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Final Big 12 road trips


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@Al_4_ISU you seem to feel frustrated with Texas fans and indicate your fans will take it out on ours, and you point to Texas’s greed for more money in the SEC. The fans don’t see a dime of that money. In fact, ticket prices and donation requirements will probably increase for Texas fans. 
Most Texas fans who are excited about the change care way more about quality of schedule, and perception of prestige nationally (and accompany media hype). ¬†As an ISU fan, maybe you never got nauseous over your schedule. Regardless of if we are good or bad any given season, seeing a home schedule of crap OOC x 2 in most seasons, followed by 4 of ISU, OSU, TCU, WV, Baylor, Tech, KU, KSU. ūü§ģ Do you ever wonder what it would be like playing an SEC or Big 10 schedule, where you non-marquee conference opponents would be teams like Tennessee, Ole Miss, Arkansas, aggy, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Mich St‚Ķ.not to mention 1-2 annual games vs blue blood type programs? As much as I don‚Äôt care for Nebraska and aggy, losing them was irreparable for the Big12. Adding TCU, WV, Cincinnati, Memphis, BYU, or whoever was not going to bring prestige, guarantee the conf champ a spot in the playoff, or get fans (particularly Texas and OU) excited about the schedule year in and year out.¬†
 

Please explain to your farmer friends so they don’t chuck urine bombs at Longhorn children. 

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6 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Do you ever wonder what it would be like playing an SEC or Big 10 schedule, where you non-marquee conference opponents would be teams like Tennessee, Ole Miss, Arkansas, aggy, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Mich St….not to mention 1-2 annual games vs blue blood type programs?

ICWYDT bravo

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

@Al_4_ISU you seem to feel frustrated with Texas fans and indicate your fans will take it out on ours, and you point to Texas’s greed for more money in the SEC. The fans don’t see a dime of that money. In fact, ticket prices and donation requirements will probably increase for Texas fans. 
Most Texas fans who are excited about the change care way more about quality of schedule, and perception of prestige nationally (and accompany media hype). ¬†As an ISU fan, maybe you never got nauseous over your schedule. Regardless of if we are good or bad any given season, seeing a home schedule of crap OOC x 2 in most seasons, followed by 4 of ISU, OSU, TCU, WV, Baylor, Tech, KU, KSU. ūü§ģ Do you ever wonder what it would be like playing an SEC or Big 10 schedule, where you non-marquee conference opponents would be teams like Tennessee, Ole Miss, Arkansas, aggy, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Mich St‚Ķ.not to mention 1-2 annual games vs blue blood type programs? As much as I don‚Äôt care for Nebraska and aggy, losing them was irreparable for the Big12. Adding TCU, WV, Cincinnati, Memphis, BYU, or whoever was not going to bring prestige, guarantee the conf champ a spot in the playoff, or get fans (particularly Texas and OU) excited about the schedule year in and year out.¬†
 

Please explain to your farmer friends so they don’t chuck urine bombs at Longhorn children. 

What really chaps our ass is that you see ISU, TCU, OSU, KSU, WV, etc as less than Ole Miss, Iowa, Minnesota, and Michigan State.  Thats what is so god damn infuriating for these fanbases.  The idea that we're somehow less desirable than a bunch of other programs that aren't that great either.

Don't worry about farmers, they'll be in the field.

Edited by Al_4_ISU
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11 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

What really chaps our ass is that you see ISU, TCU, OSU, KSU, WV, etc as less than Ole Miss, Iowa, Minnesota, and Michigan State. 

I don't. I have rooted for Iowa State since the Troy Davis days, and moreso once I married into an Iowa family.

The success y'all have been having is awesome and shows how much it matters to have a coach who knows what he is doing. I would love to see y'all get into the B1G because you deserve a seat at that table. You would instantly be in the top half of the conference. And Iowa and Nebraska would react exactly the way aggy is reacting right now.

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52 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

It's the opportunity to participate at the main level of the sport, if that wasn't clear.

