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Israel-Hamas war thread


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6 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

I don't think the US wrecked Baghdad, even the immediate aftermath of the bombing live show broadcast worldwide, reporters noted limited damage.  For Baghdad alone, the US was gentle in comparison to Israel.  We know IDF was using AI to find every single low level Hamas operative, killing 20-100 people in the building for 1 guy who wasn't even weaponized at the time. 

IIRC Falujah had 80% of civilians evacuated to the countryside before the US moved in. 

Baghdad offensive capabilities & infrastructure were targeted - electricity, sanitation, water, communications, etc. in additional to military and dual-use sites.  

As for evacuations, I read that 85% of civilians were evacuated in Gaza

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11 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Baghdad offensive capabilities & infrastructure were targeted - electricity, sanitation, water, communications, etc. in additional to military and dual-use sites.  

As for evacuations, I read that 85% of civilians were evacuated in Gaza

Gazans were not evacuated, or did not evacuate, during the prime killing days, the first 2 weeks.  I'll disagree with the extent of damage to Baghdad compared to Gaza.  Morally though, the US had no business being there in the first place, but that's another thread.  Baghdad civilians were able to conduct normal lives for the most part. 

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4 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

to where? The are still in Gaza. Just pushed south.

Yeah, that's the rub.  According to Israel, which take that for what it's worth, 85% of the people were "shifted" away from the areas of attack.  Even if accurate, still leaves a ton of people on the X.  

 

4 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

I'll disagree with the extent of damage to Baghdad compared to Gaza.  Morally though, the US had no business being there in the first place, but that's another thread.  Baghdad civilians were able to conduct normal lives for t

All true.  I read something like 25K civilian casualties in Baghdad?  Less, but not great Bob.  I'd compare Fallujah to Gaza, not Baghdad

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Why would they?  All the international pressure and condemnation is on Israel.  Each side is fucking the civilians.  They have no representation in the region.  Hamas uses them as human shields, and Israel doesn't fucking care.  Those that can/did evacuate, again - to where?  A camp?  You return to a house of rubble and no hope?  

If there is a ceasefire - then what?  Back to BAU.  The whole thing is untenable and we all know it.  People talk about "privilege's" - it's not being fucking born in Gaza.  Or maybe a Cobalt mine in Africa.  

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20 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

Sounds like the ball is Hamas' court. Release hostages for a ceasefire. If they reject it Rafah gets invaded.

CHIEF

Wait, so Saudi Arabia is hosting talks that include the international condemnation of US weapons being used outside of allowed or acceptable practices?  Saudi Arabia?  Who's human rights in Yemen over the last 8 years have seen tens of thousands killed and a Holodomor-esq mass starvation of millions more.....using US weapons.  Get fucked Saudi Arabia

Edited by BabaYaga
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 I think Israel offered feeling that Hamas is stupid enough to reject it. If they do reject it, Israel will try to gain sympathy and lessen criticism of their actions. If Hamas doesn't care about their civilians and any humanitarian aid, why should we.

CHIEF 

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that's a really low civilian death toll in the Fallujah 2nd battle .  Obviously most of the civilians were gone but still.  Basic take on this comparison to Gaza is the IDF was specifically vindictive and bloodthirsty regarding civilians than allied forces in Iraq.  The US did not stop humanitarian aid to civilians AFAIK, that one thing is a giveway about the Israelis.

U.S. military officials estimated that 70–90% of the 300,000 civilians in the city fled before the attack, leaving 30,000 to 90,000 civilians still in the city.[37]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Fallujah

Civilian casualties:
581–670 killed (Iraq Body Count)[16]
800 killed (Red Cross)[17]

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9 minutes ago, Make em eat Taco Bell said:

that's a really low civilian death toll in the Fallujah 2nd battle .  Obviously most of the civilians were gone but still.  Basic take on this comparison to Gaza is the IDF was specifically vindictive and bloodthirsty regarding civilians than allied forces in Iraq.  The US did not stop humanitarian aid to civilians AFAIK, that one thing is a giveway about the Israelis.

U.S. military officials estimated that 70–90% of the 300,000 civilians in the city fled before the attack, leaving 30,000 to 90,000 civilians still in the city.[37]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Fallujah

Civilian casualties:
581–670 killed (Iraq Body Count)[16]
800 killed (Red Cross)[17]

100%, Gaza is exponentially worse.  All three battles for Fallujah are just fairly recent examples of even when you try and mitigate as many casualties as you can, there are still so many impacted. In Fallujah most of the Mosques had weapons in them, so they got leveled.  The IDF again is playing the wrong game.  Hamas is too well integrated with the civilians who they know the IDF will target, so don't play into their hands.  They had the chance to keep most of the city intact, go in and use their operators and root Hamas out.  It would have resulted in significant casualties on both sides, but better protected the civilians - something they could have lauded to the international community that even in the face of spilled Israeli blood, they will protect Palestine people as best they can and spill even more military blood proving this.  But they went full Dick Cheney and are proper fucked now

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Israel is simply hitting spots where there is no Hamas weapons and firing has almost 100% stopped.  Today, why did these 3 families have to be murdered ?

https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2024/04/29/israeli-strikes-rafah-palestinians-war

Israeli airstrikes on the southern Gaza city of Rafah have killed at least 22 people, including six women and five children, Palestinian health officials say. One of the children killed in the strikes overnight into Monday was just 5 days old.

