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Posted
35 minutes ago, Hitch said:

There is no winner in a Facebook argument. 

There is no winner having Facebook. Enjoy arguing with bots and boomers 

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Posted
On 7/22/2025 at 12:36 PM, Captainant said:

So now that we're at the point of ICE entering schools and their coaches standing up against the feds saying they'll die before they let their kids be taken, I hope you're paying attention.

Where did they enter a school? I have missed that.

Posted
1 minute ago, Foosters said:

Second link broken?

“PICO RIVERA, Calif. -- A southern California school district released video that allegedly shows United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Border Patrol agents urinating at a school campus in Pico Rivera.”

Can you read? It says ‘at’ in the first paragraph of the article. No one made it inside the school. They still have not entered a school. Jesus Christ….grip those semantics a little harder to justify your stupidity.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, DaggerHorns said:

“PICO RIVERA, Calif. -- A southern California school district released video that allegedly shows United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Border Patrol agents urinating at a school campus in Pico Rivera.”

Can you read? It says ‘at’ in the first paragraph of the article. No one made it inside the school. They still have not entered a school. Jesus Christ….grip those semantics a little harder to justify your stupidity.

The incident happened the morning of June 17. The school district says that 10 marked and unmarked cars with federal agents pulled into Salazar High School. Campus cameras captured some of those agents urinating on school grounds, school district leaders said.

Posted

Dagger:

"The nazis haven't actually gone INTO a synagogue to snatch up jews and then ship them off to concentration camps.  Jesus Christ….grip those semantics a little harder to justify your stupidity."

This fucking timeline, man.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Foosters said:

The incident happened the morning of June 17. The school district says that 10 marked and unmarked cars with federal agents pulled into Salazar High School. Campus cameras captured some of those agents urinating on school grounds, school district leaders said.

Still haven’t entered a school…try again.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Dagger:

"The nazis haven't actually gone INTO a synagogue to snatch up jews and then ship them off to concentration camps.  Jesus Christ….grip those semantics a little harder to justify your stupidity."

This fucking timeline, man.

Uh, timeline? Wtf are you talking about?

You just made up a statement that you wanted me to say? I never said anything about Jews or Nazis yet you wanted so badly to say those words to help your delicate detrimental thoughts.
 

I know you won’t do this, but try having a constructive argument based upon facts and critical thinking. Don’t do it for yourself. Just try and do it for everyone else that has to read your stupid bullshit that makes zero fucking sense.

Edited by DaggerHorns
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Posted
Just now, DaggerHorns said:

Uh, timeline? Wtf are you talking about?

You just made up a statement that you wanted me to say? I never said anything about Jews or Nazis yet you wanted so badly to say those words to help your delicate detrimental thoughts.
 

I now you won’t do this, but try having a constructive argument based upon facts and critical thinking. Don’t do it for yourself. Just try and do it for everyone else that has to read your stupid bullshit that makes zero fucking sense.

Sure.  See, I made an analogy.

You are stanning for ICE because they haven't gone all the way in to schools, as if that is some great positive fact (they have attempted to do so more than once, that we know of).  It wouldn't exactly be a great fact for us if the Nazis did all their shit, but simply hadn't entered a synagogue....yet.

Posted
6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Sure.  See, I made an analogy.

You are stanning for ICE because they haven't gone all the way in to schools, as if that is some great positive fact (they have attempted to do so more than once, that we know of).  It wouldn't exactly be a great fact for us if the Nazis did all their shit, but simply hadn't entered a synagogue....yet.

“Stanning”

You're literally just making shit up. I never said anything about supporting anyone. It’s cool though that you just started talking about Nazis for whatever comparison you needed to get through your day.

Keep that “yet” word close. Maybe it can help you somewhere else.

Posted
Just now, Foosters said:

Silly me, I thought going onto a school's campus would count, but turns out, it doesn't!

See, the ICE agents went INTO the building (which they did at a LAUSD school), but they didn't actually ARREST anyone there (because the school officials kicked them out)!  So, Dagger is winning here!  ICE....DEFENDED!

Posted
2 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Silly me, I thought going onto a school's campus would count, but turns out, it doesn't!

“1) ICE still has not entered a school and deported minors”

That was my previous statement as the argument of discussion. It’s accurate. Silly me, I thought you could read!

