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Surly Thread of Business Owners/Managers, Etc. & Current Business Climate


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After seeing the assholes who got them on the first round (large business, NGO's, etc) I will apply this time. Work has been steady with a slight decrease which is why we did not apply the first time. And now with the end of the Federal Year it is always our busy time. 

Go get it Surly, lets replenish the wreath fund.

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8 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I'm not so sure this is a good idea unless it is VERY focused and merit based. 

Agreed.  The email I received from our Surly banker friend indicated that this round would be for "qualified" businesses.

Quote

 

Last night, Senate Small Business Committee Chair Marco Rubio (R-FL) released an updated summary of his draft COVID IV legislation. While this version is a scaled-back version of his initial proposal with Sen. Susan Collins, it does include:

 • Continued access to the PPP with a new maximum loan amount of $2 million

• Allowance for a second loan from PPP for eligible businesses

• Borrower selection of a forgiveness period--either the 8-week period after loan origination, or the covered period ending Dec. 31, 2020.

• Lender hold harmless providing that “no enforcement action could be taken against a lender who in good faith relied on a certification or documentation submitted by a borrower of a covered loan.”

• “Simplified forgiveness” for loans under $150,000 as well as loans between $150,000 and $2,000,000.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Wally Pryor said:

I can't see this happening.    Yes, defining "eligibility" (and certifying) would seemingly be a bitch. 

We have to do certified payroll on some government projects.  The system is in place to track payroll spending.  They just have to use it.

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  • 2 months later...
2 hours ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Has the SBA opened it up yet? Our bank said there's no need to submit an application yet because the SBA isn't taking them.

I literally just got an email from my bank this morning about it. So I guess I will work on it this week. I'd like to get it forgiven before 12/31/2020 if at all possible. 

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22 hours ago, hornian said:

Anyone submitted a PPP forgiveness application yet? And if so, has it been approved?

Yup. Months ago. My bank said similar to what Cheese's did, that they haven't even started processing them yet. Told my banker it was a pain in the ass keeping two sets of books, one with and one without forgiveness, and he told me to throw the one without forgiveness in the trash. Basically said they're hearing that the government has absolutely no way to handle the volume of forgiveness apps and will approve everything with a few random audits, and maybe look at anything above a certain very large dollar amount. But YMMV, IANAL, etc.

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39 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

Yup. Months ago. My bank said similar to what Cheese's did, that they haven't even started processing them yet. Told my banker it was a pain in the ass keeping two sets of books, one with and one without forgiveness, and he told me to throw the one without forgiveness in the trash. Basically said they're hearing that the government has absolutely no way to handle the volume of forgiveness apps and will approve everything with a few random audits, and maybe look at anything above a certain very large dollar amount. But YMMV, IANAL, etc.

Listen bub, leave the Anal talk in IPIHB. 

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Yup. Months ago. My bank said similar to what Cheese's did, that they haven't even started processing them yet. Told my banker it was a pain in the ass keeping two sets of books, one with and one without forgiveness, and he told me to throw the one without forgiveness in the trash. Basically said they're hearing that the government has absolutely no way to handle the volume of forgiveness apps and will approve everything with a few random audits, and maybe look at anything above a certain very large dollar amount. But YMMV, IANAL, etc.
2 sets of books? That's a big no- no. There is one set of books at all times.
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5 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:
1 hour ago, BradInATX said:
Yup. Months ago. My bank said similar to what Cheese's did, that they haven't even started processing them yet. Told my banker it was a pain in the ass keeping two sets of books, one with and one without forgiveness, and he told me to throw the one without forgiveness in the trash. Basically said they're hearing that the government has absolutely no way to handle the volume of forgiveness apps and will approve everything with a few random audits, and maybe look at anything above a certain very large dollar amount. But YMMV, IANAL, etc.

2 sets of books? That's a big no- no. There is one set of books at all times.

Probably fair. But I mean it's a single-tab excel document where my net running cash flow now has a second row beneath it with the PPP loan not forgiven, so I feel like I can probably not botch it up. I'm just a single member S-Corp with monthly paychecks, not Surly 1% CxO status.

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Probably fair. But I mean it's a single-tab excel document where my net running cash flow now has a second row beneath it with the PPP loan not forgiven, so I feel like I can probably not botch it up. I'm just a single member S-Corp with monthly paychecks, not Surly 1% CxO status.


But why do that? Are you showing banks financials without the ppp loan in there?
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1 minute ago, Chewbacca said:


 

 


But why do that? Are you showing banks financials without the ppp loan in there?

 

I've never had to show a bank my financials. I just keep track of cash flow and cash on hand, so I'm essentially projecting cash with and without the loan being forgiven, if that makes sense.

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I've never had to show a bank my financials. I just keep track of cash flow and cash on hand, so I'm essentially projecting cash with and without the loan being forgiven, if that makes sense.