The overnight strikes hit three family homes. The first killed 11 people, including four siblings aged 9 to 27, according to records at the Abu Yousef al-Najjar Hospital, where the bodies were taken. The second strike killed eight people, including a 33-year-old father and his 5-day-old boy, according to hospital records. The third strike killed three siblings, aged 23, 19 and 12. An Associated Press reporter saw the bodies at the hospital.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/29/middleeast/israeli-airstrike-rafah-gaza-intl/index.html

People are seen crouching over the body bags, with some caressing their loved one’s lifeless bodies. At least one baby’s head can be seen sticking out of a bag, as the woman beside it shouts: “My whole family has perished.”

 

People are seen crouching over the body bags, with some caressing their loved one’s lifeless bodies. At least one baby’s head can be seen sticking out of a bag, as the woman beside it shouts: “My whole family has perished.”

 

The baby’s uncle, Mahmoud Abu Taha, was carrying the 1-year-old’s lifeless body while talking to the camera, saying his parents had tried having children for 10 years before he was born.

“We were sitting in our homes, not doing anything. It was unexpected when they struck the house. Everyone was asleep in their beds… most of the people that were killed were displaced… they were women and children,” he said.

Lifting the baby boy’s body to the camera, Mahmoud Abu Taha cries out, “this is who they are targeting. This is their objective. This is the generation they’re looking for. This is the safe Rafah they talk about.”

In response to a CNN request for comment regarding the Rafah strike on Monday, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said in a statement that its fighter jets “struck terror targets where terrorists were operating within a civilian area in southern Gaza.”

but none of the dead were terror targets, batshit psychopathic Israel

f_webp

Edited by Make em eat Taco Bell
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On 4/29/2024 at 12:36 PM, CHIEF said:

 I think Israel offered feeling that Hamas is stupid enough to reject it. If they do reject it, Israel will try to gain sympathy and lessen criticism of their actions. If Hamas doesn't care about their civilians and any humanitarian aid, why should we.

CHIEF 

I believe the offer was only a 40 day seize fire, but not allowed to return to Northern Gaza

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Look. I'm about to say some crazy shit. Stay with me.

...how about Israel keeps going after Hamas...

BUT..., doesn't kill random Palestinians?

Has anyone thought of that? 

 

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Wow. Twelve hours between between the last post and the one before, while protest threads have several posts per minute. The IDF could invade Rafah, and no American would know it for 48 hours. The protests have completely derailed what is currently going on in Gaza. Americans have to have the shortest attention span in history.

CHIEF

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2 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

Wow. Twelve hours between between the last post and the one before, while protest threads have several posts per minute. The IDF could invade Rafah, and no American would know it for 48 hours. The protests have completely derailed what is currently going on in Gaza. Americans have to have the shortest attention span in history.

CHIEF

What did you say?

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@MagicSoccerSpray

Not a lot of news out of Gaza right now. Here's a couple of quick stories on the obstacles of getting aid to people on the brink of starvation.

 

Quote

 

Jordan says Israeli settlers attacked Jordanian aid convoys on way to Gaza

DUBAI, May 1 (Reuters) - Jordan's foreign ministry said some Israeli settlers attacked two of its humanitarian aid convoys as they made their way toward the Gaza Strip on Wednesday.

Both convoys managed to continue on their journey and reach their destination in war-devastated Gaza, the ministry added in a statement. Such a route to the Gaza Strip would have taken them through the Israeli-occupied West Bank and Israel.

"Two Jordanian aid convoys carrying food, flour and other humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip were attacked by settlers," the ministry said, without giving details of what happened.

Honenu, an Israeli legal aid agency, said four men who had "blocked aid trucks going to Gaza" as they were passing near the West Bank settlement of Ma'ale Adumim were arrested by Israeli police.

The Jordanian government condemned the incident and said it held Israeli authorities fully responsible for ensuring the protection of aid convoys and international organisations.

Jordan has been air-dropping aid and sending convoys westward overland to Palestinians in Gaza throughout the war between Israel and Gaza's ruling Palestinian Islamist group Hamas that erupted on Oct. 7.

The U.S. has been pushing Israel to take steps to improve the flow of humanitarian aid to Gaza, where Israeli bombardments and invasion have left a wasteland with most of the 2.3 million population displaced and at risk of famine and disease.

One of Wednesday's Jordanian convoys, consisting of 31 trucks, was bound for the Erez crossing into north Gaza and the other, with 48 trucks, was headed for the Kerem Shalom crossing into southern Gaza, the Jordanian foreign ministry said.


 


 

Quote

 

Israel allows trucks from newly reopened Erez crossing into Gaza after U.S. pressure

EREZ CROSSING, Israel May 1 (Reuters) - Israel reopened the sole crossing on the northern edge of the Gaza Strip on Wednesday, allowing aid trucks to pass through the Erez checkpoint following U.S. demands to do more to address the growing humanitarian crisis.
Reopening the Erez crossing has been one of the main pleas of international aid agencies for months, to alleviate hunger which is believed to be most severe among the hundreds of thousands of civilians in the enclave's northern sector.

