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Posted

As Israel is actively starving what Palestinians remain, maybe muddying the waters doesn’t do the weakest in that hellhole any good. What I mean by muddying the waters is choosing to talk about Iran, a subject upon which many more agree with you, than the ongoing genocide occurring right now. Condemn the murder of the innocents. Yes, those innocents on both sides.

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Posted (edited)

It whips ass that the dude that repeatedly projects his own weird sexual fantasies with terrorists onto people that disagree with him thinks he's actually the well adjusted one lmao

Edited by Brian Fantana
Posted
1 hour ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

blameless. I've just never pretended that there is equivalency between the two parties


Well, you got that right. One group is religious fanatics backed by a nation state and the other is a bunch of old people, mothers and children trying to get food

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Posted
6 hours ago, Sawbonz said:


Well, you got that right. One group is religious fanatics backed by a nation state and the other is a bunch of old people, mothers and children trying to get food

 

See guise, according to Dr. Sawbonz there's no terrorists, or hostages, or Hamas, or young men in Gaza.  Just a bunch of old people, mothers and children trying to get food. Dr. Sawbonz has done his research, and has this problem licked!

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Posted
34 minutes ago, MagicSoccerSpray said:

 

See guise, according to Dr. Sawbonz there's no terrorists, or hostages, or Hamas, or young men in Gaza.  Just a bunch of old people, mothers and children trying to get food. Dr. Sawbonz has done his research, and has this problem licked!

You are one stupid motherfucker 

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Posted
9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Because there are young men in gaza it's fine for Israel to starve a million people to death?

What the fuck? 

Yes.  That's his position.  There still exist 1) a number of combatants/potential combatants greater than 0 in Gaza, and 2) Hamas is still holding hostages.

Therefore....whatever Israel does to CIVILIANS in Gaza is 100% justified.  Sure, he SAYS "Israel isn't infallible, or even blameless," yet......the IDF slaughtering 100 people waiting for food aid?  That's ok.  Israel waging what literally every objective observer say is a purposeful famine?  That's ok.  Israel government officials openly stating that they intend to cleanse Gaza of all Palestinians (not just combatants)?  That's ok.  Israel banning people in Gaza from....even touching seawater?  That's ok.

I guess he wants to hold Israel accountable for...I dunno...wasting ammo?  Why shoot civilians indiscriminately when you can just round them up, arrest them, and then dispatch them with a well-placed single shot to the back of the head?  Israeli fiscal irresponsibility REALLY pisses him off.

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Posted

Even the doctors and nurses treating starving people are suffering from hunger.

"Yesterday, some staff members ate just 10 spoons of plain white rice."

Gazans Are Dying of Starvation
Severe hunger has gripped the war-torn Palestinian enclave, where growing numbers of people are starving and the doctors treating them are working on empty stomachs.

Atef Abu Khater, 17, who was healthy before Gaza was gripped by war, lies in intensive care in a hospital in the north of the Palestinian enclave, suffering from severe malnutrition.

“He is not responding to the treatment,” said his father, A’eed Abu Khater, 48, who has been sheltering in a tent in Gaza City with his wife and five children. “I feel helpless,” he added in a phone call, his voice strained with grief. “We lost our income in the war. Food is unaffordable. There is nothing.”

Gaza’s hospitals have struggled since early in the war to cope with the influx of Palestinians injured and maimed by Israeli airstrikes and, more recently, by shootings meant to disperse desperate crowds as they surge toward food convoys or head to aid distribution sites.

Now, according to doctors in the territory, an increasing number of their patients are suffering — and dying — from starvation.

“There is no one in Gaza now outside the scope of famine, not even myself,” said Dr. Ahmed al-Farra, who leads the pediatric ward at Nasser Hospital in southern Gaza. “I am speaking to you as a health official, but I, too, am searching for flour to feed my family.”

The World Food Program, an arm of the United Nations, said this week that the hunger crisis in Gaza had reached “new and astonishing levels of desperation, with a third of the population not eating for multiple days in a row.”

Dr. al-Farra said the number of children dying of malnutrition had risen sharply in recent days. He described harrowing scenes of people too exhausted to walk. Many of the children he sees have no pre-existing medical conditions, he said, giving the example of Siwar Barbaq, who was born healthy and now, at 11 months old, should weigh about 20 pounds but is under nine pounds.

