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The 2018 Hunting Thread


Bert Orange

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I hit a doe last year with my muzzle loader right before dark, and we tracked it for half a mile through the woods. Eventually the blood thinned out almost completely and we heard dogs barking in the direction we eventually tracked it to. Lost the trail where it hopped the fence into a neighbor's pasture. Didn't feel like getting shot that night and we never recovered the body.

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2 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

Coyotes are amazing too - pain in the ass...but amazing.

Story above happened to a friend, although his shot was off.  I was amazed the next AM when we found him pretty easily.   Bones picked clean to the neck. We stopped looking at midnight when we accidentally jumped him. So in 7 hours a large buck devoured.  Crazy. 

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On ‎1‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 10:17 AM, Reagan1k said:

Great buck....sorry you didn't find him in time but it happens.

They do amazing things.  It's little comfort to a hunter who's lost the deer after an ethical shot and responsible recover effort, but their flight response and core survival instinct carries a lot of them many 100's of yards in a state where they are literally dead on their feet but for adrenaline.

One of my guys shot a cull buck this year with his new .450 bushmaster.  Knocked the buck over and he got up and staggered about 40 yards and laid down just off the road.  They decided to go change times on a nearby feeder and swung back to pick him up 30 min later.  Blood everywhere at impact site, and a big pool of bright blood where he laid down, but he wasn't there. 

They called me and we started walking.  Steady blood trail showing he was bleeding from both an entry and exit.  Found chunks of lung and plate sized pools of bubbly lung blood.  Trail went on steady for about 800 yards in a big loop including where he had jumped an old stone fence 1/2 way through.  At about 1000 yards it started to get sporadic and then nothing.  We never found that deer even though he'd left most of his blood volume in the dirt. 

That should be impossible, but damn nature U scary.

I've killed hundreds of deer.  And learned pretty early I like the high shoulder shot when they are standing square to me.  Blow out both shoulders.  And good chance to clip their spinal cord from the concussion.  They cannot run off if you blow out both front shoulders.  There is not much meat I care for in the front shoulders anyway.  I like the hams, straps, tenders and neck meat.

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28 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I've killed hundreds of deer.  And learned pretty early I like the high shoulder shot when they are standing square to me.  Blow out both shoulders.  And good chance to clip their spinal cord from the concussion.  They cannot run off if you blow out both front shoulders.  There is not much meat I care for in the front shoulders anyway.  I like the hams, straps, tenders and neck meat.

I don't disagree with this at all.  We have an unwritten rule that if you are planning on shooting in a morning hunt and we have plans to leave after that hunt,  you shoulder shoot it so we don't have to chase it.  Bow hunting changes that dynamic obviously.

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This exact topic came up this past weekend.  My dad and I own the property (my dad owns majority), and he pretty much asked for two rules to be followed.  1) Don't drive off the existing dirt roads.  2) Shoot your deer in the shoulder.  I didn't give the second rule much thought, and honestly I'd shoot a doe or spike in the head without pause.

My BIL was out at our place this weekend.  He's shot a few pigs there this year (we just bought it in January), but hadn't harvested a deer yet.  He's very cognizant and respectful towards my dad.  He had a big axis doe come out Saturday morning.  I was texting with him from another stand and gave him the green light to shoot it.  He shoots an AR platform 6.5 Creedmoor.  Nice Vortex scope.  Great rifle.  Shoots straight and fast.  Well, he shoots her right behind the shoulder.  He said she dropped a bit then ran off.  We let her sit for an hour.  Got down.  Found bright red blood, so we're thinking lung shot.  We followed it for 100 yds, saw where she probably stopped for a second (pool of blood the size of a coaster), then nothing.  We searched the area for a few more hours and couldn't find where the trail picked back up.  The stand he was in is probably 400 yds from the back fence line and the blood trail was heading that way, so there's a chance she hopped the fence onto the neighbor's property.  We have his number and tried to call but no answer (older guy, lives in San Angelo).

