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Posted
13 minutes ago, Vato Macho said:

In this case, she's actually quite right, no matter how much you try to say she isn't. It's like some of y'all are trying to speak that into existence. Piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. Sorry, not working.

This is true. The numbers bear it out. 

Lived experience bears it out. Ask anyone that lived anywhere near the border if there was a perceptible change in 2021. Spoiler, there was. It was overnight. 

The policy changes helped it happen. Just say you're glad it happened or that it's good it happened. That has more credibility.

Encounters on the SW border have plummeted without the benefit of any legislation. You can just be committed to enforcement and it's amazing what can happen. Or, you can do the opposite. Open floodgates something something. 

Quoting to say there are many good ideas and some when combined may be the right solution to a particular problem. Quoting to say also that there a lot of bad ideas and wrong solutions that FEEL good to say them or to employ them but can and have led to even bigger problems. And some big problems not a soul is willing to compromise on.
 

what we have here is a lot of wannabe political candidates who don’t have the stones to run for any office of any kind. And I am speaking for myself also.
 

And while Fit Lump or whatever the shit her knockers are called at least she had the STONES to run for something and won at one point. At least she had the stones. We have a lot of lawyers where when arguing before a Judge there is case precedent and a right way to rule and a wrong way for the Judge to rule based on the law.
 

But these same posters apply this black and white nonsense and it effects every take on this board and they use these takes to bludgeon anyone who disagrees with them about any issue period,

 

Teachers and coaches should not do this to young people in their charge. Parents should not if their son or daughter comes home from school say “oh that’s your take on this issue go to your room you Commie/Libtard/Maga asshole…the sky is blue and not indigo bc I say it is!” 
 

we have too many people coasting on whatever shit they whiffed off MSNOW or CNN or Fox News hot take of the hour and have decided that’s enough to bludgeon people with.
 

Most of us ain’t bad mother fuckers, we just want to discuss an issue in a way that might yield real ideas. Automatically putting someone into a fucking box bc they heard or read something and want to discuss it is shit. 
 

Just a few months ago many on this platform said civility is dead and we cannot afford to be civil and we must rise up—so if you NOW want to discuss an issue and find solutions and to compromise it’s bc you no longer have the upper hand. No other reason. If you had the upper hand now you wouldn’t want to be open to any new ideas. Some of you went from burn it all down to now wanting to talk about immigration and so forth. Why? 
 

and as far as the current administration: has anyone gone to the Orange Cheeto’s office and proposed a solution? Any ideas or is the strategy just to be anti-Cheeto everything and just playing the banjo outside ICE and harassing agents and their families and hoping that might work? Protests can be effective but in the absence of real solutions or proposals they just seem like a bunch of people pissed they aren’t in power. I don’t see many in opposition to the current status quo offering solutions at all, just resistance to what has been offered.
 

That’s my take as a PROUD INDEPENDENT and people have the right to hate me for it. I ain’t maga and I ain’t a socialist and I’m somewhere in the fucking middle on many many issues. But I can be swayed and I admit i can be wrong. I can also be right. same as the rest of you jackholes. 
 

But if anyone wants to provide PROOF or documentation that PROVES that immigration did NOT dramatically rise under the previous administration from a credible accepted source have at it. As I said I’m all eyes and all ears. 
 

 

Posted (edited)

JFC, nobody insulted you or was uncivil. It sounds like you just don't like being questioned. I literally proposed a solution. Legislation to make it legal to work in this country with criminal vetting and otherwise minimal barriers. You're hung up on immigration is bad if it's not legal. Several have said the problem is that it should be legal and the legislature has not done it because it's too good of a wedge issue. Feel free to ignore it yet again. I'm done here. 

Edited by 'stache
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Posted
4 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

and as far as the current administration: has anyone gone to the Orange Cheeto’s office and proposed a solution?

CONGRESS LITERALLY HAD COMPREHENSIVE LEGISLATION READY TO GO.  THAT IS THE PROPOSAL.  And he said "NO," not because there was any policy problem with it, but because (1) he needs immigration as a rallying point issue, and (2) he needs and wants to be cruel and violent.  That's actually the point.  

When a key element of his governance is "be the fucking gestapo," a suggestion of "maybe don't be the gestapo" is fucking stupid and pointless.

This admin has zero interest in immigration reform.  FFS, they are openly in favor of DE-MIGRATION.  They are actively working to remove LEGAL residents from the US.  They have openly stated if you aren't a NATIVE-BORN American (and note, not even THAT is good enough), GTFO.  Period.

