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El Diablo

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Wanted to send all of you who are interested in a 7am zoom meeting the information from the Harbor Group here in FW.  Here is where I found the answer and many others have as well.  Please feel free to join us as we trudge the road to happy destiny seven days a week. Yours truly will be chairing on Saturdays in September.  While we are now meeting once again in the building at 3000 W. 5th, space is limited and masks required. Y'all stay safe this holiday weekend.

ID:965-7691-7731

Password: harbor7am

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1 hour ago, Reagan1k said:


Yeah- the old adage is for me to only read the black print on the white pages and set aside what I think it says until I really read and absorb it.

The Charlie Wilson clip / the parable of the farmer are that beam I strive to fly.  Pain is what causes me to know it’s time to recalibrate course. 

Often times,  my best prayer in the morning is simply “Ok God.... whatever.” And at night....simply “Oh well.”

Somewhere upthread I mentioned James Lee Burke's Dave Robicheaux summarizing the Serenity Prayer as "fuck it."  I think this is what he means.

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19 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Somewhere upthread I mentioned James Lee Burke's Dave Robicheaux summarizing the Serenity Prayer as "fuck it."  I think this is what he means.

Well, I ran out of edit time, but wanted to add this.

My wife is interested in recovery principles and what in me results in a "laid back" attitude.  To her, at times, she feels like I am too complacent, and that actually may be true.  But by the same token, she has a controlling streak.  To her, it seems like I am always in "fuck it" mode.

Part of this is that she "catastrophizes" things, meaning foresees the worst possible outcome, which was definitely a tendency of mine that has mostly vanished:  we'll see. 

I've long enjoyed the old saying that "God takes care of drunks, fools, and little children," and find that to be especially true in recovery, when you let Him (apologies for the overt "God-talk," substitute your higher power as needed).  When you get out of the business of controlling or trying to manipulate outcomes, it's really freeing and things have a habit of just working out.  The efforts to manipulate and control are bound to be fruitless and frustrating, and the outcome you are trying to achieve is rarely the optimal one.  Of course, that doesn't mean you sit back and do nothing at all, you remain obligated to do the next right thing, whatever that may be under the circumstances.

It looks like Celery's job hunt is a perfect example.  Things are working out and who knows what greatness is on his horizon.  Sure, there was some fear, and I guess in perfect recovery there might be none at all, but it wasn't debilitating, paralytic fear that resulted in "bad behavior" that may be ultimately expressed in drinking/using again, but can be short of that.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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5 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

Congrats on the offer!  So happy it worked out.

The promises for me were hard to understand and even harder to experience (or realize I had experienced them).  My sponsor made me go line by line and hammered home that they don’t deal with outcomes being good- but instead they deal with my actions and reactions to both good and bad outcomes or circumstances.

 The classic example is regarding financial insecurity.  He hammered home it doesn’t say financial insecurity will leave (like our brains want to read it).  It says that the fear of that will leave.

So happy you have walked through this entire experience sober and with some serenity.  God speed in the new adventure.


Great post - I love what your sponsor said and we are on the same page - but it says Economic insecurity, not financial insecurity.  They mean different things.

Congrats @Celery Man!  Just another example of how God takes care of what we need if we rely upon him.  Thanks for being that example because I need to hear it and take it to heart.

Edited by BearSchlong
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2 hours ago, pch said:

Wanted to send all of you who are interested in a 7am zoom meeting the information from the Harbor Group here in FW.  Here is where I found the answer and many others have as well.  Please feel free to join us as we trudge the road to happy destiny seven days a week. Yours truly will be chairing on Saturdays in September.  While we are now meeting once again in the building at 3000 W. 5th, space is limited and masks required. Y'all stay safe this holiday weekend.

ID:965-7691-7731

Password: harbor7am

Is this daily?

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5 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:


Great post - I love what your sponsor said and we are on the same page - but it says Economic insecurity, not financial insecurity.  They mean different things.