At the end of the day, if we're playing somewhere that can realistically make the playoff, we're all pretty well fine with that.  I'm not bothered by schools who are worth more making more.  I'm bothered that we might be arbitrarily getting tossed off the island while the Wake Forests and Boston Colleges and Purdues of the world sleep tight.  There are all these schools and fanbases that don't fucking care, and don't fucking show up, and don't fucking matter, and they're all going to be fucking fine because the more important schools they've partnered with are fine with the arrangement.

It doesn't bother me one bit that Texas and OU make more money than Iowa State and Kansas.  They should.  It bothers me that a private school with 6,000 students and a 31,000 seat stadium that hasn't had a Top 25 finish in over a decade has no concern about having a seat at the table while a large public university with a pre-season top 10 football team, a 62,000 seat stadium, and AAU academics is sweating in the corner.  

You equate Iowa State to Wake Forest or BC or Purdue, and they're just not equivalent.  Or, more precisely, the leagues are not equivalent.

You're right that all three leagues have two reasonably dominant programs--Texas/OU, Clemson/Florida State, Michigan/Ohio State.  But the big difference is that the Big 10 then has Penn State, Wisconsin, and Michigan State.  Those are programs that are routinely in the Top 25 and that generate some level of national interest.  Add to that Indiana, Illinois, Maryland, Iowa, and Minnesota and you have three additional programs that are the flagship school in populated states.

The ACC has the same thing.  Aside from Clemson and Florida State, they've got UNC and UVA and Virginia Tech and Miami.

The Big 12 doesn't have that.  It's Texas, OU, and . . . who?  Nobody gives a shit about Baylor or TCU or Tech outside their alumni base, which is limited to Texas.  Nobody gives a shit about Okie State outside its alumni base in a small state.  Okie State and Iowa State are both small-state schools (small states relative to Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio, North Carolina, Michigan, and Virginia) that aren't close to the most popular teams in their states.  And then you have Kansas, which is the 36th-largest state and isn't growing.

There's a reason that the early indications were that the Big 12 wasn't going to get a good television deal in the next round of negotiations.  It's not a good conference compared to the Big 10 and the ACC.  That's not me talking--that's Fox and ESPN.  And they're talking with their money.

And if you can't see the plain differences between Iowa State and Purdue (and by the way--Indiana is more than double the size of Iowa) or Iowa State and Boston College (and, by further way, the Boston MSA is 60% larger than Iowa), I just don't know what to tell you.

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18 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

You equate Iowa State to Wake Forest or BC or Purdue, and they're just not equivalent.  Or, more precisely, the leagues are not equivalent.

You're right that all three leagues have two reasonably dominant programs--Texas/OU, Clemson/Florida State, Michigan/Ohio State.  But the big difference is that the Big 10 then has Penn State, Wisconsin, and Michigan State.  Those are programs that are routinely in the Top 25 and that generate some level of national interest.  Add to that Indiana, Illinois, Maryland, Iowa, and Minnesota and you have three additional programs that are the flagship school in populated states.

The ACC has the same thing.  Aside from Clemson and Florida State, they've got UNC and UVA and Virginia Tech and Miami.

The Big 12 doesn't have that.  It's Texas, OU, and . . . who?  Nobody gives a shit about Baylor or TCU or Tech outside their alumni base, which is limited to Texas.  Nobody gives a shit about Okie State outside its alumni base in a small state.  Okie State and Iowa State are both small-state schools (small states relative to Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio, North Carolina, Michigan, and Virginia) that aren't close to the most popular teams in their states.  And then you have Kansas, which is the 36th-largest state and isn't growing.

There's a reason that the early indications were that the Big 12 wasn't going to get a good television deal in the next round of negotiations.  It's not a good conference compared to the Big 10 and the ACC.  That's not me talking--that's Fox and ESPN.  And they're talking with their money.

And if you can't see the plain differences between Iowa State and Purdue (and by the way--Indiana is more than double the size of Iowa) or Iowa State and Boston College (and, by further way, the Boston MSA is 60% larger than Iowa), I just don't know what to tell you.

