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Hank Kingsley

The future of the Progressive Left

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42 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

It's been fascinating to see how easily Twitter Grifter Ryan Knight has infiltrated the Bernie Left. 

Huh.   Great retort there, hank.  Did I miss the lack of grift in the DNC, or is that something you're just don't care about?

 

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1 minute ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Huh.   Great retort there, hank.  Did I miss the lack of grift in the DNC, or is that something you're just don't care about?

 

Wasn't a retort, just a comment. The dude was an absolute joke when his Twitter handle was @ProudResister, and it's a joke now as @ProudSocialist. 

But thanks for the whataboutism. DNC can fuck off as well. 

 

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Just now, Hank Kingsley said:

Wasn't a retort, just a comment. The dude was an absolute joke when his Twitter handle was @ProudResister, and it's a joke now as @ProudSocialist. 

But thanks for the whataboutism. DNC can fuck off as well. 

 

I don't know anything about him, but the points he makes lately seem pretty damn relevant to me.   

I lean heavily towards yet another third party is doomed from the start and most of this doesn't matter since the end (the country, the climate) has been in sight for some time now.  But I do get the urge to tilt at windmills nonetheless when there are no real options in this duopoly. 

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1 minute ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

I don't know anything about him

Well, there you go. The Twitter grift doesn't belong to a political party. It consists of Trumpkins, establishment Ds, and even people that talk a good progressive game. Ryan Knight is a special case. He grifted as part of the #Resistance for years, then bailed for Warren, then bailed for Bernie earlier this year. The dude is just trying to make a buck and insert himself in a position of political power. I have to admit I'm surprised that it seems to be working with progressives. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Well, there you go. The Twitter grift doesn't belong to a political party. It consists of Trumpkins, establishment Ds, and even people that talk a good progressive game. Ryan Knight is a special case. He grifted as part of the #Resistance for years, then bailed for Warren, then bailed for Bernie earlier this year. The dude is just trying to make a buck and insert himself in a position of political power. I have to admit I'm surprised that it seems to be working with progressives. 

 

 

 

Seems the only place I can find him being called a grifter is r/enough_sanders_spam which maybe has a bit of a biased take.

Again, fine, I'll accept on total faith from internet poster Hank K that he's a bad guy.  Someone who belittles an entire train of thought by calling it the "Bernie left."  Out of curiosity, do you consider the Pod Save America folks grifters?

Who then, Hank K, would you have me post tweets from?

Edit:  If genuine (and apparently you don't think it is) that progression seems natural to me for someone thinking about issues.  Same with Peter Daou

 

Edited by MC Fresh Breath

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1 minute ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

 

Seems the only place I can find him being called a grifter is r/enough_sanders_spam which maybe has a bit of a biased take.

Again, fine, I'll accept on total faith from internet poster Hank K that he's a bad guy.  Someone who belittles an entire train of thought by calling it the "Bernie left."  Out of curiosity, do you consider the Pod Save America folks grifters?

Who then, Hank K, would you have me post tweets from?

 

 

I was commenting on the fact he was speaking at a virtual convention with Cornell West and Nina Turner, two very important people on the Bernie left. 

I don't expect you to know who is and isn't a grifter, but it's healthy to have some cynicism regarding Twitter personalities you don't really know much about. The PSA guys are real people that worked in an presidential administration. So no, I don't think they are grifters.

I'm not proud of it, but I know my way around Twitter. It's fascinating and disturbing at the same time.  Lots of bad faith people taking advantage of susceptible users.

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3 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I was commenting on the fact he was speaking at a virtual convention with Cornell West and Nina Turner, two very important people on the Bernie left. 

I don't expect you to know who is and isn't a grifter, but it's healthy to have some cynicism regarding Twitter personalities you don't really know much about. The PSA guys are real people that worked in an presidential administration. So no, I don't think they are grifters.

I'm not proud of it, but I know my way around Twitter. It's fascinating and disturbing at the same time.  Lots of bad faith people taking advantage of susceptible users.