Congrats @Celery Man!  Just another example of how God takes care of what we need if we rely upon him.  Thanks for being that example because I need to hear it and take it to heart.

Hence the fact that he keeps telling me black in on white pages.  I need to go RE-RE-RE- read.  Perfect example.  Thanks. 

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1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, I ran out of edit time, but wanted to add this.

My wife is interested in recovery principles and what in me results in a "laid back" attitude.  To her, at times, she feels like I am too complacent, and that actually may be true.  But by the same token, she has a controlling streak.  To her, it seems like I am always in "fuck it" mode.

Part of this is that she "catastrophizes" things, meaning foresees the worst possible outcome, which was definitely a tendency of mine that has mostly vanished:  we'll see. 

I've long enjoyed the old saying that "God takes care of drunks, fools, and little children," and find that to be especially true in recovery, when you let Him (apologies for the overt "God-talk," substitute your higher power as needed).  When you get out of the business of controlling or trying to manipulate outcomes, it's really freeing and things have a habit of just working out.  The efforts to manipulate and control are bound to be fruitless and frustrating, and the outcome you are trying to achieve is rarely the optimal one.  Of course, that doesn't mean you sit back and do nothing at all, you remain obligated to do the next right thing, whatever that may be under the circumstances.

It looks like Celery's job hunt is a perfect example.  Things are working out and who knows what greatness is on his horizon.  Sure, there was some fear, and I guess in perfect recovery there might be none at all, but it wasn't debilitating, paralytic fear that resulted in "bad behavior" that may be ultimately expressed in drinking/using again, but can be short of that.

I’m literally living this right now.  As in ....between when I posted that above and this reply.  Something happened to a family member.... no one’s life is in danger but it’s a major hiccup and an inconvenience-  will make for an interesting few days.  3rd family member is already calling me making plans of action for Monday and beyond -  we don’t even know if those plans  will be a) needed and b) warranted.

I said we need to see if “x” solves it and if not then what happens when we “y” before we plan for “z”.

i was told I’m being too cavalier.  I explained that was not the case and we just need to see what plays out before we put wheels in motion for the worst case that may never come.

I’m working to help fix the situation we have this very moment and will deal with other situations as they come up.  Not catastrophizing future events is something I’ve been embracing only since I found this program in sobriety.

i try to look at things as situations and not problems.  Simply casting them into a different light via a shift in semantics works wonders for me.... most of the time!!!!

 

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Oh- and situation or “problem” was solved with a zip tie.  We went from someone stranded alone, 500 miles from home and inaccessible by wrecker service......with family members frantically prepping for a 2-day “rescue” to a non-issue in a matter of moments and a google search.

My view (take it with a grain of salt) is that no one’s God either caused the event or created the fix.  Mine simply gave me some peace and serenity to approach the situation calmly and pragmatically and pause before screaming fire!!!

Another lesson that the promises come true if I work for them - and can practice what I know will work. 

 

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Oh- and situation or “problem” was solved with a zip tie.  We went from someone stranded alone, 500 miles from home and inaccessible by wrecker service......with family members frantically prepping for a 2-day “rescue” to a non-issue in a matter of moments and a google search.

My view (take it with a grain of salt) is that no one’s God either caused the event or created the fix.  Mine simply gave me some peace and serenity to approach the situation calmly and pragmatically and pause before screaming fire!!!

Another lesson that the promises come true if I work for them - and can practice what I know will work. 

 

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Oh...  @Celery Man  I must have missed it.  OUTSTANDING news!  Where is the new gig? 

Had something happen that I found interesting.  While in rehab, I've become much more versed in the opioid situation for a lot of reasons.   But a little over a month ago we had a good friend who lost a 21 yr old son.  Everyone knew what happened but I was giving them room before I even tried to talk with them.   And I never really saw anything to verify what everyone already knew.  Ran in to a common friend to check on their status.  I learned that the parents had jumped in completely to learn all they never knew and didn't know about opioid addiction.  Once I found out that they weren't putting their head in the sand or trying to deny the cause, I contacted her.  Then, a week later she posted this brilliant writing about the situation.   

