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The Robert Mueller Investigation


Hugo Stiglitz

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Just now, Chooky said:

Switching Tablet to Anastasis Mode:  It was tacky of Trump to criticize McCain, but the reality is that McCain is a dead, cowardly moron who is dead. /gif that in no way relates to anything at all 

I really think that you are capable of much better. McCain isn’t even good subject matter. I hated McCain’s politics and esp foreign policy positions long before trump came on the scene. If I am going to get the Chooky treatment I expect you at least bring some of that prime grade shit to the table. 

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22 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It certainly wasn't a bet.  I'll donate the $50 regardless.  Maybe he'll do the same.

I think it’s a great idea and wish more of this happened through this website actually. $50 donation below. If you haven’t already donated I can send you a link to the  one I donated at below. 

BBE18-E11-6821-4804-B959-FD38-AA2879-D6.

 

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Just now, Bozo_Casanova said:

What’s happening?

This is basically a proxy for the people who think the world is flat. No matter what science presents them, they are going to hold on to their cray cray ... to much invested in Russian hackers to let it go. They're like Geraldo opening Al Capone's vault - no matter how much dirt and broken glass is shown on live TV, they're convinced there was gold behind those bricks.

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1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

What’s happening?

Anastasis acknowledged that summer temperatures in Phoenix are awful but he finds it suspicious how you are so reluctant to talk about Hell.  Yeah, keep pretending like you've never been to Hell.

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2 minutes ago, Kyle said:

This is basically a proxy for the people who think the world is flat. No matter what science presents them, they are going to hold on to their cray cray ... to much invested in Russian hackers to let it go. They're like Geraldo opening Al Capone's vault - no matter how much dirt and broken glass is shown on live TV, they're convinced there was gold behind those bricks.

The problem with that analogy is that everyone got to watch Geraldo open the vault.  Geraldo didn't just barely crack the door, peak inside and say "Holy Prohibition Era!  There he is.  This place smells like dead Capone.  Welp, goodnight folks."

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5 hours ago, bolverk said:

For one, we know Trump is lying.

  • He tried to make a deal with Putin for the tower while campaigning as president.
  • His son met with someone who promised dirt with someone who stated that the Russian government wanted to help the campaign.
  • His son-in-law attempted to create a backchannel for communications with Russia.
  • His campaign succeeded in changing the Republican Pary platform in favor of Russia.
  • His advisor tried to work a deal to lift sanctions before Trump was president.

Being angry about these accusations isn't a thing because these are all actual facts that took place. An honest man would want them investigated because they are all shady as shit.

Because you haven't yet addressed the evidence that was laid out for you showing that Putin wanted him elected, I'm questioning whether you ever actually wanted an "honest and unbiased" answer. Instead, I think you're just playing dumb and simply "asking questions" at this point.

In other words, I feel like I'm addressing someone who is not interested in an "honest and unbiased" answer.

He tried to make a deal with Putin for the tower while campaigning as president. - A real estate developer doing deals isn't interesting at all. What makes it interesting is that he was running for president at didn't divest his corporate interests. As I've said many times, he should have done so, at least once he was elected. In any case, I don't think he thought he was going to win, so he kept going about his private business. 

His son met with someone who promised dirt with someone who stated that the Russian government wanted to help the campaign. - This is called opposition research, everyone does it, and so it is nothing. Hillary did the same exact thing.

His son-in-law attempted to create a backchannel for communications with Russia. - This was after the election. It is not an uncommon thing for people in those positions to do. What do you even mean by posting this? It's not wrong, it's common practice.

His campaign succeeded in changing the Republican Party platform in favor of Russia. - Don't know what this is about. I don't really care. His sanctions are more severe than Obama's were. His ACTUAL POLICY towards Russia is harsher than Obama's. Party platforms are irrelevant. 

His advisor tried to work a deal to lift sanctions before Trump was president. - Flynn was engaging in what normal people call "diplomacy". He knew the Russians were hurting, and maybe sort of teased them with something, which they would get in exchange for giving us something. That's called problems solving, aka making deals, aka diplomacy. 