The Israeli government opened the crossing point on the day of a visit by U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken, who met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and called for more humanitarian aid deliveries into the territory.

The Erez crossing, primarily used for foot traffic, had remained closed since it was destroyed during the Hamas attacks on Oct. 7 that precipitated the war.
Communities on Gaza's northern edge were the first to be stormed by Israeli forces at the start of the war last year, and have been largely reduced to ruins. Aid agencies say they have faced difficulty reaching the area with food and medicine transported from other parts of Gaza across the war zone.

Israel announced it would reopen Erez last month, a few days after its forces killed a group of humanitarian workers delivering food aid in Gaza in air strikes that brought international condemnation. Israel apologised for those air strikes; Washington, its closest ally, said further support for the war would depend on improving aid access.

Colonel Moshe Tetro, head of Israel's Coordination and Liaison Administration for Gaza, said he hoped the crossing would be open every day, and help reach a target of 500 aid trucks entering Gaza daily. That would be in line with pre-war supplies entering the enclave and far more than it has received during the last seven months.

"This is only one step of the measures that we took in the last few weeks," he told reporters.

A convoy of Jordanian aid trucks heading for the Erez crossing was attacked by Israeli settlers, but managed to continue on, Jordan's foreign ministry said on Wednesday.

The U.S. special envoy for humanitarian issues warned last month the risk of famine throughout war-devastated Gaza was very high and called for more to be done to get aid into the northern part of the tiny, densely populated territory.

 

 

image.thumb.png.720a0c900495805e1c0ab838c4a14597.png

 

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I don't understand why some Western Democracies and wealthy Arab states can't get together and purchase land in the empty area on the Mediterranean in the Sanai Peninsula, south of Rafah. Offer to keep Egypt healthy stocks of wheat and other food items, the Ukranian War has really caused some instability in their food supply. 

Set up a port for humanitarian aid, free from Israeli controlled Gaza, and build a desalinization plant for drinking water and agricultural irrigation. If the British bought land for displaced Jews in 1948, surely it can be done again, if the pot is sweetened enough for Egypt.

CHIEF

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1 minute ago, CHIEF said:

I don't understand why some Western Democracies and wealthy Arab states can't get together and purchase land in the empty area on the Mediterranean in the Sanai Peninsula, south of Rafah. Offer to keep Egypt healthy stocks of wheat and other food items, the Ukranian War has really caused some instability in their food supply. 

Set up a port for humanitarian aid, free from Israeli controlled Gaza, and build a desalinization plant for drinking water and agricultural irrigation. If the British bought land for displaced Jews in 1948, surely it can be done again, if the pot is sweetened enough for Egypt.

CHIEF

The Arab states don't like Palestinians and don't want them in their backyard. They're just fine with Palestine being a perpetual irritant to Israel.

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9 minutes ago, rage-a-holic said:

The Arab states don't like Palestinians and don't want them in their backyard. They're just fine with Palestine being a perpetual irritant to Israel.

I know they don't like them. I just wonder if Egypt could be paid enough to tolerate them. You would still have Hezbollah as a perpetual irritant.

CHIEF

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On 4/29/2024 at 12:36 PM, CHIEF said:

 I think Israel offered feeling that Hamas is stupid enough to reject it. If they do reject it, Israel will try to gain sympathy and lessen criticism of their actions. If Hamas doesn't care about their civilians and any humanitarian aid, why should we.

CHIEF 

Well, sure enough, it sounds like Hamas' counteroffer is going to scuttle the US brokered plan:

CHIEF

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4 hours ago, CHIEF said:

I don't understand why some Western Democracies and wealthy Arab states can't get together and purchase land in the empty area on the Mediterranean in the Sanai Peninsula, south of Rafah. Offer to keep Egypt healthy stocks of wheat and other food items, the Ukranian War has really caused some instability in their food supply. 

Set up a port for humanitarian aid, free from Israeli controlled Gaza, and build a desalinization plant for drinking water and agricultural irrigation. If the British bought land for displaced Jews in 1948, surely it can be done again, if the pot is sweetened enough for Egypt.

CHIEF

No countries are going to allow Israel to solve their problem via ethnic cleansing and passing the bill to other countries, which is what that would be.  We bombed Serbia for trying something similar. 

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Israeli Officials Weigh Sharing Power With Arab States in Postwar Gaza
Though likely to displease both Israel’s right wing and many Arab states, it signals that Israel is thinking about the future, and could inform future talks.

For months, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel has avoided detailed public discussion about Gaza’s postwar future. Trying to placate both his far-right allies, who seek to rebuild Israeli settlements in Gaza, and Israel’s foreign partners, who want Gaza returned to Palestinian governance, Mr. Netanyahu has stopped short of any specific declaration.

Behind the scenes, however, senior officials in his office have been weighing an expansive plan for postwar Gaza, in which Israel would offer to share oversight of the territory with an alliance of Arab countries, including Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, as well as the United States, according to three Israeli officials and five people who have discussed the plan with members of the Israeli government.

According to that proposal, Israel would do so in exchange for normalized relations between itself and Saudi Arabia, according to the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity given the sensitivity of the matter.