 

I guess I don't know how the grift works.  It seems to imply he's being disingenuous in his progression from corporate centrist to leftist.  I find the "grift" of MSNBC  (and the entire DNC) to be way more insidious than a random twitter account that I happen to agree with a good chunk of the postings (as of recently only, if he said something whacked out in the past, then OK).

If you mean he's somehow conned Cornell West into getting paid, well, OK I guess.  But didn't he choose a bad grift then, in terms of income?  Wouldn't aligning with the Lincoln Project be a better proposition?  To me it reads like ex-smoker becoming the most annoying anti-smoker in the room.  But you admittedly do seem to follow the personalities more so I could be very wrong.

Just seems a strange thing to pile onto, as opposed to say the reasons why the DNC went all in against M4A....

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11 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Just so you know I'm not trying to pick on leftists, here's a good list of #Resistance/Establishment Dem grifters.  All of these people really suck.

https://theoutline.com/post/5973/meet-the-resistance-grifters?zd=1&zi=kiqsi6uc

That is a great list of grifters taking advantage of the "Resistance" voters. Thanks for the link. 

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Just so you know I'm not trying to pick on leftists, here's a good list of #Resistance/Establishment Dem grifters.  All of these people really suck.
https://theoutline.com/post/5973/meet-the-resistance-grifters?zd=1&zi=kiqsi6uc
I'm not mad at Ryan Knight because he's promoting socialist ideas. I just fucking hate grifters. 
 
 
 

Fair enough Hank. Sorry I was a bit aggro there. I misread intent.

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So I don’t disagree with those listed in that article (never trusted many of those folks), but I didn’t see Mr. Knight in it.

Not that he is a “hill I want to die on” really. Just curious.

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3 hours ago, hpslugga said:

What liberals are in favor of those things?

All of us and most people.  I'd also like to add police accountability.  

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Typical silence from the misogynists on the left when a kween gets nominated for VP with her #girlpower. This is what real progress looks like Bernie Bros. 

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4 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

All of us and most people.  I'd also like to add police accountability.  

When I asked you that, I was referring to the D candidates.

Only 2 of them (Warren and Sanders) pushed M4A. The rest (i.e. the liberals) either argued Obamacare was fine the way it is or that a public option needed to be included. The latter position was really just a cheap attempt to expand the tent because in reality, the private insurance and medical industry would never allow that to work (any more than FedEX or UPS or DHL wants the USPS to stay in business). As far as education, I've yet to see anything meaningful from that crowd either.

Now, perhaps your definition of "liberal" differs from mine. Mine is taken from the classical definition, which is a political centrist as seen on the compass:

Compass2.png

These are the same people to which Phil Ochs referred in "Love me, I'm a Liberal."

These are the same people who cheered candidate Biden when he said this:

In his comments about the younger generations, I can already see where it's going...and then he confirms it with this "we changed the world" nonsense. It's typical delusions of grandeur from that generation, and it's why I invoked the car analogy. You may not have liked it, but it's accurate nonetheless. If the Joe Bidens of the world want to pretend that shit's all sunshine and daisies for the millennial-and-younger generations and if he wants to pretend his generation "changed the world," he's living in a recurring mindset that presents itself throughout history. It's called the "end of history" mindset. It basically reads "we're as advanced as we're ever going to be, everything is as close to perfect as it's going to get, we don't need to change anything." It's utter horseshit, and I shouldn't have to explain why as I'm sure anyone with a brainstem who posts here already knows.

Don't get me wrong; I unhesitatingly will cast my vote for him this November...but I'm not going to be spiking any footballs or running any victory laps if and when he wins. I'll simply be saying that we bought ourselves some time and that the progressive trend that's happening in Congress needs to expand rapidly.

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1 hour ago, hpslugga said:

When I asked you that, I was referring to the D candidates.

Only 2 of them (Warren and Sanders) pushed M4A. The rest (i.e. the liberals) either argued Obamacare was fine the way it is or that a public option needed to be included. The latter position was really just a cheap attempt to expand the tent because in reality, the private insurance and medical industry would never allow that to work (any more than FedEX or UPS or DHL wants the USPS to stay in business). As far as education, I've yet to see anything meaningful from that crowd either.