There's no "negotiation" or "honest policy discussion" with that shit.  GTFO here with that shit.

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Posted
I thought AI was going to take a lot of jobs? Why are we bringing in more that will then need support?
 

AI is going to roof/build houses, mow lawns, work in vegetable fields — all those kinds of jobs?
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Posted
12 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Quoting to say there are many good ideas and some when combined may be the right solution to a particular problem. Quoting to say also that there a lot of bad ideas and wrong solutions that FEEL good to say them or to employ them but can and have led to even bigger problems. And some big problems not a soul is willing to compromise on.
 

what we have here is a lot of wannabe political candidates who don’t have the stones to run for any office of any kind. And I am speaking for myself also.
 

And while Fit Lump or whatever the shit her knockers are called at least she had the STONES to run for something and won at one point. At least she had the stones. We have a lot of lawyers where when arguing before a Judge there is case precedent and a right way to rule and a wrong way for the Judge to rule based on the law.
 

But these same posters apply this black and white nonsense and it effects every take on this board and they use these takes to bludgeon anyone who disagrees with them about any issue period,

 

Teachers and coaches should not do this to young people in their charge. Parents should not if their son or daughter comes home from school say “oh that’s your take on this issue go to your room you Commie/Libtard/Maga asshole…the sky is blue and not indigo bc I say it is!” 
 

we have too many people coasting on whatever shit they whiffed off MSNOW or CNN or Fox News hot take of the hour and have decided that’s enough to bludgeon people with.
 

Most of us ain’t bad mother fuckers, we just want to discuss an issue in a way that might yield real ideas. Automatically putting someone into a fucking box bc they heard or read something and want to discuss it is shit. 
 

Just a few months ago many on this platform said civility is dead and we cannot afford to be civil and we must rise up—so if you NOW want to discuss an issue and find solutions and to compromise it’s bc you no longer have the upper hand. No other reason. If you had the upper hand now you wouldn’t want to be open to any new ideas. Some of you went from burn it all down to now wanting to talk about immigration and so forth. Why? 
 

and as far as the current administration: has anyone gone to the Orange Cheeto’s office and proposed a solution? Any ideas or is the strategy just to be anti-Cheeto everything and just playing the banjo outside ICE and harassing agents and their families and hoping that might work? Protests can be effective but in the absence of real solutions or proposals they just seem like a bunch of people pissed they aren’t in power. I don’t see many in opposition to the current status quo offering solutions at all, just resistance to what has been offered.
 

That’s my take as a PROUD INDEPENDENT and people have the right to hate me for it. I ain’t maga and I ain’t a socialist and I’m somewhere in the fucking middle on many many issues. But I can be swayed and I admit i can be wrong. I can also be right. same as the rest of you jackholes. 
 

But if anyone wants to provide PROOF or documentation that PROVES that immigration did NOT dramatically rise under the previous administration from a credible accepted source have at it. As I said I’m all eyes and all ears. 
 

 

are you on your period or what

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

CONGRESS LITERALLY HAD COMPREHENSIVE LEGISLATION READY TO GO.  THAT IS THE PROPOSAL.  And he said "NO," not because there was any policy problem with it, but because (1) he needs immigration as a rallying point issue, and (2) he needs and wants to be cruel and violent.  That's actually the point.  

When a key element of his governance is "be the fucking gestapo," a suggestion of "maybe don't be the gestapo" is fucking stupid and pointless.

This admin has zero interest in immigration reform.  FFS, they are openly in favor of DE-MIGRATION.  They are actively working to remove LEGAL residents from the US.  They have openly stated if you aren't a NATIVE-BORN American (and note, not even THAT is good enough), GTFO.  Period.

There's no "negotiation" or "honest policy discussion" with that shit.  GTFO here with that shit.

Instead they just enforced the laws on the books and daily crossing fell from a high of 10,000 a day in 2023 to 250 a day by October 25

 

 

Posted
4 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

enforced the laws on the books

Man....that phrase is doing some heavy, unconstitutional lifting there.

I guess "detaining an entire east African restaurant due to the ethnicity of the patrons, but whoops, they were all citizens or legal residents" is "enforcing the laws on the books."  Etc. etc. etc.

And of course, minimal enforcement against ANY of the donor class that employs undocumented workers.  Notably missing.  Hmmm.....it's almost like the policy AS PRACTICED BY THIS REGIME is primarily focused on ethnic cleansing, not on practical enforcement.

