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Nikola Jokic deserves his own thread


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On 8/11/2022 at 4:06 PM, shadow_operative said:

the disrespect continues. at this point nikola jokic is irrefutably the most inexplicably disrespected player in NBA history. just ask ESPN's experts, who think that the two-time, back to back, reigning mvp has the same chances to win that award as Jayson Tatum and fucking Karl Anthony Towns. this is becoming a bad joke at this point.

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and don't just write it off as, "well that's espn for you". it's hoops fans everywhere. go read the threads and discussions and comment sections all over social media- people do not give this man any respect. devin booker's merely above average ass gets slurped by fans and media year after year, while jokic gets dismissed and downplayed at every turn. i've never seen anything like it, in any sport, ever. 

jokic was left off of 41% of nba player's all star ballots. yeah. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

the latest straw poll shows that (surprise!), after actually watching nikola jokic play basketball for the last several months, nba writers have once again remembered that he's the best basketball player on the planet.

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how much longer are we going to do this for? remember earlier in this thread when i said it was disrespectful for the writers to have jokic way down the list of mvp favorites, behind the likes of dame lillard and devin booker, and everyone here defended the list? yeah, that's what i'm talking about. the people who post here should know better then anyone that jokic is the best player since peak lebron, and yet unlike lebron, basketball fans here and everywhere else will inevitably forget that fact, and claim that luka, or steph, or giannis, or KD is better, when the reality is that jokic deserves the LeBron treatment in terms of respect. i'll never wrap my head around the treatment/perception of this guy. literally, go talk ti basketball fans out in public- nobody rates this guy. he's like the new Wilt, except with almost zero fanfare or respect. it's insane.

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1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

the latest straw poll shows that (surprise!), after actually watching nikola jokic play basketball for the last several months, nba writers have once again remembered that he's the best basketball player on the planet.

68A1291E-D3C3-4BF3-9656-FB2F6DF78694.png.de24723c4c327b16cafb8b721355459e.png

how much longer are we going to do this for? remember earlier in this thread when i said it was disrespectful for the writers to have jokic way down the list of mvp favorites, behind the likes of dame lillard and devin booker, and everyone here defended the list? yeah, that's what i'm talking about. the people who post here should know better then anyone that jokic is the best player since peak lebron, and yet unlike lebron, basketball fans here and everywhere else will inevitably forget that fact, and claim that luka, or steph, or giannis, or KD is better, when the reality is that jokic deserves the LeBron treatment in terms of respect. i'll never wrap my head around the treatment/perception of this guy. literally, go talk ti basketball fans out in public- nobody rates this guy. he's like the new Wilt, except with almost zero fanfare or respect. it's insane.

Derka, who here rates him any lower than the 2nd best player on the planet? I've had him no worse than 1b for the past few years and, gun to my head, would have picked his shooting and shot creation over Giannis's defense. And his availability and passing over KD's added scoring. Back when those two were the "trendy" picks for best player in the league.

Here's what I said to defend the list that his MVP chances so low:

On 8/11/2022 at 2:16 PM, aggie08 said:

I mean...they're right. Voter fatigue is real. What were Giannis's odds coming off of consecutive MVPs? They're not going to give a guy 3 MVPs who doesn't have any team hardware unless he goes for 33/18/11 on a 60 win team.*

*slight exaggeration

 

On 8/11/2022 at 7:22 PM, aggie08 said:

I mean, I didn't say that it was sound logic. It's just reality. Voters are going to go out of their way to give it to someone else.

Denver pretty much has to be the #1 seed in the West for him to have a real shot.

Pretty much. I guess shame on me for assuming that he wasn't going to meet my insane benchmarks for a 3-peat MVP winner. I figured his team would let him down. If he was having his "normal" MVP insane numbers season on a 5 seed, they absolutely would be trying to find ways to give it to Luka or Embiid.

Instead, he's averaging a triple-double on 63% shooting on a team on pace to win 57 games. He's definitely in a class all by himself at this point.

All that said, he's just not going to get national attention that he deserves being a relatively "boring" personality playing in Denver until he starts competing for rings. Not particularly fair, just the reality.

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19 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Derka, who here rates him any lower than the 2nd best player on the planet? I've had him no worse than 1b for the past few years and, gun to my head, would have picked his shooting and shot creation over Giannis's defense. And his availability and passing over KD's added scoring. Back when those two were the "trendy" picks for best player in the league.

Here's what I said to defend the list that his MVP chances so low:

 

Pretty much. I guess shame on me for assuming that he wasn't going to meet my insane benchmarks for a 3-peat MVP winner. I figured his team would let him down. If he was having his "normal" MVP insane numbers season on a 5 seed, they absolutely would be trying to find ways to give it to Luka or Embiid.

Instead, he's averaging a triple-double on 63% shooting on a team on pace to win 57 games. He's definitely in a class all by himself at this point.

All that said, he's just not going to get national attention that he deserves being a relatively "boring" personality playing in Denver until he starts competing for rings. Not particularly fair, just the reality.

your reasons for dismissing him don't matter, especially considering the players named above him. aside from the one preseason mvp poll, to this day if you go ask any random hoops fan to name the best player in the nba, he won't say jokic. you'll hear luka, giannis, embiid, steph, KD, hell even kyrie will almost always be named before jokic. your weird, inexplicable need to pass off this disrespect as rational or expected boggles the mind. 

