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Posted
6 minutes ago, Descendant said:

It’s the type of Dna content present as well as the way it is packaged. You should read the explainer I linked. Here’s the discussion on Dna levels and limits from the paper itself.

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Currently, the US FDA recommends manufacturers of viral vaccines to limit the amount of residual DNA in the final product to below 10 ng/dose for parenteral inoculations and the size of the DNA to below the size of a functional gene, or ∼200 base pairs [Citation12]. This is also in keeping with recommendations from the World Health Organization (WHO) [Citation20,Citation56], and is for “naked” DNA, i.e. DNA that is not associated with proteins, lipids, or other molecules for protection or packaging. Previous residual DNA levels were set by the FDA at 10 pg/dose in 1985. A 1986 WHO study group concluded that the risk is negligible up to 100 pg/dose and in 1996 the WHO further increased levels up to 10 ng per dose [Citation20]. However, as the residual DNA is encapsulated in the LNPs and is transfected efficiently directly into cells the DNA guidelines for modRNA vaccines need to be re-evaluated.

The FDA and WHO guidelines for allowable DNA in vaccines are influenced by work published by FDA scientists Sheng-Fowler et al. [Citation57]. This work focused on host cell genomic DNA contamination and made note of the increased number of molecules present when small viral vectors are the contaminating species. For these high copy per nanogram contaminants, femtograms to attograms of DNA are considered the equivalent of nanograms of cell substrate genomic DNA. Given the short fragment size in the modRNA vaccines, the number of molecules in each dose can reach over 100 billion molecules. The residual DNA in these vaccines is high in copy number and rich in promoters, SV40 mammalian origins of replication, ORFs and nuclear targeting sequences. The FDA and WHO guidelines did not consider packaging of DNA in lipid nanoparticles, likely resulting in longer DNA persistence as well as increased transfection efficiency. Furthermore, the guidelines did not consider cumulative dosing with LNP-based modRNA. Data have shown that LNPs are capable of increasing RNA or DNA cell entry by 10–100-fold

Their results found it present in several hundreds to some even in the thousands of nanograms/dose. 

Still doesn’t make sense to me. DNA found in plasma doesn’t appear, in my searches, to be limited by regulation. The DNA in plasma is donated by the public. I would think DNA found in vaccines is from cells grown in laboratories, and free from the vagaries of a random procurement. I get an abundance of caution, and perhaps the need for plasma can override the niceties of such caution, otoh, this doesn’t convince me the threat is greater than the reward.

Posted
10 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Still doesn’t make sense to me. DNA found in plasma doesn’t appear, in my searches, to be limited by regulation. The DNA in plasma is donated by the public. I would think DNA found in vaccines is from cells grown in laboratories, and free from the vagaries of a random procurement. I get an abundance of caution, and perhaps the need for plasma can override the niceties of such caution, otoh, this doesn’t convince me the threat is greater than the reward.

Jesus. 

Different pieces of DNA, different additives. On one hand with plasma it’s free DNA from dead cells. On the other hand with covid vaccine it’s DNA from the process used to make a immunogenic compound. It’s also included in the lipid nano particle that helps it enter live cells. 

There's also the presence of a gene promoter in the samples. From the explainer. 

Spoiler

Back to SV40. SV40 is a gene therapy tool. It’s used to traffic stuff to the nucleus of cells. If a cell is dividing, its nuclear membrane breaks down and any old foreign DNA can hypothetically gain access to become integrated. It’s possible. So there’s that. But foreign DNA like SV40 and the other junk only needs to find its way to the juicy interior of a cell to wreak havoc in terms of activating cancer pathways (see: cGas-STING pathway).

There’s also the fact that the SV40 promoter/enhancer sequences are known to interact with the quintessential p53 protein. You know, that tumor suppressor thingy often called the guardian of the genome? What effect is that having? Is it impairing the tumor suppressor effects of p53? Is this why we’re seeing cancers on the rise? There’s more that SV40 can do to mess things up, but I will leave it at this.

Why are there not set limits on plasma? Probably because it’s been given for decades, and well before they could even measure DNA quantities in samples. And again, it’s free human DNA. 

 

For vaccines there are set pre-existing standards. These vaccines appear to be exponentially breaking them. I'm sorry if this doesn't convince you the threat is greater than the reward. Fortunately you’re just someone with a limited understanding on the internet. Btw the reward is extremely limited now, in small population cohorts. 

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Posted
33 minutes ago, Descendant said:

Jesus. 

Different pieces of DNA, different additives. On one hand with plasma it’s free DNA from dead cells. On the other hand with covid vaccine it’s DNA from the process used to make a immunogenic compound. It’s also included in the lipid nano particle that helps it enter live cells. 

There's also the presence of a gene promoter in the samples. From the explainer. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Back to SV40. SV40 is a gene therapy tool. It’s used to traffic stuff to the nucleus of cells. If a cell is dividing, its nuclear membrane breaks down and any old foreign DNA can hypothetically gain access to become integrated. It’s possible. So there’s that. But foreign DNA like SV40 and the other junk only needs to find its way to the juicy interior of a cell to wreak havoc in terms of activating cancer pathways (see: cGas-STING pathway).

There’s also the fact that the SV40 promoter/enhancer sequences are known to interact with the quintessential p53 protein. You know, that tumor suppressor thingy often called the guardian of the genome? What effect is that having? Is it impairing the tumor suppressor effects of p53? Is this why we’re seeing cancers on the rise? There’s more that SV40 can do to mess things up, but I will leave it at this.