You've listed a series of totally innoccuous things, dressed up to sound really shady. There's no there there. 

If you think Trump did something terrible, or illegal, lay out the facts. But you can't do that, because you don't have them. It's really embarrassing. 

I do enjoy how you say "Trump is lying". As if this is some sort of surprise. Breaking news, American didn't save $2500 per family. They didn't get to keep their doctor or their health insurance. There were no WMDs in Iraq. How fucking gullible are you? 

 

5 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'll donate $50 to a legit charity (say Mobile Loaves & Fishes) if he actually engages you honestly about these issues.  I think you're tilting at windmills (which can lead to cancer).

I'll be expecting you to post a receipt.You should really up the number $50 is for pussy bitches.

Edited by Thetexashammer
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1 minute ago, Thetexashammer said:

I'll be expecting you to post a receipt.You should really up the number $50 is nothing.

Well, let me walk you through this:

1.  my offer was re: Enchubben's response, and he completely failed as I predicted.

2.  your response is as full of bullshit as I expected Enchubben MIGHT rise to, but hey, at least you responded

3.  I already posted the fucking receipt, Ace

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Just now, jimmyjazz said:

Well, let me walk you through this:

1.  my offer was re: Enchubben's response, and he completely failed as I predicted.

2.  your response is as full of bullshit as I expected Enchubben MIGHT rise to, but hey, at least you responded

3.  I already posted the fucking receipt, Ace

In your words, what do those facts prove?

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2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

They prove that Donald Trump is in deep with our worst enemy.

Which fact makes you think that. Name one and explain it. Four investigations, the entire resources of the federal government, turned up nothing. What do you know that they didn't?

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3 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Which fact makes you think that. Name one and explain it. Four investigations, the entire resources of the federal government, turned up nothing. What do you know that they didn't?

Nope, I'm not going over it again.  We've all done it.  It's been done today, by several people.  You're lying.  You know the truth, you're just a traitor.  That's it.  You're irredeemable.

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8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Nope, I'm not going over it again.  We've all done it.  It's been done today, by several people.  You're lying.  You know the truth, you're just a traitor.  That's it.  You're irredeemable.

When you run into a crazy person in the morning, you ran into a crazy person. When you run into crazy people all day long............[/Raylan]

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It's just such a counterproductive line of thought.  No, "we" aren't our own worst enemy.  The administration is in the hunt.  The Republican party is in the hunt.  Those who support them are in the hunt.

Your ability to completely destroy even the most coarse differences is truly impressive.  You have a binary worldview -- all are good or all are bad.  All can't be good, so all are bad.  Works for you, I guess.

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3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's just such a counterproductive line of thought.  No, "we" aren't our own worst enemy.  The administration is in the hunt.  The Republican party is in the hunt.  Those who support them are in the hunt.

...You have a binary worldview

...Works for you, I guess.

I am not sure that I am the one with a binary worldview. Bothsides by some measure requires an appreciation of the unity of the situation. 

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You have a binary worldview and only see things in black and white!

I don't see things in binary.

It's binary whether you believe it or not, everything is black and white, you just refuse the distinction!

OK. 

Edited by Anastasis
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11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I absolutely believe you think you see shades of gray.  I think you're fooling yourself.

At any rate, I have to drive to SA at 5:45 AM for a soccer tournament.  'night.

All good. Pretty sure our local games got rained out. Kids in bed, bourbon poured, about to go knock out the rest of GOT season 7. 

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49 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

. . . you're running into conservatives all day long.

You have no elements of a deal. There are three elements: (1) An agreement, (2) something Putin does for Trump, (3) something Trump does for Putin. You have ZERO elements of any deal. None. You don't have three. You don't have two. You don't have one. You have none.

And yet you declare victory.

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37 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

You have a binary worldview and only see things in black and white!

I don't see things in binary.

It's binary whether you believe it or not, everything is black and white, you just refuse the distinction!

OK. 

You keep telling yourself that chief. 