Posted

Nicole accusing err'one of "black and white nonsense" then sammich guy comes in with "fewer immigrants crossed cause it's the law." Still no policy discussion, just "immigrantion bad."

How about some follow up numbers.

How many corporate executives whose companies use undocumented labor have been prosecuted?

How much in shareholder profits have been disgorged for such heinous crimes? 

I'll wait. 

 

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Posted
18 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Instead they just enforced the laws on the books and daily crossing fell from a high of 10,000 a day in 2023 to 250 a day by October 25

 

 

It’s a pretty fair indictment of current (lack of) immigration policy that no legislative fixes are required to achieve drastically different real-world outcomes; it erodes faith in democratic input and is the result of years of ducking a debate. 
 

This isn’t unique to the U.S., most of the developed world has done this for the last thirty years. The result has been historically notable, rabid shifts in the demographics and character of nations.  The policy consensus was that unbridled economic growth, technocratic management of integration, and a fundamental change in mentality would facilitate this. It appears to have been a mistaken consensus and almost all of the managers of the process would tell you behind closed doors they wish they had a do-over to make decisions more deliberately, slower, and with more debate. 
 

All people, everywhere, throughout history demonstrate frustration and disorientation when their homes and communities change rapidly and in a way seemingly disconnected from preferences and input, and that’s true whether we are talking about new construction or new arrivals. 

Posted
43 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

When a key element of his governance is "be the fucking gestapo," a suggestion of "maybe don't be the gestapo" is fucking stupid and pointless.

This admin has zero interest in immigration reform.  FFS, they are openly in favor of DE-MIGRATION.  They are actively working to remove LEGAL residents from the US.  They have openly stated if you aren't a NATIVE-BORN American (and note, not even THAT is good enough), GTFO.  Period.

There's no "negotiation" or "honest policy discussion" with that shit.  GTFO here with that shit.

You can call it de-migration or you can call it a democratically approved, very specific, reversal of a set of policies and procedures that were actually not voted for. Did anyone vote for a surge 12-15 million immigrants allowed in 4 years? Did they vote for their entry to be facilitated with enclaves placed throughout the country, coincidentally much of it in middle America? Of course not. 

19 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Nicole accusing err'one of "black and white nonsense" then sammich guy comes in with "fewer immigrants crossed cause it's the law." Still no policy discussion, just "immigrantion bad."

How about some follow up numbers.

How many corporate executives whose companies use undocumented labor have been prosecuted?

How much in shareholder profits have been disgorged for such heinous crimes? 

I'll wait. 

 

None

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Posted
57 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

CONGRESS LITERALLY HAD COMPREHENSIVE LEGISLATION READY TO GO.  THAT IS THE PROPOSAL.  And he said "NO," not because there was any policy problem with it, but because (1) he needs immigration as a rallying point issue, and (2) he needs and wants to be cruel and violent.  That's actually the point.  

When a key element of his governance is "be the fucking gestapo," a suggestion of "maybe don't be the gestapo" is fucking stupid and pointless.

This admin has zero interest in immigration reform.  FFS, they are openly in favor of DE-MIGRATION.  They are actively working to remove LEGAL residents from the US.  They have openly stated if you aren't a NATIVE-BORN American (and note, not even THAT is good enough), GTFO.  Period.

There's no "negotiation" or "honest policy discussion" with that shit.  GTFO here with that shit.

 As far as running for office, while I don’t agree with all your takes, I think you should. You’d have most of our votes. We actually know that you give a fuck.
 

As far as honest policy discussions or negotiations I think it’s fair to say both sides have fucked this issue in the ass royally and that both sides need this issue. As a rallying point. Don’t believe me see the third paragraph: 
 

did any of you protest mass deportations under any administration with a Democrat in office? Because, if not, most people’s outrage today holds zero weight with me right now.  Where does the Cheeto rank in terms of mass deportations over the Presidents of the last 25 years? 35? Would he be this hard ass right now if the border situation over the last four years had not imploded? We all know he’s a hard ass but would he be this demonstrative about making sure there is zero entry? And scaring off anyone from even trying? Where were the same or similar protestors under other administrations? Or is it a rule that it’s only one sides fault and you just get outraged when that side is in power? 
 