I mainly wanted them to listen to Stephanie Wittles Wachs' BRILLIANT podcast, "The Last Day".  She later told me she had already read her book and just about every other book I knew about.  Then we were able to have a really long conversation.    One thing she said was, "I posted that because people are going to think what they want about us but I didn't want them to be dragging his name through the mud....but assholes who don't understand are going to do that anyway."   She also mentioned several time about what a failure she and her husband felt like.  All typical stuff.  I just listened and didn't say, "Don't say that.  Don't feel that way.  You are wrong...you are GREAT parents".  I just let her talk. 

At the end she said, "Thank  you so much.  You are the first of hundreds of people who hasn't told me not to feel this way."

One thing I'm learning through my little trail this past year and 4 months is, "You feel how you feel.  Don't try to change it.  Just sit with it, realize what it is and move on."  The moving on part is the variable.....some things take longer to move on from than others.  Moving on from a son dying from an OD will obviously just take a lifetime.  

I told her that being a Texan, I had to rely on my spiritual roots. The Tao of Willie.  I told her the story of Buddy Cannon overhearing Willie Nelson talking to a friend who had just lost her husband.  She told Willie, "I don't think I'll ever get over this."  Willie told her, "It's not something you get over.  It's something you get through."  

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1 hour ago, hullabelew said:

Oh...  @Celery Man  I must have missed it.  OUTSTANDING news!  Where is the new gig? 

Raleigh. We're excited. Should be able to get a bigger house, have space for guitars and I guess baby stuff if it comes to it. We had been kicking around the idea of moving - she's much more... on board isn't the right term, but motivated to go somewhere else than I am. Narrowly avoided moving to Cincinnati, and fuck that. A) I can't spell it, B) I don't want to have a kid from Ohio. 

Quote

One thing I'm learning through my little trail this past year and 4 months is, "You feel how you feel.  Don't try to change it.  Just sit with it, realize what it is and move on."  The moving on part is the variable.....some things take longer to move on from than others.  Moving on from a son dying from an OD will obviously just take a lifetime.  

Palabra. Este. Verdad. How you feel isn't how you think. It's how you feel. It colors how you think and act. Recognize your feelings. Recognize the mixture of feelings you have at an abstract level. Recognize how anxiety feels and what it makes you do, recognize frustration and anger, etc. Get to know yourself a bit. Understand why you respond certain ways in certain situations a bit. You don't really control how you feel, but if you can do that kind of... externalization and rationalization about it, you have a lot of power over how it causes you to act, and you have a lot of power over how able you are to process it and understand it and yourself.

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On 8/17/2020 at 8:47 AM, BearSchlong said:

Hi y'all.

Been through the wringer with Covid for the past 2 weeks and it's been awful.  Unable to work, which has thrown me into all kinds of fear and anxiety.  I'm coming back to work today, but admittedly at about 50% capability, my company's Covid PTO benefit expired so I basically have to just suck it up and see what I can get accomplished.

Acceptance, patience, and tolerance has to be my code otherwise I'll never make it.  Total reliance on the steps and the things I learned in AA about the disease of alcoholism is where I'm at today.  Think I'll attend some online zoom meetings today as well.

 

 

On 8/18/2020 at 9:11 AM, BearSchlong said:

Hope you get reconnected soon.  Day 18 covid recovery, going to lots of online meetings and just trying to stay alive at this point.  This is definitely the roughest curve ball I've had in a while.  At this point I'm just trying to endure through this.

@Celery Mancongrats!

Quoting myself to reflect on how my program got me through COVID, panic attacks, and fear. 40 days post 1st Covid symptoms.

