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Bernie Sanders 2020 Watch

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What platform or issues does Trump run on that are remotely Democratic? Is this your best argument? Sanders pulls part half or most of the Democratic Party because he’s actually a liberal progressive.

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3 minutes ago, Dropout said:

Or maybe he was a democrat all his life and switched because he would never win anything as a democrat. I never said they weren’t a private organization or couldn’t rig their primary. Again they are and did just that.

Sanders is doing just fine with or without the D. He doesn’t need you equal footing. He needs the people. And he has them.

So again in case it’s too difficult for you to understand Trump isn’t and didn’t run as a democrat because he would lose bigly. He loves and prefers those unwilling to educate themselves or form an opinion on their own.

So you understand why it's important that a party maintains control over their nomination process, you recognize that it's okay to do that, you acknowledge that Sanders would get a fairer shake if he were a member of the party, and you're still complaining about...what exactly?

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3 minutes ago, Dropout said:

What platform or issues does Trump run on that are remotely Democratic? Is this your best argument? Sanders pulls part half or most of the Democratic Party because he’s actually a liberal progressive.

It's not about Trump running on Democratic ideas or being about them now. It's about the fact that he runs on explicitly not Democratic ideas but you are advocating for political parties not to exert influence on their nomination process which would allow someone who does not represent their ideals and platform to win the nomination. That's the entire point you dunderhead.

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Who is complaining? I merely asked for a fucking break and provided articles when a poster said rigging of the primary didn’t happen. 

And no I don’t understand why it’s important that a party maintain control of anything. The people maintain control based on the individuals running and their platform. When you start saying a party or selected few should have more control than the population well that’s not exactly Democratic is it?

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4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

It's not about Trump running on Democratic ideas or being about them now. It's about the fact that he runs on explicitly not Democratic ideas but you are advocating for political parties not to exert influence on their nomination process which would allow someone who does not represent their ideals and platform to win the nomination. That's the entire point you dunderhead.

If it’s not about that then why bring it up??? You did that not me. Sanders ideals are democratic. More so than the actual party that’s been bought off.

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Bernie ran as a Democrat, yes? After the DNC he reverted to (I).  If DWS rigged it, it's terribly unfair, but not illegal. We are not arguing about legality, but fairness. 

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49 minutes ago, Orca of Peace said:

2008, a rookie backbencher Illiniois Senator beat the more experienced people such as HRC, Chris Dodd, Joe Biden and Bill Richardson. What was his name, anyone remember? 

That was ooooone magic nee-grow....

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https://www.politico.com/magazine/amp/story/2018/08/01/its-bernies-party-now-219153

“This doesn’t mean that he’ll be the next Democratic nominee for president, or even run. It doesn’t mean that his ideas are good (I personally consider them godawful), or that they will make for a salable platform for the Democratic Party (which I very much doubt).

It does mean that when it comes to domestic policy on the left, it’s Bernie’s world and the rest of the Democrats live in it.

His success represents a version of what has happened to center-left parties around the West, as they have collapsed or been eclipsed by new forces. The two-party system is a durable feature of the American system, so the Democrats aren’t going anywhere, but Sanders is an interloper. As Hillary Clinton complains, he’s “not even a Democrat.”

This is not a cutting attack. Indeed, it doesn’t matter in the least to the Democrats in good standing who are vacuuming up Bernie’s ideas. You can hardly be a U.S. senator who hopes to run for president if you aren’t co-sponsoring pillars of the Sanders agenda such as Medicare for All, free college and the $15 minimum wage.”

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Bernie isn't going to be the Democratic nominee in 2020. Hillary Clinton beat him badly in 2016 for the nomination and those millions and millions of supporters are not going to vote for him in Democratic primaries. Bernie is very popular among young progressive Democrats and they don't get out and vote. 

Keep wishing and hoping though.

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The race was determined long before the primaries were over and before the convention but unlike Hillary, who was much closer to beating Obama in 2008, Bernie stayed in the race until the convention which was divisive. Hillary dropped out before the Democratic convention in 2008 and it made for a smooth convention. A large number were so butt-hurt that the #NeverHillary bullshit got popular and those Bernie bots were successfully targeted by Russians and stats show they helped elect Trump. 