Since I was a kid (yes no shit) I have wanted us to invest south of the border and bring business and commerce there. I have always wanted a reasonable path to citizenship for people but one that makes sense. I have also always wanted to have a secure border. I want people to have to apply for citizenship while they have been granted resident status in this country. And I do think being granted resident status ought to come with conditions as well. I don’t think it’s cool people overstay their visas for a decade. I don’t think people should be allowed to cross over to this country by any means without going thru proper channels. I don’t believe any of what I wrote about makes me a xenophobic racist asshole.
 

I think this should always apply to ALL citizens of other countries no matter the race nor country of origin of the person. I think every single country on this planet has 💯 right to protect and secure their borders and to deny visas or allow visas or to allow or to deny citizenship to whomever they want (don’t want.) Which means based on my being a phantom SK means i probably ain’t going to be getting many visas accepted in my lifetime. I don’t see the problem at all in what I just wrote period. I think corporations bear tremendous responsibility for this. I don’t agree with how the current administration is handling this issue AT ALL  NOR do I think the previous administration did our country any favors and actually made the situation worse. IMO the previous administration poured gasoline on an already large fire. 

Posted
13 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

did any of you protest mass deportations under any administration with a Democrat in office? Because, if not, most people’s outrage today holds zero weight with me right now.  Where does the Cheeto rank in terms of mass deportations over the Presidents of the last 25 years? 35? Would he be this hard ass right now if the border situation over the last four years had not imploded? We all know he’s a hard ass but would he be this demonstrative about making sure there is zero entry? And scaring off anyone from even trying? Where were the same or similar protestors under other administrations? Or is it a rule that it’s only one sides fault and you just get outraged when that side is in power? 

Again, there was a comprehensive immigration bill that, like with the ACA, the Democrats had capitulated and given the Republicans essentially everything they wanted. Joe Biden was going to sign it. 

Donald Trump said no, you cannot pass that bill while Joe Biden is President, and now we have a fucking gestapo in this country.

Both sides!

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Posted
11 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Have y'all figured out that "encounter at the southern border" ≠ illegal immigrant yet?

I think an encounter at the northern border qualifies also. And do you think the only people crossing over here without going thru the proper channels are Hispanic? That they don’t go to South and come north? Or don’t come in from the north? Or is the north impenetrable? You don’t think ISIS has come across any border into the USA? Or other races? Are there incredibly racist people who just don’t like Hispanics and citizens south of our border? Yes. Fuck those people. Do the vast majority of Americans feel this way? I don’t think so at all. Jmo. 

Posted
9 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

 As far as running for office, while I don’t agree with all your takes, I think you should. You’d have most of our votes. We actually know that you give a fuck.
 

As far as honest policy discussions or negotiations I think it’s fair to say both sides have fucked this issue in the ass royally and that both sides need this issue. As a rallying point. Don’t believe me see the third paragraph: 
 

did any of you protest mass deportations under any administration with a Democrat in office? Because, if not, most people’s outrage today holds zero weight with me right now.  Where does the Cheeto rank in terms of mass deportations over the Presidents of the last 25 years? 35? Would he be this hard ass right now if the border situation over the last four years had not imploded? We all know he’s a hard ass but would he be this demonstrative about making sure there is zero entry? And scaring off anyone from even trying? Where were the same or similar protestors under other administrations? Or is it a rule that it’s only one sides fault and you just get outraged when that side is in power? 
 

Since I was a kid (yes no shit) I have wanted us to invest south of the border and bring business and commerce there. I have always wanted a reasonable path to citizenship for people but one that makes sense. I have also always wanted to have a secure border. I want people to have to apply for citizenship while they have been granted resident status in this country. And I do think being granted resident status ought to come with conditions as well. I don’t think it’s cool people overstay their visas for a decade. I don’t think people should be allowed to cross over to this country by any means without going thru proper channels. I don’t believe any of what I wrote about makes me a xenophobic racist asshole.
 

I think this should always apply to ALL citizens of other countries no matter the race nor country of origin of the person. I think every single country on this planet has 💯 right to protect and secure their borders and to deny visas or allow visas or to allow or to deny citizenship to whomever they want (don’t want.) Which means based on my being a phantom SK means i probably ain’t going to be getting many visas accepted in my lifetime. I don’t see the problem at all in what I just wrote period. I think corporations bear tremendous responsibility for this. I don’t agree with how the current administration is handling this issue AT ALL  NOR do I think the previous administration did our country any favors and actually made the situation worse. IMO the previous administration poured gasoline on an already large fire. 

