46] However, in October and November 2020, he "touted" the Great Barrington Declaration, an open letter that calls for encouraging herd immunity.[47][48] He advocated for in-person school reopening and resumption of college sports during the pandemic.[15][33][38][32][36]

    He quickly became influential within the administration, and Trump welcomed his recommendations such as faster reopening and less testing, which were in accord with Trump's own preferences.[14][32] Atlas was the only doctor to share the stage at Trump's pandemic briefings in the week after his appointment was announced,[33] and he also prepared Trump's briefing materials

     

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    If your horse’s ivermectin erection releases worms into your brain for more than four hours, please seek medical care.  
     

    wow, dude.  You’re gonna open your TED talk with that?  

    Edited by YGIFS
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    8 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

    Possibly. Show your work.

    Here is a decent article on it.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/the-anonymous-meta-analysis-thats-convincing-people-to-use-ivermectin/

    As an example, the very first study it cites as a RCT (Chowdhury et al., A Comparative Study on Ivermectin-Doxycycline and Hydroxychloroquine-Azithromycin Therapy on COVID-19 Patients) doesn't actually show or even conclude that Ivermectin is a good treatment. That study compared ivermectin+doxycycline vs HCQ+AZ. It did not have a placebo group. The study itself failed find any statistically significant differences between the two treatment, though it stated the raw numbers favored the ivermectin treatment. Further studies comparing those treatments against a placebo show that neither is effective, which is why there was no statistically significant different between them. Yet, the authors are just throwing in raw numbers from studies like this to say "Ivermectin works."  

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    25 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

    This is a pretty good narrative of what went on inside the White House. Atlas is a Stanford professor, and his arguments are evidence based, not based on emotion or some idiotic manichean understanding of the world.

     

    You forgot to mention the “tremendous power platform that saved millions of lives.”  

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    24 minutes ago, B00M said:

    This mother fucker in here pushing ivermectin and YouTube doctors telling the rest of us to show our work 

    He's just asking questions.

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    1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

    The stupid, it burns.

    It's just incredible.   And frightening.  It's also why I refuse to talk about anything like this, or politics of any kind, with anyone in person, ever.  If someone opens their mouth and spews out the complete pile of bullshit that TexasHammer just laid out, I would never be able to take them seriously or even deal with them in any capacity, ever again.  Generally speaking, morons can be fun to hang out with so long as you don't know their deep thoughts, and I don't want to ruin any potential good times to be had.  Most of my family is dumber than a bag of broken dildos as well, so I would never be able to attend holiday get-togethers if I held that aga . . . wait a minute. 

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    25 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

    Here is a decent article on it.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/the-anonymous-meta-analysis-thats-convincing-people-to-use-ivermectin/

    As an example, the very first study it cites as a RCT (Chowdhury et al., A Comparative Study on Ivermectin-Doxycycline and Hydroxychloroquine-Azithromycin Therapy on COVID-19 Patients) doesn't actually show or even conclude that Ivermectin is a good treatment. That study compared ivermectin+doxycycline vs HCQ+AZ. It did not have a placebo group. The study itself failed find any statistically significant differences between the two treatment, though it stated the raw numbers favored the ivermectin treatment. Further studies comparing those treatments against a placebo show that neither is effective, which is why there was no statistically significant different between them. Yet, the authors are just throwing in raw numbers from studies like this to say "Ivermectin works."  

    Didn't they also rely on a large study from India where a decent percent of the population has internal parasites?

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    2 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

    Didn't they also rely on a large study from India where a decent percent of the population has internal parasites?

    It is a dreadful, dreadful place. It's the only country that still has the plague.

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    18 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

    Didn't they also rely on a large study from India where a decent percent of the population has internal parasites?

    That specific study I cited was from India. There are a large number of them in there. 

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    1 hour ago, chainsaw said:

    It is a dreadful, dreadful place. It's the only country that still has the plague.

    I mean, c'mon!  the plague!  Just send a gift a be grateful you don't have to go.  

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    8 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

    Fauci is responsible for more deaths outside of the folks who actually leaked the virus. He is a narcissistic demon who if there is any justice will burn in hell.

    More broadly, he and the public health establishment writ large lied about everything.

    They lied about masks.

    They lied about Ivermectin.

    They lied when they said the vaccine would prevent infection.

    They lied in order to close schools. (We had good evidence it was not necessary.) 

    They lied about the 6ft distancing. (No evidence)

    They lied about taking millions from Big Pharma. (260 NIAID scientists took $690 million in royalties from Big Pharma between 2021 and 2023. That's more than $3 million per scientist.)

    They lied about the origin of the virus.

    They signed a letter saying if you protested for BLM you would be safe, but if you gathered for MAGA you would transmit the virus.

    They lied about natural immunity.

    They lied about vaccine side effects. 

    They lied to make kids take a vaccine for a virus to which they were immune.

     

    You cannot just lie about every fucking thing you say, then turn around and say "trust us". There is documented evidence of the huge harm caused by their "advice", especially to kids. But the most damage they did was to convince people not to take the vaccine because they could not be trusted but rather are inveterate liars dispossessed of any conscience whatsoever. If there is another pandemic, there will be mass refusals to take any vaccine, despite any evidence. There is no trust, and their shouldn't be.

    I am vaccinated, and obviously very pro vaccine, because I read the studies. But science requires the confidence of the public, and the public health establishment could not have done a worse job. 

    you make T-tom look smart and sane. 

    How exactly is Fauci responsible for a huge amount of deaths?  If dumb fuck rural red state people did not wear masks, that’s not on Fauci.  That’s on every stupid MAGA redneck who did his own research.

    it is hard to choose, but the bold language is perhaps the most headache inducing part of your missive. Who are ‘they’, and who do you say they lied to? And what was the lie? How was the question asked? How did they answer? When the voice in your head screams at you at night that the immigrants are coming across the river to kill you, does The Voice have an accent?

    Please elaborate

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    9 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

    Fauci is responsible for more deaths outside of the folks who actually leaked the virus. He is a narcissistic demon who if there is any justice will burn in hell.

    More broadly, he and the public health establishment writ large lied about everything.

    They lied about masks.

    They lied about Ivermectin.

    They lied when they said the vaccine would prevent infection.

    They lied in order to close schools. (We had good evidence it was not necessary.) 

    They lied about the 6ft distancing. (No evidence)

    They lied about taking millions from Big Pharma. (260 NIAID scientists took $690 million in royalties from Big Pharma between 2021 and 2023. That's more than $3 million per scientist.)

    They lied about the origin of the virus.

    They signed a letter saying if you protested for BLM you would be safe, but if you gathered for MAGA you would transmit the virus.

    They lied about natural immunity.

    They lied about vaccine side effects. 

    They lied to make kids take a vaccine for a virus to which they were immune.

     

    You cannot just lie about every fucking thing you say, then turn around and say "trust us". There is documented evidence of the huge harm caused by their "advice", especially to kids. But the most damage they did was to convince people not to take the vaccine because they could not be trusted but rather are inveterate liars dispossessed of any conscience whatsoever. If there is another pandemic, there will be mass refusals to take any vaccine, despite any evidence. There is no trust, and their shouldn't be.

    I am vaccinated, and obviously very pro vaccine, because I read the studies. But science requires the confidence of the public, and the public health establishment could not have done a worse job. 

    You are insane 

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