Far-right members of Mr. Netanyahu’s coalition are almost certain to dismiss such an idea, and so are the Arab countries mentioned as possible participants. But it is the clearest sign yet that officials at the highest levels of Israel’s government are thinking about Gaza’s postwar future, despite saying little in public, and could be a starting point in future negotiations.

The disclosure comes against the backdrop of intense international efforts to get Israel and Hamas to agree to a cease-fire that could eventually become a permanent truce, and it follows growing pressure on Israel to plan for what comes next. Israel’s reluctance to determine how to govern Gaza has created a power vacuum in much of the territory, leading to lawlessness and worsening the dire humanitarian situation.

Arab officials and analysts have called the power-sharing plan unworkable because it does not create an explicit path toward a Palestinian state, which the Emirati and Saudi governments have said is a prerequisite for their involvement in postwar planning. But others have cautiously welcomed the proposal because it at least suggests greater flexibility among Israeli leaders than their public statements suggest.

cont'd:

Spoiler

Under the proposal, the Arab-Israeli alliance, working with the United States, would appoint Gazan leaders to redevelop the devastated territory, overhaul its education system and maintain order. After between seven and 10 years, the alliance would allow Gazans to vote on whether to be absorbed into a united Palestinian administration that would govern in both Gaza and the Israeli-occupied West Bank, according to the proposal. In the meantime, the plan suggests, the Israeli military could continue to operate inside Gaza.

The proposal does not explicitly say whether that united administration would constitute a sovereign Palestinian state, or if it would include the Palestinian Authority, which administers parts of the West Bank. Publicly, Prime Minister Netanyahu has rejected the idea of full Palestinian sovereignty and all but ruled out the involvement of the Palestinian Authority.

The Israeli prime minister’s office declined to comment.

The proposal lacks detail and has not been formally adopted by the Israeli government, which publicly has presented only a vaguer vision under which Israel would retain greater control over postwar Gaza.

Emirati and Saudi officials and analysts said the new proposal would not secure the involvement of Arab states like Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E., particularly because it stopped short of guaranteeing Palestinian sovereignty and would permit continued Israeli military operations inside Gaza. The Saudi government has said it will not normalize ties with Israel unless Israeli leaders take irrevocable steps toward creating a Palestinian state.

“The details need to be more explicitly laid out in a manner that is ‘irreversible,’” said Ali Shihabi, a Saudi commentator considered close to the Saudi royal court. “The problem is the Israelis have a habit of hiding behind ambiguous terms, so I think the Saudi government would be looking for such clarity.”

Still, the proposal is the most detailed plan for postwar Gaza that Israeli officials are known to have discussed, and parts of it align with ideas articulated by Arab leaders both in public and in private.

Thomas R. Nides, a former U.S. ambassador to Israel who has been consulted on the plan, said the proposal was significant because it revealed internal Israeli thinking.

“It shows that despite the Israeli government’s public posture, behind the scenes Israeli officials are thinking seriously about what a postwar Gaza would look like,” Mr. Nides said. “Obviously the devil is in the details, which may not be enough to coax Arab partners like the U.A.E. to engage in the plan. And nothing can happen until the hostages are released and a cease-fire starts.”

The disclosure of the plan comes amid renewed efforts to seal a truce between Israel and Hamas.

A group of businessmen, most of them Israeli, some of whom are close to Mr. Netanyahu, drew up the plan in November. It was first formally proposed to Israeli officials in Mr. Netanyahu’s office in December, according to one of the government officials.

Two of the officials said that the plan was still under consideration at the highest levels of Israel’s government, though it cannot be put in place until after Hamas is defeated and the remaining hostages in Gaza are released.

Hamas remains in full control of parts of southern Gaza, despite a devastating Israeli military campaign that has killed more than 34,000 people, according to officials there; brought parts of the territory to the brink of famine; and left much of Gaza in ruins.

The businessmen, who asked not to be named in order not to jeopardize their ability to promote the idea, said that they had briefed officials from several Arab and Western governments, including the United States, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the U.A.E., on the plan.

It has also been shown to Tony Blair, the former British prime minister who runs an institute advising the Saudi government on modernization projects. A Palestinian businessman, who asked not to be named in order to protect his relatives from retribution in Gaza, also has been involved in promoting the idea to American officials.

Asked about the plan, the U.A.E. foreign ministry said in a statement that the Emirati government “will not participate in any reconstruction effort in Gaza until there exists an agreement on a road map for a political solution to the conflict, which includes a transparent, timely and binding path for all parties and that leads to the establishment of the two-state solution, with an independent Palestinian state.”

A Saudi official, speaking on condition of anonymity to conform with government protocol, dismissed the proposal because it did not create a “credible and irreversible pathway” toward Palestinian statehood or ensure the Palestinian Authority’s involvement. The official also denied that the Saudi authorities had previously been made aware of the plan.

A spokesman for the Egyptian government declined to comment.

The aim of the businessmen is to win international support for the idea in order to persuade Mr. Netanyahu that it would be worth his embarking on the difficult task of winning domestic backing for it.

Mr. Netanyahu’s coalition government could collapse if he formally backed a plan that did not conclusively rule out the creation of a Palestinian state. Far-right members of his coalition strongly oppose Palestinian sovereignty and want to re-establish Israeli settlements in Gaza. They have threatened to bring down the government if Mr. Netanyahu ends the war in Gaza without ousting Hamas.

