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Posted
1 minute ago, Codaxx said:

I thought he looked decent vs Florida. I dont think many QBs would have looked much better facing 45 pressures. Lot of those pressures are coming from whiffs at the guard and center position, which is just death to any QB. How much do you miss your whipping boys Hayden Connor and Jake Majors now? 

Even though he was under pressure he had wide open guys he didn’t hit or check downs he didn’t hit. 

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Posted

What's crazy is with all of Arch's obvious struggles, I'm convinced Sark fully believes in Arch's ability and potential based on his puzzling game plans. 

The UTEP game was a full blown disaster. Then against a really shitty SHSU, Arch played well. I  won't oversell it, there's only so much you can do vs. SHSU to make people feel better. But he executed. 

Then vs. FLA, Sark tried to unleash Arch. Tons of deep routes and hero ball play calling. Arch had 15 carries, RBs had 11 carries for 15 yards. His game plan was to put everything in Arch's hands. DIdn't help that defense played poorly, but still. 

Manning was battered and bruised after that game, so much so that Sark praised him for taking every starter snap in practice that week. The game plan devised for OU was clearly designed to protect Arch. Run the ball, short/immediate quick passing attack, and only a few Arch runs where we started to see him sliding. He plays an efficient game, didn't take many hits, and we get a nice win. 

I guess Sark felt good again, so he decided to return to fully depending on Arch offensively. Scrapped the running game, kept him mostly in the pocket throwing where he got hammered by the defense again. 

Hopefully Sark has learned his lesson at this point. Run the ball, get Arch in a rhythm with short passing attack first. If we run successfully and keep the pass rush from teeing off, then take some shots downfield. It feels like he's trying to skip steps in the process. Like he's in denial with what we've seen with Arch on the field so far. 

 

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Posted
13 hours ago, Bevoette said:

If all the pressure and our O line sucking wasn't a factor? Would he BE great? 

I am honestly not sure based on his accuracy and slow processing issues.  make no mistake those ARE problems, as is Sarks playcalling...but we've seen way too many balls hit the dirt, over throw, underthrow, too far behind to say he'd be great with a better OL and no pressure.

13 hours ago, Hank_Hill said:

Arch has looked like shit and missed wide open throws even when the pocket has been clean. See the Ohio State game.

Pretty much

9 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

Arch is a football player. He isn't yet a QB. I still think he gets there. 

I want to believe this...I HOPE he does. He just hasn't shown it but maybe in one game this year(not counting SHST) and even against OU there were some bad signs mixed in with the good. And I'd take that if it had followed to Kentucky.

1 hour ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

It would be nice if he'd show some progress towards that but all I'm seeing is consistent shittiness. I agree that the oline sucks but he misses wide open receivers more than he hits them.  

All fo this.

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Arch is so fucking bad it’s hard to be worse. If we lose another game there is no reason not to try something different. Why after decades of bitching for backup QBs can we not use a backup QB when we desperately need to?


Why can’t he be benched? 

This is where I'm at...maybe Caldwell or whoever isn't any better, but maybe, just maybe they are...and while I don't think anyone will provide the amazing plays Arch can at times, I do think someone else might be able to run the offense to the point where they move the chains by simply hitting a guy who's open.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Even though he was under pressure he had wide open guys he didn’t hit or check downs he didn’t hit. 

Did a guy with 7 starts miss a few guys with 45 pressures in a game? No fucking shit. there isnt a QB that would not miss guys in that environment. People say stupid shit like "missed guys when he had time". No shit, when QBs face pressure like that they get sped up. Like I said gameplan matters. Pressure rate was higher vs Florida than OU, but both were bad. The results were as different as the game plans. Turns out emphasizing the short pass behind a bad OL (4.2 aDOT vs OU) is better than the long pass (17+ aDOT vs Florida). Manning definitely needs to improve, but he is getting next to 0 help. 

Edited by Codaxx
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Posted
Just now, BabaYaga said:

El, oh, el.....

I understand the pessimism, but that Kentucky game plan and performance, particularly after the OU win, was so unacceptable that you can't find a way to excuse it. I wouldn't be surprised if CDC voiced some concern to Sark. His job is safe right now, but that was a major red flag you can't shrug off. 

The Mississippi State game is gonna tell us a lot. 