Or just keep pretending you tell yourself that by telling us you tell yourself that on this board.

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6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Tell me about it. 

Sure thing.

I’ve decided trump is 100 percent your fault. The trump and trumpkins dont know any better, but you do.

You blame America and both sides for everything, instead of trump and his supporters.  So your complicit and because you blame America and both sides for trump, I blame you. Basically this is all your fault. 

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45 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

You have no elements of a deal. There are three elements: (1) An agreement????, (2) something Putin does for Trump,SUPPORT TRUMP'S BULLSHIT DENIAL OF RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE, 'CAUSE THE BABY DOES NOT WANT ANYONE TO SAY HE DID NOT WIN IT HIMSELF LIKE A BIG BOY...AND OH YEAH, STEAL AND RELEASE INFO STOLEN  FROM DEMS, HAS TROLL FARMS DEVOTED TO HELPING TRUMP WIN  (3) something Trump does for Putin. SUCKS HIM OFF ON THE WORLD STAGE, FUCKS WITH NATO, ATTACKS THE US INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY You have ZERO elements of any deal. None. You don't have three. You don't have two. You don't have one. You have none.

And yet you declare victory.

Are you a complete moron?  We have 2 out of 3 and Trump lying about both, which in reality world makes an agreement a real possibility.   Hence the Mueller investigation. You tards insist that there is nothing to see and it is all a figment of Lib imagination.  Foreign intelligence communities approached us with concerns for God's sake.   'You don't have one'  Really?? 

 

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14 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I actually never said those things. What I do believe is that our political system has evolved into a dysfunctional duopoly that has been captured by non-democratic interests, polarizing not only the political apparatus but creating a polarization feedback loop with the electorate, resulting in an environment where political compromise is not achievable and rational voices are marginalized in favor of the lunatics.  I believe that we are in a political and cultural death spiral that has been fed the energy of a dysfunctional electorate channeled through the corruption of a two party political system.  And yes, until we start actually addressing that, nothing else really matters. 

Wordiest Both Sides Ever.

 

If we can just get some OTHER parties involved in the political process, that can just boat race the GOP on # of indictments and convictions spanning multiple modern administrations even MORE than the Democrats already have, then...oh yes, then...THEN we can excruciatingly inch to a better tomorrow.

 

...not till then though. Need to find Yay Good! Party.

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4 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Not surprising to me that that the nuance of that post is lost on you. 

That's the thing. There's almost no nuance. It's pretty close to a cartoon level of black and white. If ESPN did a 30 for 30 of the Trump campaign, Trump publicly sucking Wikileaks like a peacock is front center, only to be claimed *dramatic piano strike* unknowed by the head of only political party on Earth that denies climate science. There is no more nth degree. That would be the end for any other administration. That's Al Gore and the internet times ten, but it's only this week, cuz it will be forgotten, excused by his supporters and enablers and surpassed next week. To imply "no...i need to see the head of the GOP do ...???...something really off the rails before I perhaps consider the duopoly of our political system may not top the priority list" is fucking asinine. The obvious is not going to hit you harder in the face than it already is.

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I might be wrong, but I'm thinking the "our duopilist (TM) governmental dysfunction is the real problem" perspective seems to get rolled out against a leftist or anti-Trump perspective about 10X more than it does against a conservative or pro-Trump perspective.  

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15 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I might be wrong, but I'm thinking the "our duopilist (TM) governmental dysfunction is the real problem" perspective seems to get rolled out against a leftist or anti-Trump perspective about 10X more than it does against a conservative or pro-Trump perspective.  

It’s a convenient perspective that will always effectively pander to the opposition of action regardless of party.  It’s the “everyone sucks, system is broken, government bad, woe is us, I’m so above it all the problem isn’t even worth my time to solve, nothing can be done.”   It’s the basic stage one demoralization worldview and it’s among our biggest obstacles to meaningful and practical solutions. 

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10 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

You have no elements of a deal. There are three elements: (1) An agreement, (2) something Putin does for Trump, (3) something Trump does for Putin. You have ZERO elements of any deal. None. You don't have three. You don't have two. You don't have one. You have none.