Polling shows that a majority of Israelis also oppose the creation of Palestinian state, which many say would reward Hamas for leading terrorist attacks that killed some 1,200 people on Oct. 7, during the cross-border raid on Israel that started the war.

Wary of both collapsing his government and losing support in a subsequent election campaign, Mr. Netanyahu has repeatedly voiced his opposition to a Palestinian state in recent months, pledging to retain Israeli control over the West Bank and Gaza.

But analysts and some of his allies believe that he would be prepared to leave open the notional possibility of Palestinian sovereignty if it allowed him to seal a landmark normalization deal with Saudi Arabia.

Forging diplomatic ties with the most influential Arab state would allow Mr. Netanyahu to restore some of his political legacy, which has been tarnished because the Hamas-led raid on Israel, the deadliest single attack in Israeli history, occurred under his watch.

“He wants this legacy,” said Nadav Shtrauchler, an Israeli political analyst and former strategist for the prime minister.

“On the other hand, one, he doesn’t believe in the two-state solution. Two, he cannot pitch it to his crowd,” Mr. Shtrauchler added.

 

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UN Human Rights Chief deplores harrowing killings of children and women in Rafah

GENEVA (23 April 2024) – UN Human Rights Chief Volker Türk today decried a series of Israeli strikes on Rafah in the past few days that killed mostly children and women, repeating his warning against a full-scale incursion on an area where 1.2 million civilians have been forcibly cornered.

Such an operation would lead to further breaches of international humanitarian law and international human rights law, he said. It would risk more deaths, injuries and displacement on a large scale – even further atrocity crimes, for which those responsible would be held accountable. Already in March, the Security Council had demanded an immediate ceasefire.

“The world’s leaders stand united on the imperative of protecting the civilian population trapped in Rafah,” the High Commissioner said.

“The latest images of a premature child taken from the womb of her dying mother, of the adjacent two houses where 15 children and five women were killed - this is beyond warfare.”

On 19 April, an apartment building was hit in Tal Al Sultan area in Rafah, killing nine Palestinians, including six children and two women. Another strike on two adjacent houses in At Tanour area in eastern Rafah on 20 April reportedly killed 20 Palestinians – 15 children and five women. A strike on As Shabora Camp in Rafah on the same day reportedly left four dead, including a girl and a pregnant woman.

As of 22 April, according to the authorities in Gaza, of the 34,151 Palestinians killed in Gaza, 14,685 have been children and 9,670 women. Another 77,084 have been injured, and over 7,000 others are assumed to be under the rubble.

“Every 10 minutes a child is killed or wounded. They are protected under the laws of war, and yet they are ones who are disproportionately paying the ultimate price in this war,” said Türk. 

Türk said he was horrified by the destruction of An Nasser Medical Complex and Al Shifa Medical Complex and the reported discovery of mass graves in and around these locations. He called for independent, effective and transparent investigations into the deaths.

“Given the prevailing climate of impunity, this should include international investigators,” he added. “Hospitals are entitled to very special protection under international humanitarian law. And the intentional killing of civilians, detainees, and others who are hors de combat is a war crime.”

The High Commissioner said the unspeakable suffering caused by the fighting - alongside the resulting misery and destruction, starvation and disease, and the risk of wider conflict - must end once and for all. He reiterated his call for an immediate ceasefire, the release of hostages and those held in arbitrary detention, and the unfettered flow of humanitarian aid.

At the same time, Türk said grave human rights violations were continuing unabated in the occupied West Bank. Despite international condemnation of massive settler attacks from 12-14 April facilitated by the Israeli Security Forces (ISF), settler violence has continued with the support, protection, and participation of the ISF.

During a 50-hour long operation into Nur Shams refugee camp and Tulkarem city starting on 18 April, the ISF deployed ground troops, bulldozers and drones, and sealed the camp. Fourteen Palestinians were killed, three of them children. Ten members of the ISF were hurt.

The UN Human Rights Office received reports that several Palestinians were unlawfully killed and that the ISF used unarmed Palestinians to shield their forces from attack and killed others in apparent extrajudicial executions. Dozens were reportedly detained and ill-treated. The ISF inflicted unprecedented and apparently wanton destruction on the camp and its infrastructure.

On 20 April, the ISF or settlers shot and killed a 50-year-old Palestinian ambulance driver. The ambulance was evacuating two Palestinians injured by live ammunition during an attack by settlers, who were accompanied by the ISF, in As Sawiya, Nablus.

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4 minutes ago, bolverk said:

GENEVA (23 April 2024) – UN Human Rights Chief Volker Türk today decried a series of Israeli strikes on Rafah in the past few days that killed mostly children and women, repeating his warning against a full-scale incursion on an area where 1.2 million civilians have been forcibly cornered.

Yeah, but you see, some people that I don't like tried to set up a tent on the South Mall. 

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Posted (edited)

Here is a breakdown by Mosab Yousef, the son of one of the founding members of Hamas, on the Hamas mindset. He is anti-Hamas, but understands their goals.

The conflict isn't about politics but religion.

