All Encompassing Mortgage and Real Estate Thread

[jdhorn92 1524]

23 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

oh jhorn, there are quite a few nurses that have "travel buddies" that take contracts together and room together (and 69 and whatnot according to my imagination).  There's certainly a market for something larger than a single. 

We’re hoping for that. We have a 3 BR, but now we’re thinking to making 3rd BR into an office, catch all room, etc… but we have been told the contract nurses may come in pairs 

[UTPhil2006 3754]

Did they just randomly decide at 8:45 to drop .05? It’s damn near a straight line down on the graph 

[hornmpa96 2516]

I just received a pre-completed mortgage application from Chase Home Lending via UPS today. However, it’s in the name of one of the prior homeowners and I obliviously didn’t request it.

I’ve owned this home for over a decade and assume someone is trying to commit fraud here.

I looked up the Chase mortgage broker online and just left a voicemail that this is fraud.

Anything else I should do?

[UTPhil2006 3754]

6 minutes ago, hornmpa96 said:

I just received a pre-completed mortgage application from Chase Home Lending via UPS today. However, it’s in the name of one of the prior homeowners and I obliviously didn’t request it.

I’ve owned this home for over a decade and assume someone is trying to commit fraud here.

I looked up the Chase mortgage broker online and just left a voicemail that this is fraud.

Anything else I should do?

May also want to let your current lien holder know in case they received a payoff request 

[Neonmoon 38126]

6 hours ago, hornmpa96 said:

I’ve owned this home for over a decade and assume someone is trying to commit fraud here.

Never underestimate the level of stupidity in the world. It’s probably fraud, but it could be some a stupid person didn’t update something. 

[hornmpa96 2516]

2 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Never underestimate the level of stupidity in the world. It’s probably fraud, but it could be some a stupid person didn’t update something. 

Chase Mortgage Broker called me back and it was absolutely stupid. Chase never updated the address for the prior owner and when they called to mortgage their current home, Chase just rolled with the address on file.

Just completely stupid.

[UTPhil2006 3754]

Another reason to go with a local guy instead of a big bank 

[CleverNickname 1279]

is it true that fed back loans require replacement cost roof coverage and just ACV? anybody had to deal with that?

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

Burn baby burn. 
MBs down 43 basis points. And away we go!  10 year broken through resistance at 4.67 all the way up to 4.72. Next stop-5.0!  
This is totally awesome. 

[Izhmash 552]

Which one of you guys were selling me in January 2023 on the notion that within 12-18 months we would be looking to refinance at 4.5%? 
 

Edited April 25 by Izhmash

[Incredulity 11141]

5 minutes ago, Izhmash said:

Which one of you guys were selling me in January 2023 on the notion that within 12-18 months we would be looking to refinance at 4.5%? 
 

Damn near everyone.  Shit January of '24, the broad consensus was 6, thats right 6, rate cuts.

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

18 minutes ago, Izhmash said:

Which one of you guys were selling me in January 2023 on the notion that within 12-18 months we would be looking to refinance at 4.5%? 
 

I still believe that almost every loan written in 2003 will someday be refinanced. Or at least refinance eligible depending upon time frame.  Nothing lasts forever. 

[Incredulity 11141]

I assume you mean '23.

Unfortunately, "someday be refinanced" is literally meaningless.   

There was logic in the thinking rates COULD come down and the mortgages would be refinanced.  Of course that was never a certainty and some will claim they were sold a bill of goods.

 

I will say it for the hundredth time, I think rates coming down is inevitable due to the federal debt accumulation.  whether that is 6weeks, 6 months or 60 months away is anyone's guess.

[UTPhil2006 3754]

10 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I still believe that almost every loan written in 2003 will someday be refinanced. Or at least refinance eligible depending upon time frame.  Nothing lasts forever. 

Well it was 21 years ago so some may have been paid off 

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

I assume you mean '23.

Unfortunately, "someday be refinanced" is literally meaningless.   

There was logic in the thinking rates COULD come down and the mortgages would be refinanced.  Of course that was never a certainty and some will claim they were sold a bill of goods.

 

I will say it for the hundredth time, I think rates coming down is inevitable due to the federal debt accumulation.  whether that is 6weeks, 6 months or 60 months away is anyone's guess.

Yes I meant 23 of course.

when you say come down what do you mean?  My bet is before 26 ends I will put at least a couple people/ who didn’t buy points- into a 30 year loan that starts with a 3 in it. 
feel free to clip this and mock me mercilessly in 2.75 years. 

[Incredulity 11141]

Just now, Wulaw Horn said:

when you say come down what do you mean?