 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Drew said:

I am honestly not sure based on his accuracy and slow processing issues.  make no mistake those ARE problems, as is Sarks playcalling...but we've seen way too many balls hit the dirt, over throw, underthrow, too far behind to say he'd be great with a better OL and no pressure.

 

This is the bottom line. He can’t get the ball out on time even when his 1st read is wide open and his mechanics are so bad he physically cannot be accurate. The one time per game he hits a guy in stride, it’s probably luck because his feet are still bad. Ewers had his limitations but he’d at least hit the easy throws. Arch doesn’t do that and his decent running ability doesn’t make up for it. We haven’t had to put up with this level of QB play since Ehlinger’s freshman season. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Did a guy with 7 starts miss a few guys with 45 pressures in a game? No fucking shit. there isnt a QB that would not miss guys in that environment. People say stupid shit like "missed guys when he had time". No shit, when QBs face pressure like that they get sped up. Like I said gameplan matters. Pressure rate was higher vs Florida than OU, but both were bad. The results were as different as the game plans. Turns out emphasizing the short pass behind a bad OL (4.2 aDOT vs OU) is better than the long pass (17+ aDOT vs Florida). Manning definitely needs to improve, but he is getting next to 0 help. 

nah bruh, that IS an excuse when he's under pressure or when he's getting killed. He's actually really good at avoiding big hits and sacks.  He hasn't been taking big hits even with all the pressure.

I'm sorry, when the guy is open, and you have time, you have to hit him. You can't blame it on "well he was pressured the play before so of course he missed that one", it's a silly take.

Edited by Drew
Posted
10 minutes ago, Drew said:

nah bruh, that IS an excuse when he's under pressure or when he's getting killed. He's actually really good at avoiding big hits and sacks.  He hasn't been taking big hits even with all the pressure.

He got destroyed vs. Kentucky. Big hits all over the place, including his last run of the game.  Not many QBs out there that can finish a game with that type of beating. 

I mean, look at this shit. 

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Are we basing this on his one snap vs UF or the trash time vs Sam Houston St. and San Jose St? 

You mean how we are basing Manning being good by his play vs the two worst football teams we played last year? 

Posted
1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

He got destroyed vs. Kentucky. Big hits all over the place, including his last run of the game.  Not many QBs out there that can finish a game with that type of beating. 

I mean, look at this shit. 

 

He is going to get worn down over the course of the season. He could beat up already. It just a nightmare environment for any QB. His consistency is the biggest issue, but hard to be consistent when you are the most pressured QB in the SEC. His upside is obvious, just have to see if he can get close to his ceiling. Offense is bad because of Sark's gameplans, OL, and Arch. I think the biggest reason is the OL, if they cannot clean up the A and B gaps this year the offense will continue to struggle. Need Sark to realize the issues and make OU game plan the norm, not the exception

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Posted
Just now, Codaxx said:

He is going to get worn down over the course of the season. He could beat up already. It just a nightmare environment for any QB. His consistency is the biggest issue, but hard to be consistent when you are the most pressured QB in the SEC. His upside is obvious, just have to see if he can get close to his ceiling. Offense is bad because of Sark's gameplans, OL, and Arch. I think the biggest reason is the OL, if they cannot clean up the A and B gaps this year the offense will continue to struggle. Need Sark to realize the issues and make OU game plan the norm, not the exception

I used to share that sentiment, but it's top to bottom bad. RBs have been bad at what they've been asked to do. WRs have been bad. TEs have left a lot to be desired.

The entire offense is performing like a sub par shitter team. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, immamac said:

I used to share that sentiment, but it's top to bottom bad. RBs have been bad at what they've been asked to do. WRs have been bad. TEs have left a lot to be desired.

The entire offense is performing like a sub par shitter team. 

I would not disagree with that. It reminds me of that 1st year with Sam offense. Feels like on any given play there is an 80% chance of failure, but its hard to pinpoint where that problem will come from. The offense has no rhythm or confidence. I kind of think OU is an outlier (rivalry game). The offense is completely QB reliant, and it feels like everyone is waiting for someone else to make a play.  

Edited by Codaxx
Posted

All i keep saying is he should not be throwing 5 ft over the head of someone 10 yards away with no within miles of him when he's not being rushed...is that really asking too much?