Those places are full of people who don't watch college sports.

People in Boston aren't revolving their Saturdays around BC football.  They have like 30,000 people at their games.

The entire states of Iowa and Oklahoma eat, sleep, breathe, and die on college football.  Even in Indiana, no one really gives a shit outside of Notre Dame.

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5 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Those places are full of people who don't watch college sports.

People in Boston aren't revolving their Saturdays around BC football.  They have like 30,000 people at their games.

The entire states of Iowa and Oklahoma eat, sleep, breathe, and die on college football.  Even in Indiana, no one really gives a shit outside of Notre Dame.

You should somewhat direct your anger at Nebraska, Colorado and A&M.   When the Big 12 was "12" those programs were valued #3, #4 and #5 in some order.   If you want to take the lazy narrative that Texas forced them out, that's their hope and your prerogative, but the reality is each of those schools made a decision they thought in their best interest.  Same as Texas and OU now. But a conference that holds > 50% of its "value" in 2 schools simply can't survive.    In hindsight, when Texas, OU, Nebraska, CU, KSU & A&M & Tech were all pretty consistent top 25 teams (with multiple in top 10 every year) in the late 90's and early 2000's (the outright best football conference for a good stretch) maybe the Big 12 should have poached a couple of other powers then.  But I don't blame anyone for not having the foresight at that time.

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Although I vowed not to go to TCU anymore since LHF puts us in the literal last row of the upper deck, not to mention the results of the games, I'll be in Fort Worth and Waco.

 

Going to attempt to get to Allen Fieldhouse for the last hoops trip to KU.

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13 minutes ago, Skipper said:

In hindsight, when Texas, OU, Nebraska, CU, KSU & A&M & Tech were all pretty consistent top 25 teams (with multiple in top 10 every year) in the late 90's and early 2000's (the outright best football conference for a good stretch) maybe the Big 12 should have poached a couple of other powers then.  But I don't blame anyone for not having the foresight at that time.

The Big12 leadership has always been shitty.

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1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

What really chaps our ass is that you see ISU, TCU, OSU, KSU, WV, etc as less than Ole Miss, Iowa, Minnesota, and Michigan State.  Thats what is so god damn infuriating for these fanbases.  The idea that we're somehow less desirable than a bunch of other programs that aren't that great either.

Don't worry about farmers, they'll be in the field.

This was always my argument to aggy, "WTF is special about beating Ole Miss, Miss State, and Arky?". 

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1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Those places are full of people who don't watch college sports.

People in Boston aren't revolving their Saturdays around BC football.  They have like 30,000 people at their games.

The entire states of Iowa and Oklahoma eat, sleep, breathe, and die on college football.  Even in Indiana, no one really gives a shit outside of Notre Dame.

You miss my point entirely.  Let's just assume for a minute that Michigan and Ohio State have equal value to Texas and OU.  I disagree with that assumption, but fuck it--let's assume.

Your next four most valuable programs in the Big 10 are probably Penn State, Wisconsin, Michigan State, and Illinois.  After Texas and OU, the most valuable Big 12 programs are probably Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and West Virginia.

Maybe you'll quibble about that ordering.  But whatever.  Are you going to argue with me that Texas Tech is anywhere close to the equivalent to Penn State?  Or that Oklahoma State is the equivalent to Wisconsin?  Oklahoma State plays second-fiddle (by a wide margin) in the 28th-largest state; Wisconsin is the only FBS program in a state that is nearly 2/3rds larger.

That's the big difference between these conferences.  It's not the top two schools.  It's the middle tier that the Big 12 completely lacks.  I'm sorry, but Oklahoma State and Kansas State and Baylor is the equivalent of a bunch of . . . fuck--there is no equivalent in the Big 10.  Northwestern is significantly more valuable than any of those three.

And you don't have to take my word for it.  I'm just some asshole on the message board.  Take the word of Fox Sports, which wasn't going to pay the Big 12 shit.