Clinton got 16.8 million primary votes and Sanders got 13.2 million. That's 56% to 44%, a landslide. 

I remember the Bernie idiots claiming Hillary was a Republican. They refused to vote for her by either voting for Trump, staying home for voting for Stein.

I wonder if they are happy with who they help elect. In my opinion they are as guilty as the Republicans and they deserve to own it. 

I hope you are still laughing when Bernie loses again.

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6 minutes ago, Texas73 said:

Clinton got 16.8 million primary votes and Sanders got 13.2 million. That's 56% to 44%, a landslide. 

Political parties are not based on democracy.  This is shaggy surly CR gospel. 

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22 minutes ago, Texas73 said:

The race was determined long before the primaries were over and before the convention but unlike Hillary, who was much closer to beating Obama in 2008, Bernie stayed in the race until the convention which was divisive. Hillary dropped out before the Democratic convention in 2008 and it made for a smooth convention. A large number were so butt-hurt that the #NeverHillary bullshit got popular and those Bernie bots were successfully targeted by Russians and stats show they helped elect Trump. 

More Hillary voters went to McCain than Bernie voters went to Trump. Twice as many. (25% Hillary -> McCain, 12% Bernie->Trump)

There is always ~10% drift in the electorate. Hillary required unprecedented party-line and ideological loyalty to win because she was absolute garbage. And still is. As are her fervent fans.

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As are her fervent fans. Thanks.

Do you believe Trump supporters are garbage too? 

Edited by Texas73

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54 minutes ago, Texas73 said:

Bernie isn't going to be the Democratic nominee in 2020. Hillary Clinton beat him badly in 2016 for the nomination and those millions and millions of supporters are not going to vote for him in Democratic primaries. Bernie is very popular among young progressive Democrats and they don't get out and vote. 

Keep wishing and hoping though.

those 13 million Bernie voters will be 4 years older in 2020. The HRC ones have died of old age or been deported. 

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Many Democrats have warmed to Bernie's policy positions which is why many of them poll at 60/40 or better among the general public and higher among Democrats.

His 44% from 2016 has grown. He will enter the 2018 with well over 50% support among Democrats and it will grow from there.

Edited by RayDog

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Hillary dropped out before the Democratic convention in 2008 and it made for a smooth convention.


Oh.

Is that mainly why that happened? The 2008 convention went more smoothly than 2016 due to nobility of Hillary?

The way some Hillary primary voters seethe over Bernie primary voters despite the fact the overwhelming majority of them supported Clinton in the general, one would think somehow the DNC was.caught breaking their own party rules to tilt the field towards Bernie instead of the other way around. Not sure what y'all are trying to gain from that, but y'all are the election experts, obviously.

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51 minutes ago, Texas73 said:

As are her fervent fans. Thanks.

Do you believe Trump supporters are garbage too? 

Trump fans are also garbage. Much worse garbage.

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14 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Trump fans are also garbage. Much worse garbage.

In your judgement, what percent of adults in the U. S. are garbage?

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8 hours ago, RayDog said:

Many Democrats have warmed to Bernie's policy positions which is why many of them poll at 60/40 or better among the general public and higher among Democrats.

His 44% from 2016 has grown. He will enter the 2018 with well over 50% support among Democrats and it will grow from there.

Actually, no. I haven’t seen any evidence that black Democrats have completely warmed to Bernie’s progressive policies. They are a little more establishment-y in their politics. Hillary creamed Bernie in the black belt and urban cities like Detroit, Philly, Atlanta, Cleveland, etc. if Bernie can’t speak to them, I’m not sure he can win the primary without them. 

Edited by Js1

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Clintons are entrenched in the minds of blacks, I don't think any other white candidate can match that. So unless a black candidate is high in the primaries, Bernie has a very good shot at getting the black vote. 

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4 minutes ago, Orca of Peace said:

Clintons are entrenched in the minds of blacks, I don't think any other white candidate can match that. So unless a black candidate is high in the primaries, Bernie has a very good shot at getting the black vote. 