Posted
3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

See, the ICE agents went INTO the building (which they did at a LAUSD school), but they didn't actually ARREST anyone there (because the school officials kicked them out)!  So, Dagger is winning here!  ICE....DEFENDED!

Immigration enforcement officers from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security attempted to enter two Los Angeles Unified School District elementary schools — where they were denied entry by school administrators — in search of students on April 7.”

 

I read “denied entry” in the article but I guess you read differently.

🤝

Posted
22 minutes ago, DaggerHorns said:

Still haven’t entered a school…try again.

My bad. On my screen it's leaving out the "and deported children" part. Might want to check with the mods to see what the issue is.

Posted
3 minutes ago, Foosters said:

My bad. On my screen it's leaving out the "and deported children" part. Might want to check with the mods to see what the issue is.

It didn’t say “children.” 
 

The mods would just tell you that maybe you need to enter a school and take reading and writing.

Posted
11 minutes ago, DaggerHorns said:

It didn’t say “children.” 
 

The mods would just tell you that maybe you need to enter a school and take reading and writing.

 

As someone who hasn’t been part of this conversation, may I ask the purpose of this crusade you’re on?

ICE agents attempted to gain entry into an elementary school, according to various news reports. Had the principal not denied them access, they would have. You stated you’re glad they couldn’t go in, but your making nine posts on this page about this pedantic quibble is a bit odd.

If we’re going to get really technical about it, I’d bet they at least opened the front door and made it to the front office. My daughter’s no longer in school, and I did teach high school for a year in the early 1990s. But from my experience, when walking into a school, there’s rarely a person actually guarding the door throughout the day, much less the principal.

Now, granted, things may have changed in the past several years with all the fucking school shootings, and this is Los Angeles, so I could very well be wrong, but this is a really weird argument over such a minor detail when the overall argument is that ICE agents shouldn’t be going to schools to round up children, which you apparently agree with.

Again, I’ll ask, what point are you trying to make here? Do you demand verbal precision in every conversation that you have? If so, may I point out the number of grammatical errors in your previous posts?

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Posted
16 minutes ago, bolverk said:

 

As someone who hasn’t been part of this conversation, may I ask the purpose of this crusade you’re on?

Do you demand verbal precision in every conversation that you have?

If so, may I point out the number of grammatical errors in your previous posts?

Facts (again for I think the 4th or 5th time, no one has entered a school and deported minors).

No.

Yes, do whatever you would like here.

 

You say “apparently agree with” which makes you wrong. Again, I’ve stated I was happy they were denied entry. Why speculate about something that I’ve stated completely contrary? If I supported ICE, wouldn’t I say something else there, wtf???
 

Why are people wanting so badly for ICE to have entered schools and deported minors? It’s not true but people here are wanting so badly for it to be the case. They haven’t done that and it needs to remain the same, yet here you are accusing me of supporting ICE when I’ve said nothing of the sort. I’ve also been given Jew and Nazi commentary when I didn’t bring anything of that sort up. 

Posted
10 minutes ago, DaggerHorns said:

Facts (again for I think the 4th or 5th time, no one has entered a school and deported minors).

No.

Yes, do whatever you would like here.

 

You say “apparently agree with” which makes you wrong. Again, I’ve stated I was happy they were denied entry. Why speculate about something that I’ve stated completely contrary? If I supported ICE, wouldn’t I say something else there, wtf???
 

Why are people wanting so badly for ICE to have entered schools and deported minors? It’s not true but people here are wanting so badly for it to be the case. They haven’t done that and it needs to remain the same, yet here you are accusing me of supporting ICE when I’ve said nothing of the sort. I’ve also been given Jew and Nazi commentary when I didn’t bring anything of that sort up. 

 

Jesus. Read this portion of my sentence again very carefully:

"the overall argument is that ICE agents shouldn’t be going to schools to round up children, which you apparently agree with."

I'm a little tired today, so maybe I could've been clearer, but I'm stating that you agree with the idea that children shouldn't be rounded up at schools.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, bolverk said:

 

Jesus. Read this portion of my sentence again very carefully:

"the overall argument is that ICE agents shouldn’t be going to schools to round up children, which you apparently agree with."

I'm a little tired today, so maybe I could've been clearer, but I'm stating that you agree with the idea that children shouldn't be rounded up at schools.

Agreed, I did misread that. I’ll go kick myself in the nuts now.