People, for the most part that I can tell, are currently protesting against

- the illegal deportation of American citizens

- the questionable deportation of undocumented people

- the practice of deporting people in legal process

- and finally the practice of separating families while you do it (citizen, illegal, or undocumented)

Thus gestapo, nazi, etc

I am sure you can find someone online wanting more illegal immigration, but in my experience that isn't the case.

The Obama admin I believe still has the highest body count for deporting illegals and from what I understand did not use the above tactids. I personally liked Ws plan of documenting who is here and upping the border presence to reduce it in the future. Of course any real plan will need cooperation with other countries, synergistic strategies on drug wars, and drug use, and economic policies that reduce the imbalance. 

It amazes me to this day that so many people get so emotional over illegal immigration. We have so many bigger problems in this country IMO that need attention and from what I can tell don't arouse such feelings. The perpetual victimhood angle of blaming others for our hardships is a tale as old as time. 

EOfoJH4WoAAeM-K.jpg

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Posted
4 minutes ago, staboner said:

I personally liked Ws plan of documenting who is here and upping the border presence to reduce it in the future. Of course any real plan will need cooperation with other countries, synergistic strategies on drug wars, and drug use, and economic policies that reduce the imbalance. 

This.  Among the people who are critical of the shit that's gone down the past year, I'd bet that 90%+ of us would be totally on board with that approach.

But there is no interest in this, because the issue is not about ANY of those things.  Listen to the administration when they tell you who they are and what they want.  This is about a white supremacist vision for the country, fueled by irrational xenophobia, built on a shitload of lies (they're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats -- and then JD Vance fucking ADMITTED that was a lie, and the rubes still buy it because it's what they want to hear).

6 minutes ago, staboner said:

It amazes me to this day that so many people get so emotional over illegal immigration. We have so many bigger problems in this country IMO that need attention and from what I can tell don't arouse such feelings. The perpetual victimhood angle of blaming others for our hardships is a tale as old as time. 

And this, this, this.

On the list of things ACTUALLY causing economic, social, criminal, and other issues in this country and among its residents....immigration is WAY down the fucking list.  But it's the issue that gives you the convenient, warm-fuzzy outlet of hating an "other," so that's what matters.

Sorry, guys.  The reason your life sucks, the good jobs are gone, your roads are in disrepair, your healthcare sucks and is more expensive than ever, etc. etc. etc., is NOT because some Haitian people live in Springfield and work their asses off.  It's not because the fantastic construction crew down the street are all fans of mexican league soccer teams.  It's largely because of shit conceived by, implemented by, and currently supported by.....the folks to whom you have handed all the keys of power because they have promised to be dicks to Haitians.  You keep fucking playing yourselves, and you wonder why shit continues to get worse, not better.

 

Oh, and CSB - one of my favorite examples of the utter hypocrisy and how you are getting played: I office not too far from the fancy new building that is the headquarters of the Texas Public Policy Foundation.  You know, the same TPPF (a political advocacy group) that is 100% aligned with the Abbott and Trump administrations.  They built that palace, from the ground up.  One of the things I liked most about that project was . . . at lunch time, a great taco truck would show up to sell lunch to the ENTIRELY hispanic construction crew.  The line to get food was nothing but dudes in hard hats speaking spanish.  And, on occasion, me.  Because I saw a hack to get 4 great tacos for $6.  So, summary: dirty beaners need to GTFO....except while they are building our palace (in which we will have numerous meetings discussing all the ways to crush the dirty beaners), because we are ALL for exploiting their cheap and high-quality labor.  Free from all consequences, of course.  The project was literally 150 yards from platoons of DPS troopers...yet not a SINGLE immigration check took place.  Gosh, what a mystery that is.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Again, there was a comprehensive immigration bill that, like with the ACA, the Democrats had capitulated and given the Republicans essentially everything they wanted. Joe Biden was going to sign it. 

Donald Trump said no, you cannot pass that bill while Joe Biden is President, and now we have a fucking gestapo in this country.

Both sides!

Yes both sides.

 

and Yes Congress (MAGA) denied Biden the bill he wanted to sign. And yes under Trump’s orders. biden then pivoted with several hundred migration based executive orders to try and control the flow which again exploded under his watch particularly between 2022-2023. The Biden administration did manage to get much of what was a paper driven process and move it into the 21st century as well which all subsequent administrations should thank Biden’s people for that.