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People who really enjoy and appreciate the game understand just how insanely good he is. Who gives a shit what NBA Twitter and talking heads think? All that shit it going to gravitate towards "RINGZ" and personal biases. And it's going to be a short list of fans who have a chubby Serbian as their favorite superstar player.

I appreciate all your efforts to hype him up though. Maybe you'll attract a few eyeballs who have otherwise been missing out on basketball genius.

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Not to belabor what you already know, but could you imagine this dude's media coverage is he was born in Iowa? Shit, when Kevin Love was putting up 20/20's in Minnesota, I feel like there were weekly featurettes on the beauty of his outlet passes.
Or if he was willing to market himself even a little bit. He had to be leaving millions a year in endorsements on the table.
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6 hours ago, aggie08 said:

I think we need to start bracing Derka for Embiid winning MVP this year. The media push is real.

I dunno.  He's getting roasted for ducking Jok and the Nuggets last night.  Prior to today I would have told you he's a sure thing (because of voter fatigue and how hard it is to win 3 straight), but now I don't know.

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17 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

I dunno.  He's getting roasted for ducking Jok and the Nuggets last night.  Prior to today I would have told you he's a sure thing (because of voter fatigue and how hard it is to win 3 straight), but now I don't know.

 

17 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Yea DP has been saying "Embiid is going to win" for about a week now. He's usually on target with NBA stuff. Oh well.

 

This latest game of him sitting out against Jokic doesn't sit right with me, though.

 

15 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

The Embiid story from last night keeps getting better.  He was in the stadium but refused to leave the locker room during the game.  What a little bitch.

Harden sat on the bench during the game.

I don't know if I buy the ducking Jokic angle. Two months ago, Embiid dropped 47 and 18 "on" Jokic in a win. No one on Denver (or any team) can guard him. I don't see how not playing helps his chances.

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1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

I don't know if I buy the ducking Jokic angle. Two months ago, Embiid dropped 47 and 18 "on" Jokic in a win. No one on Denver (or any team) can guard him. I don't see how not playing helps his chances.

He had a great game in Philly, but didn't return the favor and play in Denver.  I think he wanted that one game to be it against Jok (didn't want to give Jokic the opportunity to return the favor with a big game against him) and the heat he's taking is because he ducked the Nuggets the other night.  Say what you want about Jokic, but he shows up and plays every night.  Embiid does not.  He's missed 20% of Philly's games.

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17 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

He had a great game in Philly, but didn't return the favor and play in Denver.  I think he wanted that one game to be it against Jok (didn't want to give Jokic the opportunity to return the favor with a big game against him) and the heat he's taking is because he ducked the Nuggets the other night.  Say what you want about Jokic, but he shows up and plays every night.  Embiid does not.  He's missed 20% of Philly's games.

Yeah i don't have respect for Embiid not giving the fans what they want. He knew it was a big game.

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  • 4 weeks later...
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look i'm happy for joel embiid, ive always been a big fan of his, he's a monster, and he's not an undeserving winner. however, the only reason he won is voter fatigue, and you're going to have a tough time convincing me that jokic didn't deserve his third straight mvp. if you can make an argument that trumps this one then i'll listen to you, but for me it's pretty simple: during the regular season denver led the league in NET rating when jokic was on the floor, and they were dead last in the nba when he wasn't. it doesn't get any more "mvp" than that. 

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He's the best player in a series featuring one of the 15 best players to ever touch a basketball still in his extended prime and a guy putting up playoff scoring numbers we haven't seen since MJ in 1990. 

Ho hum.

Edited by ztejas
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1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:
3 hours ago, Wally Pryor said:
Mark Jackson has been and remains an idiot. 

Yeah, even his explanation makes no sense. Last year he had Jokic and Embiid on his ballot...

He's such a tool.  I can't stand him.  He's self centered.  I'll bet he hates Steve Kerr.

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2 hours ago, Chewbacca said:
4 hours ago, Wally Pryor said:
Mark Jackson has been and remains an idiot. 

Yeah, even his explanation makes no sense. Last year he had Jokic and Embiid on his ballot...

I think there's a pretty heavy backlash against Jokic and they'll point to him never making the finals.  That's all the haters got.  I love watching him play.  Great all around player.

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I think there's a pretty heavy backlash against Jokic and they'll point to him never making the finals.  That's all the haters got.  I love watching him play.  Great all around player.
If that's their argument, has Embiid even made the conference finals? Jokic is now in his 2nd. Huge difference in how Jokic played in their closeout game last night vs Embiid.

Embiid went on a crybaby bitch fest to get that MVP trophy. You had talking heads bring race into the discussion as well. No way he deserved it over Jokic this year. Not even close.
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43 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

If that's their argument, has Embiid even made the conference finals? Jokic is now in his 2nd. Huge difference in how Jokic played in their closeout game last night vs Embiid.

Embiid went on a crybaby bitch fest to get that MVP trophy. You had talking heads bring race into the discussion as well. No way he deserved it over Jokic this year. Not even close.

I wonder if that's a factor?

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people have been wanting a reason to give embiid the mvp for years now, and as vic said embiid has been asking them to figure it to him. this year, with jokic leading his team to the no.1 seed in the west and having another historic offensive season, people basically said, "if joel plays 65 games we're giving him the award no matter what jokic does." and they did. 

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8 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

I know triple-doubles ain't what they used to be, but the fact that a center came a dozen or so assists from averaging a triple-double for the season blows my mind.

A center who likely doesn’t give a shot about stats at that.  It’s not like he was being a Westbrook and blocking out his teammates 

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