Now, perhaps your definition of "liberal" differs from mine. Mine is taken from the classical definition, which is a political centrist as seen on the compass:

Compass2.png

These are the same people to which Phil Ochs referred in "Love me, I'm a Liberal."

These are the same people who cheered candidate Biden when he said this:

In his comments about the younger generations, I can already see where it's going...and then he confirms it with this "we changed the world" nonsense. It's typical delusions of grandeur from that generation, and it's why I invoked the car analogy. You may not have liked it, but it's accurate nonetheless. If the Joe Bidens of the world want to pretend that shit's all sunshine and daisies for the millennial-and-younger generations and if he wants to pretend his generation "changed the world," he's living in a recurring mindset that presents itself throughout history. It's called the "end of history" mindset. It basically reads "we're as advanced as we're ever going to be, everything is as close to perfect as it's going to get, we don't need to change anything." It's utter horseshit, and I shouldn't have to explain why as I'm sure anyone with a brainstem who posts here already knows.

Don't get me wrong; I unhesitatingly will cast my vote for him this November...but I'm not going to be spiking any footballs or running any victory laps if and when he wins. I'll simply be saying that we bought ourselves some time and that the progressive trend that's happening in Congress needs to expand rapidly.

Yes, I get it.  Just weary of the no matter who the Dem candidates are, they get torn apart and the base divides.  There's a lot about Biden I dislike--career politician being a big one, especially from the age where he comes from which meant he voted to help Republicans damage and break shit to get here.  I'm a big fan of Warren, Pete, Stacey Abrams, and while there's some Kamala baggage, I'll stand in line and vote for them this fall.  And they're all brighter than Biden.  For the first time in a while, and maybe it's because there's not a lot of sports, but the youth is involved and I'm convinced they're capable.  If we can survive Trump, I think that we can potentially see Republicans on the descent.  But Democrats will fragment because they have a bunch of voices, and not a singular message and Dems will allow them to rebound.  But hopefully the youth can work on this.  Biden will probably let them off the hook like Obama did.  It's in their centrist nature.  

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21 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

So I don’t disagree with those listed in that article (never trusted many of those folks), but I didn’t see Mr. Knight in it.

Not that he is a “hill I want to die on” really. Just curious.

You're looking for an article or list with Ryan Knight on it? Yeah, sorry, can't help you there. There were a lot of #Resistance grifters more "important" or influential than Knight at that time. 

But here's a tweet from a couple of years ago (click on the tweet to see the rest of his thread), where he considers people like Scott Dworkin (@funder) and the Krassenstein Bros. as part of his "resistance family". Other hucksters like Jon Cooper and William LeGate are on there as well. 

Doubt there's a single Bernie progressive or socialist out of the 50-60 names he has on here. All Establishment Dems, Resisters, and BUT, BUT RUSSIA folks. 

 

 

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I talked about it before, but the neo-cons and Iraq War architects becoming best friends with RESIST! Dems is a depressing confirmation of just how turbofucked we are now at the national Dem level now that progressives (1) lost the primary and (2) were shut out completely from formation of the national platform and VP slot (and future cabinet slots, which will go to neo-cons and neo-con friends).

Sanders or Warren was the shortcut. But the national Dems are fucking garbage.

Future is still ours, though, it's just more distant and we will have to fight harder.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:



Future is still ours, though, it's just more distant and we will have to fight harder.

 

I think you have more optimism than I do.

 

 Just one example of course, of the environmental destruction coming our way:

https://news.yahoo.com/canary-coal-mine-greenland-ice-221149221.html

There's obviously other signs of pretty bad things that the scientists have been trying to warn us about for decades.  While Trump is an absolute madman his path was paved by his predecessors who continually expanded Executive powers, never contracting them.  Hell, Pelosi tears up his speech while voting for his budgets. As do most Dems.  Endless war, expanded drone bombings, a military industrial complex that is so damn bloated that is consuming us all w/o complaint. This isn't to mention the complete Wall Street control (interesting that no matter who wins, there will be some Goldman Sachs folks in charge somewhere), Monstanto, on and on.

