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21 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

But it’s not an abstract proposition. That’s my point. It’s really not your fault. You were a product of your environment, upbringing, history, etc.

I was raised in a different environment full of socially conscious lefties. That doesn’t make me better or worse.

Over time my views changed as I became my own person and so did yours. But that process happens to everyone on a different timeline and for different reasons.

Follow that line of thinking and you would be an apologist for most Nazis, as they were simply just a product of their environment. Poor helpless and without agency! They have no choice but to pick the most hateful and damaging narrative because, aw shucks, they're just too busy being business leaders to pay attention to those ugly politics

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  • The “shut up and play sports” crowd is awfully quiet when athletes are jerking off Orange Man.

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    Man, I wrestle with this. It sucks but I remind myself that this is what they want, to shrink America and all of public life down into MAGA or not and to make the “not” section small and sad. MAGA wan

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1 hour ago, safe sex said:

For sure. I gotta scrape my fingernails to the bone trying to find what hope I can rn tho

Amen to that

1 hour ago, DaysOff said:

  2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:


Jesus. Is that true? I'm an old now, but only 12 at the time. Every problem in the country can be drawn on graph where the lines lead to that guy.

Screenshot_20260111_120226_Google.jpg

Holy shit, just got into a yelling match with my wife (on my side) and the in laws. Just straight right wing propagandists. They immediately bring up shit that I only vaguely know about from the Fox News thread and such on this site as if it is straight reality.

The only thing that came of it from my super Christian MIL is she claimed Jesus would send the immigrants back instead of housing and feeding them. I told her that was the antithesis of Christianity and it made her double take. For a moment, she was self aware. But only a fleeting moment. Then she gave me the finger.

2 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

there will be a new one referencing this era

Will it go to negative 11?

2 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

This is a ridiculous argument.

The environment has changed drastically. It is much harder to avoid politics now compared to 40 years ago.

I'm sure if I was an ex Republican raised in privilege I would feel that way, but I'm not. I was raised by people who got beat up by cops and thrown in jail over their beliefs, and I found myself in harm's way over politics for the first time at 10. So, the world looks different to me than most people on this board. That's OK. We all have different experiences. It was easy for YOU to avoid politics 40 years ago. It wasn't easy for me. Now it's easy for Becky Suburban to avoid them even when she pulls the lever for Trump.

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Follow that line of thinking and you would be an apologist for most Nazis, as they were simply just a product of their environment. Poor helpless and without agency! They have no choice but to pick the most hateful and damaging narrative because, aw shucks, they're just too busy being business leaders to pay attention to those ugly politics

I'm not apologizing or anything like it. I'm saying this is part of the human condition. If it was not that way we could say that the Nazis were an expression of the defects in the German character and that it couldn't happen here. But it can and has. So we have to
1) Understand the difference between leaders, followers and complicit bystanders
2) Acknowlege that outside of the leaders they are just like us.
3) Engage them wherever we can.
4) Be prepared for kinetic violence if we can't.

Think what you want of me but don't fool yourself - withdrawal is not a winning strategy.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

Holy shit, just got into a yelling match with my wife (on my side) and the in laws. Just straight right wing propagandists. They immediately bring up shit that I only vaguely know about from the Fox News thread and such on this site as if it is straight reality.

The only thing that came of it from my super Christian MIL is she claimed Jesus would send the immigrants back instead of housing and feeding them. I told her that was the antithesis of Christianity and it made her double take. For a moment, she was self aware. But only a fleeting moment. Then she gave me the finger.

Nothing pisses off a Christian more than pointing out how un-Christian like they act. Or that Christ will reject them.

And of course the worst are the pastors who refuse to speak up because they don’t want to impact donations.

I’m disappointed that there doesn’t seem to be any word from NFL athletes regarding the MN murder. I have to guess that the NFL has threatened the players to not distract from the playoffs.

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I’m disappointed that there doesn’t seem to be any word from NFL athletes regarding the MN murder. I have to guess that the NFL has threatened the players to not distract from the playoffs.

I think most are Team ICE, anyway.

3 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Think what you want of me but don't fool yourself - withdrawal is not a winning strategy.

I completely agree, I'm not saying the best course is to withdraw. I'm saying we shouldn't concede every point and excuse their blind hatred and affirmative votes for a modern Kristalnacht. It's happening in Minnesota right now. If they're any sort of "aw shucks" about that, fuck them and they are lost.

Don't retreat from engaging with them, don't concede that because they FEEL a certain way that it must be so, and don't give them room to weasel. Giving them so much rhetorical weasel room is exactly how you end up in this position.

7 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I'm not apologizing or anything like it. I'm saying this is part of the human condition. If it was not that way we could say that the Nazis were an expression of the defects in the German character and that it couldn't happen here.

You're literally excusing their choices as "the human condition". All are equal, but they must be more equal than others if their privileged human condition gives them license to be fascist without contempt from you.

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

You're literally excusing their choices as "the human condition". All are equal, but they must be more equal than others if their privileged human condition gives them license to be fascist without contempt from you.