 

there is more here below at this link about the successes and the failures of the Biden administration in that regard and I suck at paraphrasing and it’s a good read:

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/biden-immigration-legacy
 

It’s the Gestapo now but it never has been before? What about the mass deportations under Obama? 
 

You do realize that EXPEDITED DEPORTATIONS were used BROADLY AND REGULARLY under Obama?
 

You do realize that Obama administration expanded the use of expedited removal which allowed Department of Homeland Security officers to DEPORT individuals WITHOUT a hearing before an immigration judge. Even though this was originally intended for those apprehended at the border but was used far more broadly and is the basis I suppose for what is happening now under the current administration.  but did any of you protest when this expedited removal was happening under Obama? So why is it the Gestapo now but it wasn’t under his watch?
 

This issue is among many why I will never ever be a registered member of either party. Neither side will look inward and just blames the other side. It’s why legit not a damn reasonable thing here ever gets accomplished to truly make our country great. 

Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

You do realize that EXPEDITED DEPORTATIONS were used BROADLY AND REGULARLY under Obama?
 

You do realize that Obama administration expanded the use of expedited removal which allowed Department of Homeland Security officers to DEPORT individuals WITHOUT a hearing before an immigration judge. Even though this was originally intended for those apprehended at the border but was used far more broadly and is the basis I suppose for what is happening now under the current administration.  but did any of you protest when this expedited removal was happening under Obama? So why is it the Gestapo now but it wasn’t under his watch?

Because American citizens weren't being detained? Because people who have legal status weren't being detained at their immigration check-ins and deported? Because government agents weren't ramming their cars into the cars of people they were trying to intimidate or capture, and then lie about what happened? Because agents of the state didn't wear masks and properly identified themselves to members of the public? Because people didn't feel like they needed to always keep their papers on them? Because they weren't shooting protesting priests with pepper balls? Because people weren't being deported to countries they have no connection to? Because we weren't sending people to rot in foreign prisons? Because there wasn't a clear pattern of lawlessness, abuse, lies, and coverups? 

Maybe that's why people didn't seriously call it the Gestapo. Maybe that's why there was plenty of criticism concerning Obama and his immigration policies (and Biden's!) but not mass protests. Maybe a difference of degree actually fucking matters. 

Edited by safe sex
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Posted
5 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Because American citizens weren't being detained? Because people who have legal status weren't being detained at their immigration check-ins and deported? Because government agents weren't ramming their cars into the cars of people they were trying to intimidate or capture, and then lie about what happened? Because agents of the state didn't wear masks and properly identified themselves to members of the public? Because people didn't feel like they needed to always keep their papers on them? Because they weren't shooting protesting priests with pepper balls? Because people weren't being deported to countries they have no connection to? Because we weren't sending people to rot in foreign prisons? Because there wasn't a clear pattern of lawlessness, abuse, lies, and coverups? 

Maybe that's why people didn't seriously call it the Gestapo. Maybe that's why there was plenty of criticism concerning Obama and his immigration policies (and Biden's!) but not mass protests. Maybe a difference of degree actually fucking matters. 

ok yeah, but besides all that, what's different? 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Because American citizens weren't being detained? Because people who have legal status weren't being detained at their immigration check-ins and deported? Because government agents weren't ramming their cars into the cars of people they were trying to intimidate or capture, and then lie about what happened? Because agents of the state didn't wear masks and properly identified themselves to members of the public? Because people didn't feel like they needed to always keep their papers on them? Because they weren't shooting protesting priests with pepper balls? Because people weren't being deported to countries they have no connection to? Because we weren't sending people to rot in foreign prisons? Because there wasn't a clear pattern of lawlessness, abuse, lies, and coverups? 

Maybe that's why people didn't seriously call it the Gestapo. Maybe that's why there was plenty of criticism concerning Obama and his immigration policies (and Biden's!) but not mass protests. Maybe a difference of degree actually fucking matters. 

Also @safe sex you seem like a cool poster from all I have seen. (And I don’t mean Rainey street and lakes i am not luring people 😂) tom Homan the same one everyone hates now rose to power under Obama and was responsible for overseeing the deportation of something like over 400,000 people in a single year 2013. He was like the executive director of ICE under Obama. These mass deportations were largely done without a shred of due process. For those requesting asylum from certain Central American countries their process was sped up under something like Rocket Dockets. In short though, Tom Homan was the chief dude under Obama and crafted much of what was done under his administration via deportation. 

