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Posted (edited)

Sigh... this homework assignment sucks cause of all the people I have to leave off.

I'll keep it simple to start and do football, but I have to do offense and defense.

Offense:

Ricky Williams, Earl Campbell, Vince Young, James Street

Defense:

Tommy Nobis, Quinten Jammer, Brian Orakpo, Derrik Johnson (I'm sorry Stony...)

Defense kicked me in the nuts more than offense. I just love so many Longhorn D players. No shade on offense and I didn't even get a WR or OL in on offense. This exercise sucks!!!!

Edited by BurntEyes
Posted
44 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Jerritt Elliot has won 3 national titles, Jody won 1.

Elliot inherited a program that had already won two national titles and multiple conference championships.

Conradt inherited a club-level squad that had never been ranked and never won a championship of any kind, and was a couple of years removed from playing its games in the Gregory Gym annex. She built women's basketball from the ground up at Texas in the wake of Title IX.

Posted
10 minutes ago, satyanash said:

Elliot inherited a program that had already won two national titles and multiple conference championships.

Conradt inherited a club-level squad that had never been ranked and never won a championship of any kind, and was a couple of years removed from playing its games in the Gregory Gym annex. She built women's basketball from the ground up at Texas in the wake of Title IX.

Thanks for the history lesson, Dad.  I was there.

Posted
Men: Earl Campbell, Ben Crenshaw, TJ Ford, Brooks Kieschnick
Women: Clariss Davis, Maidsen Skinner, Sanya Richards-Ross, Teagan Kavan
Coaches: Darrell Royal, Jerritt Elliott, Eddie Reese, Cliff Gustafson
 
For Texas Mt Rushmore I have Gus over Augie strictly for performance at Texas. Augie is obviously on college baseball Mt Rushmore. I have TK over Cat in terms of softball for Texas....while Cat put Texas softball on the map TK carried us to a place Cat never could. I wanted to avoid two from the same sport which made Vince vs Earl very very tough but Earl winning the first Heisman in program history carried some weight.

For baseball…How do you have Kieschnick ahead of Roger, Swindell, Schiraldi, Calvin Murphy, Melendez, Street…..?
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Txslnghrns said:


For baseball…How do you have Kieschnick ahead of Roger, Swindell, Schiraldi, Calvin Murphy, Melendez, Street…..?

He’s the only player two win the Dick Howser twice. He was basically Shohei for us. 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
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Posted
4 hours ago, Txslnghrns said:


For baseball…How do you have Kieschnick ahead of Roger, Swindell, Schiraldi, Calvin Murphy, Melendez, Street…..?

Comparing Brooks with Roger, Brooks actually had a career at Texas where if I recall correctly Roger had part of a one season (sat out some due to injury).   

8 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Sigh... this homework assignment sucks cause of all the people I have to leave off.

I'll keep it simple to start and do football, but I have to do offense and defense.

Offense:

Ricky Williams, Earl Campbell, Vince Young, James Street

Defense:

Tommy Nobis, Quinten Jammer, Brian Orakpo, Derrik Johnson (I'm sorry Stony...)

Defense kicked me in the nuts more than offense. I just love so many Longhorn D players. No shade on offense and I didn't even get a WR or OL in on offense. This exercise sucks!!!!

Jammer over Gray? 

Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, PGFrog said:

Comparing Brooks with Roger, Brooks actually had a career at Texas where if I recall correctly Roger had part of a one season (sat out some due to injury).   

Jammer over Gray? 

Gray, Diggs, Vasher, Thomas, Ross, Huff, DeAyala, Johnson, Barron, Mukuba and some others you could all argue for at DB. Texas has been called DBU over more than one era in the past. I could have picked a Mount Rushmore for D and made it all DBs. Hell, I left off Tony Brackens and Stoney Clark two of my personal all time favorite Longhorn D players cause hard choices. Like I said in my post, the D one was hard as fuck cause of who I had to leave off. 

Edited by BurntEyes
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Posted
29 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Gray, Diggs, Vasher, Thomas, Ross, Huff, DeAyala, Johnson, Barron, Mukuba and some others you could all argue for at DB. Texas has been called DBU over more than one era in the past. I could have picked a Mount Rushmore for D and made it all DBs. 

Stanley Richard

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Posted
8 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Earl Thomas is our best DB ever. Fortunately unfortunately he didn't get to prove it over time as he went pro as a RS sophomore and was a top 15 pick.