The best we can figure, the shot went straight through.  My BIL was kicking himself for not shooting her in the head (<100 yd shot).  After a few beers, my dad started ribbing him for not shooting a "man's rifle".  He shoots a 30/30 or a 30-06.  It was all in good fun, but it sucks to lose an animal for sure.  I'm of the opinion that every shot is different, and as a shooter, you should take the shot that makes the most sense and can take the animal down quickly and efficiently.  If you're comfortable with a head shot, then take it.  If not, aim for the front shoulders and live with a little less meat.  I think the loss of an animal like that did give my dad pause and understand that a shoulder shot isn't always the right shot.  

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1 hour ago, Spaulding Smails said:

The best we can figure, the shot went straight through.  My BIL was kicking himself for not shooting her in the head (<100 yd shot).  After a few beers, my dad started ribbing him for not shooting a "man's rifle".  He shoots a 30/30 or a 30-06.  It was all in good fun, but it sucks to lose an animal for sure.  I'm of the opinion that every shot is different, and as a shooter, you should take the shot that makes the most sense and can take the animal down quickly and efficiently.  If you're comfortable with a head shot, then take it.  If not, aim for the front shoulders and live with a little less meat.  I think the loss of an animal like that did give my dad pause and understand that a shoulder shot isn't always the right shot.  

I'm torn on this one.  Had the conversation this AM that I've had more deer run with 130gr .270 WIn Super X in the 'breadbox' than with my 22-250 55gr PSP taken in the neck.  Not a fan of head shots as a lower jaw shot isn't fatal and can lead to extended suffering.

So turn off the lights.  Literally.  Soldiers have long lamented enemy combatants continuing to fight for up to 10min with multiple 5.56mm shots center mass and their heart/lungs shredded.  Sever the spine.  They drop like a puppet with cut strings.  Animal or man. 

It's a fairly large target (compared to the head) and cavitation wreaks havoc on the vertebrae/spinal cord.  I prefer forward of the shoulder, at the base of neck (versus near the base of the skull).  It shorts out their entire system.  Lights out.  

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20 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I'm torn on this one.  Had the conversation this AM that I've had more deer run with 130gr .270 WIn Super X in the 'breadbox' than with my 22-250 55gr PSP taken in the neck.  Not a fan of head shots as a lower jaw shot isn't fatal and can lead to extended suffering.

So turn off the lights.  Literally.  Soldiers have long lamented enemy combatants continuing to fight for up to 10min with multiple 5.56mm shots center mass and their heart/lungs shredded.  Sever the spine.  They drop like a puppet with cut strings.  Animal or man. 

It's a fairly large target (compared to the head) and cavitation wreaks havoc on the vertebrae/spinal cord.  I prefer forward of the shoulder, at the base of neck (versus near the base of the skull).  It shorts out their entire system.  Lights out.  

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That's well said.  And thanks for the illustration.  I agree on neck shots as well.  I'm fine with them, and to your point, it's an easier target than the head.   

I guess my stance is there's a justification for heart / lungs, front shoulder, neck, and head.  And each depends on the weapon, the shot and the shooter.  

I shot a nice 10 point 15 or so years ago and HAD to shoot him in the neck because I couldn't get him to stop as he meandered through the brush.  Then, I HAD to shoot the largest buck I've ever shot (11 point, scored in the low 150s) in the chest because I had to shoot him right handed and didn't trust myself on a smaller target.

Edited by Spaulding Smails
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11 minutes ago, Spaulding Smails said:

That's well said.  And thanks for the illustration.  I agree on neck shots as well.  I'm fine with them, and to your point, it's an easier target than the head.   

I guess my stance is there's a justification for heart / lungs, front shoulder, neck, and head.  And each depends on the weapon, the shot and the shooter.  

I shot a nice 10 point 15 or so years ago and HAD to shoot him in the neck because I couldn't get him to stop as he meandered through the brush.  Then, I HAD to shoot the largest buck I've ever shot (11 point, scored in the low 150s) in the chest because I had to shoot him right handed and didn't trust myself on a smaller target.

Let's all be honest here.  With the quality of modern optics, ammunition, triggers, and barrels any shot < 200yds over a target any bigger than a baseball shouldn't be difficult.  That's on the shooter.  We have an ethical obligation to make consistent, terminal shots.  Situational preparedness is a part of this.  Being able to vary your shots is a part of that.  If it take a Lead-Sled and a insulated hunting blind to make a kill shot.....maybe there's more there than you are aware of?  Having a working anatomical understanding of the animal is a part of this.  Know your craft.  