After 21 months of devastating conflict set off by the deadly Hamas-led attack on Israel on Oct. 7, 2023, the lack of available food and water is taking a heavy toll on Gaza’s most vulnerable civilians — the young, the old and the sick.

The Gaza ministry of health has reported more than 40 hunger-related deaths this month, including 16 children, and 111 since the beginning of the war, 81 of them children. The data could not be independently verified.

Throughout the war, U.N. agencies and independent aid groups have accused Israel of allowing far too little food into Gaza, warning of impending famine for its more than two million people. For much of that time, Israel has said that enough food was reaching Gaza, blaming diversions by Hamas and mismanagement by aid groups for problems.

Yahia al-Najjar was 4 months old when he died of severe malnutrition on Tuesday at the American Hospital in Khan Younis, in southern Gaza, his aunt, Safa al-Najjar, 38, said in an interview.

Yahia was born without serious health issues, but his condition soon deteriorated, she said.

The family has been sheltering under a tent made of a blanket held up by four poles. Yahia’s mother, subsisting on one meal of lentils or rice per day, could not produce enough milk to nurse him, though she had no problems nursing her previous three children. The family could not afford baby formula.

At the hospital, the doctors tried to help, but he was already in critical condition and had lost weight. He died shortly after, she said.

After Israel ended a two-month cease-fire in mid-March and resumed its military campaign in Gaza, it imposed a total blockade on the entry of goods for about 80 days to try to pressure Hamas into surrendering, exacerbating the already severe deprivation.

Now, aid enters in two ways. One is a new, much-criticized system run by private American contractors under the auspices of the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, a private Israeli-backed group, which has a few set distribution sites in southern Gaza and one in the center of the strip. The other consists of convoys of aid brought in by independent international organizations.

Both systems have been plagued by worsening chaos and violence after months of siege, war, mass displacement and lawlessness. Most of the Israeli shootings, according to the United Nations, have occurred around the Israel-backed distribution sites.

The hunger crisis is the result of human failings, with each of the involved parties blaming someone else for the suffering.

Israel accuses Hamas of engineering a narrative of starvation by looting aid trucks and disrupting the distribution of aid to Gazans. It also accuses the United Nations and other humanitarian organizations of failing to collect hundreds of truckloads of aid that have piled up on the Gaza side of the border crossings.

Aid groups blame Israel for laying siege to Gaza, restricting supplies and failing to provide safe routes for their convoys inside Gaza. The only solution, they have long said, is an extensive increase in food deliveries.

Israel countered the images of starving children this week with images of pallets of supplies lying uncollected on the Gaza side of a border crossing and footage of what the military described as Hamas terrorists enjoying platters of food and fresh fruit in the group’s underground tunnels. The military declined to say when the video was recorded.

The leaders of Israel and Hamas are engaged in sluggish negotiations, through mediators, for another temporary cease-fire that could bring relief and have Hamas release hostages it is holding in the tunnels in exchange for Palestinian prisoners in Israeli custody.

Doctors warn that malnutrition in early childhood can have long-term effects, disrupting growth, cognitive ability and emotional development.

Mohammad Saqr, head of the nursing department at Nasser Medical Complex, said that on Monday afternoon alone, the hospital received 25 women and 10 children requesting intravenous glucose solution.

While the treatment may briefly relieve symptoms, Mr. Saqr warned, “they feel the hunger again soon after.” He added, “Some arrive shivering from hunger.”

The hospital’s limited supply of IV solution cannot meet the growing demand, he said, adding: “The team is exhausted from hunger. Yesterday, some staff members ate just 10 spoons of plain white rice.”

Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City had recorded three deaths from malnutrition in the previous 36 hours, Dr. Mohammad Abu Salmiya, the hospital director, said in an interview on Tuesday. One was a 5-month-old baby.

People gather around water distribution tanks in front of damaged buildings.
Collecting water in Gaza City last week.
 

Two children, one standing and one crouching, next to pots of food.
Children outside a charity kitchen in Gaza City on Wednesday.

A man in a tan t-shirt holds a bundle of blankets.
A man carried the body of an infant who died of starvation, according to health officials, at Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City on Tuesday.