How I aligned mine was at the position while at Texas. Yeah, Thomas was phenomenal and I was hard pressed not to include him. Aaron Ross was another. So fucking many.

Posted
7 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

How I aligned mine was at the position while at Texas. Yeah, Thomas was phenomenal and I was hard pressed not to include him. Aaron Ross was another. So fucking many.

It is kind of crazy that the LSU/Ohio State DBU conversation starts in 2000s forward but ours does date back to the 60s-70s

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

It is kind of crazy that the LSU/Ohio State DBU conversation starts in 2000s forward but ours does date back to the 60s-70s

I would even agree if someone put Barron on their top 4. He was instrumental to our D last year. Huff and Vasher always seemed like they came through in the clutch moments. Stanley Richards mentioned above was a big part of "shock the nation". Hell, Texas DB Rushmore discussion could EASILY be it's own thread.

Edit - went to count. As of today there are 7 Longhorn DBs in the NFL. 9 OSU and 6 LSU.

Suck it LSU and OSU

Edited by BurntEyes
Posted
1 hour ago, BurntEyes said:

Gray, Diggs, Vasher, Thomas, Ross, Huff, DeAyala, Johnson, Barron, Mukuba and some others you could all argue for at DB. Texas has been called DBU over more than one era in the past. I could have picked a Mount Rushmore for D and made it all DBs. Hell, I left off Tony Brackens and Stoney Clark two of my personal all time favorite Longhorn D players cause hard choices. Like I said in my post, the D one was hard as fuck cause of who I had to leave off. 

Jerry Gray and Michael Huff are locks. Beyond that it gets hazy. You can go as recent as Jahdae Barron, or all the way back to Johnnie Johnson and Raymond Clayborn for options.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, satyanash said:

Jerry Gray and Michael Huff are locks. Beyond that it gets hazy. You can go as recent as Jahdae Barron, or all the way back to Johnnie Johnson and Raymond Clayborn for options.

Maybe I am misremembering and I am too lazy right now to look it up, but I seem to recall Clayborne actually playing some offense for the Horns and was a pretty fair sprinter in his day as well. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Gray, Diggs, Vasher, Thomas, Ross, Huff, DeAyala, Johnson, Barron, Mukuba and some others you could all argue for at DB. Texas has been called DBU over more than one era in the past. I could have picked a Mount Rushmore for D and made it all DBs. Hell, I left off Tony Brackens and Stoney Clark two of my personal all time favorite Longhorn D players cause hard choices. Like I said in my post, the D one was hard as fuck cause of who I had to leave off. 

Casey Hampton?

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Posted
2 hours ago, satyanash said:

Jerry Gray and Michael Huff are locks. Beyond that it gets hazy. You can go as recent as Jahdae Barron, or all the way back to Johnnie Johnson and Raymond Clayborn for options.

If Huff is a lock I'd say Ross and Barron are too. 

But in contributions to Texas football Diggs never missed a game in 4 years and won 3 All Big XII awards. That leaves out Vasher who was a demon in tackling, passes broken up, and INTs as well as Jammer who is #2 in interceptions. Forgetting about Thomas who was phenomenal. Its a bitch picking 4 on DBs alone. 

Aforementioned Hampton, haven't talked about Corey Redding or Sims. Like I said.... a Texas D Mount Rushmore is a beating because of who you have to leave off. Even picking 4 on DB is a bitch.

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Posted
Just now, Fondren & Main said:

Vasher was better than Huff and Ross in my opinion.  I think Barron was too.  Earl Thomas was better than all of them but only had the one outstanding year.

As a team contribution player... Vasher and Barron are very hard to argue against. 

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Posted
21 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

Vasher was better than Huff and Ross in my opinion.  I think Barron was too.  Earl Thomas was better than all of them but only had the one outstanding year.

Nathan Vasher give me a break! 

IYKYK

Posted
12 hours ago, satyanash said:

Elliot inherited a program that had already won two national titles and multiple conference championships.

Conradt inherited a club-level squad that had never been ranked and never won a championship of any kind, and was a couple of years removed from playing its games in the Gregory Gym annex. She built women's basketball from the ground up at Texas in the wake of Title IX.