I don't agree, I  think "Blacks" are less entrenched than many white folks, especially women white folks.  The Clintons are gone, and Hillary didn't get the black vote out in droves.

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7 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I don't agree, I  think "Blacks" are less entrenched than many white folks, especially women white folks.  The Clintons are gone, and Hillary didn't get the black vote out in droves.

it's not the numbers, it's the percentages. There is no favorite among blacks amongst the white candidates AFAIK. 

It was kind of strange that Bernie won Oklahoma, then I realized OK has few blacks. He's got the white liberal vote down IMO more than any other and will split the black vote with other candidates. Any black candidate will take the black vote but Bernie will take the white votes no question. 

The key though are the Latinos of CA and TX who went for HRC strong IIRC. 

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4 minutes ago, Orca of Peace said:

it's not the numbers, it's the percentages. There is no favorite among blacks amongst the white candidates AFAIK. 

It was kind of strange that Bernie won Oklahoma, then I realized OK has few blacks. He's got the white liberal vote down IMO more than any other and will split the black vote with other candidates. Any black candidate will take the black vote but Bernie will take the white votes no question. 

The key though are the Latinos of CA and TX who went for HRC strong IIRC. 

I stopped and paused here for a while....  numbers aren't percentages ?  percentages aren't numbers ?  I feel like I'm in the Lord Mudd Star Trek episode and I'm Norman.

He isn't getting the black vote because he's a totally, 100%, unhip, white guy. Bill got their vote cause they liked his coolish attitude.

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Actually, no. I haven’t seen any evidence that black Democrats have completely warmed to Bernie’s progressive policies. They are a little more establishment-y in their politics. Hillary creamed Bernie in the black belt and urban cities like Detroit, Philly, Atlanta, Cleveland, etc. if Bernie can’t speak to them, I’m not sure he can win the primary without them. 


Do you even Killer Mike bro?

RTJ!

5653f0d62100003e005ab832.jpeg?cache=mj1aa8yjnc&ops=1910_1000

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Nothing quite like a Septuagenarian Socialist from Vermont throwing up  hand signs.

Edited by Incredulity

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1 hour ago, Buzzrock said:

 


Do you even Killer Mike bro?

RTJ!

5653f0d62100003e005ab832.jpeg?cache=mj1aa8yjnc&ops=1910_1000

 

I don't killer Mike at all. He sat on his fat ass and refused to vote for the Democrat because she wasn't Sanders. Among the real life consequences for working class people hurt by Trump's election is having to deal with the abolishment of the OCare funding mechanism and exploding health care cost. 

Screw him.

Edited by Satchel

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9 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Nothing quite like a Septuagenarian Socialist from Vermont throwing up  hand signs.

Ever been to a Longhorn game?

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Really find it hilarious that people get mad at black people who did not want to vote for Hillary "superpredators" Clinton.

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27 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Really find it hilarious that people get mad at black people who did not want to vote for Hillary "superpredators" Clinton.

His healtcare prospects didn't rest on Hillary or Bernie, but those of working class people rest with Trump. His lack of pragmatism helped further marginalize people he purports to advocate for.

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You must vote for a woman who called your children superpredators and loves the police state that actively subjugates your people because she might make forced-purchase private health insurance slightly more affordable.

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1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

Really find it hilarious that people get mad at black people who did not want to vote for Hillary "superpredators" Clinton.

Hillary won the States with any significant percentage of black and Latino voters. Bernie won the whitest States. 

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Bernie has gained name recognition. Since his 2016 run he has gone from an unknown independent to a name most recognize. It will help with minority voters. I think people need to realize that an old unhip white guy is the only one who can truly change a society made by old unhip white guys for old unhip white guys. Ask Obama. I think the reason some old unhip white guys are scared of this certain old unhip white guy is because they realize he is trying to incrementally change society for the betterment of everyone. In other words Islamic Sharia law. Bernie is trying to level the playing field and they know he can because he is an old unhip white guy. Pretty much the antithesis of TrumpBernie has already changed the political landscape with his ideas.