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3 hours ago, LonghornSean said:

Although I vowed not to go to TCU anymore since LHF puts us in the literal last row of the upper deck, not to mention the results of the games, I'll be in Fort Worth and Waco.

 

Going to attempt to get to Allen Fieldhouse for the last hoops trip to KU.

That’s why I buy road game tickets on the street.

Bernard

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1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

Northwestern is significantly more valuable than any of those three.

This is only the case under the ‚Äėnumber of cable subscribers‚Äô model; under the ‚Äėnew media‚Äô (whatever the fuck that means) model, it‚Äôs hard to argue that NW is a better property than ISU/OSU/TTU.

And the obligatory: aren’t you the dude who like fell into the fire pit or some shit?

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5 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

What really chaps our ass is that you see ISU, TCU, OSU, KSU, WV, etc as less than Ole Miss, Iowa, Minnesota, and Michigan State.  Thats what is so god damn infuriating for these fanbases.  The idea that we're somehow less desirable than a bunch of other programs that aren't that great either.

Don't worry about farmers, they'll be in the field.

Yall have really nice personalities though and we hope we can still be friends. 
 

I’m giving you a hard time, but I really do like ISU, OSU, and to a lesser extent KSU and Tech. Baylor can get fucked because they shouldn’t have been invited in 1996 in the first place. The Big 12 needed more oomph as the #3 and #4 program to replace or upgrade over Nebraska and Aggy. TCU was a major downgrade. In retrospect, I think I would’ve preferred not adding TCU and WV and scheduling more cool OOC opponents. 

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The NIL the straw that broke the camel's back.  I don't blame ou or ut for bolting for $$$ to compete at the highest level.  The only reason they can compete now is the 85/25 limitations that keep Bama, Clemson, Ohio St from signing everyone. 

I do however wish I would have archived all the "Running from traditional rivals" posts that longhorn fans posted when aTm went SEC. 

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7 minutes ago, UncleCharlie said:

I do however wish I would have archived all the "Running from traditional rivals" posts that longhorn fans posted when aTm went SEC. 

You meant this for OU fans right since our traditional rivals are OU, Arkansas and aggy?  

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On 7/28/2021 at 7:53 PM, UncleCharlie said:

I do however wish I would have archived all the "Running from traditional rivals" posts that longhorn fans posted when aTm went SEC. 

Other than Oklahoma we aren’t rivals with anyone from the Big 8 or West Virginia.  Our historical rivals, other than Oklahoma, were all SWC schools.

OG SWC - Arkansas (78 games), aggy (123), Rice (95), Baylor (109), SMU (73), TCU (90)

50’s addition - Tech (69…nice)

70’s addition - Houston (23)

SEC Arkansas/aggy vs B12 Tech/Baylor/TCU

Texas basically traded 3 minor rivalries that we don’t really consider rivalries, for 2 that have some significance in the not too distant past.  Add to the equation that Baylor was raping people and TCU was running a drug ring and most Texas fans I know wanted to distance ourselves from them for a while now.  I feel a little bad for Tech, similar to how a felt about leaving Rice, but it is what it is.

and not to defend the land thieves, but their rivals were Texas, Nebraska, and Okie State.  They’ll get historical rival Mizzou back and keep Texas so their math isn’t too bad but losing Okie State might sting (hopefully they can continue OOC).

SEC Texas/Mizzou vs B12 Okie St/Kansas/K State (Iowa State has only won 7 games ever against the Sooners, being a doormat isn’t a rivalry, he’ll Rice has won 21 against Texas for fuck’s sake).

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On 7/28/2021 at 1:34 PM, Al_4_ISU said:

What really chaps our ass is that you see ISU, TCU, OSU, KSU, WV, etc as less than Ole Miss, Iowa, Minnesota, and Michigan State.  Thats what is so god damn infuriating for these fanbases.  The idea that we're somehow less desirable than a bunch of other programs that aren't that great either.

Don't worry about farmers, they'll be in the field.

Everyone knows fucking a five/six that you've never fucked before is waaaaaaaay more appealing than fucking a five/six that you've fucked hundreds of times. Come on.