CHIEF

Edited by CHIEF
Religion
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TL;DR:

  • 2nd US official, Cindy McCain, says there's a famine in northern Gaza and says it's spreading south. She calls it a "horror".
  • Hamas and Israel are still in negotiations. The latest Israeli offer was well received. Even if Hamas accepts the terms, it will take time to hash out the details. Israel, right now, is a no-show in Cairo, where negotiations have been held. 
  • Netanyahu is still determined to invade Rafah, where over a million Palestinians are stuck -- a plan heavily criticized by the international community.
  • Children are now dying of malnutrition. Israel isn't providing the necessary security to aid agencies and has only recently opened one border crossing after receiving much criticism. Bottlenecks still persist due to onerous inspections that some interpret as deliberate to delay aid.
  • The head of UN human rights says this may constitute war crimes since using starvation as a weapon is a serious violation of international law.
  • There are expectations that the International Criminal Court is preparing to issue arrest warrants against senior Israeli officials — including potentially over accusations that they prevented the delivery of aid to civilians in Gaza.
  • Recently, there have been some increases in aid delivery, but it remains inadequate.

 

Parts of Gaza in ‘Full-Blown Famine,’ U.N. Aid Official Says
Cindy McCain, the director of the World Food Program, said starvation is entrenched in northern Gaza and is “moving its way south.”

The leader of the World Food Program said that parts of the Gaza Strip are experiencing a “full-blown famine” that is spreading across the territory after almost seven months of war that have made delivering aid extremely challenging.

“There is famine — full-blown famine in the north, and it’s moving its way south,” Cindy McCain, the program’s director, said in excerpts released late Friday of an interview with “Meet The Press.”

Ms. McCain is the second high-profile American leading a U.S. government or U.N. aid effort who has said that there is famine in northern Gaza, although her remarks do not constitute an official declaration, which is a complex bureaucratic process.

She did not explain why an official famine declaration has not been made. But she said her assessment was “based on what we have seen and what we have experienced on the ground.”

The hunger crisis is most severe in the strip’s northern section, a largely lawless and gang ridden area where the Israeli military exercises little or no control. In recent weeks, after Israel faced mounting global pressure to improve dire conditions there, more aid has flowed into the devastated area.

On the diplomatic front, negotiations resumed in Cairo on Saturday aimed at reaching a cease-fire and an agreement to release Israeli and Palestinian hostages. A delegation of Hamas leaders traveled to the Egyptian capital, the Palestinian armed group said.

Over the past few days, Israel and mediators in the talks — Egypt, Qatar and the United States — have awaited Hamas’s response to the latest cease-fire proposal, with Hamas signaling that it was open to discussing the Israeli-approved offer. On Friday, Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken said U.S. officials were waiting to see if Hamas “can take ‘yes’ for an answer on the cease-fire and the release of hostages.”

“The only thing standing between the people of Gaza and a cease-fire is Hamas,” Mr. Blinken said at the McCain Institute in Arizona. “So we look to see what they will do.”

Husam Badran, a senior Hamas official, said in a text message that the group’s representatives came to Cairo “with great positivity” toward the proposed deal. “If there is no agreement, it will be because of Netanyahu alone,” he said, referring to Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister.

For weeks, Mr. Netanyahu has vowed that Israeli forces will invade Rafah, where many of Hamas’s remaining military forces are believed to be arrayed alongside some of its leaders. The plan has prompted widespread criticism, including from the Biden administration, fueled by concern for the safety of more than a million displaced Gazans sheltering there.

Quote

 

As of Saturday, Israel had not dispatched a delegation to Cairo to engage in indirect negotiations with the Hamas officials, as Israeli officials had done in previous rounds of talks, according to two Israeli officials who, following diplomatic protocol, spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Even if Hamas announced in Cairo that it had accepted the proposed deal, a truce was unlikely to be imminent, one of the Israeli officials said. Hamas’s approval would be followed by intensive negotiations to hash out the finer details of a cease-fire, and such talks are likely to be protracted and difficult, the official added.

Ms. McCain said a cease-fire could help ease conditions in Gaza.

“It is horror,” she said on “Meet the Press.” “It is so hard to look at, and it is so hard to hear, also. I am so hoping we can get a cease-fire and begin to feed these people, especially in the north, in a much faster fashion.”

The first American official to say there was famine in Gaza during the conflict was Samantha Power, the director of the U.S. Agency for International Development, who made her remarks in congressional testimony last month.

Ms. McCain, the widow of Senator John McCain, was appointed by President Biden as the American ambassador to the U.N. Agencies for Food and Agriculture in 2021 and became head of the World Food Program, a U.N. agency, last year.

An official declaration of famine is made by a United Nations agency, the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification, and the government of the country where the famine is taking place. It is unclear what local authority might have the power to do that in Gaza. Declarations, which are based on measured rates of hunger, malnutrition and death over short periods, are rare. But for aid groups, a famine elevates one crisis above competing disasters and helps them raise money to respond.

Gaza has been gripped by what experts have called a severe human-made hunger crisis. Israel’s bombardment and restrictions in the territory have made delivering aid very difficult. The amount of aid entering Gaza has increased recently, but aid groups say it is far from adequate.