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i don't think he's unhip, just old of course. He's quite funny, charming, facially expressive - did you see the "boo thing" he does? He's your favorite cool uncle that's a welcome relief from the dorky parents.  Once you get to know him, there's nothing to not like. 

edit -- as far as being "old", remember Reagan was basically a vegetable around his last 2 years 87-88 and the world did not end. If Bernie serves his first term, he'll be 79-83. Trump is just 5 years younger than Bernie. 

Edited by Orca of Peace

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37 minutes ago, Orca of Peace said:

i don't think he's unhip, just old of course. He's quite funny, charming, facially expressive - did you see the "boo thing" he does? He's your favorite cool uncle that's a welcome relief from the dorky parents.  Once you get to know him, there's nothing to not like. 

edit -- as far as being "old", remember Reagan was basically a vegetable around his last 2 years 87-88 and the world did not end. If Bernie serves his first term, he'll be 79-83. Trump is just 5 years younger than Bernie. 

Dude, he's the most unhip white man since Larry King or Howard Cossel.

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6 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Dude, he's the most unhip white man since Larry King or Howard Cossel.

when i was in my UT dorm room, Larry King's live radio talk show got me through many study nights.  I also liked Howard a lot too on MNF and his interviews with Ali are legendary sports moments. Just b/c someone is old doesn't mean they are uncool, in fact their wisdom and experience are very intriguing. 

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5 minutes ago, Orca of Peace said:

when i was in my UT dorm room, Larry King's live radio talk show got me through many study nights.  I also liked Howard a lot too on MNF and his interviews with Ali are legendary sports moments. Just b/c someone is old doesn't mean they are uncool, in fact their wisdom and experience are very intriguing. 

Seriously dude, he's unhip. He was unhip when he was a young man. I love Cosell as I watched all those games he called on Monday night.  He was unhip. Larry is unhip. Bernie is an old white guy who needs a new hip. Age hasn't made him more hip that's for damned sure.

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12 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Seriously dude, he's unhip. He was unhip when he was a young man. I love Cosell as I watched all those games he called on Monday night.  He was unhip. Larry is unhip. Bernie is an old white guy who needs a new hip. Age hasn't made him more hip that's for damned sure.

what makes a person hip anyway? does he have to go on stage with Run DMC? 

 

edit -- if you look at his support , it's the YOUNG people who love Bernie and the olds went for HRC.

Edited by Orca of Peace

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How about no more interventionist wars and no bailouts for banks?  I'm really blown away that the Democrats do not seem anti-war anymore.  Repeal Citizens United I can get behind, but you start losing me with this almost cult-like adoration for the State to provide everything from cradle to grave.  We have healthcare, the issue is why it's so expensive.  We have education, hell, you can learn everything you want to know with a quick google search, but again, why is college so expensive?  

 

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

How about no more interventionist wars and no bailouts for banks? 

Pretty much Elizabeth Warren’s platform 

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didn't the bailout occur under Obama? Was he for it? Was Congress R then?   

Wasn't' the economy on the verge of collapse were it not for the bank bailout?

Edited by Orca of Peace

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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/ng-interactive/2018/sep/13/bernie-sanders-international-progressive-front

In a time of exploding wealth and technology, we have the potential to create a decent life for all people. Our job is to build on our common humanity and do everything that we can to oppose all of the forces, whether unaccountable government power or unaccountable corporate power, who try to divide us up and set us against each other. We know that those forces work together across borders. We must do the same.

 

Agree. Shocker I know... obviously spot on regarding right wing authoritarianism working together throughout the world.

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https://slate.com/business/2018/10/amazon-15-an-hour-bernie-sanders.html

 

Bernie again showing what real leadership looks like. Pushing for a bill that had no chance of getting passed. That wasn’t the point. The point was putting the pressure on these companies and getting the public behind the idea. It worked. The pressure will only mount for other companies to follow suit. Props to Bezos for not being intimidated or getting defensive. Instead the richest man in the world did the right thing. Rewarding his workers who helped get him there. 

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