I don't have a target number or timeframe, unfortunately

[MonkeyDoughnut 9944]

3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yes I meant 23 of course.

when you say come down what do you mean?  My bet is before 26 ends I will put at least a couple people/ who didn’t buy points- into a 30 year loan that starts with a 3 in it. 
feel free to clip this and mock me mercilessly in 2.75 years. 

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

48 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I will keep this updated by posting my lowest 30 year loan YTD (not buying points) on a conventional loan.

Right now I had someone in at 6.124%- no points on a standard 30 year conventional.  That's winning the year for the present.  Hopefully I bump this post before the end of the year- but I'm starting to worry I might not.  

[MonkeyDoughnut 9944]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I will keep this updated by posting my lowest 30 year loan YTD (not buying points) on a conventional loan.

Right now I had someone in at 6.124%- no points on a standard 30 year conventional.  That's winning the year for the present.  Hopefully I bump this post before the end of the year- but I'm starting to worry I might not.  

I'm rooting for you (and us), just don't see any context where that happens anytime soon.  I'm much more of the belief that we'll end 2026 thinking  6.124%  isn't bad.

[UTPhil2006 3754]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I will keep this updated by posting my lowest 30 year loan YTD (not buying points) on a conventional loan.

Right now I had someone in at 6.124%- no points on a standard 30 year conventional.  That's winning the year for the present.  Hopefully I bump this post before the end of the year- but I'm starting to worry I might not.  

I think we may have had a 5.99 or two but loan amount and other factors come into play so kind of apples and oranges 

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

1 hour ago, UTPhil2006 said:

I think we may have had a 5.99 or two but loan amount and other factors come into play so kind of apples and oranges 

Yep. That 6.124 we actually paid 3k in closing costs so if he wanted he could have gotten sub 6, but didn’t. 

1 hour ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I'm rooting for you (and us), just don't see any context where that happens anytime soon.  I'm much more of the belief that we'll end 2026 thinking  6.124%  isn't bad.

I hope not- but that’s the way it looks right now. 
hell- I will be fine with that end of 26 if we have a couple months in the low 5’s on the up and down roller coaster…

[Neonmoon 38126]

6 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yes I meant 23 of course.

when you say come down what do you mean?  My bet is before 26 ends I will put at least a couple people/ who didn’t buy points- into a 30 year loan that starts with a 3 in it. 
feel free to clip this and mock me mercilessly in 2.75 years. 

You are smoking crack

(But I pray you’re right)

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

11 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

You are smoking crack

(But I pray you’re right)

To be clear I’m not saying national average- I’m saying the right deal as Phil pointed out loan amounts, ltv’s etc. 

nothing lasts forever. 

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

You are smoking crack

(But I pray you’re right)

24 years since average rate was as high as it was in 2023. You’d have been able to get a 30 year fixed sub 5 on the right deal almost every single 3 year range since 2000. We shall see what this portends. 

[UTPhil2006 3754]

PCE up, 10 year down (for now) 

[Storm the Field 5239]

14 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

PCE up, 10 year down (for now) 

2.8% actual vs. 2.7% estimate. 

Markets were wincing in anticipation of a big overshoot (>3.0%)  based on yesterday's GDP report, breathed a sigh of relief at only a small hiccup.

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

1 hour ago, Storm the Field said:

2.8% actual vs. 2.7% estimate. 

Markets were wincing in anticipation of a big overshoot (>3.0%)  based on yesterday's GDP report, breathed a sigh of relief at only a small hiccup.

Yep. Was expecting to lock yesterday afternoon and carnage this morning- but we did our anticipatory freak out 24 hours early. 

[closetohumping 17258]

Saw this at a real estate group:

 

 

 

Long. But worthwhile:

Well, I just seen how the new commission structure is going to harm Buyers. 

We had a $550,000 listing in the MLS and a buyers agent brought a buyer, the agent was unhappy with the split we were offering. Keep in mind that the split was half of the listing commission. The listing agent was making no more money than the buying agent. However, the buying agent had exclusive buyers agent agreement that entitled them to just a little bit more commission(.5%)This offer had about four counter offers and each time the agent asked for the additional commission and the seller said no. All other terms of the contract had been agreed to except for this additional commission meanwhile, another agent come in and wrote a similar price offer without asking for the extra commission. The seller agreed to accept that offer. 
So this exclusive buyers agency agreement cost the buyer their home and I bet they really didn’t care whether their agent made this additional amount of money. They just wanted the house.  as a broker owner I cringed to think of the liability this agent just put her brokerage into with the buyer losing the house over this small amount of commission that they wanted.

