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hayden_horn

DACA, immigration reform whatever

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also: fuck ken paxton, he's a piece of trash.

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/05/01/texas-and-six-other-states-sue-end-daca/

Quote

Following through on a months-old promise, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxtonannounced Tuesday that Texas has filed a lawsuit to end the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, leading a seven-state coalition to fight an Obama-era immigration measure that protects hundreds of thousands of immigrants nationwide from deportation, including more than 100,000 in Texas.

Paxton first threatened in June 2017 to sue over the program if President Donald Trump’s administration had not ended it by September. After a federal court’s ruling blocked the Trump administration's efforts to end the program, Paxton wrote in January that he would consider filing suit if the program still stood in June.

“Our lawsuit is about the rule of law, not the wisdom of any particular immigration policy,” Paxton said in a press release. “Texas has argued for years that the federal executive branch lacks the power to unilaterally grant unlawfully present aliens lawful presence and work authorization. Left intact, DACA sets a dangerous precedent by giving the executive branch sweeping authority to ignore the laws enacted by Congress and change our nation’s immigration laws to suit a president’s own policy preferences.”

This is a developing story that will be updated soon. 

honestly, i thought this was a both sides sort of consensus. does he really want to deport 100k dreamers from texas? what does he think that's going to look like?

also, i'm interested in the ramifications of his calling out executive overreach for trump and his supporters. 

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I took a Fox News poll on Twitter recently that went like:

”Should we allow the caravans to cross the border into the United States?”

90% no

10% yes

 

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I don't think we should or will deport many of these "dreamers".  That being said there is a good argument that whatever we do should be the result of congressional action, rather than executive.

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1 minute ago, 77horn said:

I don't think we should or will deport many of these "dreamers".  That being said there is a good argument that whatever we do should be the result of congressional action, rather than executive.

The entire issue boils down to Congress abdicating their responsibility.  Shocking I know.  An issues that both sides (tm) agree on, but they cant functionally legislate.  Merica. 

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Just now, Anastasis said:

The entire issue boils down to Congress  Republicans abdicating their responsibility.  Shocking I know.  An issues that both sides (tm) agree on, but they cant functionally legislate.  Merica. 

FIFY

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42 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The entire issue boils down to Congress abdicating their responsibility.  Shocking I know.  An issues that both sides (tm) agree on, but they cant functionally legislate.  Merica. 

Agreed, but our constitutional process is built around a broad consensus to do something. And for quite a while now, it seems like both sides are infested with extremists who, rather than compromise and get something better, would rather get nothing just to blame the other side.  (See wildcat09's post)

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what is the end game?  How many can cross before it becomes a problem?  When do we realize the mass migration further destroys the migrants home country, creating a never ending problem.  Do we really want to be California and completely eliminate the middle class?  1% and handouts, million dollar home or homeless......i guess money, jobs, housing and health care grow on trees and taking as many as want to come will never have negative consequences...only positive.

DACA is the only leverage available for true immigration reform, and it needs to be done now.  It was unconstitutional then and now.  States like Texas take the huge burden with no way to recoup the expenditure.  Hospitals overflowing, more crime and crowded schools.  Like it or not, an undocumented elementary student is literally stealing tax dollars from the other American students.

Merit based immigration, immediate family only, and end the lotto.  Stop attacking our low skilled workers and lower economic tier.

Create a real guest worker program, but enforce compliance on both business and employee vigorously.

National Bio-Metric ID, and Guest ID

Public schools - Charge tuition for any undocumented students, and if need be any with undocumented parents

Prosecute Visa holdovers

The time is now, because we still have nuts who think open borders and making everyone who wants to be an American a citizen have no real consequences.

 

Very sad when Trump is the adult in the room when it comes to immigration reform.

Edited by ChickenSandwich

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As we have seen with the "caravan" in the news.....most illegal immigrants feel it is their god given right to break the law and cross the border.  They openly flaunt breaking our laws and dare our president to stop them.

We are not a county without laws and borders.

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52 minutes ago, 77horn said:

Agreed, but our constitutional process is built around a broad consensus to do something. And for quite a while now, it seems like both sides are infested with extremists who, rather than compromise and get something better, would rather get nothing just to blame the other side.  (See wildcat09's post)

The Democrats in Congress have no leverage to convince Paul Ryan to bring a bill to the floor. He is not doing so because he doesn't want to. It's that simple.