And yet you declare victory.

Who here thinks Hammer really is this stupid and who thinks he’s just gleefully peddling a really blatant lie because that’s what he considers fun?

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/barrs-spy-talk-emboldens-trumps-allies-ahead-of-mueller-report-release/2019/04/13/33ef0c12-5d35-11e9-b8e3-b03311fbbbfe_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.79768738b633

Barr’s spy talk emboldens Trump’s allies ahead of Mueller report’s release

Quote

For two years, President Trump’s most devoted allies have struggled to legitimize their accusations that the FBI conducted political spying on the Trump campaign in 2016 — at times openly feuding with Republican leaders over their grievances with the investigation of Russia’s election interference.

But on Wednesday, those assertions received their biggest boost yet, and from an unlikely source: Attorney General William P. Barr, who told a Senate subcommittee, “I think spying did occur, yes.”

Never mind that he later clarified that his use of the word was meant to describe surveillance generally, without making a judgment about whether it was appropriate. The moment set off a firestorm, with those who have defended the FBI complaining that the attorney general had legitimized an outlandish conspiracy theory — while those critical of the Russia probe have embraced his remarks as vindication of their cause. 

The reaction has underscored a deep distrust between Trump’s allies and top law enforcement officials, and between the Justice Department’s current and past leadership. And it has amplified the anxiety surrounding special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s report on the Russia investigation, a redacted version of which could be released within days.

“I just see it as a confirmation of the clear reality that sensible people have realized for a long time,” said Carter Page, the former Trump campaign adviser whose communications were secretly surveilled in late 2016 and early 2017 under a warrant from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. Page said he hoped Barr can fix what he characterized as the Justice Department’s “extensive wrongdoing and unconscionable practices.”

 
Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) said he plans to refer eight people to the Justice Department for criminal prosecution, specifically citing the FBI’s moves to obtain a surveillance warrant. He said he will meet with Barr to discuss his referrals. (Drew Angerer/Getty Images)
Trump’s allies in Congress have seized on Barr’s testimony to once again demand an “investigation of the investigator.” The president’s reelection campaign, meanwhile, is selling T-shirts depicting former president Barack Obama lurking in thick green shrubbery with a set of spy glasses. An advertisement circulated Friday night read: “AG Barr believes the Obama Admin illegally spied on Pres Trump. We Need Answers! Fight Back!”


George Terwilliger, who served with Barr in the Justice Department during the 1990s, defended the attorney general’s word choice, saying the term spying “covers a lot of ground,” and that “in common usage, frankly including in the press, it doesn’t just mean surveillance or electronic surveillance, it means the use of a variety of techniques” to obtain information and gather intelligence.

“I think to use an all-encompassing term like that was appropriate,” Terwilliger said.

Yet for those who worked on the Russia probe and other high-profile political investigations, Barr’s words were a below-the-belt attack. Current and former law enforcement officials have denied engaging in political spying, and they’ve said the investigation was conducted professionally based on available evidence. 

“It was highly irresponsible for the attorney general to have used such language,” said David Laufman, a former senior Justice Department national security official.

Pelosi calls Barr's spying comments 'dismaying and disappointing'
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Attorney General William P. Barr is "going off the rails," after he said there was "spying" on Trump's 2016 campaign. (Reuters)

Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.), said the attorney general “just destroyed . . . the scintilla of credibility that he had left in terms of being a fair and impartial person,” adding that Barr was using “the words of conspiracy theorists” by suggesting there was inappropriate spying. 


“We have very little faith that he’s going to be fair and dispassionate in terms of the redactions in the report,” Schumer said.

Current and former law enforcement officials have said the Russia investigation began in late July 2016, when a tip from a foreign diplomat led to concerns that George Papadopoulos, then a Trump campaign adviser, might have knowledge of Russian hacking efforts targeting Democrat Hillary Clinton to benefit the Trump campaign. Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee agreed with that timeline and noted as much in a report issued last year after reviewing the investigation.