Can't remember if I've mentioned this but back in 2004 before I had any clue that I was alcoholic I had a serious heart problem (ended up with a pacemaker), spent a few weeks in the heart hospital, then went nuts and spent a few weekends in the looney bin, had to take FMLA for a few months, and actually made a half assed suicide attempt.  Doctors said "oops your not ADD, no more Adderall for you, you're now Bipolar, here is some lithium and other pills for that." This was the first time in my life (I was 32 then) that I experienced the sheer terror of anxiety attacks.  I remember being obsessed for a few days about how I was going to just end it all, and leave behind a wife, a 12 year old, and a 4 year old.  Anyway, got straightened out and put on the rails for about 5 years before I started new and interesting ways to reach my alcoholic bottom.

When I (and my doctors) discovered in 2011 I was just a garden variety alcoholic and I sobered up, I've often thought back to 2004 and that week of inexplicable anxiety and terror, and how fucking real it all felt, and how in the context of my life that week was an outlier, just sheer insanity.

So a few weeks ago I reached a new understanding of powerlessness - New job with percieved huge expectations, covid and can't work, manditory hurricane evac order, took the dogs and wife and went and lived with a buddy in Leander for a week - I started having anxiety attacks and yes, had a few very fleeting thoughts similar to the ones in 2004 about pulling the plug.  Most of my fears center on financial disaster/bankruptcy.  What if I never recovered from Covid, what if the virus attacked my brain and made me disabled and I couldn't work?  I got obligations and an image, man!  Character defects just exploding.

Ah, but this time I've got a spiritual program - I had a period of 3 days when I was having panic attacks, but now I could chuckle at myself and pray and know that this too shall pass - and it did.  Didn't sleep for a few nights - and of course insomnia is listed as a Covid side effect.

Stayed in touch with my sponsor, grand sponsor, sponsees, went to a ton of meetings online, basically just stopped thinking and did what I was taught to do.  Even came here and posted "this just sucks"

Most of all, I prayed more than I ever prayed before.  I'm NOT one of those alcoholics that does this daily even though it's been recommended that I do. OK God, you got my attention.

Debated sharing this with you guys because I hate admitting weakness, I'm a man, I'm 40, but I gave an abbreviated account in the OCD/Depression thread and wanted to elaborate in the context of 12 step recovery.

So today is day 40, I'd say I'm 95% strength.  Looking back, I'm grateful for the shitty August because my program and faith were strengthened.

Edited by BearSchlong
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Has anyone spelled out what the 'language of the heart' is or means?

 

Forward to 3rd Edition 1976:

Modem-to-modem or face-to-face, A.A.’s speak the language of the heart in all its power and simplicity.

 

Is there anything maybe in the preface to Bill W.'s collection of Grapevine writings or elsewhere? What you guys got? Or is the answer a personal journey?

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To me it's one of those things that you know it when you hear it because it's full of God's grace, and a strong emotional identification with recovery, but I have to be spiritually equipped to hear it.

Like if I'm at a meeting and in a bad mood, preoccupied with something else and halfway listening to some newcomer blubber on about their pink cloud, I'll roll my eyes and think to myself "get ready honey, this too shall pass."  When I'm in this mindset, I get a mental picture of the Randy Quaid character from Major League, sitting in the bleachers crapping on any good thing the tribe is doing.

But if I'm at a my annual conference, no internet, detached from the world, and catching up with old friends or listening with rapt attention to a good AA talk then all resistance melts away and I'm "wow that's a damned miracle, only by God's grace and our program of recovery does that happen" and I get all teary eyed and grateful that I'm smack dab in the middle of the greatest "organization" in world history.

I'm occasionally the defiant asshole who rolls my eyes at metaphors like "spiritual toolkit" and "language of the heart" or my least favorite, "the music in the rooms" as trite AA cliches, but that's just my disease getting in God's way.

I'm powerless over newcomers, but I hope that they get to where they can hear "the language of the heart" - obviously they do at some point if they "get" the program, right?