And as  you know, the entire two party system is set up to support it.  To feed the beast and the corpulent leeches who grow fatter every day while the rest of us are getting slowly but surely pushed further down to where the future looks a hell of a lot like the China we're opposed to, ironically enough. 

 

Edit:  Forgot to even mention that we can't even get concessions on universal health care during a pandemic that has illustrated the very exact need for it.

 

 

The filthy money that corrupts all isn't going away.  And yes, we tilt at the windmills and we complain, but the AOC's, Talib's, Sanders's of the world become yesterday's Kucinich's of the world.  They either continue to make good points that are summarily ignored (after the initial 'likes' in social media), or they stay in the system long enough to become jaded and eventually corrupted themselves.  

I wish I had your optimism, but it seems to me 'doomed' is pretty apt.  At one point, I selfishly thought that the worst of it would happen after my time on this earth.  But even my cynical ass has been surprised at the acceleration of the collapse. 

Edited by MC Fresh Breath

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They're at least having to pretend to be progressive.

What gives me hope is the sustained class-based protest movement. Power is the people's, ultimately.

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1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:



Future is still ours, though, it's just more distant and we will have to fight harder.

No effort to change society is ever easy, but you know that. Had Sanders or Warren been the nominee (Or in Warren's case at least the VP choice) the platform would look different, but implementing it is another story. The battle is in changing the mindset of the electorate and getting them to support things that will help everyone. As a whole, the American mindset is still a selfish one. The change is coming though. I wish things progressed faster than they do, but having to deal with rooting out all the corruption of Dotard's cult once they are out of office is going to be a years long cleanup job. 

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13 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

The battle is in changing the mindset of the electorate and getting them to support things that will help everyone.

If you look at the polling, the Democratic voters are far more progressive than their Democratic representatives. They will follow the leader.

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8 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

If you look at the polling, the Democratic voters are far more progressive than their Democratic representatives. They will follow the leader.

Well what happens is more of the people with a progressive mindset will eventually hold elected office and the views that right now seem so radical like Medicare for All will eventually be a mainstream platform that enough people accept. I still can't fathom why it's seen as such a bad thing, but it's cool. Just gotta keep pushing and pushing. I am reading a book right now about the Civil Rights movement and seeing the resistance that African-Americans got for demanding to be looked at as equal to their white counterparts helps me to have more patience in realizing how long this fight will be to overhaul society again.

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Should we expect a future split? Biden will throw them the occasional bone but not much more. Healthcare will be the key fight between the two. 

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1 hour ago, Skyline said:

Should we expect a future split? Biden will throw them the occasional bone but not much more. Healthcare will be the key fight between the two. 

A split would be a bad move, they have movement on their side and should continue to grow their numbers within the party.

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2 hours ago, Skyline said:

Should we expect a future split? Biden will throw them the occasional bone but not much more. Healthcare will be the key fight between the two. 

One of the squad voted down the 2020 platform?  

good_im_glad_donald_glover.gif

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42 minutes ago, F250 said:

A split would be a bad move, they have movement on their side and should continue to grow their numbers within the party.

It may not be a full split, but the Biden admin shouldn't count on the progressive members' support 100% of the time. Biden will have to court the progressive as their own faction. 

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Hmm...
 
Kppp0e's CR contribution still being about realignment is so on brand

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Posted (edited)

Once the Trump Era is over, there’s going to be a void to fill on the right.  I hope the libertarians get their shit together because they’re not going to get a better opportunity to mobilize and seize some power.  Who am I kidding, it’s going to be the Mitt Romney/John Kasich party again. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz

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1 hour ago, gmr548 said:
On 8/11/2020 at 1:38 PM, kopp0e said:
Hmm...
 

