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The Senate Trial of Donald J Trump 2020

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6 minutes ago, pacman said:

should we be thankful Trump didn't take a note from his buddy Kim and just have Vindman taken away and killed?

See, he's not an authoritarian.

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1 hour ago, Tuco said:

His twin left with him.  Unsure if he was also fired. 

twin was fired, too.

 

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1 hour ago, pacman said:

should we be thankful Trump didn't take a note from his buddy Kim and just have Vindman taken away and killed?

The only blessing in this -- and seriously, I mean it -- is that Trump is the biggest fucking pussy in the history of the world.  He doesn't have the fucking spine to actually order a hit.  Thank God for that particular Trump character flaw.

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4 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

When the economy finally starts its long awaited decline due to Trump's policies and actions, I think he and his group must still be held accountable.  If he is not in office and the economy fails, then his base will blame whoever is in office and cry that Trump would never have destroyed the economy.  See what you did bringing in this lib?  Bring back Trump.

I think the economy has to fail big while he is in charge.  It clearly has to be his plans and policies at fault.  Then maybe we can start to get that re-birth that  immamac is speaking of, where we go back to true honest representation and equal powers among the 3 branches.  

I don't think the economy will crash before November, or if it does it won't be a hard enough crash to damage him.  It has to be lots of tremors and quakes to wake everyone up to the problem.  All markets need to show decline under his watch, and they will.  Yes, environment, immigration, healthcare, and all else are being ravaged by this administration, but it's the economy that keeps the base in line.  Everything he is doing in the way of deregulation and tearing down ACA all leads to less costs for corporations, thus bigger returns on stocks.  It all serves the economy, the short term economy.

It doesn't have to be some return to years of another Great Depression.  But it does have to be significant enough to wake everyone from this malaise.  Dare I say it needs to be ledge-worthy?

It took decades to build this culture, starting in earnest with Reagan and Gingrich.  It won't be destroyed in 4 years of horrid presidency.  It will take another 4 years for the brutal results to come clear, to show the utter failure of this philosophy of greed over justice and equality.  And Trump needs to be behind the wheel so he and his supporters/enablers can take full responsibility for the collapse.  Then we stand a better chance of restructuring.  Quite the juxtaposition, to allow the devil to retain his seat in order to defeat he and the forces that put him there.  To pay the consequences for actions that were undoubtedly his.  

The achilles heel of your argument is Fox News and the fact the the GOP is now a full blown cult.   Even if we go into a major depression while Trump is in office, it will never be his fault.  It will be the dems fault. And because of Fox News, 40-50% of the population will believe it.  He can do absolutely no wrong.  Joe Walsh has a WashPo Oped  about how the GOP is a cult.  He talks to GOP supporters who believe that Trump has NEVER told a lie, never golfs, the trillion dollar deficit is fake. There will never be a moment of “taking full responsibility” or “waking people up”.  Fox will make sure of that...and it will work.

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10 minutes ago, Horn Dog said:

 Even if we go into a major depression while Trump is in office, it will never be his fault.  It will be the fault of others. The others can take any form in addition to Democrats as long as they are identified as 'not us.'

FIF me.

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if there wasn't a schism between the white house and the military I bet there is now

Yeah right. They may furrow a brow here or there at best.

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The achilles heel of your argument is Fox News and the fact the the GOP is now a full blown cult.   Even if we go into a major depression while Trump is in office, it will never be his fault.  It will be the dems fault. And because of Fox News, 40-50% of the population will believe it.  He can do absolutely no wrong.  Joe Walsh has a WashPo Oped  about how the GOP is a cult.  He talks to GOP supporters who believe that Trump has NEVER told a lie, never golfs, the trillion dollar deficit is fake. There will never be a moment of “taking full responsibility” or “waking people up”.  Fox will make sure of that...and it will work.

They are not 40-50 percent of the population. They are that range of the non-suppressed voting population.

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The good thing for Vindmen is that they aren't really fired.  They're both Army officers and will remain so.  They just are removed from the NSC detail.  Doubt that entailed any extra pay or anything.  Plus they don't have to go to work with a shitgibbon every day. 

I see Sondland got the axe, also.

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22 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The good thing for Vindmen is that they aren't really fired.  They're both Army officers and will remain so.  They just are removed from the NSC detail.  Doubt that entailed any extra pay or anything.  Plus they don't have to go to work with a shitgibbon every day. 