 

This is according to data from the Migration Policy Institute. In short I think it’s something like 75% of those deported under Obama that never saw due process. They didn’t want High profile raids like Trump they opted for silent raids. They perused the employer’s I-9 records for those who were illegal. And they were then fired. And then LATER rounded up but the Obama administration also went after the employers too—aiming to prosecute them. While they weren’t aiming for high profile raids they certainly did do some of those but also went to the homes and communities and also did things during traffic stops. Obama was known as the deporter in chief for a reason. 75% of his deportees didn’t receive due process and were rounded up. Same as here only Trump WANTS this to be high profile and NOT silent like Obama. Which is a reason imo that ICE agents are now at risk. He could have opted for more silent raids but doesn’t want that. Clearly. But make no mistake Obama had them rounded up at traffic stops, sometimes at work sites but mostly at their homes or in their communities. These aren’t people who were expelled at the border, these were people who were living and working here who received zero due process, and Trump just put that entire process on steroids is all. And he likely still won’t have deported as many as Obama did. 
 

the GAO government accountability office maintained that something like 82 American Citizens had been held in detainment centers between 2006-2008. And in his second term overlapping with Trump’s there was something like 170 plus Americans who wrongly detained, arrested or deported under Obama basically. I think something like 70 were actually deported but you’d have to search out the GAO actually numbers. 

Edited by Nicole44
Posted
21 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Because American citizens weren't being detained? Because people who have legal status weren't being detained at their immigration check-ins and deported? Because government agents weren't ramming their cars into the cars of people they were trying to intimidate or capture, and then lie about what happened? Because agents of the state didn't wear masks and properly identified themselves to members of the public? Because people didn't feel like they needed to always keep their papers on them? Because they weren't shooting protesting priests with pepper balls? Because people weren't being deported to countries they have no connection to? Because we weren't sending people to rot in foreign prisons? Because there wasn't a clear pattern of lawlessness, abuse, lies, and coverups? 

Maybe that's why people didn't seriously call it the Gestapo. Maybe that's why there was plenty of criticism concerning Obama and his immigration policies (and Biden's!) but not mass protests. Maybe a difference of degree actually fucking matters. 

Can you list any ill effects of the Biden immigration policy?

Posted
2 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

 

This is according to data from the Migration Policy Institute. In short I think it’s something like 75% of those deported under Obama that never saw due process. They didn’t want High profile raids like Trump they opted for silent raids. They perused the employer’s I-9 records for those who were illegal. And they were then fired. And then LATER rounded up but the Obama administration also went after the employers too—aiming to prosecute them. While they weren’t aiming for high profile raids they certainly did do some of those but also went to the homes and communities and also did things during traffic stops. Obama was known as the deporter in chief for a reason. 75% of his deportees didn’t receive due process and were rounded up. Same as here only Trump WANTS this to be high profile and NOT silent like Obama. Which is a reason imo that ICE agents are now at risk. He could have opted for more silent raids but doesn’t want that. Clearly. But make no mistake Obama had them rounded up at traffic stops, sometimes at work sites but mostly at their homes or in their communities. These aren’t people who were expelled at the border, these were people who were living and working here who received zero due process, and Trump just put that entire process on steroids is all. And he likely still won’t have deported as many as Obama did. 

Quote

When President Obama took office in 2009, his administration abandoned some Bush-era strategies, such as worksite enforcement operations, but allowed others to scale up. By 2013, Secure Communities was operational in all jails and prisons in the United States. And the Border Patrol began systematically applying CDS border-wide starting in 2011.

Congressional funding for immigration enforcement continued to rise. In FY 2012, federal immigration enforcement funding reached nearly $18 billion—a figure 24 percent higher than funding allocated to all other principal federal criminal law enforcement agencies combined (the FBI, Drug Enforcement Administration, Secret Service, U.S. Marshals Service, and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives).

As a result of these resources and strategies, noncitizen removals increased significantly, while apprehensions and overall deportations both remained far lower than the numbers seen under the Bush and Clinton administrations.

PB-Jan2017-T1-large.png

 

PB-Jan2017-F1-581x250.png

 

Quote

Also, removal priorities were increasingly focused on removing noncitizens convicted of crimes. In 2009, 51 percent of interior removals were of individuals convicted of what DHS described as serious crimes. In 2016, DHS reported that more than 90 percent of interior removals were of noncitizens convicted of serious crimes.