Kppp0e's CR contribution still being about realignment is so on brand

Let me "fix my ways" (of not making sure I post on the right thread)...


What does a change in leadership do, for the widening gap of "distanced learning" for pupils..? 

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Once the Trump Era is over, there’s going to be a void to fill on the right.  I hope the libertarians get their shit together because they’re not going to get a better opportunity to mobilize and seize some power.  Who am I kidding, it’s going to be the Mitt Romney/John Kasich party again. 
It's going to stay the Trumpist party. The Tom Cottons and the SC Hitler dreamhouse kids of the world will make sure of that. They are past the point of no return.

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If you want to understand the current sentiment among the “progressive left”, this synopsis thread by Bree Newsome Bass captures it well. 

CONTINUED:

The bipartisan, corporatist establishment has succeeded again in forcing us into a position of having no choice but to pick between the fascism they continually enable or the status quo that has been killing us since before they normalized & enabled Trump’s rise to power. 

Who repeatedly sought Trump’s endorsement for their presidential runs? Who dined w/ him at WH Correspondents’ Dinners? Who cared more about “civility” than resisting fascism? The very same political figures who now pretend they have no idea where this man came from.

Stating the obvious, that the only alternative to Biden is 4 more yrs of Trump, is not a counter-argument but rather proves the point— that the system ultimately operates to crush any effort made toward racial & economic justice by paralyzing us & offering us no real choices. 

It is ultimately *the policies* of the government that are killing us & that is where the bipartisan establishment remains most intractable & unresponsive to the needs of average people & especially to the needs of working class Black, brown & Indigenous communities. 

The #1 priority of the bipartisan establishment is to maintain the status quo of racial capitalism b/c it is profitable to them personally. They were willing to enable Trump as long as he wasn’t too disruptive to that status quo b/c they view leftism as more disruptive.

Shifting demographics in USA have made it such that “diversity & inclusion” is now essential to preserving the status quo. The establishment refuses to budge much on policy but embraces the idea of PoC legislators enacting the same deadly policies of their white predecessors. 

So now we have Black officials wearing “Black Lives Matter” buttons & painting murals on the streets as police continue to brutalize & kill working class people on those very same streets & as millions face homelessness & loss of healthcare. 

The status quo is preserved. 

Am I telling folks not to vote? NO.

If Trump isn’t soundly defeated, things will get exponentially worse exponentially faster. THAT SAID, if folks don’t recognize these dynamics I’m speaking to, things will still get worse, not better & we will be stuck on this hamster wheel.

Why will things get worse? 

Because, again, it is the 
👉POLICIES👈
that are killing us. 

If the policy is deadly, it doesn’t matter what race or ethnicity or party affiliation or religion or gender or sexuality the legislator is. We will keep dying & keep being killed.

The mayor being Black does not save anyone’s life when that mayor still gives more funding to the murderous police force than to the housing fund. We can appoint Black people to every political office in the land & we’ll still be dying unless the policies drastically change.

Folks also need to prepare for the alliance that elects Biden to collapse immediately after the election is over.

Just because folks are pouring resources into electing Biden does NOT at all mean they will pour resources into protecting our communities from racist backlash.

One of the largest, most powerful police unions in the nation just endorsed Trump. Where do you see the bipartisan alliance for Biden raising alarms around that as much as they have with the attacks on the postal service? You don’t & you won’t. 

I said before when the establishment was criticizing Trump’s use of federal forces in US cities that their criticism was about jurisdictional power, not the violent political repression of protesters. Do you see them raising the same alarm about localized police violence? No.

My hope is folks understand why it’s strategically wise to vote Trump & Repubs out of office

AND ALSO

that November will only mark the beginning of a more turbulent era in this country b/c white supremacy is not going down w/o a protracted fight beyond the ballot box. 

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1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

My hope is folks understand why it’s strategically wise to vote Trump & Repubs out of office

AND ALSO

that November will only mark the beginning of a more turbulent era in this country b/c white supremacy is not going down w/o a protracted fight beyond the ballot box. 