For the first three weeks of the war, Israel maintained what it called a “complete siege” of Gaza, with Defense Minister Yoav Gallant saying that “no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel” would be allowed into the territory. The Israeli military also destroyed Gaza’s port, restricted fishing and bombed many of its farms.

Israel eventually loosened the siege but instituted a meticulous inspection process that it says is necessary to ensure that weapons and other supplies do not fall into the hands of Hamas. Aid groups and foreign diplomats have said the inspections create bottlenecks, and have accused Israel of arbitrarily turning away aid, including water filters, solar lights and medical kits that contain scissors, for spurious reasons.

Volker Türk, the U.N. human rights chief, said in a statement last month that Israel’s policies regarding aid in Gaza could amount to a war crime.

Using starvation of civilians as a weapon is a serious violation of international humanitarian law and a war crime under the Rome Statute, the treaty of the International Criminal Court, or I.C.C.

Israeli and foreign officials told The New York Times last week that they were worried that the I.C.C. was preparing to issue arrest warrants against senior Israeli officials — including potentially over accusations that they prevented the delivery of aid to civilians in Gaza. (They also said they believed that the court was considering arrest warrants for Hamas leaders, which could be issued concurrently.)

Israel has previously vehemently denied placing limits on aid, accusing the United Nations of failing to distribute aid adequately and Hamas of looting supplies. U.S. and U.N. officials have said there is no evidence of that, other than one shipment that Hamas seized earlier this week, which is now being recovered.

However the issue is resolved, there is little doubt that conditions are still life threatening for many Gazans, particularly children suffering from illnesses that make them especially vulnerable. As of April 17, at least 28 children younger than 12 had died of malnutrition or related causes in Gaza hospitals, according to the local health authorities, including a dozen babies under a month old. Officials believe that many more deaths outside hospitals have gone unrecorded.

There have been some improvements to aid flows in recent weeks, and on Wednesday Israel reopened the Erez border crossing, allowing some aid to cross directly into northern Gaza.

Fatma Edaama, a 36-year-old resident of Jabaliya, in northern Gaza, said conditions in her neighborhood were still difficult. Many commodities, such as meat, are unavailable or sold at sky-high prices, she said.

But flour, canned goods and other items had started to flow far more freely and their cost had dropped sharply, Ms. Edaama said. “Earlier there was nothing, people would grind up animal feed,” she said. “Now, we have food.”

Still, foreign officials and aid agencies say more is needed.

“This is real and important progress, but more still needs to be done,” Mr. Blinken told reporters this week after visiting an aid warehouse in Jordan.

 

 

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well fuck. Finally start getting crossing open and now this.

CAIRO, May 5 (Reuters) - The armed wing of Palestinian Islamist group Hamas claimed responsibility on Sunday for an attack on the Kerem Shalom crossing between Israel and Gaza, which Israeli and Palestinian media reports said had resulted in Israeli casualties.
Israel's military said 10 projectiles were launched from Rafah in southern Gaza towards the area of the crossing, which it said was now closed to aid trucks going into the coastal enclave. Other crossings remain open.
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It sounds like extremists on both sides are determined to prolong this war. Meanwhile, more people will suffer.

Israeli statements raise concerns about Netanyahu’s commitment to a deal.

A group representing families of the Israeli hostages in Gaza expressed concerns Sunday that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, under pressure from hard-line members of his governing coalition, was trying to stall or even sabotage a possible deal that could lead to a cease-fire and the release of captives held by Hamas.

A major sticking point in negotiations has been Hamas’s consistent demand for a commitment by Israel to end its seven-month military offensive in Gaza and to forgo a planned invasion of Rafah, Hamas’s last bastion in the south of the enclave, and Israel’s reluctance to declare such concessions, according to officials.

In the discussions in Cairo, which have been mediated by the United States, Qatar and Egypt, negotiators had been trying to leave some room for ambiguity in the early stages of a three-phased deal that could satisfy both sides.

But on Saturday the Israeli government issued two statements to reporters, to be attributed to an unnamed “political official,” saying that contrary to reports, Israel would not agree to end the war as part of a deal. It added that it would not allow mediators to offer Hamas guarantees about the war’s end, while blaming Hamas for scuttling any possibility of a deal by sticking to its demands.

Several of the Israeli reporters who received the statements said they had come directly from the prime minister’s office in an unusual breach of the government’s confidentiality rules.

Nahum Barnea, a prominent political columnist, said Sunday in Yediot Ahronot, a popular Hebrew daily news outlet, that he felt that the statements were “designed to scuttle the chances of a deal.”

The Hostages Families Forum, an Israeli nongovernmental group lobbying for the release of the hostages and supporting their families, said in a statement on Sunday that it was “shocked” to hear about the statements. The group called on Mr. Netanyahu to “disregard all political pressure,” “to lead” and to “show courage.”

Mr. Barnea said he believed that Mr. Netanyahu would be freed “of the need to decide” on a deal if Hamas, the mediators and the far-right members of his government could be persuaded that there was not one on the table.

Mr. Netanyahu on Sunday vehemently rejected the accusations, saying in a longer statement, in his own name, that Hamas was the party obstructing a deal. “Israel was, and still is, ready to pause the fighting in order to release our hostages,” he said.