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Not a fan of head shots anymore.  Know several ranchers and outfitters who prohibit them due to lower jaw shots and needless suffering.  That's a tight window in a hunting scenario.   I've done it but have changed my view of it to the negative after seeing customers hit 2 doe in consecutive seasons and watched those deer suffer for days until I could find them and put them down.  Both hunters were experienced and I've seen them shoot well.  It doesn't take much of a miss to create a bad situation on a head shot.

 

 

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I guide a few hunters every year and cull a lot of deer every year.  In my experience and what I have seen in the field, bullet construction makes a tremendous difference in overall outcome.  In most instances, when we have trouble finding a deer, too tough of a bullet has been used.  I am happiest when a hunter shows up with a green box of Core Lokt or blue box of Federal soft points.  Caliber does not matter(much).  I hate it when a hunter shows up with his custom rifle with the hottest new magnum caliber and handloads of the latest Barnes LRX, Accubond Long Range, or other such bonded/copper bullets.  They are too hard and do not cause the cavitation, hydraulic/hydrostatic effects that create bang/flops, blood trails a blind person could follow, etc....  I have been reloading for over 40 years and deer are just not that hard to kill.  Straight thru the shoulders will result in an anchored deer.  Cannot go far with the 2 front wheels broken.  Angling to take the plumbing out of the top of the heart results in an instant loss of blood pressure and loss of consciousness.  High shoulder shots will also wreck the plumbing and possibly shock the spinal cord resulting in an instant drop.  

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59 minutes ago, Gladeite said:

I guide a few hunters every year and cull a lot of deer every year.  In my experience and what I have seen in the field, bullet construction makes a tremendous difference in overall outcome.  In most instances, when we have trouble finding a deer, too tough of a bullet has been used.  I am happiest when a hunter shows up with a green box of Core Lokt or blue box of Federal soft points.  Caliber does not matter(much).  I hate it when a hunter shows up with his custom rifle with the hottest new magnum caliber and handloads of the latest Barnes LRX, Accubond Long Range, or other such bonded/copper bullets.  They are too hard and do not cause the cavitation, hydraulic/hydrostatic effects that create bang/flops, blood trails a blind person could follow, etc....  I have been reloading for over 40 years and deer are just not that hard to kill.  Straight thru the shoulders will result in an anchored deer.  Cannot go far with the 2 front wheels broken.  Angling to take the plumbing out of the top of the heart results in an instant loss of blood pressure and loss of consciousness.  High shoulder shots will also wreck the plumbing and possibly shock the spinal cord resulting in an instant drop.  

Definitely agree with the soft-points doing the job.  I learned that when I was a high school kid with my new 10/22.  I put 5 fancy high speed copper jacketed rounds right through a jackrabbit, who hopped off.  I switched out to softer points (which, granted, have a tougher time cycling through an auto), and one round would put a bunny down.

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Listen to T’boo. Weinert/Rochester/Knox city/ Seymour is and has been loaded with geese since the late 90’s (thanks peanut farmers). Stanfield Outfitters in Knox City can take care of you.
Knox City has slowed way down in goose numbers. Not as many peanut farmers as there use to be and every Tom, Dik, and Harry have turned into guides. That has put a bunch of pressure on them.
I thought Stanfield moved their operations to Oklahoma.
Lubbock or the panhandle is where the bigger concentration of geese are now.
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On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 4:28 PM, Gladeite said:

I guide a few hunters every year and cull a lot of deer every year.  In my experience and what I have seen in the field, bullet construction makes a tremendous difference in overall outcome.  In most instances, when we have trouble finding a deer, too tough of a bullet has been used.  I am happiest when a hunter shows up with a green box of Core Lokt or blue box of Federal soft points.  Caliber does not matter(much).  I hate it when a hunter shows up with his custom rifle with the hottest new magnum caliber and handloads of the latest Barnes LRX, Accubond Long Range, or other such bonded/copper bullets.  They are too hard and do not cause the cavitation, hydraulic/hydrostatic effects that create bang/flops, blood trails a blind person could follow, etc....  I have been reloading for over 40 years and deer are just not that hard to kill.  Straight thru the shoulders will result in an anchored deer.  Cannot go far with the 2 front wheels broken.  Angling to take the plumbing out of the top of the heart results in an instant loss of blood pressure and loss of consciousness.  High shoulder shots will also wreck the plumbing and possibly shock the spinal cord resulting in an instant drop.   