I would say it is not just strategically wise, but a moral imperative.  I agree with all of this, but question the timing.  None of this other shit matters if Step 1 isn't accomplished and this line of thinking runs the risk of alienating some of the support you need to get Step 1 accomplished.

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Just now, Biff Tannen said:

I would say it is not just strategically wise, but a moral imperative.  I agree with all of this, but question the timing.  None of this other shit matters if Step 1 isn't accomplished and this line of thinking runs the risk of alienating some of the support you need to get Step 1 accomplished.

That’s the thesis of the analysis as I understand it.  That we’re being forced to deal with our problems with inadequate tools so even if we’re successful, we’re still running on this never ending hamster wheel of status quo destruction and oppression.  

Once Step 1 is accomplished, a new fight must begin to break the wheel, otherwise around and around we go again.  Keeping a fight focused on policy in the background makes it easier to not forget what’s really important in the grand scheme of thing.

Yeah yeah, wouldn’t want to alienate people from the fight in front of us but in my view, giving people something more substantive to fight for can galvanize the effort to oust Trump. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

That’s the thesis of the analysis as I understand it.  That we’re being forced to deal with our problems with inadequate tools so even if we’re successful, we’re still running on this never ending hamster wheel of status quo destruction and oppression.  

Once Step 1 is accomplished, a new fight must begin to break the wheel, otherwise around and around we go again.  Keeping a fight focused on policy in the background makes it easier to not forget what’s really important in the grand scheme of thing.

Yeah yeah, wouldn’t want to alienate people from the fight in front of us but in my view, giving people something more substantive to fight for can galvanize the effort to oust Trump. 

I guess what I mean is, I could see laying this all out in a forceful manner if Bernie was the nominee (maybe even Liz), but with Biden, I think it could be another way of Dems shooting themselves in the dick if they focus too much on this before he's even elected.  If he wins, by all means, release the hounds.  

Edited by Biff Tannen

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On 7/22/2020 at 3:52 PM, MC Fresh Breath said:

 

 

I’m actually fine with a 10% cut to the military budget (probably- would want to see details) but to describe that as a small cut is disingenuous. If you cut any other organizations budget in the federal government you’d see words like draconian, drastic, huge, etc. 

Mere reductions in rate of growth have been described in appocolyiptic terms. 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I’m actually fine with a 10% cut to the military budget (probably- would want to see details) but to describe that as a small cut is disingenuous. If you cut any other organizations budget in the federal government you’d see words like draconian, drastic, huge, etc. 

Mere reductions in rate of growth have been described in appocolyiptic terms. 

I get where you're coming from, but the budget for this stuff never seems to decrease, only increase.  

Quote

At $740.5 billion, the military budget authorization that was passed by the House after the amendment was rejected will almost certainly be more than half of all 2021 discretionary federal spending and will dwarf amounts spent on functions like healthcare, housing, and education. If the House level is adopted after the Senate passes its version and any differences are resolved, 2021 will be the sixth year in a row that the Pentagon’s budget will be increased by Congress.

 

As to the Dems:

Quote

 

The Democrats who voted against reducing the Defense budget do not make up an obvious grouping. They span the ideological spectrum of House Democrats and include freshman members as well as leadership members who have been in office for decades. But by reviewing campaign contributions, a pattern emerges: Democrats who voted against the amendment tend to have received far more campaign funding from defense industry interests.  

On average, the Democrats who voted against the amendment have received $29,731 in contributions from the defense industry since January 2019, while Democrats voting for the amendment have received, on average, $8,800 from the industry during that period, according to a Sludge analysis of data from the Center for Responsive Politics. 

 

 

https://readsludge.com/2020/07/22/dems-voting-against-pentagon-cuts-got-3-4x-more-money-from-the-defense-industry/

 

I saw a line the other night about how it would be nice to have a true second party, much less a viable third party. Things like this increase that sentiment.  That's not even getting into having people like Colin Powell (holy fucking shit) speak at the DNC convention.

Edited by MC Fresh Breath

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