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El Diablo

Texas And The Death Penalty

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I think it's rather twisted to execute anyone.

I didn't used to feel that way.  But I have learned a lot about people in the interim and the power to change profoundly.

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4 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

You think it’d be twisted to execute known evil people inside a year?  And don’t respond with parsing the word known. 

I think allowing the state the power to execute its citizens is in general twisted so yes.

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9 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

This isn’t about vengeance or bloodlust no matter how many times HP writes an emotional novel about it. 

1). You're projecting. Everything that you have posted has been 100% rooted in emotion and emotionalism. If you took out the emotionalism of your posts, you'd wind up with a white screen.

2). What I've said about it hasn't a drop of influence over what TwiceHorn, hobbes, or anyone else has said to you about this feeble nonsense that you've spewed onto this discussion. They knew it was verbal effluvia before I had word one to say about it.

3). Yes, it absolutely is about bloodlust and I haven't given a single "emotional novel" on that topic. What I've given is reason and fact-based: you have not defended your claims a single iota about this not being based on a lust for blood. You have danced around this topic since you started, and all you've done in "defense" of your claim is simply to restate it without giving specifics as to how to overcome the very obvious problems of implementing such an abhorrent policy. You've literally been absolutely wrong about absolutely everything you've said regarding this topic, and my emotional temperature has had jack shit to do with it. You knew better than to puke out such garbled drivel. You aren't advancing a serious policy proposal, you aren't advocating a pathway of how to arrive at same, you aren't engaging in a serious dialogue, you are not defending what you say with research and analysis supported by peer review; you are just hooting.

If you were as certain as you pretend to be that what you "propose" would pan out the way you say it will, and that it would serve as a societal good, you would illustrate the why's and how's, and you'd do so with evidence. You don't do any of that. And if you're going to come back at that comment with "I said it was a fantasy," then leave it there because such an admission is also a confession to its pointlessness and uselessness.

Edited by hpslugga

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12 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

It’s been explained several times in this thread the reason for lengthy appeals.

Im asking in your fantasy world why not just make murder non parole and don’t allow them to give any media appearances?  That seems like a simpler solution than the death penalty which still leaves the chance that you get it wrong and kill an innocent person.

It hasn’t been explained why appeals process has extended DR stays by 2.5x in last 35 years, and why that is at all logical in certain known cases. 

On your second paragraph I need to give that more thought. That’s logical. But doesn’t do anything with respect to cost savings. 

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5 hours ago, hpslugga said:

1). You're projecting. Everything that you have posted has been 100% rooted in emotion and emotionalism. If you took out the emotionalism of your posts, you'd wind up with a white screen.

2). What I've said about it hasn't a drop of influence over what TwiceHorn, hobbes, or anyone else has said to you about this feeble nonsense that you've spewed onto this discussion. They knew it was verbal effluvia before I had word one to say about it.

3). Yes, it absolutely is about bloodlust and I haven't given a single "emotional novel" on that topic. What I've given is reason and fact-based: you have not defended your claims a single iota about this not being based on a lust for blood. You have danced around this topic since you started, and all you've done in "defense" of your claim is simply to restate it without giving specifics as to how to overcome the very obvious problems of implementing such an abhorrent policy. You've literally been absolutely wrong about absolutely everything you've said regarding this topic, and my emotional temperature has had jack shit to do with it. You knew better than to puke out such garbled drivel. You aren't advancing a serious policy proposal, you aren't advocating a pathway of how to arrive at same, you aren't engaging in a serious dialogue, you are not defending what you say with research and analysis supported by peer review; you are just hooting.

If you were as certain as you pretend to be that what you "propose" would pan out the way you say it will, and that it would serve as a societal good, you would illustrate the why's and how's, and you'd do so with evidence. You don't do any of that. And if you're going to come back at that comment with "I said it was a fantasy," then leave it there because such an admission is also a confession to its pointlessness and uselessness.

Ok. Didn’t read a word after “emotional”. You’re a windbag. And I’m as calm on this matter as possible. 