Though details of a potential deal are still being hashed out, Egypt has been pushing a proposal, with the broad approval of Israeli negotiators, that would begin with a six-week truce, during which 33 of the most vulnerable hostages held in Gaza would be released in exchange for hundreds of Palestinians imprisoned by Israel.

Israel would allow the return of hundreds of thousands of displaced Palestinian civilians to northern Gaza with few restrictions, officials have said, previously a major sticking point for Israel.

Husam Badran, a senior Hamas official, said on Saturday that the group’s representatives had arrived in Cairo “with great positivity” regarding the latest proposal. But Hamas officials told Arabic news outlets that issues including a permanent cease-fire and full withdrawal of Israeli troops from Gaza remained unresolved. By early Sunday there was still no indication that Hamas had accepted the deal.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Leadership on both sides can eat a bag of dicks.

1000s of Hamas for 33 of the “how many” hostages? I think the only way I would do a deal like that is for all the hostages. Otherwise, with the proposed deal you have to pretty much give up on the rest of the hostages.

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6 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Leadership on both sides can eat a bag of dicks.

Your Reuters article mentions this in passing. More details:

Netanyahu calls Al Jazeera an ‘incitement channel’ as it is shut down in Israel.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel said on Sunday that his cabinet had voted to shut down the Israeli operations of Al Jazeera, a Qatar-based network that is a major source of news in the Arab world and has often highlighted civilian suffering in Gaza during Israel’s war with Hamas.

“The government under my leadership has decided unanimously: The incitement channel Al Jazeera will be shut down in Israel,” Mr. Netanyahu said on X, formerly Twitter. It was not immediately clear whether the closing would be temporary or whether it would affect the network’s reporting in Gaza and the West Bank.

Journalism organizations have said that such a closure, which had been under discussion in Israel for weeks, would be a blow to press freedom.

Israel’s communications minister, Shlomo Karhi, said in a video statement that Al Jazeera “will no longer broadcast here in Israel, and its equipment will be confiscated.”

In a statement in Arabic, Al Jazeera condemned Israel’s move, which it called a “criminal act.” “Israeli’s suppression of the free press to cover up its crimes has not deterred us from performing our duty,” the network said.

The decision could complicate Israel’s relationship with Qatar, which helps fund the network and has also been helping to mediate cease-fire negotiations between Israel and Hamas. The Qatari government did not immediately comment.

Mr. Netanyahu said in a statement that Al Jazeera’s reporters had “harmed Israel’s security” and incited violence against its soldiers. He had previously called Al Jazeera a “Hamas mouthpiece.” Israeli lawmakers passed a bill last month allowing the government to temporarily close foreign media outlets that Mr. Netanyahu determined were undermining national security.

The order to close Al Jazeera’s local operations will initially apply for 45 days, and a district court judge must approve it within 24 hours before it is carried out, according to Avraham Hasson, an aide to Israel’s minister of communications. Mr. Hasson said the judge could rule to change the length of the closure. The government has the option of extending it for another 45 days, but any extension would also need a judge’s approval.

Mr. Netanyahu’s government has had a tense relationship for years with Al Jazeera, which has reported extensively from Gaza during the war between Israel and Hamas that began in October.

The war in Gaza has taken a toll on the network’s own employees and their families. In October, Wael al-Dahdouh, the Gaza bureau chief of Al Jazeera’s Arabic-language service, was told live on air that his wife, son, daughter and infant grandson had been killed in central Gaza, where they had been sheltering. In January, his eldest son was killed in an Israeli airstrike, according to the authorities in Gaza.

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2 minutes ago, Bevo said:

1000s of Hamas for 33 of the “how many” hostages? I think the only way I would do a deal like that is for all the hostages. Otherwise, with the proposed deal you have to pretty much give up on the rest of the hostages.

Yeah, you get 33? The rest won't be coming home.

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1 minute ago, Bevo said:

1000s of Hamas for 33 of the “how many” hostages? I think the only way I would do a deal like that is for all the hostages. Otherwise, with the proposed deal you have to pretty much give up on the rest of the hostages.

Are they only asking for Hamas prisoners? Thousands of Palestinians who have nothing to do with Hamas have been rounded up by the IDF, and multiple stories of the systematic abuse of those prisoners have been published and posted here on Surly.

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15 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Inb4 Rafah gets carpet bombed and invaded anyways

Netanyahu has already said it wouldn't matter if they were going to sign onto the deal and said they were going to invade anyway. Palestinian civilians are going to get fucked.

Hamas said in a statement its top leader, Ismail Haniyeh, had delivered the news in a phone call with Qatar’s prime minister and Egypt’s intelligence minister. After the release of the statement, Palestinians erupted in cheers in the sprawling tent camps around Rafah, hoping the deal meant an Israeli attack had been averted.

*****

In a fiery speech Sunday evening marking Israel’s Holocaust memorial day, Netanyahu rejected international pressure to halt the war, saying that “if Israel is forced to stand alone, Israel will stand alone.”

On Monday, Netanyahu accused Hamas of “torpedoing” a deal by not budging from its demand for an end to the war and a complete Israeli troop withdrawal in return for the hostages’ release, which he called “extreme.”

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-war-humanitarian-aid-8659eae6e0a7362504f0aa4aa4be53e0

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