Edited by DaggerHorns
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Posted
19 minutes ago, DaggerHorns said:

Agreed, I did misread that. I’ll go kick myself in the nuts now.

Objection, facts not in evidence. There is no way this person has any nuts. 

Posted
6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Objection, facts not in evidence. There is no way this person has any nuts. 

I don’t care what everyone here says about you. I really appreciate your intelligent contributions to threads like this.

image.gif.93a757c962ff2edabd8e0c8f78f41dd0.gif

Posted (edited)

This is some fucked up shit.

Basically, it looks like they're trying to make protesting ICE illegal, in plain violation of the First Amendment in many cases, by intentionally conflating opposition to their activities with serious crimes. This is the kind of stuff that dictators do.

And give me a break about "doxing" agents. Pretty soon, some local jurisdiction will make the same argument about regular beat cops, saying their identities should also be shielded from the public for their safety. Imagine the next time you get stopped for a broken taillight or something, and the cop who comes up to your car door is wearing a fucking mask, like in The Watchmen?

Spoiler

😷Readers Ask: Can ICE Really Wear Masks? - by Ehsan Zaffar

 

Is this what people want, living in a police state where bullshit laws are enforced based on assumptions and not facts or evidence?

image.thumb.png.27e2aaff6c7e638a0f17a5b4583d24ae.png
https://theintercept.com/2025/07/23/feds-criminalize-protests-masked-ice/
https://archive.is/sQii5

Speaking on Fox News last week, a top official from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement said the agency was expanding its dragnet for arrests. 

“I think we all know that criminals tend to hang out with criminals,” ICE Deputy Director Madison Sheahan said. “And so when we start to build a case, we’re going to be going after everyone that’s around them. Because these criminals tend to hang out with like-minded people who also happen to be criminals.”

The pledge to broaden arrests came as an immigration sweep that sowed fear across the Los Angeles area has been met by a growing protest movement to stop the raids and arrests.

In addition to arresting hundreds of immigrants across Southern California, the government is targeting a mounting number of people who are responding to the raids or helping protests. Some of those targeted have provided supplies to protesters or tried to identify ICE agents conducting raids in masks and plain clothes.

The remarks from Sheahan, the ICE official, came three days after a federal judge ordered the Trump administration to stop indiscriminate ICE raids in LA. In the order, Judge Maame Ewusi-Mensah Frimpong condemned the administration’s use of a person’s characteristics — like their appearance, accent, or occupation — as a basis for arrest.

“Roving patrols” operating without reasonable suspicion and denying access to lawyers violated the Fourth and the Fifth Amendments, the judge wrote. “What the federal government would have this Court believe — in the face of a mountain of evidence presented in this case — is that none of this is actually happening.”

Now, those accused of helping the anti-ICE movement are facing prosecution or investigation. Earlier this month, a federal grand jury indicted a man after he handed out face shields to people protesting ICE in Los Angeles two days after President Donald Trump deployed the National Guard.

Alejandro Orellana, 29, pleaded not guilty to a charge of conspiracy to aid and abet civil disorders. According to a grand jury indictment, the face shields were “advertised as designed to protect from chemical splashes and flying debris.”

“Alejandro Orellana’s arrest for distributing supplies is an outrageous violation of civil rights and should be a wakeup call to people everywhere,” said California attorney Thomas Harvey.

“This appears to be a targeted, political attack on resistance to a military incursion on our communities,” Harvey said. “Distributing supplies to protesters is not a crime. It’s a critical role to help keep people safe — especially in the face of some of the most violent police repression I’ve seen since the Ferguson uprising.”

In Orellana’s case, an agent from the FBI made a claim similar to the one the ICE deputy would later make to Fox News — that it was assigning criminality to people based on assumptions, not on evidence.

The agent claimed in an affidavit that wearing such gear like the face shields, designed to protect against law enforcement using pepper spray or tear gas, “is not common amongst non-violent, peaceful protesters.” Instead, he argued, the face shield was “the kind of item used by violent agitators to enable them to resist law enforcement and to engage in violence and/or vandalism during a civil disorder.”

Identifying Masked ICE Agents
As part of expanding its definitions of criminal activity to include forms of protest responding to ICE, the government ramped up its efforts to investigate people suspected of providing identifying information about ICE agents.

On July 11, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem released a statement condemning “anarchists and rioters” in Portland who posted flyers with identifying information about ICE agents and said the department would prosecute “those who dox ICE agents to the fullest extent of the law.”