To expand on the above ;
The buyer lost the house because the buyers agent wanted an additional 2750 in commission. The buyers agent was told on three separate counters no. At the end of the day, the buyers agent ended up with a no sale so holding out for an additional 2750 cost the agent the sale and 13750 in commission. I see a lot of comments where they say well I’m worth this or I’m worth that at the end of the day. If you do not get it a closed deal with that buyer you make zero. we all know how hard it is to find homes for buyers in this current market. Their contract might run up with this buyer and they will go elsewhere since they’ve lost a house that they bid full price on and lost due to commission. 

Also, the seller did not give the buyer the chance to remove this from their last counter offer as they received another offer without that request,  so they just accepted the other offer. Maybe if we were in a buyers market these buyers could be requesting all this commission restructured in the contract but in a sellers market it is going to be very difficult.

 

[Gravy Train 969]

...and somewhere in that wild scenario, the buyer's agent never shared this conflict with their clients over an opportunity to make up for the lost commssion at closing, but instead remained mum and lost the deal for their client?  Sounds like a bunch of bullshit, but now that this lesson has been learned, the client has enough motivation to tell their agent to fuck off and buy without representation altogether.  In a sellers' market, that seems like the route to me.

Or maybe this agent is woefully behind the times and realizes they need to :checks bootstraps: and find more sellable inventory while trying a more honest approach with his/her clients on future buyer representation.  

We're not exactly in an extreme sellers' market anymore; the story above already hints at challenges to find qualified buyers, but at the same time, the number of NEW SFHs for sale has risen to 477,000, the highest level since the 2008 Financial Crisis, so read the tea leaves.

[closetohumping 17258]

7 hours ago, Gravy Train said:

...and somewhere in that wild scenario, the buyer's agent never shared this conflict with their clients over an opportunity to make up for the lost commssion at closing, but instead remained mum and lost the deal for their client?  Sounds like a bunch of bullshit, but now that this lesson has been learned, the client has enough motivation to tell their agent to fuck off and buy without representation altogether.  In a sellers' market, that seems like the route to me.

Or maybe this agent is woefully behind the times and realizes they need to :checks bootstraps: and find more sellable inventory while trying a more honest approach with his/her clients on future buyer representation.  

We're not exactly in an extreme sellers' market anymore; the story above already hints at challenges to find qualified buyers, but at the same time, the number of NEW SFHs for sale has risen to 477,000, the highest level since the 2008 Financial Crisis, so read the tea leaves.

Gave up a 13k commission because they were entitled to 15k?  Now they have zero and their client does not have. A home.  It’s a world I don’t understand obviously.  Also maybe that 2700 delta is important to the clients qualification 

[UTPhil2006 3754]

26 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Gave up a 13k commission because they were entitled to 15k?  Now they have zero and their client does not have. A home.  It’s a world I don’t understand obviously.  Also maybe that 2700 delta is important to the clients qualification 

That’s just dumb, selfish, and ignorant by the buyers agent and they deserved to lose it. Why on earth would they push for more than the usual 3% especially in the face of losing the deal. Pure idiocy. 

[closetohumping 17258]

8 hours ago, Gravy Train said:

...and somewhere in that wild scenario, the buyer's agent never shared this conflict with their clients over an opportunity to make up for the lost commssion at closing, but instead remained mum and lost the deal for their client?  Sounds like a bunch of bullshit, but now that this lesson has been learned, the client has enough motivation to tell their agent to fuck off and buy without representation altogether.  In a sellers' market, that seems like the route to me.

Or maybe this agent is woefully behind the times and realizes they need to :checks bootstraps: and find more sellable inventory while trying a more honest approach with his/her clients on future buyer representation.  

We're not exactly in an extreme sellers' market anymore; the story above already hints at challenges to find qualified buyers, but at the same time, the number of NEW SFHs for sale has risen to 477,000, the highest level since the 2008 Financial Crisis, so read the tea leaves.

Seller accepted another offer?  Not sure of their location. 

[LCHorn 2527]

Something about the math on that story doesn’t make sense.  Usually a listing agent putting it on MLS at a reduced commission isn’t expecting that to come out of the buyer’s agents pocket.  
 

This sounds like a greedy listing agent to me and not something that only just started to happen because of the NAR settlement.

 

[Neonmoon 38126]

Buyers/Sellers need to shop around for a real estate agent and negotiate a better deal. I absolutely believe everyone should use a real estate agent, but the agency contract should be negotiated with more fervor. Compensation, length of contract, etc. I know there’s lots of good agents out there, but there’s also some shitty ones. 