That’s not an excuse. It’s an observation. But their leaders are the ones I have contempt for. I pity the others and think that there but for the grace of God go I.

10 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

That’s not an excuse. It’s an observation. But their leaders are the ones I have contempt for. I pity the others and think that there but for the grace of God go I.

Don't sell yourself short, Bozo. You're a tremendous slouch.

1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

Holy shit, just got into a yelling match with my wife (on my side) and the in laws. Just straight right wing propagandists. They immediately bring up shit that I only vaguely know about from the Fox News thread and such on this site as if it is straight reality.

The only thing that came of it from my super Christian MIL is she claimed Jesus would send the immigrants back instead of housing and feeding them. I told her that was the antithesis of Christianity and it made her double take. For a moment, she was self aware. But only a fleeting moment. Then she gave me the finger.

Quoting myself because now I’m fucking seething. I can’t believe I have to sit here and pretend they are still worthy of my patience. I’ve always known they weee like this, but today was the first time I saw them admit it. And they just. Don’t. Care. They admitted their hate and that they think it is correct.

I asked them why they supported a child rapist and FIL said “who is a child rapist?” My jaw hit the floor.

Our man bozo is carrying out some weapons grade gaslighting today. Jesus christ, stop.

30 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Quoting myself because now I’m fucking seething. I can’t believe I have to sit here and pretend they are still worthy of my patience. I’ve always known they weee like this, but today was the first time I saw them admit it. And they just. Don’t. Care. They admitted their hate and that they think it is correct.

I asked them why they supported a child rapist and FIL said “who is a child rapist?” My jaw hit the floor.

I’m not in a position to offer advice because they aren’t my in laws, but I’ve had similar experiences and so did my folks. One strategy is to write a letter to them and say everything you would like to say. Then sleep on it before you send it. Then reread it, and decide if that’s what you really want to say. Repeat the process until you have a letter you can send and then send the letter.

They can decide what to do with the information. However you decide to manage the situation, they deserve to have it. And you owe it to yourself not to bottle it up.writing is better than a conversation usually because it removes some of the ambiguity that provides space for false accommodation.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova

nobody needs to hear from Ashley but it's eerily related to where this thread is

48 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Quoting myself because now I’m fucking seething. I can’t believe I have to sit here and pretend they are still worthy of my patience. I’ve always known they weee like this, but today was the first time I saw them admit it. And they just. Don’t. Care. They admitted their hate and that they think it is correct.

I asked them why they supported a child rapist and FIL said “who is a child rapist?” My jaw hit the floor.

That sucks. My in-laws are pretty annoying and hard to be around but we actually agree on politics. My dad’s a trumper but likes seeing his kids and grandkids so rarely brings anything political up.

2 hours ago, Macanudo said:

Will it go to negative 11?

Yes. Just when we think things are at their worst, but you need that little extra to push you over the cliff, you know what we do? Eleven. Exactly. One worse.

2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Holy shit, just got into a yelling match with my wife (on my side) and the in laws. Just straight right wing propagandists. They immediately bring up shit that I only vaguely know about from the Fox News thread and such on this site as if it is straight reality.

The only thing that came of it from my super Christian MIL is she claimed Jesus would send the immigrants back instead of housing and feeding them. I told her that was the antithesis of Christianity and it made her double take. For a moment, she was self aware. But only a fleeting moment. Then she gave me the finger.

52 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Quoting myself because now I’m fucking seething. I can’t believe I have to sit here and pretend they are still worthy of my patience. I’ve always known they weee like this, but today was the first time I saw them admit it. And they just. Don’t. Care. They admitted their hate and that they think it is correct.

I asked them why they supported a child rapist and FIL said “who is a child rapist?” My jaw hit the floor.

17 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I’m not in a position to offer advice because they aren’t my in laws, but I’ve had similar experiences and so did my folks. One strategy is to write a letter to them and say everything you would like to say. Then sleep on it before you send it. Then reread it, and decide if that’s what you really want to say. Repeat the process until you have a letter you can send and then send the letter.

They can decide what to do with the information. However you decide to manage the situation, they deserve to have it. And you owe it to yourself not to bottle it up.writing is better than a conversation usually because it removes some of the ambiguity that provides space for false accommodation.

Since you are are struggling to offer advice here I will step in....

Fuck em. Put some distance between you and them and make sure they understand why. My mother and father in law are long time Republicans that pulled the lever for the idiot who is currently in office. My teenage daughter asked her grandma how she could vote against her well being and literally told her how she was disappointed in her. The wife and I have made it extremely uncomfortable for them. My wife's parents, who are retired and have a lot of disposable income, rarely come around much. If that's the price to pay to get them to think about their actions then so be it.

We cannot allow people to exist in our orbit without drawing that line. Otherwise we are enabling them. Silence is collusion after all. Talk to your wife and put some space between you and them.

World Cup, I hope we lose every game 10-nill

Olympics? I hope 0 medals.

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