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Posted
 

Nice try. They were nursing and pregnant with little terrorist babies. The lying Hamas-owned press just wants you to THINK that infants are innocent. Why are you so anti-Semitic?
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Posted

Major media say their journalists in Gaza are ‘increasingly unable to feed themselves’

Four leading news organizations said Thursday that their journalists in Gaza are facing the threat of starvation as the Israel-Hamas war grinds on, while top U.S. envoy Steve Witkoff was to meet with key negotiators from the Middle East for talks on the latest ceasefire proposal and the release of hostages.

The media outlets’ joint statement called on Israel to allow journalists in and out of Gaza and allow adequate food supplies into the territory.

“For many months, these independent journalists have been the world’s eyes and ears on the ground in Gaza. They are now facing the same dire circumstances as those they are covering,” said the joint statement by The Associated Press, Agence France-Presse, Reuters and the BBC.

The statement came a day after more than 100 charity and human rights groups said Israel’s blockade and ongoing military offensive are pushing Palestinians in the Gaza Strip toward starvation.

“We are desperately concerned for our journalists in Gaza, who are increasingly unable to feed themselves and their families,” said a joint statement by The Associated Press, Agence France-Presse, Reuters and the BBC. “For many months, these independent journalists have been the world’s eyes and ears on the ground in Gaza. They are now facing the same dire circumstances as those they are covering.”

The statement called on Israel to allow journalists in and out of Gaza and allow adequate food supplies into the territory.

Israel has barred international media from entering Gaza independently throughout the 21-month war.

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Posted

"From the river to the sea."

image.png.688f0b75d3c835bf4b09b1c9231ae6b4.png
https://www.timesofisrael.com/knesset-votes-71-13-for-non-binding-motion-calling-to-annex-west-bank/

The Knesset approved a non-binding motion in favor of annexing the West Bank on Wednesday, a symbolic gesture that united the otherwise fractious right-wing governing coalition.

The resolution, which passed 71-13, declared that the West Bank is “an inseparable part of the Land of Israel, the historical, cultural and spiritual homeland of the Jewish people” and that “Israel has the natural, historical and legal right to all of the territories of the Land of Israel.”

It called on the government to “apply Israeli sovereignty, law, judgment and administration to all the areas of Jewish settlement of all kinds in Judea, Samaria and the Jordan Valley,” the government’s term for the West Bank. The motion was advanced by Religious Zionism MK Simcha Rothman, Likud MK Dan Illouz and opposition Yisrael Beytenu MK Oded Forer.

Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan in the 1967 Six Day War, and the territory is now estimated to be home to more than 500,000 Israeli settlers, in addition to millions of Palestinians. Much of the international community says Israel is illegally occupying the territory and views the settlements as violations of international law, which Israel disputes.

“This is our land. This is our home. The Land of Israel belongs to the people of Israel,” Knesset Speaker Amir Ohana said after the vote. “In 1967, the occupation did not begin; it ended, and our homeland was returned to its rightful owners. We are the original first natives of this piece of land. Jews cannot be the ‘occupier’ of a land that for 3,000 years has been called Judea.”

Annexation of the West Bank, or of its Israeli settlements, is a longtime aspiration of the Israeli right. In 2019, ahead of an election, Netanyahu pledged to annex the Jordan Valley, on the territory’s eastern flank. But that pledge and similar efforts took a backseat amid a protracted political crisis that saw a string of inconclusive elections. The government has not pursued binding annexation legislation since, though it voted in similar numbers last year against the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Wednesday’s vote came days before lawmakers will break for a nearly three-month recess, and as the coalition fights for its political life. On the same day, Likud MKs voted to unseat their colleague Yuli Edelstein as chair of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, replacing him with Boaz Bismuth, a loyalist of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who is expected to advance a law regulating ultra-Orthodox enlistment.

The ultra-Orthodox parties, which left the coalition due to disputes over the enlistment law, nevertheless joined Likud and other right-wing parties in voting for the annexation resolution. The opposition Yisrael Beiteinu also voted in favor.

The Knesset approved a non-binding motion in favor of annexing the West Bank on Wednesday, a symbolic gesture that united the otherwise fractious right-wing governing coalition.