In thinking about what constitutes "language of the heart" I realized my first trip to AA in 1995 I was completely unable to hear it even though I'm positive it was there.

Glad I have a little fluency now.

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To me, the language of the heart is anything that is gut level honest about sharing (or hearing.... as Bear said) our common experience, strength, and hope.

It's being open and vulnerable and knowing I need you and you need me....without my ego or self-centered mind getting in the way.

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On 9/10/2020 at 12:13 PM, BearSchlong said:

 

@Celery Mancongrats!

Quoting myself to reflect on how my program got me through COVID, panic attacks, and fear. 40 days post 1st Covid symptoms.

Can't remember if I've mentioned this but back in 2004 before I had any clue that I was alcoholic I had a serious heart problem (ended up with a pacemaker), spent a few weeks in the heart hospital, then went nuts and spent a few weekends in the looney bin, had to take FMLA for a few months, and actually made a half assed suicide attempt.  Doctors said "oops your not ADD, no more Adderall for you, you're now Bipolar, here is some lithium and other pills for that." This was the first time in my life (I was 32 then) that I experienced the sheer terror of anxiety attacks.  I remember being obsessed for a few days about how I was going to just end it all, and leave behind a wife, a 12 year old, and a 4 year old.  Anyway, got straightened out and put on the rails for about 5 years before I started new and interesting ways to reach my alcoholic bottom.

When I (and my doctors) discovered in 2011 I was just a garden variety alcoholic and I sobered up, I've often thought back to 2004 and that week of inexplicable anxiety and terror, and how fucking real it all felt, and how in the context of my life that week was an outlier, just sheer insanity.

So a few weeks ago I reached a new understanding of powerlessness - New job with percieved huge expectations, covid and can't work, manditory hurricane evac order, took the dogs and wife and went and lived with a buddy in Leander for a week - I started having anxiety attacks and yes, had a few very fleeting thoughts similar to the ones in 2004 about pulling the plug.  Most of my fears center on financial disaster/bankruptcy.  What if I never recovered from Covid, what if the virus attacked my brain and made me disabled and I couldn't work?  I got obligations and an image, man!  Character defects just exploding.

Ah, but this time I've got a spiritual program - I had a period of 3 days when I was having panic attacks, but now I could chuckle at myself and pray and know that this too shall pass - and it did.  Didn't sleep for a few nights - and of course insomnia is listed as a Covid side effect.

Stayed in touch with my sponsor, grand sponsor, sponsees, went to a ton of meetings online, basically just stopped thinking and did what I was taught to do.  Even came here and posted "this just sucks"

Most of all, I prayed more than I ever prayed before.  I'm NOT one of those alcoholics that does this daily even though it's been recommended that I do. OK God, you got my attention.

Debated sharing this with you guys because I hate admitting weakness, I'm a man, I'm 40, but I gave an abbreviated account in the OCD/Depression thread and wanted to elaborate in the context of 12 step recovery.

So today is day 40, I'd say I'm 95% strength.  Looking back, I'm grateful for the shitty August because my program and faith were strengthened.

I hate my anxiety so fucking much. The past 2 days it has made me absolutely miserable to where I want to go drink to escape it. I just have to convince myself "this won't last forever, everything will be okay, it's going to get better, not worse" and fortunately the more I work that muscle the easier it gets to recoil from the idea of picking up again. 

One of THE BEST things I can do for my anxiety - better than meditating, smoking, exercising, whatever - is getting to a meeting and sitting my ass down and listening and sharing. It's a consistent reminder that I'm not alone and that I don't have it that bad and there's a reason I don't drink anymore.

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58 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I hate my anxiety so fucking much. The past 2 days it has made me absolutely miserable to where I want to go drink to escape it. I just have to convince myself "this won't last forever, everything will be okay, it's going to get better, not worse" and fortunately the more I work that muscle the easier it gets to recoil from the idea of picking up again. 