Trump and his supporters have argued the investigation grew from different information — what they call flimsy and false allegations delivered to the FBI in a dossier of memos written by a former British intelligence officer. That document was the product of an opposition research project funded by a lawyer for the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign.


And while Trump’s supporters maintain that politically funded research played a significant role in justifying the FBI’s investigation of Trump and those close to him, current and former law enforcement officials insist they followed the rules, and that they would have been negligent not to investigate the alarming information they had received about a possible conspiracy between the Kremlin and Trump associates.   

“The FBI and the Justice Department were working strenuously to learn as much as possible, as quickly as possible, about the activities of a hostile foreign power to subvert our democratic system, and to characterize such efforts as ‘spying on a campaign’ both minimizes the seriousness of that threat and unfairly casts the efforts to counter it in a derogatory light,” Laufman said.

“The attorney general’s use of language similar to the inflammatory rhetoric used by the president and his political supporters now casts him in a distinctly more political light undermining public confidence in the independence and integrity of the department,’’ he said.


James B. Comey, who led the FBI when it opened the Russia investigation, expressed surprise at Barr’s comments.

“I really don’t know what he’s talking about when he talks about spying on the campaign,” Comey said Thursday at a Hewlett Foundation conference. “It’s concerning because the FBI and the Department of Justice conduct court-ordered electronic surveillance. I have never thought of that as spying. . . . If the attorney general has come to the belief that that should be called spying, wow.” 

How the Russia case was investigated and how investigators sought court approval to intercept Page’s communications are now the subject of a far-reaching internal investigation by Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz. Barr said the results of that work could appear by May or June. 


One area under examination is whether there are enough rules inside the Justice Department and FBI for investigations surrounding presidential candidates, according to people familiar with the matter. They spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing inquiry.

Barr said he is also making his own inquiries into the issue because he is concerned intelligence agencies may have crossed ethical lines established during the 1970s to prevent surveillance on purely political activity. Pressed by Democrats during his testimony to say whether he had any evidence to justify his concerns, Barr said, “I have no specific evidence that I would cite right now,” leaving open the possibility that he might do so at a later date.

Barr’s “spying” comments follow his late-March disclosure to Congress that Mueller did not establish a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin and did not reach a conclusion on whether Trump sought to obstruct justice during the investigation of his 2016 campaign. Barr said he and Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein weighed the evidence and found it insufficient to allege that Trump had obstructed justice.


The results of the investigation — combined with Barr’s suggestion that law enforcement may have done something questionable in initiating the Russia probe — creates a one-two punch that Republicans say puts them in the best position to combat whatever damaging information about the president may be contained in Mueller’s report.

 

In his letter to Congress, Barr said “most” of Trump’s actions that were scrutinized as potential obstruction of justice have “been the subject of public reports”— suggesting the full 400-page document is likely to produce at least some revelations.

Trump’s allies are already shifting their focus to the investigation’s origins. 

Last week, Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), former chair of the House Intelligence Committee, revealed plans to refer eight people to the Justice Department for criminal prosecution, specifically citing the FBI’s moves to obtain a surveillance warrant. He declined to identify whom he would name, but Nunes said he will meet with Barr to discuss his referrals.


Trump’s other top congressional allies, Reps. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.) and Jim Jordan (R-Ohio), have also been working with Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) on his plans to probe whether any anti-Trump bias existed and influenced law enforcement’s actions in investigating the Trump campaign.

They’re also calling on Horowitz to testify before Congress. 

“Accountability is certainly appropriate,” said Meadows, who alleged that there were “broken protocols at the Department of Justice” where Trump was concerned. “Attorney General Barr is dedicated to restoring the full reputation of the FBI and DOJ — even if it might be painful in the short run.”

When Republicans controlled the House last Congress, Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) tried to keep at bay the push by Meadows, Jordan and Nunes to aggressively investigate the origins of the Russia inquiry. With Ryan gone and Barr at Justice, Trump’s allies feel more confident their allegations will be taken seriously.

 

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