You are correct in that once you put in your forgiveness app, you can eliminate that from your financials because whether your app is correct or not, the SBA won't have the man power to check them.
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After seeing the assholes who got them on the first round (large business, NGO's, etc) I will apply this time. Work has been steady with a slight decrease which is why we did not apply the first time. And now with the end of the Federal Year it is always our busy time. 
Go get it Surly, lets replenish the wreath fund.
If it is going to help keep people employed and your business going forward, then certainly do it. It was a good $160,000 "loan" that helped my business to mot get strapped early on during COVID.
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8 hours ago, Chewbacca said:
9 hours ago, BradInATX said:
Yup. Months ago. My bank said similar to what Cheese's did, that they haven't even started processing them yet. Told my banker it was a pain in the ass keeping two sets of books, one with and one without forgiveness, and he told me to throw the one without forgiveness in the trash. Basically said they're hearing that the government has absolutely no way to handle the volume of forgiveness apps and will approve everything with a few random audits, and maybe look at anything above a certain very large dollar amount. But YMMV, IANAL, etc.

2 sets of books? That's a big no- no. There is one set of books at all times.

I take it you've never done business overseas?  In Brazil there was "Caixa 1" which was official money (reported for tax) and Caixa 2, which was everything else.  The US respect for rule of law in taxes has always impressed me.  Evasion is a sport in most countries.

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On 10/25/2020 at 9:28 PM, hornian said:

Anyone submitted a PPP forgiveness application yet? And if so, has it been approved?

My bank says it will be forgiven, but doesn't even want the paperwork yet.  They don't trust the SBA not to change the requirements / requests and they don't want to put themselves or us through the hassle.  They're saying to just sit back and wait.

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Just now, Reagan1k said:

My bank says it will be forgiven, but doesn't even want the paperwork yet.  They don't trust the SBA not to change the requirements / requests and they don't want to put themselves or us through the hassle.  They're saying to just sit back and wait.

Same. Our fiscal year ended 9/30, so we have a year to mess with it. 

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My bank says it will be forgiven, but doesn't even want the paperwork yet.  They don't trust the SBA not to change the requirements / requests and they don't want to put themselves or us through the hassle.  They're saying to just sit back and wait.

I have a few clients that have submitted and have been told the same. All under $500k in funds received.

The current guidance on M&A transactions has deals getting done thankfully.
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SBA just released a required questionnaire (Form 3509) for loans over $2M in the last couple of days. I don’t know that it is approved but it is out there. It’s an f-ing mess, let the lawsuits begin.

They were approving loans a couple of months ago, but the uncertainty inside of Congress shut it back down again. I haven’t seen any forgiven recently.

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43 minutes ago, Brew said:

SBA just released a required questionnaire (Form 3509) for loans over $2M in the last couple of days. I don’t know that it is approved but it is out there. It’s an f-ing mess, let the lawsuits begin.

They were approving loans a couple of months ago, but the uncertainty inside of Congress shut it back down again. I haven’t seen any forgiven recently.

It was always my assumption something like that form would happen to assess need.  I would guess they will get to clawbacks too, on previously forgiven large loans that didn’t have “need”.

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17 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

It was always my assumption something like that form would happen to assess need.  I would guess they will get to clawbacks too, on previously forgiven large loans that didn’t have “need”.

It’s in the comment phase, so we will see what happens. It will end up in court as treating the over $2M differently than the under is going to easily get challenged when the app was the same for both.

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On 10/25/2020 at 9:28 PM, hornian said:

Anyone submitted a PPP forgiveness application yet? And if so, has it been approved?

We submitted the application in September.  Bank approved it at the end of September, and the SBA approved it in mid-October.  Bank received the payoff two weeks ago.

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Playing catch-up on discussions. Most large banks are telling customers to hold tight on submissions so the 60 day clock doesn’t start on them before they are ramped up. We have uploaded probably 20 of the 86 loans we booked and something like 15 have already paid off. If your loan is at or below $50k use the Form 3508S. No need to send bank supporting docs, but you need to retain for 6 years (last paragraph on 3508S instructions). S form payoffs are coming back in a matter of days. The long and ez form applications are taking a few weeks. 
Rumors on second round qualifications appear to be for businesses that show 50% drop in revenues over prior year. No more detail than that so far. 
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  • 3 weeks later...

Yeah, our initial forgiveness was rejected.

The other things that pisses me off is the loan documents implied that as long as 75% of the loan went to payroll/mortgage/etc the whole loan would be forgiven.

That is not the case. Only money spent on payroll/mortgage/etc will be forgiven.

 

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Yeah, our initial forgiveness was rejected.
The other things that pisses me off is the loan documents implied that as long as 75% of the loan went to payroll/mortgage/etc the whole loan would be forgiven.
That is not the case. Only money spent on payroll/mortgage/etc will be forgiven.
 