Conradt also had the benefit of competing in an era where very few teams were worth a shit. Volleyball now is about 100x more competitive than women's basketball was in the mid-80's

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Gray, Diggs, Vasher, Thomas, Ross, Huff, DeAyala, Johnson, Barron, Mukuba and some others you could all argue for at DB. Texas has been called DBU over more than one era in the past. I could have picked a Mount Rushmore for D and made it all DBs. Hell, I left off Tony Brackens and Stoney Clark two of my personal all time favorite Longhorn D players cause hard choices. Like I said in my post, the D one was hard as fuck cause of who I had to leave off. 

There have been 18 DBs that were 1st team All-Americans. That is the first cut.

2 time All-Americans: Vasher, Gray, and Johnnie Johnson. 

3 Thorpe award winners (Huff, Ross, Barron), since it started being awarded in 1986. 

Feels like to be in the discussion you have to at least be a 1x All-American and have a Thorpe (if after 86).

Gray and Johnson are in the College HOF, so they need to be on any Texas DB list. If you pick 4 to be on the Mount Rushmore, you are going to be leaving some serious bad asses off the list. 

 

 

Edited by Codaxx
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

There have been 18 DBs that were 1st team All-Americans. That is the first cut.

2 time All-Americans: Vasher, Gray, and Johnnie Johnson. 

3 Thorpe award winners (Huff, Ross, Barron), since it started being awarded in 1986. 

Feels like to be in the discussion you have to at least be a 1x All-American and have a Thorpe (if after 86).

Gray and Johnson are in the College HOF, so they need to be on any Texas DB list. If you pick 4 to be on the Mount Rushmore, you are going to be leaving some serious bad asses off the list. 

 

 

Well, I think there is a balance between winning awards and actual team contributions. If not, do we throw out VY for not winning a Heisman? Of course we don't. Thus I think the Thorpe qualification is a bit of a stretch. I would say, to their teams, Vasher and Barron were arguably more valuable than Huff and Ross. As for College HOF that's an important measure, sure, but does that mean Vasher or Ross is off. Obviously, there is a lot of subjectivity in both picking the players you think should be there as well as who wins awards. Just because a player didn't win a Thorpe, doesn't mean they weren't the best DB that particular year. 

Semantics and opinion aside, nobody can pick 4 from Texas DBs nor D and feel like its a complete list cause as you said.... the people left out are insanely talented contributors. 

Edited by BurntEyes
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Well, I think there is a balance between winning awards and actual team contributions. If not, do we throw out VY for not winning a Heisman? Of course we don't. Thus I think the Thorpe qualification is a bit of a stretch. I would say, to their teams, Vasher and Barron were arguably more valuable than Huff and Ross. As for College HOF that's an important measure, sure, but does that mean Vasher or Ross is off. Obviously, there is a lot of subjectivity in both picking the players you think should be there as well as who wins awards. Just because a player didn't win a Thorpe, doesn't mean they weren't the best DB that particular year. 

I think Vasher is on. He is one of three 2x All-Americans. VY is also in the College HOF, so he is obviously on. The point is DB is arguably the most competitive position if you are doing a MT Rushmore for Texas. To be on the DB list you pretty much need 2 All-Amreican caliber seasons or an absolutely elite season. 

Edited by Codaxx
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Posted (edited)
Just now, Codaxx said:

I think Vasher is on. He is one of three 2x All-Americans. VY is also in the College HOF, so he is obviously on. The point is DB is arguably the most competitive position if you are doing a MT Rushmore for Texas

💯

Edited by BurntEyes
Posted
23 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

There have been 18 DBs that were 1st team All-Americans. That is the first cut.

2 time All-Americans: Vasher, Gray, and Johnnie Johnson. 

3 Thorpe award winners (Huff, Ross, Barron), since it started being awarded in 1986. 

Feels like to be in the discussion you have to at least be a 1x All-American and have a Thorpe (if after 86).

Gray and Johnson are in the College HOF, so they need to be on any Texas DB list. If you pick 4 to be on the Mount Rushmore, you are going to be leaving some serious bad asses off the 

Earl Thomas doesn’t have a Thorpe but he’s better than Huff, Ross, and Barron   
 

not his fault they Thorpe people gave a lifetime achievement award to Berry 

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Posted
1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Earl Thomas doesn’t have a Thorpe but he’s better than Huff, Ross, and Barron   
 

not his fault they Thorpe people gave a lifetime achievement award to Berry 

I didnt put them on there. I thought Gray, Vasher, and Johnson had to be on the list. Picking #4 is a bitch. 