Last month, Sen. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., introduced a bill that would make identifying ICE officers a federal crime.

In another case in May, ICE agents raided the home of a family in Irvine, California, on a criminal search warrant. They were investigating the source of flyers that had been posted around LA earlier this year with identifying information about ICE officers. The government suspected the family’s son was responsible.

Rep. Dave Min, D-Calif., issued a statement after the May raid saying he was “deeply concerned” with news of the raid and had asked federal law enforcement for more information. Min’s office did not respond to questions about whether they had yet received any such information.

Several of the efforts to further criminalize protest flyers or mutual aid have also been used against pro-Palestine student protesters, Cop City activists in Georgia, and people providing water to migrants.

Police charged protesters opposing the construction of the so-called Cop City police training facility with felonies for posting flyers in 2023, The Intercept reported. The activists had posted flyers in a neighborhood where a police officer lived, naming him and alleging that he was connected to the killing earlier that year of Manuel “Tortuguita” Terán. Police shot Tortuguita 57 times, killing the activist during a multiagency raid on the Atlanta Forest protest encampment.

In 2023, prosecutors brought charges under Georgia’s Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations law against 61 activists for their participation in organizing bail funds for Cop City protesters. Prosecutors dropped charges against three of the activists last year, and others are still awaiting trial.

In a slew of other high-profile cases, elected officials have been arrested for aiding migrants being pursued for arrest by ICE agents. Earlier this year, the FBI arrested a judge accused of helping a man use an alternate exit from a courtroom when ICE agents were waiting outside the main door.

In Arizona in 2018, prosecutors famously slapped humanitarian volunteers offering food, shelter, and water to migrants in the desert with federal criminal charges. Border Patrol targeted their faith-based group as a criminal organization. In 2005, activists with the same group faced criminal charges for transporting migrants to receive medical care; the charges were later dismissed.

“It should be terrifying to every person that the U.S., which has long held political prisoners, is ramping up its oppressive tactics,” said Harvey, the California attorney. “And now, with the new funding, ICE will have more money than any policing force in U.S. history to build a gulag system filled with localized versions of ‘Alligator Alcatrazes’ to cage immigrants and political dissidents.”

Edited by bolverk
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Posted
1 hour ago, DaggerHorns said:

Why are people wanting so badly for ICE to have entered schools and deported minors?

You're latching onto this like a dog with a bone and refusing to address what's happening. Seemingly in bad faith. 

A father had his window smashed out and dragged out of his car while driving his daughter to school - I guess that doesn't count either then? Is your problem that rhetoric is too aggressive or something?

Because if THAT is your problem, then boy howdy, wow.

Posted

 

16 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You're latching onto this like a dog with a bone and refusing to address what's happening. Seemingly in bad faith. 

A father had his window smashed out and dragged out of his car while driving his daughter to school - I guess that doesn't count either then? Is your problem that rhetoric is too aggressive or something?

Because if THAT is your problem, then boy howdy, wow.

Not in school

Not a minor arrested/deported

boy howdy, wow!

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Posted
43 minutes ago, DaggerHorns said:

 

Not in school

Not a minor arrested/deported

boy howdy, wow!

TBH you seem to be the only person actively cheering on people getting arrested/deported specifically at a school. ICE has come for minors at little league practice, and deported minors and separated them from their parents in the process. That's just as bad, IMO. Your posts seem to think its not a big deal because it doesn't meet your arbitrary criteria.

You are again reverting back to ignoring the facts of reality in favor of beating a point that nobody but you is emphasizing. 

Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Captainant said:

TBH you seem to be the only person actively cheering on people getting arrested/deported specifically at a school.

You are again reverting back to ignoring the facts of reality in favor of beating a point that nobody but you is emphasizing. 

Show me where I was actively cheering.

 

Thats just it. I’ve stated a fact and you have yet to show me otherwise. You are spending time trying to beat my point. No one has proven it to be wrong. I’m worried about it less than you are or you wouldn’t be here. You brought it up and you’re wrong. How does it feel?

You have brought up little league games and a father, which I never introduced into the conversation. You’re arguing with yourself.

Edited by DaggerHorns
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Posted

This one is gonna make DaggerHorns rub one out...