This is all spot on from my experience hunting my entire life and a couple decades on a large MLD high fenced place where we have to kill 200-300 deer a year.

I personally feel head shots are unethical, especially from the side.  Too easy to blow off their jaw and cause days of agony before death.  Even if you're a great shot, it's 100 yards or less, and your gun is sub MOA, it can still happen.  Deer move their heads around too much.  I think a lot of people who take head shots do it to pretend they are some badass sniper or are vain.  You should test your shooting on paper.  Not animals.  Clean and quick kills are the only way.  For me, that is a high shoulder shot.  

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On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 12:25 PM, Spaulding Smails said:

This exact topic came up this past weekend.  My dad and I own the property (my dad owns majority), and he pretty much asked for two rules to be followed.  1) Don't drive off the existing dirt roads.  2) Shoot your deer in the shoulder.  I didn't give the second rule much thought, and honestly I'd shoot a doe or spike in the head without pause.

My BIL was out at our place this weekend.  He's shot a few pigs there this year (we just bought it in January), but hadn't harvested a deer yet.  He's very cognizant and respectful towards my dad.  He had a big axis doe come out Saturday morning.  I was texting with him from another stand and gave him the green light to shoot it.  He shoots an AR platform 6.5 Creedmoor.  Nice Vortex scope.  Great rifle.  Shoots straight and fast.  Well, he shoots her right behind the shoulder.  He said she dropped a bit then ran off.  We let her sit for an hour.  Got down.  Found bright red blood, so we're thinking lung shot.  We followed it for 100 yds, saw where she probably stopped for a second (pool of blood the size of a coaster), then nothing.  We searched the area for a few more hours and couldn't find where the trail picked back up.  The stand he was in is probably 400 yds from the back fence line and the blood trail was heading that way, so there's a chance she hopped the fence onto the neighbor's property.  We have his number and tried to call but no answer (older guy, lives in San Angelo). 

The best we can figure, the shot went straight through.  My BIL was kicking himself for not shooting her in the head (<100 yd shot).  After a few beers, my dad started ribbing him for not shooting a "man's rifle".  He shoots a 30/30 or a 30-06.  It was all in good fun, but it sucks to lose an animal for sure.  I'm of the opinion that every shot is different, and as a shooter, you should take the shot that makes the most sense and can take the animal down quickly and efficiently.  If you're comfortable with a head shot, then take it.  If not, aim for the front shoulders and live with a little less meat.  I think the loss of an animal like that did give my dad pause and understand that a shoulder shot isn't always the right shot.  

He should have shot it through the shoulders, not behind it.  Behind shoulder shots are usually fine.  But the deer will almost always run 100 yards or so.

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10 hours ago, Both Tacos said:

Looks like it's going to be a cold one in North Texas this weekend for duck hunting. Maybe all the shallow water in the fields will freeze up and concentrate the birds.

I hope so.  I am heading up there Saturday for a sunday morning hunt.  Gonna be a cold mofo, but I hope it drives the ducks out.  

Edited by pepper brooks
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Daughter has a soccer tourney in Vegas this weekend.  Do I get to go?  Of course not.  Get to go to the ranch then?  Right?  Nope......son has a soccer tournament also scheduled at the 11th hour for this weekend as well.

I have apparently angered the hunting gods......I will try and make a brisket offering to appease them.  

:(

 

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2 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

Was there anything he didn’t kill with his .270?