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4 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Ok. Didn’t read a word after “emotional”. You’re a windbag. And I’m as calm on this matter as possible. 

jennifer lawrence ok GIF

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So, Abel Ochoa of Dallas is set to be executed tomorrow.  His guilt is certain and his crime horrific.  But he's been appealing in relation to the punishment stage for the last 15 years. https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/man-convicted-of-killing-5-family-members-in-oak-cliff-set-for-execution/2305335/

This one hits me harder than most because I was called to serve on his jury.  All I did was fill out a 20 page questionnaire, but I got to look at the man.  And I was also freshly sober, or relatively so and had a serious there but for the grace of God go I moment.

Filing out that questionnaire was when my opposition to the death penalty solidified.

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On 1/17/2020 at 5:26 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

Better for everyone deserving of the death penalty to serve life in prison than for the state to wrongly execute one innocent person. 

I agree. 

Meanwhile, here's an argument that I've heard in favor of the death penalty.  "Sure, we've executed innocent people.  And penicillin kills people every day, but saves many, many more.  Surely, we shouldn't do away with penicillin".   

Dennis Prager said that, IIRC.  
 

I think it's bullshit, but at least it's an argument. 

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17 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

I agree. 

Meanwhile, here's an argument that I've heard in favor of the death penalty.  "Sure, we've executed innocent people.  And penicillin kills people every day, but saves many, many more.  Surely, we shouldn't do away with penicillin".   

Dennis Prager said that, IIRC.  
 

I think it's bullshit, but at least it's an argument. 

Horrible analogy.  

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On 1/19/2020 at 9:53 AM, Dr. Beeper said:

It hasn’t been explained why appeals process has extended DR stays by 2.5x in last 35 years, and why that is at all logical in certain known cases. 

On your second paragraph I need to give that more thought. That’s logical. But doesn’t do anything with respect to cost savings. 

That is so cute that you think the administration in charge of running prisons wants to lower costs.   Prisons are like hotels.  They don't make money with vacant cells.  You ever wonder why our West Texas immigrant tents with water bottles and chef boyarde cans are more expensive than the Plaza Athenee in NYC.  

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16 minutes ago, Nivek said:

That is so cute that you think the administration in charge of running prisons wants to lower costs.   Prisons are like hotels.  They don't make money with vacant cells.  You ever wonder why our West Texas immigrant tents with water bottles and chef boyarde cans are more expensive than the Plaza Athenee in NYC.  

This is true of private prisons, but they aren't all private.  Not even close to a majority.

They are a giant suck on taxpayer resources.

There is the institutional self-preservation thing at work though, which is why BOP never wants to release anyone, even when Congress and the courts tell them to.  This is really bizarre to me, but on countless occasions, the BOP seems to want to exercise its independent judgment about when to release people when they aren't the elected officials (to pay any price for it), and it isn't their job description.

Edited by TwiceHorn

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On 1/19/2020 at 9:53 AM, Dr. Beeper said:

It hasn’t been explained why appeals process has extended DR stays by 2.5x in last 35 years, and why that is at all logical in certain known cases. 

On your second paragraph I need to give that more thought. That’s logical. But doesn’t do anything with respect to cost savings. 

I will explain why death row appeals take longer than they used to.  Because the Supreme Court keeps making it harder to impose the death penalty.  A required, separate penalty phase tried by a jury is a new thing.  No death penalty for mentally retarded is new.  No DP for juvenile offenders is new. 

The Supreme Court has said not only do we need to be really certain of guilt and fairness in the proceeding, but we also have to be doubly sure that the defendant deserves the death penalty and has the opportunity to plead for mercy.

All of this creates new grounds for post-conviction litigation.  All of these things were necessary to make the death penalty constitutional again after Furman v. Georgia.

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17 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This is true of private prisons, but they aren't all private.  Not even close to a majority.

They are a giant suck on taxpayer resources.

There is the institutional self-preservation thing at work though, which is why BOP never wants to release anyone, even when Congress and the courts tell them to.

They are a jobs program, fewer prisons = fewer workers = fewer admin.   They are getting paid one way or another.   