I see Sondland got the axe, also.

Bill Taylor stepped down from the embassy in Ukraine in January, but his clock at the State Department is ticking. I expect him to retire as Yovanovitch did. Fiona Hill had already left and was returning to the Brookings Institute when she testified. Kurt Volker resigned as did Timothy Morrison.

George Kent, Jessica Williams, Laura Cooper, David Hale, and David Holmes status is uncertain as far as I know.

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8 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Forgive me if I'm mixing you up with another Surly person, but didn't you refer to some French horn player/bassoonist w/respect to the Prayer Breakfast? I can't remember the person's name but it had to do with a puppet master type of situation. If that was you, does the book above talk about that at all? Or is there another resource discussing him? I have a library trip planned this weekend, and may see if they have materials.

 

If it wasn't you, sorry for the mixup but I am still going to look for that book.

I'm quoting myself, but I finally remembered the name of the french horn guy--Arthur Brookes.

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On 2/6/2020 at 5:21 PM, Brisketexan said:

Finland doesn't need a shitload of complex weapons.  Just a few rifles, properly sighted in....

00-simohayha.jpg

 

I'll send 'em a few Academy gift cards, and the Russians will be fucked.

Good thing they’re white so they can leave the store with their arsenals and not catch any grief.

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14 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

You are completely wrong.

He was doing good until he made that assertion. 

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17 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Now is the time for all good citizens to come to the aid of their country:

Another journalist (a Chechen blogger critical of the pro Russian president) was stabbed and killed in France this week in an apparent hit job. How long before the journalists and critics here disappear?

You mean other than Jamal Khashoggi?

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14 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yes now lie = exaggeration ? $2,500 for every family is not an exaggeration it was wrong, and he shouldn't have been touting something with that economic affect on millions of families if it wasn't known to be true, he made it dozens of times on the campaign trail. Jesus, is honesty like holy water to you ?  The man lied.  END OF STORY.

Lets really blow your mind , google his speech about stopping, arresting, and immediately returning illegals at the border.. no wai he did that right ?

 

Who pays for tariffs again? China right?

And the wall? That's Mexico?

 

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On 2/8/2020 at 12:47 AM, Grade of D as in David said:

Who pays for tariffs again? China right?

And the wall? That's Mexico?

 

And yet another yeah but but but........  It doesn't excuse Trumps lies (bolded, but you'll ignore my agreement), but the complete, and utter denial that Mr. Obama lied (multiple times) on his own campaign trail, and in office is now being called "exaggeration" is a perfect example of the hypocrisy, and selective outrage exhibited here daily.  

EDIT:  Of course you did Tom, honesty, and self reflection isn't real high on your totem pole.

 

Of course truth pisses you off Dirk Dick......

Edited by Onboard 2.0

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7 hours ago, Grade of D as in David said:

You mean other than Jamal Khashoggi?

Yes, not to diminish the connections between this Administration and his murder nor that he was an American, but events that occur in the US and US soil. Perhaps I should reconsider that though? Russia goes after critics that flee to countries that have a more open society, perhaps America will be likewise. If Trump tries to beat Putin's number, it's going to be ugly.

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1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And yet another yeah but but but........  It doesn't excuse Trumps lies (bolded, but you'll ignore my agreement), but the complete, and utter denial that Mr. Obama lied (multiple times) on his own campaign trail, and in office is now being called "exaggeration" is a perfect example of the hypocrisy, and selective outrage exhibited here daily.  

EDIT:  Of course you did Tom, honesty, and self reflection isn't real high on your totem pole.

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24 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

just to be clear, IMpotus has admitted guilt to everything he was impeached for ?

You forget that the goalposts have been moved to the "it happened, but it's fine" stage of this shitshow.

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3 hours ago, Captainant said:

You forget that the goalposts have been moved to the "it happened, but it's fine" stage of this shitshow.

Well if we're not going to take away the Astros and Red Sox World Series wins (and Altuve's MVP), why would we remove our president?

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How coincidental. Elaine was also at the "Acquittal Celebration" the President held with GOP leaders, sitting with her husband.

 

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2 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

How coincidental. Elaine was also at the "Acquittal Celebration" the President held with GOP leaders, sitting with her husband.