Posted
Just now, Drew said:

All i keep saying is he should not be throwing 5 ft over the head of someone 10 yards away with no within miles of him when he's not being rushed...is that really asking too much?

No. The layups aren't plentiful but you have to make the easy throws when there. And defenses will keep teeing off until you actually burn them. It's infuriating. 

 

Posted
47 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

What's crazy is with all of Arch's obvious struggles, I'm convinced Sark fully believes in Arch's ability and potential based on his puzzling game plans. 

The UTEP game was a full blown disaster. Then against a really shitty SHSU, Arch played well. I  won't oversell it, there's only so much you can do vs. SHSU to make people feel better. But he executed. 

Then vs. FLA, Sark tried to unleash Arch. Tons of deep routes and hero ball play calling. Arch had 15 carries, RBs had 11 carries for 15 yards. His game plan was to put everything in Arch's hands. DIdn't help that defense played poorly, but still. 

Manning was battered and bruised after that game, so much so that Sark praised him for taking every starter snap in practice that week. The game plan devised for OU was clearly designed to protect Arch. Run the ball, short/immediate quick passing attack, and only a few Arch runs where we started to see him sliding. He plays an efficient game, didn't take many hits, and we get a nice win. 

I guess Sark felt good again, so he decided to return to fully depending on Arch offensively. Scrapped the running game, kept him mostly in the pocket throwing where he got hammered by the defense again. 

Hopefully Sark has learned his lesson at this point. Run the ball, get Arch in a rhythm with short passing attack first. If we run successfully and keep the pass rush from teeing off, then take some shots downfield. It feels like he's trying to skip steps in the process. Like he's in denial with what we've seen with Arch on the field so far. 

 

If we don't run the same or similar scheme we used against OU for the rest of the season, I will fully believe Sark has lost his mind.

Posted

The local Austin sports guys were commenting this morning that Arch has already been hit as many times this season as Quinn got hit all year.  I don't know if that includes the post-season.  It obviously doesn't include his two missed starts along with a large part of a third game.  Even so, that factoid (if true) is pretty mind boggling.

Posted
Just now, Biff Tannen said:

If we don't run the same or similar scheme we used against OU for the rest of the season, I will fully believe Sark has lost his mind.

I still don’t get how people think OU was a great performance for the offense. There was only one offensive touchdown that Sark said wasn’t even the play call, and the rest of the points came from the Niblett return and a bunch of FGs. There’s only so much of a beating Wisner can take. Drives not ending in touchdowns is the norm for Sark regardless of who is the QB. 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

No. The layups aren't plentiful but you have to make the easy throws when there. And defenses will keep teeing off until you actually burn them. It's infuriating. 

 

this is the dichotomy of Arch Manning. He misses the easy, but makes the hard. He is 7th according to PFF in Big Time throws in the country. 

Edited by Codaxx
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

No one is saying it was a great performance vs. OU. But it was something to build on. 

 

But did he build on it? No

Did he build on SHSU(his get right game)? No

Edited by BurntOrange&White
Posted
1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

No one is saying it was a great performance vs. OU. But it was something to build on. 

 

This.  And it's the best our O line has looked and that was against the statistically best D in the nation.  Fuck, I don't know man.  Nobody knows because none of this shit makes any sense and we are in a god damn simulation.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Sark completely abandoned that game plan. Do you watch the games? Do you understand what is happening on the field? 

 

I understand you spent a whole lot of time along with me shitty on Quinn about any and every little thing but for some reason you refuse to do the same with arch who is the worst QB I’ve seen at Texas since Gilbert or Swoopes

Posted
Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

No one is saying it was a great performance vs. OU. But it was something to build on. 

 

That was a hell of a performance vs OU. He was under constant pressure in that game. He was really good in that game. He was shitty vs UK. 

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Posted
Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

I understand you spent a whole lot of time along with me shitty on Quinn about any and every little thing but for some reason you refuse to do the same with arch who is the worst QB I’ve seen at Texas since Gilbert or Swoopes

Yes, in year 3 of Quinn Ewers starting at Texas I criticized him. The only reason I'd question myself about it now is because you and I were somehow in agreement. 

 

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Posted
Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

Yes, in year 3 of Quinn Ewers starting at Texas I criticized him. The only reason I'd question myself about it now is because you and I were somehow in agreement. 