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You think it’d be twisted to execute known evil people inside a year?  And don’t respond with parsing the word known. 


How would you implement your “plan”?

Specifically, are you just saying that we should amend all state and federal laws to state that in cases of convictions with death penalty sentences that there should be zero appeals allowed? That’s the only way o can think of to execute someone within a year.

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build a wall around Norman Oklahoma and send them there.  It already is a prison colony so no one local will notice. 

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Another reason I think the majority of"Christians" are fucked up to the point of mental illness.  Could Jesus be any more clear on his stance of turning the other cheek?  Yet, Christians, almost to a man, LOVE the death penalty.  

Hypocritical cunts, with an Orange Cunt as their true savior.  

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23 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Another reason I think the majority of"Christians" are fucked up to the point of mental illness.  Could Jesus be any more clear on his stance of turning the other cheek?  Yet, Christians, almost to a man, LOVE the death penalty.  

Hypocritical cunts, with an Orange Cunt as their true savior.  

You don’t know what you are talking about. Jesus was a huge fan of the death penalty. Even bill hicks knew this. 

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1 hour ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Another reason I think the majority of"Christians" are fucked up to the point of mental illness.  Could Jesus be any more clear on his stance of turning the other cheek?  Yet, Christians, almost to a man, LOVE the death penalty.  

Oh, and...

FT_18.06.08_DeathPenalty_gender-racial-d

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3 hours ago, scottsins said:

 


How would you implement your “plan”?

Specifically, are you just saying that we should amend all state and federal laws to state that in cases of convictions with death penalty sentences that there should be zero appeals allowed? That’s the only way o can think of to execute someone within a year.

 

Haven’t thought about how I’d implement. 

Sure. 

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1 hour ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Another reason I think the majority of"Christians" are fucked up to the point of mental illness.  Could Jesus be any more clear on his stance of turning the other cheek?  Yet, Christians, almost to a man, LOVE the death penalty.  

Hypocritical cunts, with an Orange Cunt as their true savior.  

We’re all hypocrites. Even you. 

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Mr. Ochoa is now deceased. Killed 5 in 2002.

 

HOUSTON (AP) A Texas man was executed Thursday evening for the shooting deaths of his wife, two children and two other relatives during a drug-fueled rage nearly 18 years ago.

Abel Ochoa, 47, received a lethal injection just after 6 p.m. Thursday in Huntsville.

Prosecutors say Ochoa was high on crack cocaine when he started shooting inside his Dallas home in August 2002.

He was sentenced to death for the slayings of his wife and his 7-year-old daughter.

Also killed were his 9-month-old daughter, his father-in-law and a sister-in-law.

Ochoa was the second inmate put to death this year in Texas and the third in the U.S.

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Morally I don't have a problem putting a person to death whom committed a horrific crime. My problem is that I simply do not trust the police to be unbiased. For me politically I am against the death penalty for two reasons.  First is it is so fucking expensive to kill somebody, so fiscally it's not cost effective, which drives a lot of my decision making on policy.  Secondly killing one innocent person is a cost that is too great, for revenge.

Shit look at the cluster fuck that is the Rodney Reed case, to sew doubt.  Black guy is screwing white police officer in small town's finance.  Fiance turn's up dead, and not a glance at the police officer fiance and the die is cast. Reed may have indeed murdered Stacey Stites, but why test only part of the evidence?  Reed lies about fuckng a white police officers fiance in the Bastrop Texas jail. He was likely scared shitless. I was once assaulted by an off duty DPS office on 6th street and he was hauled away and never booked. So my perception of police honesty and morals is probably exactly where it should be. I had others not stepped in and made it clear I did not throw a single punch I would have likely been a crack dealer by the time is was over.  Still wish I had one punched that dumb ass, who couldn't fight but I knew I would be jailed in he would be free. So a face full of mace, and a near wrongful arrest was my sentence for being assaulted by a public servant.  

Could you honest feel good about putting Rodney Reed to death? Could you do it with a sense of moral certainty?

10 Facts you should know about Rodney Reed case - Innocence Project

 

 

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