Also, for OU/Texas, the teams you listed were the top marquee available home games. ISU at least got to host OU and/or Texas. Now, the Ole Miss or Arkansas teams, equal to top available games before, will be the filler home games, with 1-3 of Bama, Barn, Gata, Georgia, LSU, Tenn, aggy really getting the juices flowing (aggy included b/c they are hyped to that level to some extent plus the enjoyment of putting them back in their place). 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/28/2021 at 8:40 AM, Al_4_ISU said:

I hate to say it, but our fans and WVU fans are going to be absolute dicks to anything in orange.

My daughter called me the actual morning of the media leak, but before the leak. She and her best friend and roommate at medical school were planning an ISU game trip and were trying to decide whether to sit with me and her brother or in the ISU student section (her friend was an athlete at ISU and can get tickets with a phone call to the  AD). They quickly decided the student section would be more enjoyable.

By the end of the day, her friend was highly pissed off at both Texas and OU (this friend’s sister is an athlete at OU lol). She was an active as a student athlete academic leader at ISU and even has a pic in her scrapbook of her snuggling up to a UT student athlete representative at some B12 student athlete conference they were both attending.

I’m not ready to pull the plug on my Ames trip, but we’ll have to wait and see if my daughter will still want to sit in the ISU student section. No way she doesn’t wear burnt orange.

Her roommate had also just broken up that morning with both of the guys she had believing were her boyfriend. It was a drama-filled day.

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On 7/28/2021 at 2:27 PM, Skipper said:

You should somewhat direct your anger at Nebraska, Colorado and A&M. ... each of those schools made a decision they thought in their best interest.  Same as Texas and OU now. But a conference that holds > 50% of its "value" in 2 schools simply can't survive. 

Exactly what Skipper said.  The smaller schools in the Big 12 have focused 100% of their anger on the last two locomotives to give up on pulling the fucking train, and not the numerous other schools (the three you mentioned plus Mizzou) who ACTED ENTIRELY IN THEIR OWN BEST INTEREST AND SPLIT A LONG TIME AGO.  

I have never held any personal ill will toward Oklahoma State, Tech, or Iowa State, but the more I have to listen to hysterical and irrational bullshit about mean ol' greedy Texas, the less I fucking care about the fate of their athletic programs.

 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Paul Wesley said:

Exactly what Skipper said.  The smaller schools in the Big 12 have focused 100% of their anger on the last two locomotives to give up on pulling the fucking train, and not the numerous other schools (the three you mentioned plus Mizzou) who ACTED ENTIRELY IN THEIR OWN BEST INTEREST AND SPLIT A LONG TIME AGO.  

I have never held any personal ill will toward Oklahoma State, Tech, or Iowa State, but the more I have to listen to hysterical and irrational bullshit about mean ol' greedy Texas, the less I fucking care about the fate of their athletic programs.

 

I don't remember exactly how or why the SEC settled on fucking Mizzou but they got lucky as hell and were smart as hell to take it.  Definitely no more value than any of the left behind schools except for maybe KSU and Baylor.

Edited by Skipper
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10 minutes ago, Skipper said:

I don't remember exactly how or why the SEC settled on fucking Mizzou but they got lucky as hell and were smart as hell to take it.  Definitely no more value than any of the left behind schools except for maybe KSU and Baylor.

Pretty sure SEC wanted to keep a numerical balance while simultaneously adding the Texas footprint with the addition of A&M, and it made geographic sense.  Their league expanded to the west.  

Mizzou was in the right place at the right time (their football team was in a good place at the time as well).   I don't know if they'd have been admitted without an Aggie program eager to get out from under the shadow of UT.

 

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2 hours ago, Skipper said:

I don't remember exactly how or why the SEC settled on fucking Mizzou but they got lucky as hell and were smart as hell to take it.  Definitely no more value than any of the left behind schools except for maybe KSU and Baylor.

What?!?!?  These are the least valuable schools left in the Big12.

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