 

You should question yourself now because you look like a moron defending arch. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

It's fitting that the poster who calls people pussies all the time is actually the biggest pussy on this board. 

Your shit filled brain doesn't process that people are clearly disappointed and pissed about Arch's play so far this season. But they aren't whinging enough for your tastes, they need to cry and complain and blame Arch for all of our offense's struggles. And to do it everyday, multiple times a day.  Nevermind the historically shitty o-line play, inconsistent running game, and a HC/OC that is throwing shit on the wall to come up with an offensive game plan.  

We had to bring in a transfer from Troy because our HC wasn't comfortable with the backup QB situation. Looking at the alternative to Arch, there's not a lot to be excited about. Does the backup QB fix O-line play? Does he help establish a running game.? Give us your opinion on an alternative solution. Don't just bitch, what is your answer? Should Matthew Caldwell be the starting QB at Texas this season moving forward? 

 

 

Nope. I think @BurntOrange&White is just irritated at the hypocrisy on this thread. Its well documented that he spent all last season calling Quinn a pussy and stood on business about it. So now when he says Arch is also lacking I can respect that because he was equally critical of Quinn. 

However, I am sure what he is irritated about is the same people who were blaming Quinn everytime the line missed a block or  blaming him for the lack of a running game are now blaming those things for Arch's poor play. Its as obvious as day. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

That was a hell of a performance vs OU. He was under constant pressure in that game. He was really good in that game. He was shitty vs UK. 

We scored 16 offensive points. Plenty of positives to take from that performance, but not worth a ton of praise IMO. It was a great starting point. 

 

Posted
2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You should question yourself now because you look like a moron defending arch. 

Arch deserves blame. So does everyone else involved with the offense. Sorry you can't understand nuance. 

Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You should question yourself now because you look like a moron defending arch. 

Do you really believe the alternatives on the bench are better? It's not like Caldwell or Lacey are going to magically unlock a 2019 LSU offense. Our line can't block UTEP. Our receivers can't get separation. We have one healthy-ish RB with a proven track record. The offense is broken in so many more ways than Arch playing terrible.

Edited by ITHorn
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Posted
3 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Nope. I think @BurntOrange&White is just irritated at the hypocrisy on this thread. Its well documented that he spent all last season calling Quinn a pussy and stood on business about it. So now when he says Arch is also lacking I can respect that because he was equally critical of Quinn. 

However, I am sure what he is irritated about is the same people who were blaming Quinn everytime the line missed a block or  blaming him for the lack of a running game are now blaming those things for Arch's poor play. Its as obvious as day. 

Kelvin Banks - Hayden Conner - Jake Majors - DJ Campbell - Cameron Williams 

We have taken a major step back at LT, LG, C, and RT this year. The OL is the foundation, and our foundation is broken. 

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Posted

 

Arch had missed wide open receivers all season when he has had time to throw.  When the OL is this awful, he simply has to make those throws.  I don’t know if he misses those throws because he is an awful passer or because he is mentally destroyed by the pressure (both off the field from expectations and on the field from opposing defenses) but it’s a disaster either way.

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Posted

["you never played the game/position" card]: A lot of keyboard warriors treat football like it's a Madden game. There is a psychological and physical toll of taking a beating that doesn't show up in the video game. Arch has missed badly on a several open receivers when he appeared to have time. When more often then not he does not have time and is going to take a hit, he's probably assuming he's about to get crushed on every throw while his head, arms, and legs are getting beat down as the game goes on. The OL playing better is necessary for its obvious purpose, but it also gives the QB confidence to see open receivers, step in and make a good pass. Our OL gets no push on run plays and is typically a sieve on pass blocking.

Posted

Texas had a great string of RBs the last 5 years, with Bijan, RJ, Jonathan Brooks and some others. Last year Tre Wisner and Jaydon Blue were a pretty good tandem. It looked like it was going to continue with Baxter/Wisner and a few others, but it hasn't really panned out. Tre had a great game vs the Sooners and the team looked completely different. This team just doesn't have the RB room it's had the last few years and Sark's offense needs a couple of great RBs for it to work.

Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

We scored 16 offensive points. Plenty of positives to take from that performance, but not worth a ton of praise IMO. It was a great starting point. 