One of THE BEST things I can do for my anxiety - better than meditating, smoking, exercising, whatever - is getting to a meeting and sitting my ass down and listening and sharing. It's a consistent reminder that I'm not alone and that I don't have it that bad and there's a reason I don't drink anymore.

@ztejas    I get it.  It sucks. 

I've always trended toward anxiety...sometime debilitating.  Since becoming sober, one of my crutches I lean on to help me (besides all the other things you are rightfully doing) is to listen to recordings of Sandy Beach talking about emotional sobriety and more importantly, recognizing the tape I play in my mind and the story my ego creates.   Once I am reminded of what I'm doing, it is easier to get a reset and some relief.

He really helps me boil things down.  AudioJoy is an app that has a lot of his talks and even some of his workshops.  He really helps me.

Anyway....maybe that's something to put in your arsenal.  Keep doing what you are doing.  It does pass.  God speed.

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@Reagan1kis there a particular talk of Sandy's, i.e. date, place that you particularly like?  I was supposed to see him a few years ago but he couldn't make it and then passed away.

Funny thing about Covid and the cancellation of most 2020 conferences is access to speakers - it's blown up.  I've been going to the Covina Speaker's meeting (click the link, search Covina, and scroll down) and so far that group has had 158 speaker meetings since March 26.  My grandsponsor is actually #158, he has a good talk.  Just click the name and the mp3 file plays.

https://amotaudio.com/zoom-conferences/

Love him or hate him, but Clancy gave this talk about alcoholism as a "Disease of Perception" - it's a good talk but the meat of the concept begins about 27 minutes in.  Blew my mind the first time I heard it, that I simply perceive the world inaccurately - which manifests in that panic and anxiety that seems so goshdanged real sometimes.

 

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AA Workshop - Pushing Forward To Your New Life

AA Workshop - Hope for Tomorrow

Living in the Moment

The Basics of Awakening, Again

Those are a few I have flagged on AudioJoy.

( I really like that app and also add SoberCast podcast for some variety. )

I'm not sure if they are searchable by those titles elsewhere or those titles are specific to AudioJoy.

Pretty much anything from him is beneficial for me.  

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4 hours ago, ztejas said:

I hate my anxiety so fucking much. The past 2 days it has made me absolutely miserable to where I want to go drink to escape it. I just have to convince myself "this won't last forever, everything will be okay, it's going to get better, not worse" and fortunately the more I work that muscle the easier it gets to recoil from the idea of picking up again. 

One of THE BEST things I can do for my anxiety - better than meditating, smoking, exercising, whatever - is getting to a meeting and sitting my ass down and listening and sharing. It's a consistent reminder that I'm not alone and that I don't have it that bad and there's a reason I don't drink anymore.

It WON'T last forever, you're  right about that. Getting close to 1000 days for me and I can't tell you how many times anxiety has brought me to my knees. Early on it could have been deadly. But, each one passed and I was the better for it. We can only do what is possible,  not asking for more, being okay with everything else, just take care of your side, do your duty. 

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So my coworker who went to rehab for the full 30 came back a few days ago and I have to say he is blown away by some of my knowledge all thanks to this thread. He was talking about how he dropped 20 pounds and then gained 12 back and I was like yeah your brain craves the sugar and it’s remapping  and then I brought up drunk dreams and he was like fuck yes and how did I know?

He is so much more enjoyable and can carry a conversation and not be irritable and bloated. I am thrilled for him. I am thinking about turning him on to this thread but I am not sure about how he would feel about when I mentioned his boss at first getting pissed when he told him he needed help. I just know his battle is beginning now that he is home and I want him to succeed. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Clintonaldo said:

So my coworker who went to rehab for the full 30 came back a few days ago and I have to say he is blown away by some of my knowledge all thanks to this thread. He was talking about how he dropped 20 pounds and then gained 12 back and I was like yeah your brain craves the sugar and it’s remapping  and then I brought up drunk dreams and he was like fuck yes and how did I know?