Will your bank work with you to sort that out? I would lean on them.
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Yeah, our initial forgiveness was rejected.
The other things that pisses me off is the loan documents implied that as long as 75% of the loan went to payroll/mortgage/etc the whole loan would be forgiven.
That is not the case. Only money spent on payroll/mortgage/etc will be forgiven.
 
Best double check that as we had the entire loan forgiven using the 75%. Also, you can stretch that forgiveness period out to more than the original 8 weeks to help "use up" more of the loan.
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On 11/24/2020 at 10:13 AM, blacklab said:

Yeah, our initial forgiveness was rejected.

The other things that pisses me off is the loan documents implied that as long as 75% of the loan went to payroll/mortgage/etc the whole loan would be forgiven.

That is not the case. Only money spent on payroll/mortgage/etc will be forgiven.

 

Already mentioned but make sure you use 24 week covered period. That should definitely help given loan amount was based on a 12 week period. 

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Yeah, our initial forgiveness was rejected.
The other things that pisses me off is the loan documents implied that as long as 75% of the loan went to payroll/mortgage/etc the whole loan would be forgiven.
That is not the case. Only money spent on payroll/mortgage/etc will be forgiven.
 

Initially 75% to payroll and 25% to other qualified expenses ie. rent, utilities, mortgage. Later revised to 60% payroll, 40% other qualified.


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  • 3 weeks later...

End of year bump.  If you would have told me in July that we would exceed last yeras revenue by 17.66% I would have told you that you were crazy.  Well, here I sit on December 11th and that is where our revenue for 2020 sits.

It was a lot of hard work and we adapted and most of all my guys did fantastic work and hit every project deadline we had.  I hope all of you have had a similar recovery and here's to a fantastic 2021 for all.

Thanks to our friend at FNB who helped a lot of us in our time of need and what seemed like our darkest days.  Robert, you are a fantastic human being.

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End of year bump.  If you would have told me in July that we would exceed last yeras revenue by 17.66% I would have told you that you were crazy.  Well, here I sit on December 11th and that is where our revenue for 2020 sits.
It was a lot of hard work and we adapted and most of all my guys did fantastic work and hit every project deadline we had.  I hope all of you have had a similar recovery and here's to a fantastic 2021 for all.
Thanks to our friend at FNB who helped a lot of us in our time of need and what seemed like our darkest days.  Robert, you are a fantastic human being.
Fuck yes. We had a terrible 2020 up until November. We are now crushing our 2021 goals. Already have 2x the work booked that we hoped for 21, and have verbals on another 2x.
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End of year bump.  If you would have told me in July that we would exceed last yeras revenue by 17.66% I would have told you that you were crazy.  Well, here I sit on December 11th and that is where our revenue for 2020 sits.
It was a lot of hard work and we adapted and most of all my guys did fantastic work and hit every project deadline we had.  I hope all of you have had a similar recovery and here's to a fantastic 2021 for all.
Thanks to our friend at FNB who helped a lot of us in our time of need and what seemed like our darkest days.  Robert, you are a fantastic human being.

End of year bump.  If you would have told me in July that we would exceed last yeras revenue by 17.66% I would have told you that you were crazy.  Well, here I sit on December 11th and that is where our revenue for 2020 sits.
It was a lot of hard work and we adapted and most of all my guys did fantastic work and hit every project deadline we had.  I hope all of you have had a similar recovery and here's to a fantastic 2021 for all.
Thanks to our friend at FNB who helped a lot of us in our time of need and what seemed like our darkest days.  Robert, you are a fantastic human being.

481dc4cecbafd069fbc31a5745efb703.jpg

Seriously, it’s a privilege to help.


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We are flat this year, but slightly ahead in margin. When our PPP gets forgiven, it will be a great year.

Very happy and feel extremely lucky. This has been such a weird business year, reading about industries getting "hammered" but most of the business owners I know are doing as good or better than last year. Very specific industries (food/beverage/travel) have been obviously hurt but this doesn't seem nearly as bad as the last recession. 

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Has anyone heard any verifiable information from the IRS regarding taxes on PPP funds?

I had a call with my CPA last week about the PPP and tax implications.  Seems like that is still up in the air.  No news.  He said that he didn't think there would be clarification until after the inauguration as there would probably be some better language in a second round of PPP funds (even if we don't qualify for those) that would set the precedent from a tax perspective.  Worst case scenario, we rat-holed 30% of our PPP into a separate account (out of sight... out of mind) in the event that taxes are due on those funds.  If not, we pay off several financed vehicles and invest at a much faster rate on some of our pending 2021 capital purchases.  FYI, we're 99.99% confident that our PPP is going to be 100% forgivable.  

'

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