Quote

WASHINGTON, July 22 (Reuters) - An Afghan who moved to the United States after working for the U.S. military in his home country was seized by armed, masked immigration agents, put in a van and taken out of state, attorneys and members of Congress said on Tuesday.
Identified only as Zia by members of Congress and his attorney out of concern for his safety and that of his family, the man had worked as an interpreter for the U.S. military during the war in Afghanistan.

He was in the United States legally and was arrested after an appointment in Connecticut related to his application for a green card under a program to protect people who worked for U.S. forces, according to human-rights advocates, his attorney and members of Congress.

"What happened to him is the worst kind of abhorrent violation of basic decency," Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut told reporters on a call with advocates to draw attention to the case of Zia and at least two other Afghans who worked for the U.S. and have been seized by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE.

"He actually worked and risked his life in Afghanistan to uphold the values and rights that are central to democracy," Blumenthal said.
Blumenthal and two other Democrats, representatives Jahana Hayes, who serves Zia's district in Connecticut, and Bill Keating, who represents the Massachusetts city where Zia is being held, all pledged to fight for his release.
A judge has issued a temporary stay preventing Zia's removal from the United States, but he remains in detention.
ALLEGATIONS, DENIED BY ATTORNEY
Asked for comment, the Department of Homeland Security said the Afghan national entered the U.S. on October 8, 2024, and is under investigation for a "serious criminal allegation," adding, "All of his claims will be heard by a judge. Any Afghan who fears persecution is able to request relief."
The emailed statement from DHS provided no further details.

Zia's attorney, Lauren Petersen, said he was approved for humanitarian parole in 2024 due to a direct threat from Afghanistan's Taliban rulers. She said he has no criminal history and, when asked about DHS's saying he was under investigation for a "serious criminal allegation," she said she had no understanding of what they were referring to.
Humanitarian parole is a form of temporary permission under American law to be in the country for "urgent humanitarian reasons or significant public benefit," allowing recipients to live and work in the United States.
More than 70,000 Afghans entered the U.S. under former Democratic President Joe Biden's "Operation Allies Welcome" initiative following the Taliban takeover in 2021, according to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.
The Trump administration's immigration crackdown has included mass deportations and reversing "temporary protected status" granted to people already in the U.S. who cannot return to their home countries due to armed conflicts, natural disasters or other extraordinary events.

U.S. agencies have moved to terminate that status for some 14,600 Afghans.
Shawn VanDiver, the founder of #AfghanEvac, the main coalition of veterans and advocacy groups that coordinated resettlements of Afghans with the U.S. government, said on the call with reporters and lawmakers that he was aware of at least two other Afghans detained after being admitted to the United States because they had worked for the U.S. military.
He said his group, and veterans organizations, were working for their release.
"It's about whether this country honors its word to those who risk everything," he said.

 

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Posted
18 hours ago, bolverk said:

This is some fucked up shit.

Basically, it looks like they're trying to make protesting ICE illegal, in plain violation of the First Amendment in many cases, by intentionally conflating opposition to their activities with serious crimes. This is the kind of stuff that dictators do.

And give me a break about "doxing" agents. Pretty soon, some local jurisdiction will make the same argument about regular beat cops, saying their identities should also be shielded from the public for their safety. Imagine the next time you get stopped for a broken taillight or something, and the cop who comes up to your car door is wearing a fucking mask, like in The Watchmen?

  Reveal hidden contents

😷Readers Ask: Can ICE Really Wear Masks? - by Ehsan Zaffar

 

Is this what people want, living in a police state where bullshit laws are enforced based on assumptions and not facts or evidence?

image.thumb.png.27e2aaff6c7e638a0f17a5b4583d24ae.png
https://theintercept.com/2025/07/23/feds-criminalize-protests-masked-ice/
https://archive.is/sQii5

Speaking on Fox News last week, a top official from U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement said the agency was expanding its dragnet for arrests. 

“I think we all know that criminals tend to hang out with criminals,” ICE Deputy Director Madison Sheahan said. “And so when we start to build a case, we’re going to be going after everyone that’s around them. Because these criminals tend to hang out with like-minded people who also happen to be criminals.”

The pledge to broaden arrests came as an immigration sweep that sowed fear across the Los Angeles area has been met by a growing protest movement to stop the raids and arrests.

In addition to arresting hundreds of immigrants across Southern California, the government is targeting a mounting number of people who are responding to the raids or helping protests. Some of those targeted have provided supplies to protesters or tried to identify ICE agents conducting raids in masks and plain clothes.