 

Yeah, that's weird man.  What impeccable timing!  Surely it's all on the up and up though.  Surely.

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On 2/14/2020 at 1:55 PM, tx 3 putt said:

just to be clear, IMpotus has admitted guilt to everything he was impeached for ?

So have the senators who acquitted him. 

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On 1/26/2020 at 9:43 PM, washparkhorn said:

I would be worried about the Bolton Trap. 

Get the trial done. If there needs to be another investigation, so be it. But don't go in blind with Bolton. Know what he is going to say - if you rely on him at all. I wouldn't after the mess he and his neocon friends sold the country on with the war with Iraq. He is not a friend of Democrats in the Senate based on his past conflict with them. 

Never trust Neocons - never. 

 

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2 minutes ago, washparkhorn said:

Never trust Neocons - never.

His predecessor's comment from the article:

“It’s inconceivable to me that if I had firsthand knowledge of a gross abuse of presidential power, that I would withhold my testimony,” Rice said. “I would feel like I was shamefully violating my oath that I took to support and defend the Constitution.”

Bolton has no shame and no guilt because his conscience is flawed.

His comment regarding having a student deferment followed by his joining the Maryland Air National Guard to avoid the draft: "I confess I had no desire to die in a Southeast Asian rice paddy. I considered the war in Vietnam already lost....Looking back, I am not terribly proud of this calculation..."

Words are cheap Mr. Bolton. Actions speak a lot louder. Your actions are cowardly.

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On 2/21/2020 at 6:53 AM, washparkhorn said:

Never trust Neocons - never. 

That puff piece does not say what the headline claims it does.

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3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

That puff piece does not say what the headline claims it does.

It really doesn't. 

At one time, the Federalist Society was a nice counterbalance to liberalism in academia.

Like most things "conservative," it has gone completely off the rails.

There is one nugget of main truth there:

Quote

“People can argue about what I should have said and what I should have done,” Bolton said at Vanderbilt University Wednesday night during a forum with his predecessor Susan Rice, according to ABC News. “I will bet you a dollar right here and now my testimony would have made no difference to the ultimate outcome.”

 

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Well, yes, there wouldn't have been enough Republican senators to get to removal even with footage of Trump murdering Adam Schiff, so yes, I'd say that's true.

What's really stupid about that comment is that Bolton thinks it says something to bet a dollar (big gambler, that Bolton) on something that could never be proven.

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No, Bolton's testimony wouldn't have stopped Senate Republicans from covering for a criminal President. It just would've strengthened the record of their own corruption for the sake of history. 

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And it would have given GOP Senators time to start breaking down Bolton's credibility (more aggressively than Trump), disproving his testimony/book, and generally sending the dogs after Bolton.  As it stands, other than his little leak last week, he's been relatively off the radar to all but the most ardent watchers of all this.  Trump also fell into Bolton's next trap by announcing he would block the book's publishing because it was all classified materials.  But Trump earlier claimed it was all lies.  And the Senate was ready to pounce on Bolton as lying under oath, not disseminating classified information at a public trial. 

We know this because the former DNI head had indicated he supplied the pertinent information to the appropriate members of Congress so that if Bolton were to say something that conflicted with that, they would know it was a lie.  And if he testified to that same effect, they could marry that with their DNI provided intel and see what Bolton was telling the truth.  They would have verifiable information to legitimize/delegitimize Bolton, not just a manuscript of a book.  Of course, we know now the DNI head was fired because he did this.  But his report to Congressional members is still in their hands.  And any one of them can hold it up alongside Bolton's manuscript once Bolton comes out of the woodwork to address the public, or still be called before a House committee.  And with that, they can see what's true and what's untrue.  The GOP Senate will still say the DNI report was bullshit, and hence-Bolton's book is bullshit.  But it would beg the question---and some sacrificial Republican Senator is gonna have to answer it, "The DNI report was prepared for Congress long after Bolton left the White House.  It's literally impossible that the report matches up perfectly with Bolton's story of what happened and when.  How do you explain these two versions synch up and show what the President did?"  

And then yeah, afterwards...Trump supporters will say the DNI leaked it to John Bolton and his publishers so he could make a book (maybe a movie) out of it.  Here we are again...

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mpu


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