I know he said he shot something like 100 elk with his .270.  Jack O'Connor is why in the mid-80s I bought my Remington 700 ADL chambered in .270. I might've paid a premium for a pre-1964 Winchester Model 70, but money was tight in those days, and the reviews on the post-1963 Model 70s seemed mixed at best. Later, I find out that even O'Connor himself thought some features of the newer model were better, some worse.  Reviews were a lot harder to come by in 1986 (FYI to the young pups lol).  Besides, the Remington 700 ADL was on sale, and I liked the wood grain on the one the store brought out.  I could have had a BDL with a detachable box magazine rather than a fixed magazine for $30-40 more, but like I said, money was tight.  I have no regrets.

Edited by ImissWallyPryor
can't spell
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As you can tell in the gun owners tread, I’ve been collecting some model 70’s lately, and additionally what will become model 70’s (select super grade stocks that will need donors). Would love to get my hands on one of the O’Connor tribute rifles they did a few years ago. Rarely see them up for sale though. 

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Here they are giving the thumbs up.
Skinning and quartering on Sunday was a chore. Ran out of room to hang so a couple had to wait on the floor of the cooler.2a682808a4c266d72cc2753d79fa50ad.jpg98588d3095a3bb426c762510b3b27a6f.jpg
Spent the last 2 nights processing the deer. Vacuumed sealed tenderloins, backstraps, roasts and cubed up meat for sausage and hamburger to be done later on. Lots of work but should be set on good clean meat for awhile. 03c24077b4423d3a5234079b957f6464.jpg2c50da435728541f1461e2d5246e57f9.jpg
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8 hours ago, Both Tacos said:

Spent the last 2 nights processing the deer. Vacuumed sealed tenderloins, backstraps, roasts and cubed up meat for sausage and hamburger to be done later on. Lots of work but should be set on good clean meat for awhile. 03c24077b4423d3a5234079b957f6464.jpg2c50da435728541f1461e2d5246e57f9.jpg

Another reminder I need a new vacuum sealer....

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On 1/20/2019 at 3:20 PM, ImissWallyPryor said:

I know he said he shot something like 100 elk with his .270.  Jack O'Connor is why in the mid-80s I bought my Remington 700 ADL chambered in .270. I might've paid a premium for a pre-1964 Winchester Model 70, but money was tight in those days, and the reviews on the post-1963 Model 70s seemed mixed at best. Later, I find out that even O'Connor himself thought some features of the newer model were better, some worse.  Reviews were a lot harder to come by in 1986 (FYI to the young pups lol).  Besides, the Remington 700 ADL was on sale, and I liked the wood grain on the one the store brought out.  I could have had a BDL with a detachable box magazine rather than a fixed magazine for $30-40 more, but like I said, money was tight.  I have no regrets.

My father was a PH in the 60’s and had a hundred tales of guys getting out of the plane with something along the lines of a .375 H&H in tow. Most were scared to death of the severe recoil. And inevitably would put their fears on display in front of the group when they couldn’t handle the simple cold barrel sight in exercise required by all of the PH’s prior to the hunt. The results of that exercise oftentimes  determined whether they would carry in a .270 or 30-06 as loaners.

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11 hours ago, Scooter Monzingo said:

My father was a PH in the 60’s and had a hundred tales of guys getting out of the plane with something along the lines of a .375 H&H in tow. Most were scared to death of the severe recoil. And inevitably would put their fears on display in front of the group when they couldn’t handle the simple cold barrel sight in exercise required by all of the PH’s prior to the hunt. The results of that exercise oftentimes  determined whether they would carry in a .270 or 30-06 as loaners

Golfers and hunters.  Notorious for using too big a caliber and and clubs with not enough flex for their slower swing speeds.  There are times (primarily safari) where the .375 is suitable.  I've fired quite a few.  They'll get your attention.  In North America, you can auger in with a .30 cal rifle and be just fine.  From Elk to Moose to bear.  With the proper placement.  You'll do just fine.  

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3 minutes ago, Llano Estacado said:

 


That’s it! Dibs. Typing up my resignation letter now. Going to develop the Estacado .3xx Auger a wildcat from a .375 H&H parent.

See y’all in the funny papers.

 

Pew.  Pew.  Pew.

.375 H&H already is enshrined in annuls of history for it's famous offspring:  necked down & shortened (or pushed out for the .458 Win Mag) .375's gave us the 264 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, .300 Win Mag, and .350 Norma Mag.

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