The remarks from Sheahan, the ICE official, came three days after a federal judge ordered the Trump administration to stop indiscriminate ICE raids in LA. In the order, Judge Maame Ewusi-Mensah Frimpong condemned the administration’s use of a person’s characteristics — like their appearance, accent, or occupation — as a basis for arrest.

“Roving patrols” operating without reasonable suspicion and denying access to lawyers violated the Fourth and the Fifth Amendments, the judge wrote. “What the federal government would have this Court believe — in the face of a mountain of evidence presented in this case — is that none of this is actually happening.”

Now, those accused of helping the anti-ICE movement are facing prosecution or investigation. Earlier this month, a federal grand jury indicted a man after he handed out face shields to people protesting ICE in Los Angeles two days after President Donald Trump deployed the National Guard.

Alejandro Orellana, 29, pleaded not guilty to a charge of conspiracy to aid and abet civil disorders. According to a grand jury indictment, the face shields were “advertised as designed to protect from chemical splashes and flying debris.”

“Alejandro Orellana’s arrest for distributing supplies is an outrageous violation of civil rights and should be a wakeup call to people everywhere,” said California attorney Thomas Harvey.

“This appears to be a targeted, political attack on resistance to a military incursion on our communities,” Harvey said. “Distributing supplies to protesters is not a crime. It’s a critical role to help keep people safe — especially in the face of some of the most violent police repression I’ve seen since the Ferguson uprising.”

In Orellana’s case, an agent from the FBI made a claim similar to the one the ICE deputy would later make to Fox News — that it was assigning criminality to people based on assumptions, not on evidence.

The agent claimed in an affidavit that wearing such gear like the face shields, designed to protect against law enforcement using pepper spray or tear gas, “is not common amongst non-violent, peaceful protesters.” Instead, he argued, the face shield was “the kind of item used by violent agitators to enable them to resist law enforcement and to engage in violence and/or vandalism during a civil disorder.”

Identifying Masked ICE Agents
As part of expanding its definitions of criminal activity to include forms of protest responding to ICE, the government ramped up its efforts to investigate people suspected of providing identifying information about ICE agents.

On July 11, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem released a statement condemning “anarchists and rioters” in Portland who posted flyers with identifying information about ICE agents and said the department would prosecute “those who dox ICE agents to the fullest extent of the law.”

Last month, Sen. Marsha Blackburn, R-Tenn., introduced a bill that would make identifying ICE officers a federal crime.

In another case in May, ICE agents raided the home of a family in Irvine, California, on a criminal search warrant. They were investigating the source of flyers that had been posted around LA earlier this year with identifying information about ICE officers. The government suspected the family’s son was responsible.

Rep. Dave Min, D-Calif., issued a statement after the May raid saying he was “deeply concerned” with news of the raid and had asked federal law enforcement for more information. Min’s office did not respond to questions about whether they had yet received any such information.

Several of the efforts to further criminalize protest flyers or mutual aid have also been used against pro-Palestine student protesters, Cop City activists in Georgia, and people providing water to migrants.

Police charged protesters opposing the construction of the so-called Cop City police training facility with felonies for posting flyers in 2023, The Intercept reported. The activists had posted flyers in a neighborhood where a police officer lived, naming him and alleging that he was connected to the killing earlier that year of Manuel “Tortuguita” Terán. Police shot Tortuguita 57 times, killing the activist during a multiagency raid on the Atlanta Forest protest encampment.

In 2023, prosecutors brought charges under Georgia’s Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations law against 61 activists for their participation in organizing bail funds for Cop City protesters. Prosecutors dropped charges against three of the activists last year, and others are still awaiting trial.

In a slew of other high-profile cases, elected officials have been arrested for aiding migrants being pursued for arrest by ICE agents. Earlier this year, the FBI arrested a judge accused of helping a man use an alternate exit from a courtroom when ICE agents were waiting outside the main door.

In Arizona in 2018, prosecutors famously slapped humanitarian volunteers offering food, shelter, and water to migrants in the desert with federal criminal charges. Border Patrol targeted their faith-based group as a criminal organization. In 2005, activists with the same group faced criminal charges for transporting migrants to receive medical care; the charges were later dismissed.