 

Brooks was give a 3.8 pass pro grade vs OU with 9 pressures allowed. Not even sure how a 3.8 is possible. Could not find Hutson's pass blocking grade, but overall he was 54.6. I am pretty confident saying it was shitty. You have to factor that in.  I believe there were 25 pressures on 27 attempts. 78% comp is nice, but the 0 turnover worthy plays was huge in that game considering the pressure. 

Edited by Codaxx
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Posted

Classic message board circle jerk we have going on here. Guys, two things can be true at the same time:

1.- Arch is not playing well

2.- Arch is getting poor support from his coaches and teammates

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Posted
15 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Its like @Derka doesn't even listen to the coach. Sark told us years ago how he calls games and the whole Sark loop. He explained how he uses the run game to get the second level to react then he RPO's them. Then when the safeties walk down to deal with the RPO he hits them over the top. So basically Sark is telling us he coaches by the numbers. Wherever he has a numbers advantage he looks to exploit it. So it should be self explanatory that if Sark sees Kentucky, a team that plays primarily zone, basically playing man coverage all game with extra bodies in the run game he is going to try and exploit that with mesh concepts and man beaters. He did that but we couldn't hit the receivers. So when we see Sark abandon the run just look at what the defense is doing for an answer why. OU wasn't doing that so of course we ran a different gameplan 

This is as good an explanation as I’ve seen and makes a lot of sense. Have you gone back and confirmed it on the game film (6+ in the box results in pass play and vice versa) or is this based on your first watch observation?

1 hour ago, Codaxx said:

in @BurntOrange&White defense, he is the most consistent poster on this board. His position is always the Qb sucks. 

That and the LG position. 

Posted

The QB position is a force multiplier for the entire team and, at this point, his multiplier is <1. Bad performance from your leadership drags the whole team down

You might tell the media you have “the utmost confidence) in QB1, but how many times are you going to put your body on the line to get let down over and over again? It’s human nature. Then you look at a guy like Pavia and his guys are running through a brick wall for him and his coach

The offense is going to take off when arch unfucks himself and starts being able to do basic high school QB shit and punish Ds for selling out to abuse him. Until then, expect to see heavy boxes and blitz

I don’t think we get out of this spiral this season with this schedule but it’s always tantalizingly close

 

Posted
4 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

 

 

quoting cuz it needs to be played twice. you cannot overemphasize how big of a deal this is. remember how freshman colt was playing like (and was going to be) a heisman finalist playing behind an o line that returned the bulk of the title winning team, only for colt to have a throw away sophomore year when he lost all his hogmollies? that shit makes a huge difference.

Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Duane Moore said:

This is as good an explanation as I’ve seen and makes a lot of sense. Have you gone back and confirmed it on the game film (6+ in the box results in pass play and vice versa) or is this based on your first watch observation?

That and the LG position. 

All you have to do is watch the Kentucky game plan. They hunted Nick Brooks. Most have played safeties back. Even OU did that. The film is out now. UK usually is a zone team, that struggled to get pressure. They said fuck it, we will dont think Texas can protect. This was probably the most aggressive anyone has gotten with Texas. It was not the fear of the run game. UK was mostly bringing stunts/blitzes from the second level aimed at Brooks' eyes. This is going to be the issue. Anyone can get pressure on Arch. You can trick Sark into hunting big plays. 

Edited by Codaxx
Posted
15 minutes ago, ITHorn said:

Do you really believe the alternatives on the bench are better? It's not like Caldwell or Lacey are going to magically unlock a 2019 LSU offense. Our line can't block UTEP. Our receivers can't get separation. We have one healthy-ish RB with a proven track record. The offense is broken in so many more ways than Arch playing terrible.

I believe that any QB that can hit wide open receivers consistently, get the ball out quickly to checkdowns, and realize there is a field of play from the LOS to 10 yards would be better than arch. 
 

quite literally no one is expecting 2019 lsu offense but we are expecting at least competent QB play. 
 

 

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Posted
1 minute ago, BurntOrange&amp;White said:

I believe that any QB that can hit wide open receivers consistently, get the ball out quickly to checkdowns, and realize there is a field of play from the LOS to 10 yards would be better than arch. 
 

quite literally no one is expecting 2019 lsu offense but we are expecting at least competent QB play. 
 

 

I think there's validity here, but there's also the whole players make plays thing. A lot of smoothing over doesn't happen because I don't remember the last "holy fuck" catch that wasn't Livingston.

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