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Posted
5 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The SEC agreed to this, but the thing is that it’s a total fiction to equate 9 SEC games with 9 Big XII or ACC games, no matter the opponents. It’s a polite fiction. And frankly, it was a demand that never should have been agreed to. It’s a clear competitive edge to those quasi-power conferences stocked up with refugees from the G5 and the castoffs of the PAC.

Tech’s schedule is close to the bottom half of all FBS teams. The teams you’re whinging about played much harder schedules, no matter how many conference games are on the schedule. Putting the little (c) after games against the likes of Okie Light doesn’t legitimize them somehow and make them quality wins.  
 

You’re griping about Samford when your non-con was Kent, Arkie-Pine Bluff, and Oregon State. You scheduled zero P4 teams non-con and every SEC team did at least one, including bottom-barrel teams going undefeated against “quality” Big XII teams. STFU with your “nine conference games” bullshit. 

It's also a fiction to equate 9 games in the SEC with 9 other games in the SEC.  As of now Texas A&M has played five conference teams with a losing record.  (Best conf opps have been Missouri and LSU).  Add Sanford UTSA and Utah State.  They are lucky we have rebounded or they would be heading into the Texas bowl having played nobody yet of course locked up a berth in the conference championship game. 

 

The big two conferences have only themselves to blame if that's a problem. They poached the best teams from the other conferences. They bloated the playoffs so there 10-2 teams could have extra Mulligans.  So I don't want to hear from an engineer that hates his own system.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Crockett said:

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Not possible.  If Michigan finishes with two losses then they must have beaten Ohio State and knocked the Buckeyes out of the conference championship game.  H-H tiebreakers are SC > UM > OSU.  likewise if Trojans are 10-2 then they beat the Ducks, so SC is in the ccg against IU.

Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, notre dame joe said:

It's also a fiction to equate 9 games in the SEC with 9 other games in the SEC.  As of now Texas A&M has played five conference teams with a losing record.  (Best conf opps have been Missouri and LSU).  Add Sanford UTSA and Utah State.  They are lucky we have rebounded or they would be heading into the Texas bowl having played nobody yet of course locked up a berth in the conference championship game. 

The big two conferences have only themselves to blame if that's a problem. They poached the best teams from the other conferences. They bloated the playoffs so there 10-2 teams could have extra Mulligans.  So I don't want to hear from an engineer that hates his own system.

About half of the top 10 SoS's are SEC teams.  And A&M is one of those or just outside depending on where you look.

I agree that we are here largely because the top 2 conferences stacked talent.  I think where we differ is that I understand that those conferences will take their ball and go home within a decade if we don't get some sort of reasonable scheduling OR playoff selection consideration.

Edited by JBJ
Posted
6 minutes ago, JBJ said:

7 of the top 10 SoS's are SEC teams.  And A&M is one of those.

I agree that we are here largely because the top 2 conferences stacked talent.  I think where we differ is that I understand that those conferences will take their ball and go home within a decade if we don't get some sort of reasonable scheduling OR playoff selection.

Yeah, but it's kind of an incestuous metric, is it not?  You have to rank teams first in order to establish a SOS.  When you use SOS to rank those same teams, you're essentially ranking teams in order to rank teams - it's circular.

There's also a lot of selective transitive property being applied...they apply when it helps their argument, and they dismiss it when it doesn't.

 

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Posted
1 hour ago, notre dame joe said:

Not possible.  If Michigan finishes with two losses then they must have beaten Ohio State and knocked the Buckeyes out of the conference championship game.  H-H tiebreakers are SC > UM > OSU.  likewise if Trojans are 10-2 then they beat the Ducks, so SC is in the ccg against IU.

Good catch. 

Posted
5 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

Yeah, but it's kind of an incestuous metric, is it not?  You have to rank teams first in order to establish a SOS.  When you use SOS to rank those same teams, you're essentially ranking teams in order to rank teams - it's circular.

There's also a lot of selective transitive property being applied...they apply when it helps their argument, and they dismiss it when it doesn't.

I agree on these two points, but models do a decent job of churning all the data and spitting out estimates that are pretty close to reality.  The more quality non-conference games that we get the more reliable it becomes to do this.  However, having done this a number of years, bowls just don't majorly change what the model thinks about teams or conferences, even though that's when half of the good games happen.

The issue with SOS specifically is that there are several different methods trying to measure different things that all call themselves SOS.  When people colloquially use it, they are trying to answer, "How difficult is it (or how good a team do you need to be) to play through a schedule and make the playoff?"  Not all models are even trying to answer that in their SOS rankings, though. (And people will cherry-pick.)

Posted (edited)

Also, (too late to edit): The correct word is relational- not circular - because it's not starting from a place that gets it back to that same place.  It iterates between teams that have played until it produces an acceptable outcome.  I can clear my model and start with Okie State preseason as the greatest team of all time and all the SEC teams occupying the lowest places, but it'll work back to the exact same place that it is right now.

Edited by JBJ

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