“It should be terrifying to every person that the U.S., which has long held political prisoners, is ramping up its oppressive tactics,” said Harvey, the California attorney. “And now, with the new funding, ICE will have more money than any policing force in U.S. history to build a gulag system filled with localized versions of ‘Alligator Alcatrazes’ to cage immigrants and political dissidents.”

 

OTOH LA grand juries are (rightly) frequently refusing the US Attorneys efforts to indict ICE protestors.

 

Quote

LA Times - today-

To bystanders at the federal courthouse in downtown Los Angeles, it sounded as though U.S. Atty. Bill Essayli would not take no for an answer.

A prosecutor had the irate Trump administration appointee on speakerphone outside the grand jury room, and his screaming was audible, according to three law enforcement officials aware of the encounter who spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals.
 
The grand jury had just refused to indict someone accused of attacking federal law enforcement officers during protests against the recent immigration raids throughout Southern California, two of the federal officials said.
It was an exceedingly rare outcome after a type of hearing that routinely leads to federal charges being filed.
On the overheard call, according to the three officials, Essayli, 39, told a subordinate to disregard the federal government’s “Justice Manual,” which directs prosecutors to bring only cases they can win at trial. Essayli barked that prosecutors should press on and secure indictments as directed by U.S. Atty. Gen. Pam Bondi, according to the three officials.
Court records show the reason for Essayli’s frustration.
Although his office filed felony cases against at least 38 people for alleged misconduct that either took place during last month’s protests or near the sites of immigration raids, many have been dismissed or reduced to misdemeanor charges.
 
In total, he has secured only seven indictments, which usually need to be obtained no later than 21 days after the filing of a criminal complaint. Three other cases have been resolved via plea deal, records show.
The three officials who spoke to The Times on condition of anonymity said prosecutors have struggled to get several protest-related cases past grand juries, which need only to find probable cause that a crime has been committed in order to move forward. That is a much lower bar than the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard required for a criminal conviction.
 
Five cases have been dismissed without prejudice — meaning they could be refiled — and records show nine have been filed as misdemeanors, which do not require a grand jury indictment to proceed. In some cases, prosecutors reduced charges against defendants to misdemeanors after repeatedly falling short at the grand jury stage, according to the three officials.
Essayli declined to be interviewed for this article. A statement provided by his office on Tuesday accused The Times of spreading “factual inaccuracies and anonymous gossip,” but offered no specifics or further comment in response to questions.
“The U.S. Attorney’s Office will continue working unapologetically to charge all those who assault our agents or impede our federal investigations,” the statement said.
 
Legal experts said Essayli’s low number of indictments raised concerns about the strength of the cases he is filing.
Carley Palmer, a former federal prosecutor in L.A. who is now a partner at Halpern May Ybarra Gelberg, said the grand jury’s repeated rejection of cases was “a strong indication that the priorities of the prosecutor’s office are out of sync with the priorities of the general community.”
Essayli has won indictments in some serious cases, including two where defendants are accused of throwing or planning to throw Molotov cocktails at L.A. law enforcement officers, and a case where defendants allegedly fired a paintball gun at federal police.
 
High-ranking Justice Department officials have repeatedly praised his work.
“My friend, U.S. Attorney Bill Essayli, is a champion for law and order who has done superlative work to prosecute rioters for attacking and obstructing law enforcement in Los Angeles,” Bondi said in a statement to The Times.
 
But legal experts and some of Essayli’s prosecutors say he’s stretching legal limits to serve as President Trump’s attack dog in L.A.
 
“It’s just generally a culture of ‘if Bill asks you to jump, you ask how high,’” said one prosecutor who feared retaliation. “Any case he wants to charge, find a way to make it a yes.”
Questions about Essayli’s effectiveness come at a crucial time for the former California Assembly member. Bondi appointed him in early April, giving him 120 days to serve as interim U.S. attorney until receiving Senate approval. If he is not confirmed by then, a panel of federal judges will have the opportunity to appoint him — or someone else — to the position.
Democratic Sens. Adam Schiff and Alex Padilla of California raised concerns about Essayli’s leadership of the office in interviews with The Times, and a direct approval from the bench is no sure thing. This month, a federal judicial panel blocked Trump’s choice for U.S. attorney in upstate New York after the time limit for Senate confirmation had expired.
 