The resolution, which passed 71-13, declared that the West Bank is “an inseparable part of the Land of Israel, the historical, cultural and spiritual homeland of the Jewish people” and that “Israel has the natural, historical and legal right to all of the territories of the Land of Israel.”

It called on the government to “apply Israeli sovereignty, law, judgment and administration to all the areas of Jewish settlement of all kinds in Judea, Samaria and the Jordan Valley,” the government’s term for the West Bank. The motion was advanced by Religious Zionism MK Simcha Rothman, Likud MK Dan Illouz and opposition Yisrael Beytenu MK Oded Forer.

Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan in the 1967 Six Day War, and the territory is now estimated to be home to more than 500,000 Israeli settlers, in addition to millions of Palestinians. Much of the international community says Israel is illegally occupying the territory and views the settlements as violations of international law, which Israel disputes.

“This is our land. This is our home. The Land of Israel belongs to the people of Israel,” Knesset Speaker Amir Ohana said after the vote. “In 1967, the occupation did not begin; it ended, and our homeland was returned to its rightful owners. We are the original first natives of this piece of land. Jews cannot be the ‘occupier’ of a land that for 3,000 years has been called Judea.”

Annexation of the West Bank, or of its Israeli settlements, is a longtime aspiration of the Israeli right. In 2019, ahead of an election, Netanyahu pledged to annex the Jordan Valley, on the territory’s eastern flank. But that pledge and similar efforts took a backseat amid a protracted political crisis that saw a string of inconclusive elections. The government has not pursued binding annexation legislation since, though it voted in similar numbers last year against the establishment of a Palestinian state.

Wednesday’s vote came days before lawmakers will break for a nearly three-month recess, and as the coalition fights for its political life. On the same day, Likud MKs voted to unseat their colleague Yuli Edelstein as chair of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, replacing him with Boaz Bismuth, a loyalist of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who is expected to advance a law regulating ultra-Orthodox enlistment.

The ultra-Orthodox parties, which left the coalition due to disputes over the enlistment law, nevertheless joined Likud and other right-wing parties in voting for the annexation resolution. The opposition Yisrael Beiteinu also voted in favor.

Voting against were the Arab parties as well as the left-wing Democrats. The largest opposition parties, Yesh Atid and Blue and White, did not vote on the motion.

“Annexation of Judea and Samaria is a clear danger to the future of the state of Israel and the Zionist enterprise,” Democrats MK Gilad Kariv posted on X, calling the motion “a smokescreen for abandoning the hostages [held by Hamas in Gaza] and advancing an evasion law.”

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas’s deputy, Hussein al-Sheikh, called the annexation vote a “dangerous escalation that undermines the prospects for peace, stability and the two-state solution.”

Sheikh also called the vote “a direct assault on the rights of the Palestinian people,” who ostensibly would not receive equal rights to their Israeli settler neighbors in a scenario where Jerusalem annexes the West Bank.

Urging the international community to intervene to roll back Israeli “violations,” the senior Palestinian official said countries should recognize a Palestinian state in response.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Israel is killing itself alongside its genocide of the Gazans.  Public opinion in America is shifting radically against it. Public opinion in Europe is almost unanimous.

To survive in that neighborhood, Israel needs friends.  It’ll soon have none.

I'll believe that when I see it. Officially going "against" Israel by cutting off their weapon supply and limiting our support is still political suicide, and this administration sure as shit aren't going to be the ones to buck the trend.

Edited by aggie08
Posted

I find it interesting that there is a certain type of person who thinks that nation states and their leaders should only be held to the standards of terrorist organizations and their leaders and criminal organizations and mafia bosses

 

 

 

 

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Posted

image.png.70a007c42a287ce165cd9a1f5d3d8fae.png
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/brazil-join-south-africas-gaza-genocide-case-against-israel-icj-2025-07-23/

BRASILIA, July 23 (Reuters) - Brazil is finalizing its submission to join South Africa's genocide case against Israel's actions in Gaza at the International Court of Justice, the foreign ministry said in a statement on Wednesday.

South Africa filed a case in 2023 asking the ICJ to declare that Israel was in breach of its obligations under the 1948 Genocide Convention. The case argues that in its war against Hamas militants, Israel's military actions go beyond targeting Hamas alone by attacking civilians, with strikes on schools, hospitals, camps and shelters.