[closetohumping 17258]

18 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

Something about the math on that story doesn’t make sense.  Usually a listing agent putting it on MLS at a reduced commission isn’t expecting that to come out of the buyer’s agents pocket.  
 

This sounds like a greedy listing agent to me and not something that only just started to happen because of the NAR settlement.

 

Not sure. Per the post it was a 50/50 split 13k each side.  So on a 500k home the selling agent only paid 2%?  Maybe that’s normal for expensive homes and I guess 500k is a lot in the Midwest.  Curious what was the verbiage between buyer/buyer agent?  Losing 13k over 2700 and your clients is homeless?  Meg

[LCHorn 2527]

3 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Not sure. Per the post it was a 50/50 split 13k each side.  So on a 500k home the selling agent only paid 2%?  Maybe that’s normal for expensive homes and I guess 500k is a lot in the Midwest.  Curious what was the verbiage between buyer/buyer agent?  Losing 13k over 2700 and your clients is homeless?  Meg

Yeah, that sounds to me like a listing agent who took the listing at a cheap rate and wants the buyer’s agent to make up the difference.  Most buyers agents would be happy to do a deal for 2% commission, but being forced to do so with no negotiation I’m sure results in push back.  
 

There’s a reason why the otherwise reprehensible big builders go to great pains to advertise their homes with 3% to the buyer’s agent.  You don’t want to do anything that discourages a buyer’s agent from bringing the buyer in.   
 

Also, you essentially had five offers, four at $2750 below list (because the way to easily negotiate this is have the buyer pay more and the seller rebate it back to the buyer’s agent) and one at list and you took the one at list rather than try to get more money?  If I’m an agent and I’ve got five offers, all within 2% of list I’m going to give everyone a chance to increase their offer.
 

[closetohumping 17258]

2 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

Yeah, that sounds to me like a listing agent who took the listing at a cheap rate and wants the buyer’s agent to make up the difference.  Most buyers agents would be happy to do a deal for 2% commission, but being forced to do so with no negotiation I’m sure results in push back.  
 

There’s a reason why the otherwise reprehensible big builders go to great pains to advertise their homes with 3% to the buyer’s agent.  You don’t want to do anything that discourages a buyer’s agent from bringing the buyer in.   
 

Also, you essentially had five offers, four at $2750 below list (because the way to easily negotiate this is have the buyer pay more and the seller rebate it back to the buyer’s agent) and one at list and you took the one at list rather than try to get more money?  If I’m an agent and I’ve got five offers, all within 2% of list I’m going to give everyone a chance to increase their offer.
 

Right but it was a 50/50 split per the post.  They both walk with 13k plus.  Yes sounds like normal is 6% though I know for higher end homes you don’t get 6. 
 

im not a real estate agent.  I guess if I’m the buyer agent I take the 13k and move on?  If I’m the buyer I may find another agent.  
 

the seller agent listed the commission right?  As the buyer agent you know walking in what you were gonna get paid and commissions are negotiable.  I’ve even heard of buying agent s giving up a portion of commission to close the deal and move on

[UTPhil2006 3754]

The buyers agent Nuked the deal over their own pocket, and should be fired for that alone. Hell, we had a VA deal last year that the appraisal came in light and we had to cut our commission 6k to get it done. And this person is out here killing deals out of trying to squeeze out 2750 more. 

[Dbeasy 14733]

21 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

The buyers agent Nuked the deal over their own pocket, and should be fired for that alone. Hell, we had a VA deal last year that the appraisal came in light and we had to cut our commission 6k to get it done. And this person is out here killing deals out of trying to squeeze out 2750 more. 

I hear what you are saying and I probably would have dropped my commission to get the deal done, but unless I'm misunderstanding something, the buyer agent negotiated a rate with the buyer, but when it came time to pay that rate on the house they wanted to purchase, the buyer wasn't offering a high enough price to make the deal work. The fundamental issue goes back to what price the buyer negotiated with the agent.  I may be missing something here.

[Dbeasy 14733]

I don't understand the following post in an online site that exposes corporate misconduct. Maybe one of the mortgage folks here understands this:

 

Hunterbrook Media, a new media outlet that shares its stories in advance with an affiliated hedge fund, published a follow-up article on UWM Holdings (NYSE: UWMC — $10.2 billion), a wholesale mortgage lender. Hunterbrook Media said it “learned that a UWM executive set up a shell company that in 2019 was used to purchase and establish UMortgage, a Philadelphia-based mortgage company that brands itself as independent.” Hunterbrook also highlighted videos posted by a former UMortgage originator who claimed that “UMortgage leadership regularly manipulates its rate sheets to make UWM’s loans appear cheaper than those from other lenders — without telling the UMortgage loan originators whose responsibility it is to shop for the best deal on behalf of clients.”