On Tuesday, another judicial panel declined to appoint New Jersey’s interim federal prosecutor, Alina Habba, one of Trump’s former personal lawyers. Bondi, however, decried the judges for going “rogue,” fired their choice for U.S. attorney and reappointed Habba. Legal experts say the move is unprecedented.
Meghan Blanco, a former federal prosecutor in L.A. who serves as defense counsel to one of the protesters who is facing charges, said the cases are faltering in part because of unreliable information provided by immigration agents claiming to be victims.
“Frankly, they’re not deserving of prosecution,” she said. “What is being alleged isn’t a federal crime, or it simply did not happen.”
 
Blanco represents Jose Mojica, who was accused of pushing a federal officer in Paramount on June 7.
According to an investigation summary of the incident reviewed by The Times, a U.S. Border Patrol officer claimed a man was screaming in his face that he was going to “shoot him,” then punched him. The officer said he and other agents started chasing the man, but were “stopped by two other males,” later identified as Mojica and Bryan Ramos-Brito.
Blanco said she obtained social media videos showing no such chase took place and presented them at Mojica’s first court appearance. The charges were soon dropped.
 
“The agent lied and said he was in hot pursuit of a person who punched him,” Blanco said. “The entirety of the affidavit is false.”
Felony charges against Ramos-Brito and two related defendants, Ashley and Joceline Rodriguez, were also dismissed, though prosecutors refiled misdemeanor cases against them.
Christian Cerna-Camacho, the man who allegedly punched an agent, has been indicted. He has pleaded not guilty, with trial set for next month.

 

 
  • Hook 'Em 5
Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Grand juries actually serving their purpose:  standing between the government and the people.

Yeah.  We're at a whole bunch of "last line of defense" spots, hombre.  That's no bueno.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
Just now, Js1 said:

I assume they'll just move to military tribunals soon enough?  

"Tribunals" of any sort are a middle man.

We're gonna jump to "ICE can arrest anyone, anywhere, at any time, for any reason they make up, and ship your ass to a detention center here or abroad, without telling anyone where you are.  They get to disappear you, on their decision and word alone" REAL quick.  Hint: we're kinda there already, they just need to expand the practice a bit more.

  • Rage+1 1
Posted
4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

"Tribunals" of any sort are a middle man.

We're gonna jump to "ICE can arrest anyone, anywhere, at any time, for any reason they make up, and ship your ass to a detention center here or abroad, without telling anyone where you are.  They get to disappear you, on their decision and word alone" REAL quick.  Hint: we're kinda there already, they just need to expand the practice a bit more.

I meant more towards anyone disrupting ICE, protesting against ICE, etc.  Skip the middle man and just have the military "try" them and then execute them.

Posted
Just now, Js1 said:

I meant more towards anyone disrupting ICE, protesting against ICE, etc.  Skip the middle man and just have the military "try" them and then execute them.

Understood.  What we all need to grasp is that ICE now IS a branch of the military, for all intents and purposes.  They have the third-largest military budget in the world -- I'm not talking about individual military branches, I mean entire countries.  Global defense budget rankings are literally the following: 1) USA, 2) China, 3) ICE and Homeland Security.  They are armed, dressed, and act like a military force.  They answer only to the fuhrer.  They are already actively "disappearing" people who have full legal status in the US.  Nothing and no one is going to stop them.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Understood.  What we all need to grasp is that ICE now IS a branch of the military, for all intents and purposes.  They have the third-largest military budget in the world -- I'm not talking about individual military branches, I mean entire countries.  Global defense budget rankings are literally the following: 1) USA, 2) China, 3) ICE and Homeland Security.  They are armed, dressed, and act like a military force.  They answer only to the fuhrer.  They are already actively "disappearing" people who have full legal status in the US.  Nothing and no one is going to stop them.

You’re just upset because 50 years from now people will be looking at the Mount Rushmore carvings and wondering why Trump’s head is damaged by so many drone hits, and how strikingly perfect the artists got Senator Collins’ furrowed brow. 

Posted

I wonder how many nazis were as tedious as as daggerhorn in their justifications. "They grabbed that child on his way to school, not at school, before sending him to the concentration camp" is some of the lamest sophistry I've ever seen. 

  • Like 1
  • Drool 1
Posted
32 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I wonder how many nazis were as tedious as as daggerhorn in their justifications. "They grabbed that child on his way to school, not at school, before sending him to the concentration camp" is some of the lamest sophistry I've ever seen. 

As is "the part of the school campus that is outside is not the school."

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