Other countries – including Spain, Turkey and Colombia – have also sought to join the case against Israel.

In its statement, the Brazilian government accused Israel of violations of international law "such as the annexation of territories by force," and it expressed "deep indignation" at violence suffered by the civilian population.

Israel denies deliberately targeting Palestinian civilians, saying its sole interest is to annihilate Hamas. Lawyers for Israel have dismissed South Africa's case as an abuse of the genocide convention.

The Israeli embassy in Brasilia said the Brazilian statement used "harsh words that do not fully portray the reality of what is currently happening in Gaza," while Brazil also "completely ignored" the role of Hamas within Gaza's reality.

Brazil's National Israeli association CONIB said in a statement in response to Wednesday's decision: "The breaking of Brazil's long-standing friendship and partnership with Israel is a misguided move that proves the extremism of our foreign policy."

Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva has long been an outspoken critic of Israel's actions in Gaza, but Wednesday's decision carries added significance amid heightened tensions between Brazil and Israel ally the United States. The Trump administration announced 50% tariffs on all Brazilian goods this month.

A diplomat familiar with the thinking of the Lula administration told Reuters that Brazil does not believe its decision to join South Africa's case will impact its relationship with Washington.

The United States has opposed South Africa's genocide case under both Democratic former President Joe Biden and Trump, a Republican. In February, Trump signed an executive order to cut U.S. financial assistance to South Africa, citing in part its ICJ case.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I'll believe that when I see it. Officially going "against" Israel by cutting off their weapon supply and limiting our support is still political suicide, and this administration sure as shit aren't going to be the ones to buck the trend.

Well, because Israel and the US of A are suffering the same problem:  alienating their friends.

But as GoLL wisely observes, Israel probably needs friends more than we do.

It will be interesting to see if either nation recovers from this death spiral and, if so, whether they can make up with their former friends on any basis.  I think the US has a stronger case for the necessity of its friendship than Israel.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

I'll believe that when I see it. Officially going "against" Israel by cutting off their weapon supply and limiting our support is still political suicide, and this administration sure as shit aren't going to be the ones to buck the trend.

It's just a matter of time, this time a year ago it's definitely political suicide, now that is mostly a smoke screen. Sadly, 2 million Palestinians in Gaza will probably be dead before it actually happens.

Posted
18 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Israel is killing itself alongside its genocide of the Gazans.  Public opinion in America is shifting radically against it. Public opinion in Europe is almost unanimous.

To survive in that neighborhood, Israel needs friends.  It’ll soon have none.

Whatever debate there was in the past about Israel "becoming the monster it claims to be fighting against" -- and without rehashing 75+ years of discussion, there was a spectrum of defensible opinions on the matter -- that debate is functionally over.  

Israel has affirmatively and defiantly said "fuck yeah, we've become the monster.  What are you gonna do about it?"  It feels good in the moment, at least to the Israeli hardliners and the "I support Israel, no exceptions" crowd.  But it may well be fatal in the long run.  

Plenty of folks around here are a good example.  I have long been pretty pragmatic on the matter; Israel exists, it has a continuing right to exist, and we (the world in general) should support its continued existence.  But today?  Israel can do what it wants, I guess, like any nation state can and will.  But they're gonna do it without my support, and I'd prefer without my tax dollars and weapons.  A hostile enemy force attacked a guy I know, committing horrific atrocities, including against civilians.  That guy said "I'm gonna go kick those guys' asses, and get my people back."  And most all of us said "yep, you go do that."  Now, that guy is openly and proudly gunning down innocents left and right (and "now" has been a pretty long damned time in this war -- we went beyond "it's a complex kinetic action, collateral casualties will happen" after the first couple of months), is purposefully engineering a famine, and even prohibiting civilians from TOUCHING the sea (the only source of water, cleaning, etc. around).  Yeah, most sane people would tell that guy "dude, WTF?  Cut that shit out, and if you wanna keep it up, you're on your own.  I'm not with you."