He is so much more enjoyable and can carry a conversation and not be irritable and bloated. I am thrilled for him. I am thinking about turning him on to this thread but I am not sure about how he would feel about when I mentioned his boss at first getting pissed when he told him he needed help. I just know his battle is beginning now that he is home and I want him to succeed. 

 

Be careful though - there's a non-zero chance that reading Surly will cause your co-worker to relapse especially if he accidentally finds his way into the Cloak Room.

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9 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

In my humble uninformed opinion the best way to deal with anxiety is to work with others, get out of self, show someone how to do something. All of a sudden you come to and realize, holy shit, I wasn't worrying about my problems that whole time.

^^^
This guy...... he gets it.  Spot on.

In the depths of anxiety it can be difficult, but it is a relief.

Being of service consistently  is any fashion Is a sure fire way to help ward off anxiety in the first place.

Making it a habit will provide some measure of insulation.

Volunteering at a food bank, soup kitchen, or animal shelter on the regular will do a world of good.  Nothing beats working with other drunks, but there are countless ways to be of service. 

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On 9/11/2020 at 5:36 PM, Reagan1k said:

AA Workshop - Pushing Forward To Your New Life

AA Workshop - Hope for Tomorrow

Living in the Moment

The Basics of Awakening, Again

Those are a few I have flagged on AudioJoy.

( I really like that app and also add SoberCast podcast for some variety. )

I'm not sure if they are searchable by those titles elsewhere or those titles are specific to AudioJoy.

Pretty much anything from him is beneficial for me.  

Thank you. 

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On 9/11/2020 at 10:20 PM, Clintonaldo said:

I am thinking about turning him on to this thread but I am not sure about how he would feel about when I mentioned his boss at first getting pissed when he told him he needed help. I just know his battle is beginning now that he is home and I want him to succeed. 

 

I think he could get everything on this board and much more through attending AA meetings and good sponsorship.

Have you considered offering to accompany him to an open meeting if he’s reluctant to go alone?  He may not be.

Whatever you can do to just be an open ear and comfortable safe confidant is all it takes.

It sounds to me like he’s very lucky to have you as a friend/Co-worker. 

 

Edited by Reagan1k
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I think he could get everything on this board and much more through attending AA meetings and good sponsorship.
Have you considered offering to accompany him to an open meeting if he’s reluctant to go alone?  He may not be.
Whatever you can do to just be an open ear and comfortable safe confidant is all it takes.
It sounds to me like he’s very luck to have you as a friend/Co-worker. 
 

Man, I would be more than happy to go with him if he wanted. There was a time where I wondered if I had a problem so in a 10% way I understand on a small scale.

At this point I am afraid of running the risk of some know it all so I try my best not to push too much. I appreciate the kind words. I just want people to succeed.


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Stopped in to check on the thread and it was bumped to page 2.  

Was at a meeting on Sunday.  It is an outdoor meeting right by the Chattahoochee River in Atlanta.  Was reminded of something I heard the head of the spiritual leader at my treatment center say a couple of times, then later read in Douglas Hime's book, "Higher Power."     Mr. Hime was actually in a small group early in my rehab stay.  Former patients come back to the treatment center for different types of meetings.  There are about 10 different breakout groups and I just happened to be in his.  I didn't know who he was at the time but I got his name and later, in the book store, I recognized his name on the cover of the book.  He wasn't at the rehab meeting in any official capacity.  Just a former patient coming back to attend a meeting.

Anyway, he was talking about the difference between religion and spirituality.  Religion is a guy in church, thinking about fishing.  Spirituality is a guy fishing, thinking about God.   

Hope everyone has a great week.

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On 9/13/2020 at 8:33 PM, Reagan1k said:

I think he could get everything on this board and much more through attending AA meetings and good sponsorship.

Have you considered offering to accompany him to an open meeting if he’s reluctant to go alone?  He may not be.

Whatever you can do to just be an open ear and comfortable safe confidant is all it takes.