Posted
19 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Well, I think there is a balance between winning awards and actual team contributions. If not, do we throw out VY for not winning a Heisman? Of course we don't. Thus I think the Thorpe qualification is a bit of a stretch.

Thorpe is an award for a position/group. Its not a standard that would knock Vince out. Vince has Davey OBrien, Maxwell, and Manning Awards. I am sure there is someone that you could argue on the positional award criteria, but it is a solid jumping off pt for picking the greatest Longhorns ever. 

Posted
14 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Earl Thomas doesn’t have a Thorpe but he’s better than Huff, Ross, and Barron   
 

not his fault they Thorpe people gave a lifetime achievement award to Berry 

I dunno if I agree that Thomas is better than Barron. Particularly as a team contributor. Texas D isn't what it was last year, not close without Barron's play, particularly in shutting down screens but in the broader terms as well.

Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Thorpe is an award for a position/group. Its not a standard that would knock Vince out. Vince has Davey OBrien, Maxwell, and Manning Awards. I am sure there is someone that you could argue on the positional award criteria, but it is a solid jumping off pt for picking the greatest Longhorns ever. 

Derrick Strait (I see you Lanier) beat Vasher for a Thorpe and Bush beat VY for a Heisman. I have a predisposition against the subjective bias of awards, but your point is sound.

Edited by BurntEyes
Posted
1 minute ago, BurntEyes said:

Derrick Strait (I see you Lanier) beat Vasher for a Thorpe and Bush beat VY for a Heisman. I have a predisposition against the subjective bias of awards, but your point is sound.

The issue with this list is Texas football has a very long and rich history. We tend to have a bias to modern players. You have a player like Hub Bechtol that is a 3x All-American. Nobody on here would mention him (maybe @Armybrat). There have only been 2 Longhorns to ever be a 3x AA, Russel Erxleben is the other. It is kind of good to use AA and awards to winnow the list down and bring up names that certainly belong in the discussion, even if we have not seen them. You dont have to be strict on it, but its better than the "player X was more awesomer" argument.  

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Posted

Earl Thomas is the best DB to ever play at Texas. He doesn't have the same accolades as the other guys because he only played 2 seasons and left early. 

These debates generally boil down to how much you weigh what they did at Texas vs. what they did as pros. 

Posted
7 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Earl Thomas is the best DB to ever play at Texas. He doesn't have the same accolades as the other guys because he only played 2 seasons and left early. 

These debates generally boil down to how much you weigh what they did at Texas vs. what they did as pros. 

To my mind, what they did at Texas matters 10x more.

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Posted
6 hours ago, PGFrog said:

Comparing Brooks with Roger, Brooks actually had a career at Texas where if I recall correctly Roger had part of a one season (sat out some due to injury).   

What?  Clemens was a 2-time All-American at Texas.  I don't have a problem with anyone who says Swindell was better in college (or even Kieschnick, as he was a beast on the mound and at the plate), but either your statement is a typo or you're not thinking clearly.

Posted
9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

What?  Clemens was a 2-time All-American at Texas.  I don't have a problem with anyone who says Swindell was better in college (or even Kieschnick, as he was a beast on the mound and at the plate), but either your statement is a typo or you're not thinking clearly.

My mistake, for some reason I keep thinking he did the two years at San Jac instead of the first year.  

Wasn't a question of the quality, but the mistake on his coming in as a sophomore instead of as a junior as I remembered which was wrong. 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

How the fuck have none of you people said Colt McCoy

 

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

Because he wouldn't be on the mount rushmore?

Who on my offensive list do you think Colt surpasses?

Offense:

Ricky Williams, Earl Campbell, Vince Young, James Street

Posted
1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Earl Thomas is the best DB to ever play at Texas. He doesn't have the same accolades as the other guys because he only played 2 seasons and left early. 

These debates generally boil down to how much you weigh what they did at Texas vs. what they did as pros. 

Earl owes a lot of his success to Akina and the CB depth at Texas at the time. Rare a guy with his athleticism would play Safety and not CB, especially 15+ years ago. 

Posted
5 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

 

Who on my offensive list do you think Colt surpasses?

Offense:

Ricky Williams, Earl Campbell, Vince Young, James Street

Bobby Layne should be the 2nd QB. 3 time all-swc and 2x All-American. College and NFL HOF 

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