Becoming the pro-genocide guys rarely turns out well for you in the long-run, but Israel is gonna make a run at 

cf295e1a-888e-4c95-8771-fb612b38cbbc_tex

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Posted

The IDF was at its founding a roll up of Zionist paramilitary and terrorist organizations. They’ve been doing the ethnic cleansing thing now for nearly a 100 years. Id like to think we passed some tipping point, but I don’t really think anything substantively changes until they just simply kill or effectively eliminate the Palestinians and take their remaining land. Certainly nothing changes until the United States stops arming and funding and laying cover for them at every turn. 

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Posted
48 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Certainly nothing changes until the United States stops arming and funding and laying cover for them at every turn. 

Biden could have put a stop to this with 1 phone call. That is, perhaps, the most frustrating part.

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Posted
2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

I'll believe that when I see it. Officially going "against" Israel by cutting off their weapon supply and limiting our support is still political suicide, and this administration sure as shit aren't going to be the ones to buck the trend.

Yeah, we’re never going to abandon Israel. 

2 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's just a matter of time, this time a year ago it's definitely political suicide, now that is mostly a smoke screen. Sadly, 2 million Palestinians in Gaza will probably be dead before it actually happens.

Never happening. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Biden could have put a stop to this with 1 phone call. That is, perhaps, the most frustrating part.

I don't even think this is true. Doesn't mean he shouldn't have withheld support, but Israel has their own military industrial complex and they're committed to this. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I don't even think this is true. Doesn't mean he shouldn't have withheld support, but Israel has their own military industrial complex and they're committed to this. 

All the more reason why it's ridiculous that we continue to fund and stock their armories. They don't need our help (anymore) to defend themselves or bomb their neighbors 100 times over.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I don't even think this is true. Doesn't mean he shouldn't have withheld support, but Israel has their own military industrial complex and they're committed to this. 

It's perhaps an exaggeration because these things are always more complicated than that and it would take more than just a phone call realistically, but something like 70-80% of the ordinance used in Gaza comes directly from us. 

If our government decided that the genocide in Gaza was no longer acceptable, it would end, that's the bottom line. It was acceptable to the Biden admin, and it is acceptable to the Trump admin.

We have infinite leverage over Israel, they have basically none over us, relatively speaking. We simply choose not to use it because Israel is effectively an American state and an extension of our hegemonic power.

Palestinians in Gaza being subjected to a second Holocaust is simply not a hill worth dying on for our government until it is. And by the time it is, it will be far too late, just like it was with the first Holocaust.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

All the more reason why it's ridiculous that we continue to fund and stock their armories. They don't need our help (anymore) to defend themselves or bomb their neighbors 100 times over.

No dude, this is wrong. They absolutely need our money and weapons. They could not sustain the conflict in just Gaza by itself on their own, much less wars on multiple fronts. 

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Posted

It goes even deeper than that, because their citizens enjoy many qualities of life that we don't have here in America, like free health care and education, because their military is heavily subsidized by us.

If they suddenly had to fund their own wars, they would be unable to provide these services to their citizens, and their society would collapse very quickly.

It's all a massive house of cards.

I'm not saying I want it to collapse, I don't, but the leverage we hold over them should be a goddamn Sword of Damocles considering what they do with our money, but we just pretend it doesn't exist.

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Posted
33 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

No dude, this is wrong. They absolutely need our money and weapons. They could not sustain the conflict in just Gaza by itself on their own, much less wars on multiple fronts. 

My overall point was that Israel isn't going to get invaded tomorrow if the United States cut off their weapon shipments. Obviously, it leaves them more vulnerable long term, but their military might still far outclasses their neighbors, with or without us.

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Posted
47 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I don't even think this is true. Doesn't mean he shouldn't have withheld support, but Israel has their own military industrial complex and they're committed to this. 

A military industrial complex built and sustained largely with subsidies from American taxpayers. Any American president can absolutely influence this. Turn off the dollars, turn off the arms shipments, stop running cover at un. 

Posted
31 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

My overall point was that Israel isn't going to get invaded tomorrow if the United States cut off their weapon shipments. Obviously, it leaves them more vulnerable long term, but their military might still far outclasses their neighbors, with or without us.

Yeah for sure, and I think we should keep helping ensure their defense, and everyone else's in the region. It's in our best interest to do so.

Posted
4 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

Israel is killing itself alongside its genocide of the Gazans.  Public opinion in America is shifting radically against it. Public opinion in Europe is almost unanimous.