 

Quote

While the Obama administration record is characterized by much higher removals than preceding administrations, it also shows less focus on increasing absolute numbers of overall deportations and a higher priority on targeting the removals of recently arrived unauthorized immigrants and criminals. The administration also placed a much lower priority on removing those who had established roots in U.S. communities and had no criminal records. This prioritization was achieved by a slowly evolving but deliberate policy, highlighted by the administration’s November 2014 executive actions on immigration.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/obama-record-deportations-deporter-chief-or-not

  • Haha 2
Posted
30 minutes ago, safe sex said:

Because American citizens weren't being detained? Because people who have legal status weren't being detained at their immigration check-ins and deported? Because government agents weren't ramming their cars into the cars of people they were trying to intimidate or capture, and then lie about what happened? Because agents of the state didn't wear masks and properly identified themselves to members of the public? Because people didn't feel like they needed to always keep their papers on them? Because they weren't shooting protesting priests with pepper balls? Because people weren't being deported to countries they have no connection to? Because we weren't sending people to rot in foreign prisons? Because there wasn't a clear pattern of lawlessness, abuse, lies, and coverups? 

Maybe that's why people didn't seriously call it the Gestapo. Maybe that's why there was plenty of criticism concerning Obama and his immigration policies (and Biden's!) but not mass protests. Maybe a difference of degree actually fucking matters. 

Wow this is a lot of tHoUgHt pOliCiNg

  • Haha 2
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Hank_Hill said:

Wow this is a lot of tHoUgHt pOliCiNg

Oh, and if you wonder HOW we know that this isn't about "ZOMG, WE JUST WANT PEOPLE TO DO IT THE RIGHT WAY," remember the unambiguous statement of one of the most trusted and followed advisers of the administration:

6459951fcdd784c8f91b50da85df73c2

Not "11 million illegals," or whatever the number they choose to go with today.  65 million.  A number chosen on purpose, with precision.  There are 65 million hispanics in the US.

@Nicole44, one of the key voices of the administration called for me, and my entire family, to go away.  Well, not to go away -- to die.  Do you think that I should try to engage in "productive dialogue" with people who plainly, openly, and unabashedly believe that my entire ethnicity must be removed from this country?  OUR country?  You know, the one I'm a natural-born citizen of?

Put your white-ass in my shoes.  Or, shit, just imagine you're a jew in 1933 Europe (jewish population at the time: 9.5 million), and one of Hitler's leading advisers said "the good news is, the camps we are building have room for 9.5 million people."  What would YOU think?  That he was just talking about the, ummm, criminal jews?  Or illegal immigrant jews?  What would YOU do?

This is motte and bailey fallacy bullshit.  What is happening now is NOT about "enforcing our laws."  It is about ethnic cleansing.  "Remigration" is not about getting illegals to leave.  It is not even about getting all immigrants - even legal ones - to leave.  It is about purging American of everyone who doesn't meet the aryan purity test.

65 million.  The regime did not use that number by accident.  I am in their crosshairs.  So are my children.  How would YOU approach that?  It's really fucking easy to sit on the sidelines and both sides this shit when you and yours aren't the targets.  When you and yours won't be thrown to the ground in a "Kavanaugh stop."  When you and yours won't be detained for hours because the authorities won't accept your Real ID as proof of citizenship, and you must be fucking stupid for not traveling with your passport every time you leave the house to go to the store.  You don't have to worry about any of that....and thus, you don't care.  If THAT is the America you want, fuck you.

Edited by Brisketexan
  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted

"But it's just about enforcing our laws!  Just do it the right way!  We have no problem with people who do it the right way!"

 

Fuck off with your motte and bailey bullshit lies about "just enforce our laws."

It was never, ever, ever, ever about actually enforcing laws and stopping illegal immigration.  It's about good old-fashioned white-supremacist nativist bullshit.  It's not even fucking original.  It's the same bullshit the same pathetic loser fucks have been spouting for 150 years.  Congratufuckinglations, you're just as fucking racist and dumb as a fucking uneducated dipshit living in the 1890s spouting the same stupid rants.

The problem in 1890 wasn't the dirty Irish coming over.

The problem in 2025 isn't dirty brown people over here.

The problem both times was utter fucking idiots who blamed the Irish or brown people for their own shitty lives, which were mostly shitty because they are fucking dumbasses, and also because those dumbasses thought that robber-barons selling nativist bullshit to divide and conquer were actually there to help them.  They weren't, and they aren't.  They're here to keep you distracted, so they can keep fucking you over.  And it still works, because you're still dumbasses.

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