It sounds to me like he’s very lucky to have you as a friend/Co-worker. 

 

Yep. what you see here is pretty much like an AA meeting.  Just a bunch of dudes/ettes sharing hope, strength, and experience.

It is, however, an AA meeting low on the formality and high in likemindedness and "social strata" if you will.

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3 hours ago, hullabelew said:

Stopped in to check on the thread and it was bumped to page 2.  

Was at a meeting on Sunday.  It is an outdoor meeting right by the Chattahoochee River in Atlanta.  Was reminded of something I heard the head of the spiritual leader at my treatment center say a couple of times, then later read in Douglas Hime's book, "Higher Power."     Mr. Hime was actually in a small group early in my rehab stay.  Former patients come back to the treatment center for different types of meetings.  There are about 10 different breakout groups and I just happened to be in his.  I didn't know who he was at the time but I got his name and later, in the book store, I recognized his name on the cover of the book.  He wasn't at the rehab meeting in any official capacity.  Just a former patient coming back to attend a meeting.

Anyway, he was talking about the difference between religion and spirituality.  Religion is a guy in church, thinking about fishing.  Spirituality is a guy fishing, thinking about God.   

Hope everyone has a great week.

That's an amazing analogy.

I can really relate to that.  All my life I had such a problem rationalizing the questions I had about religion vs. what I believed in a spiritual sense.  

I had so intertwined my self constructed theory in which I had to "believe" everything that my religion taught me in order to be spiritual, that I doubted everything, believed nothing, and was unable to have a relationship with a higher power.

The concept of a god of my own understanding was such a freeing notion for me.  I had always felt most spiritual when I was "the guy fishing".  However, if you put me in a church pew listening to a sermon about water turning to wine or seven loaves of Sunbeam and a few mullet feeding 1000's, all that evaporated.

To me, having a conscious relationship with my higher power is an equivalent or greater miracle that the obsession to drink was lifted from me.  I now enjoy "church" and can take the messages I need for my life and leave the rest with no guilt or shame.

Thank you so much for sharing that.

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1 minute ago, Celery Man said:

It's a lot longer from desire chip to 1 month than from 3 months to 6 months. Keep at it.

1,000 nights. 

I'm definitely not counting days anymore. Still hitting a meeting every day. Probably just finished 90 in 90. 6 months will be a big deal for me. 

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On 7/16/2020 at 10:54 PM, JohnnyRage said:

I probably shared this before...

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/25/entertainment/dax-shepard-addiction-opioid-trnd/index.html

 

The 12 and 12 for Tradition 1 states that unity is the most important characteristic in the hive of A.A.

What is the most important for the individual, brutal honesty?

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Yesterday I was reminded once again after 22 years sober that acceptance is the answer to all of my problems.  The short version is that on Thursday I presented an option in an email for a problem that the owner of my company has been troubled by for the last few months. Included in the email were five other team members who have been involved with finding a solution.  I came to work on Friday and saw a response from the boss that in essence, was a scathing rejection of my proposal along with a harsh judgment of my performance and my assistant.  My initial reaction was not pausing when agitated or doubtful, but how dare that ungrateful #(%_+! treat me like that.  What little hair I have left stood up, my neck became red, breathing labored, and blood pressure probably spiked! Fortunately, that reaction did not play anywhere but in my magical magnifying mind and after a brief time in the self pity ditch, I went outside and asked the God of my understanding to help me accept this response and learn from it what I can do to make it better.  Also, I asked for my higher power to bless the owner who hired me 22 years ago and thanked Him for my job.  I have learned that it is hard to be an insturment of peace when you want to go scorched earth over a situation which you have no power over.  It is also a short distance from Camelot to Armageddon when relying on your own understanding.  Just as promised, serenity was restored in short order, I did not have to drink at something that did not live up to my expectations, no amends are necessary, still employed, and shared this story at the 7am zoom meeting which I chaired today.  Have a great day y'all.

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