[UTPhil2006 3754]

2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I hear what you are saying and I probably would have dropped my commission to get the deal done, but unless I'm misunderstanding something, the buyer agent negotiated a rate with the buyer, but when it came time to pay that rate on the house they wanted to purchase, the buyer wasn't offering a high enough price to make the deal work. The fundamental issue goes back to what price the buyer negotiated with the agent.  I may be missing something here.

There’s definitely holes in the story as is usual with social media, but the root of it is the deal was killed over something that was easily corrected. 

[LCHorn 2527]

32 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Right but it was a 50/50 split per the post.  They both walk with 13k plus.  Yes sounds like normal is 6% though I know for higher end homes you don’t get 6. 

The fact it’s 50-50 is immaterial.  The listing agent offered to list it for a reduced rate.  It’s customary (but changing) for a buyer’s agent to expect to be paid 3% and obviously they have to be flexible about that, at times.  
 

There’s also this presumption (in the recounting) that the buyer was unaware of all of this and lost out on a house because of it.  Obviously that might be true, but it also might be true that the buyer was on board with countering that the seller’s agent should give up that extra .5% of their commission.  Usually buyers are pretty loyal to the agent hauling them around every weekend and agents are usually pretty good about creating relationships, which is why they are in this business in the first place.  

[closetohumping 17258]

7 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

The fact it’s 50-50 is immaterial.  The listing agent offered to list it for a reduced rate.  It’s customary (but changing) for a buyer’s agent to expect to be paid 3% and obviously they have to be flexible about that, at times.  
 

There’s also this presumption (in the recounting) that the buyer was unaware of all of this and lost out on a house because of it.  Obviously that might be true, but it also might be true that the buyer was on board with countering that the seller’s agent should give up that extra .5% of their commission.  Usually buyers are pretty loyal to the agent hauling them around every weekend and agents are usually pretty good about creating relationships, which is why they are in this business in the first place.  

So when you bring a buyer to a listing , do you already know what your commission will be?   It’s listed in the mls right?

[UTPhil2006 3754]

Just now, closetohumping said:

So when you bring a buyer to a listing , do you already know what your commission will be?   It’s listed in the mls right?

For now. That’s going away in the next couple months. 

[Neonmoon 38126]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

I don't understand the following post in an online site that exposes corporate misconduct. Maybe one of the mortgage folks here understands this:

 

Hunterbrook Media, a new media outlet that shares its stories in advance with an affiliated hedge fund, published a follow-up article on UWM Holdings (NYSE: UWMC — $10.2 billion), a wholesale mortgage lender. Hunterbrook Media said it “learned that a UWM executive set up a shell company that in 2019 was used to purchase and establish UMortgage, a Philadelphia-based mortgage company that brands itself as independent.” Hunterbrook also highlighted videos posted by a former UMortgage originator who claimed that “UMortgage leadership regularly manipulates its rate sheets to make UWM’s loans appear cheaper than those from other lenders — without telling the UMortgage loan originators whose responsibility it is to shop for the best deal on behalf of clients.”

I believe Hunterbrook “Media” was created by Rocket to attack UWM. Lots of Shenanigans. I’d take everything they post with a giant grain of salt. That being said, I don’t see what’s wrong with UWM creating other companies to funnel them business. The only issue would be if UMortage doesn’t disclose this affiliation to their clients. 

 

[UTPhil2006 3754]

I would 98% wager to say Hunterbrook is funded or setup by Dan Gilbert 

[Gil Bang 25509]

11 hours ago, closetohumping said:

So when you bring a buyer to a listing , do you already know what your commission will be?   It’s listed in the mls right?

I belong to the biggest MLS in the country (CRMLS),and yes, commission to the buyer's agent is listed. That's changing soon, but it's still there now. 

[UTPhil2006 3754]

Posting for a family friend/anyone looking in Tomball - https://www.har.com/homedetail/19202-palfrey-prairie-trl-tomball-tx-77377/15548659

[Esque 135]

ECI and Case Schiller up above expectations this morning.  Assume key rates will respond higher today.  Hold your breath.

[UTPhil2006 3754]

28 minutes ago, Esque said:

ECI and Case Schiller up above expectations this morning.  Assume key rates will respond higher today.  Hold your breath.

Yep. The .04 we gained yesterday is already gone. .05 up and counting