To survive in that neighborhood, Israel needs friends.  It’ll soon have none.

A friend from Israel put it pretty bluntly a few days ago, and he’s admittedly biased because his son (whose wife just gave birth to their first child, his first grandchild) got called up - There will be a very high price to pay down the road and they are creating some long-term security issues for Israel at a time that they are stretched thin.
 

My view is similar.  They’ve bombed Iran, a nation of 90 million people, Syria, over 20 million people, and then the fuckery with the Palestinians. Now Iran and Syria, as nation-states, aren’t going to do much to Israel.  But there are a lot of religious and political leaders in both countries who talk a lot of shit about Israel, and Israel’s actions in Gaza (and Iran and Syria) are playing into their hands, and allowing them to say “see, we’ve been telling you for years that Israel wants to rule over the Arab/Muslim/Persian world and wants to kill many of us!”

And the next-door bombing in Syria, and the starvation in Gaza, are creating a lot of young Muslims in the area who are going to not only agree with these religious and political leaders, but who are going to feel like they don’t have a lot to lose and will take action, either on their own, or joining a group like Hamas.

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Posted
5 hours ago, aggie08 said:

I'll believe that when I see it. Officially going "against" Israel by cutting off their weapon supply and limiting our support is still political suicide, and this administration sure as shit aren't going to be the ones to buck the trend.

Trump does not like to be seen as anybody’s puppet (see Russia) and he does not like to be questioned about the actions of other leaders in a way that implies he can’t do anything to stop them or that he has no power.  He’s also a little obsessed with some peace award, and Netanyahu is making him look foolish.  Putin did that and now we are back to supporting Ukraine.

Posted
2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

And the next-door bombing in Syria, and the starvation in Gaza, are creating a lot of young Muslims in the area who are going to not only agree with these religious and political leaders, but who are going to feel like they don’t have a lot to lose and will take action, either on their own, or joining a group like Hamas.

Yeah, there's definitely some of this.  Sure, ALL military-type action creates a risk of "creating more terrorists/combatants" among the people/countries on the receiving end.  But this round is going so damned far that it sure looks like Israel 1) doesn't give a damn how many of those people it radicalizes, because 2) they intend on exterminating all of those people no matter what, so it don't make a shit.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

We have infinite leverage over Israel, they have basically none over us, relatively speaking. We simply choose not to use it because Israel is effectively an American state and an extension of our hegemonic power.

feels game of thrones GIF
 

The evangelicals in this country will always make sure that we prop up Israel.

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Posted
41 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

feels game of thrones GIF
 

The evangelicals in this country will always make sure that we prop up Israel.

Sure, that plays a part as well, but the main driver is Israel acting as the primary arm of our power projection in the middle east.

Posted
4 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Who's saying we should abandon them, dumb fuck? Clean the cobwebs out from between your ears.

Try to hide your bloodlust a little bit better.

We’re not cutting any funding, especially after October 7. I’m a staunch Israel supporter and never hide that fact. 

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Posted
25 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I’m a staunch Israel supporter

But why? I ask sincerely. Is there a line they could cross that would lead you to reconsider that level of support?

Posted
41 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

But why? I ask sincerely. Is there a line they could cross that would lead you to reconsider that level of support?

I have family and friends there. Their survival depends on our continued support. It’s hard to imagine a scenario in which I would be ok with them being killed. 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I have family and friends there. Their survival depends on our continued support. It’s hard to imagine a scenario in which I would be ok with them being killed. 

If you are a Jew with family in Israel I get it. Still not a compelling reason to dump American taxpayer dollars and arms there. But I get your position if that is the case. I do disagree that their survival depends on the American taxpayer. But if it does than you should just love them to  Montana or something. 

Edited by Anastasis
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Posted
36 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

If you are a Jew with family in Israel I get it. Still not a compelling reason to dump American taxpayer dollars and arms there. But I get your position if that is the case. I do disagree that their survival depends on the American taxpayer. But if it does than you should just love them to  Montana or something. 

Interesting, my in laws have a ranch in Wyoming…. But that actually may be a more dangerous situation. Thanks for being respectful, seriously. It’s rare in this place anymore. 

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