Why are there not set limits on plasma? Probably because it’s been given for decades, and well before they could even measure DNA quantities in samples. And again, it’s free human DNA. 

 

For vaccines there are set pre-existing standards. These vaccines appear to be exponentially breaking them. I'm sorry if this doesn't convince you the threat is greater than the reward. Fortunately you’re just someone with a limited understanding on the internet. Btw the reward is extremely limited now, in small population cohorts. 

Nothing more trustworthy than an anti-science person posting an unsourced explainer, gotta say 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Nothing more trustworthy than an anti-science person posting an unsourced explainer, gotta say 

That's why I included the endorsement of the director of an Ivy League cancer center. 

Here’s his cv if interested. 

https://legorreta.brown.edu/about-us/our-director

You can go with him or someone named Willfully Horn that seriously believes 37% of infections lead to long Covid. 

Edited by Descendant
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Posted
4 minutes ago, Descendant said:

That's why I included the endorsement of the director of an Ivy League cancer center. 

Here’s his cv if interested. 

https://legorreta.brown.edu/about-us/our-director

You can go with him or someone named Willfully Horn that seriously believes 37% of infections lead to long Covid. 

https://www.statista.com/topics/11285/long-covid-in-the-united-states/#topicOverview

Prevalence of Long COVID in the United States


Because there is no test for Long COVID, it is difficult to determine how many people are affected by the condition. However, recent surveys from the United States show that around 18 percent of the total population may have had Long COVID as of September 2024, with around 30 percent of those who had been infected with COVID-19 experiencing long-term symptoms from the disease. Long COVID is more common among women in the United States than men and those aged 40 to 59 years who had been infected with COVID-19 were more likely to report ever experiencing Long COVID than other age groups. The states with the highest share of people who previously had COVID-19, with symptoms lasting three months or longer are Oklahoma, Mississippi, and North Dakota. In Mississippi, up to 39 percent of those who had COVID-19 reported suffering from Long COVID. It is estimated that over 38 million people in the United States have or continue to have symptoms of Long COVID.

Posted

Picked up covid somewhere ( I assume in the backend of an airplane because I otherwise avoid people) and started showing symptoms last Saturday. I never get fever or body aches, so I knew it was something beyond a cold virus. We have a stockpile of those combo Flu A/B Covid test kits. That covid line got lit up like Sark's Oline within 60 seconds. On the backside of the slope now, and probably won't die. It's still out there. 

Posted
18 minutes ago, Descendant said:

That's why I included the endorsement of the director of an Ivy League cancer center. 

Here’s his cv if interested. 

https://legorreta.brown.edu/about-us/our-director

You can go with him or someone named Willfully Horn that seriously believes 37% of infections lead to long Covid. 

Yeah, about that.

Quote

The pooled global prevalence of long COVID was estimated to be 36% (95% confidence interval [CI], 33%–40%) in individuals with confirmed COVID-19 diagnosis

https://academic.oup.com/ofid/article/12/9/ofaf533/8244677

 

But, I was wrong. It is 36%.

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Posted
16 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Yeah, about that.

https://academic.oup.com/ofid/article/12/9/ofaf533/8244677

 

But, I was wrong. It is 36%.

A global meta analysis with estimates that are based off of surverys for up to 42 potential symptoms of long Covid? You just have to ping one? It’s not hard to see how you get an extremely inflated estimate.

All viral infections have potential post-infectious sequelae. I have no doubt that Covid’s could be more prevalent. But it just doesn't pass the sniff test. Too much bias present in surveys after the fact. 

Think about it, almost every person you know has contracted Covid. How many have you ever heard had significant long Covid symptoms? 36%? Um, there's no fucking way. 

40 minutes ago, Captainant said:

https://www.statista.com/topics/11285/long-covid-in-the-united-states/#topicOverview

Prevalence of Long COVID in the United States


Because there is no test for Long COVID, it is difficult to determine how many people are affected by the condition. However, recent surveys from the United States show that around 18 percent of the total population may have had Long COVID as of September 2024, with around 30 percent of those who had been infected with COVID-19 experiencing long-term symptoms from the disease. Long COVID is more common among women in the United States than men and those aged 40 to 59 years who had been infected with COVID-19 were more likely to report ever experiencing Long COVID than other age groups. The states with the highest share of people who previously had COVID-19, with symptoms lasting three months or longer are Oklahoma, Mississippi, and North Dakota. In Mississippi, up to 39 percent of those who had COVID-19 reported suffering from Long COVID. It is estimated that over 38 million people in the United States have or continue to have symptoms of Long COVID.

Again, there's a ton of bias in who responds to these types of surveys. 

The statista link claims 18% cumulatively over time. If you believe those numbers that still includes multiple infections in these people over that period. 

Again, all viral infections have sequelae.

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Posted

I came down with something this week. Either a mild cold or some lesser strain of COVID. Severe sinus pressure starting Monday night. Congestion and sinus drainage Tuesday, still present but milder yesterday. Just some residual phlegm left to expel today and feel almost back to normal. Was still able to work out each day as I never really felt "sick," though I didn't feel like I was at 100% so I went less than full effort. No headache, body aches, or fever at any point. Mild fatigue at worst. 

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