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What's REALLY interesting is that the DOJ is going to have to defend this suit and the nominal head of the DOJ has been back and forth attempting to abrogate DACA.  Which may be all that Paxton & Co are trying to do.

 

As a very practical matter, DACA is a good thing:  keep faultless unlawful immigrants on a path toward bettering themselves, and somewhat on a path to citizenship, closer anyway, than hiding in the shadows.

 

From a broad policy perspective, it's another stopgap that makes it easier or more conscionable for Congress to continue to abdicate (da fuq?) its responsibility.

Edited by TwiceHorn

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23 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The Democrats in Congress have no leverage to convince Paul Ryan to bring a bill to the floor. He is not doing so because he doesn't want to. It's that simple.

The democrats had plenty of opportunities to solve this problem.  They didn't want to.  It's that simple. 

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2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The democrats had plenty of opportunities to solve this problem.  They didn't want to.  It's that simple. 

You mean like shutting down the government over it since the GOP was holding DACA and CHIP hostage? 

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59 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The democrats had plenty of opportunities to solve this problem.  They didn't want to.  It's that simple. 

You know, like when congress declined to make a decision causing Obama to overstep his boundaries (and the constitution) and disregard them all together to creat DACA with zero approval from the house, senate or voting public. 

Them deciding to do nothing was that simple. 

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9 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

You know, like when congress declined to make a decision causing Obama to overstep his boundaries (and the constitution) and disregard them all together to creat DACA with zero approval from the house, senate or voting public. 

Them deciding to do nothing was that simple. 

Look at you getting all constitutional now after just advocating tuition for children of illegals.

Might wanna read the 14th Amendment again.

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3 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

The Democrats in Congress have no leverage to convince Paul Ryan to bring a bill to the floor. He is not doing so because he doesn't want to. It's that simple.

Perhaps not, but how does that explain why Pelosi and Reid never got one passed.  The real answer is that neither side is willing to budge.  This requires compromise and neither side is willing to do it.  

And putting it entirely on one side is partisan horseshit. 

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3 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

what is the end game?  How many can cross before it becomes a problem?  When do we realize the mass migration further destroys the migrants home country, creating a never ending problem.  Do we really want to be California and completely eliminate the middle class?  1% and handouts, million dollar home or homeless......i guess money, jobs, housing and health care grow on trees and taking as many as want to come will never have negative consequences...only positive.

DACA is the only leverage available for true immigration reform, and it needs to be done now.  It was unconstitutional then and now.  States like Texas take the huge burden with no way to recoup the expenditure.  Hospitals overflowing, more crime and crowded schools.  Like it or not, an undocumented elementary student is literally stealing tax dollars from the other American students.

Merit based immigration, immediate family only, and end the lotto.  Stop attacking our low skilled workers and lower economic tier.

Create a real guest worker program, but enforce compliance on both business and employee vigorously.

National Bio-Metric ID, and Guest ID

Public schools - Charge tuition for any undocumented students, and if need be any with undocumented parents

Prosecute Visa holdovers

The time is now, because we still have nuts who think open borders and making everyone who wants to be an American a citizen have no real consequences.

 

Very sad when Trump is the adult in the room when it comes to immigration reform.

What the fuck are you talking about? Illegal immigrants in Texas pay all the same taxes citizens do.

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14 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

What the fuck are you talking about? Illegal immigrants in Texas pay all the same taxes citizens do.

Tell me professor how an illegal alien getting paid cash pays the same income taxes that I do.  

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1 minute ago, Bill Brasky said:

Tell me professor how an illegal alien getting paid cash pays the same income taxes that I do.  

I think he's talking about on a state level, hence the mention of Texas.  But why does it matter? 

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6 minutes ago, Bill Brasky said:

Tell me professor how an illegal alien getting paid cash pays the same income taxes that I do.  

When did Texas enact a state income tax?

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11 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Look at you getting all constitutional now after just advocating tuition for children of illegals.

Might wanna read the 14th Amendment again.

Work on that reading comprehension. I didn’t say Anchor Babies.

  But while we are at it, it is time to amend the 14th. It’s archaic and not a part of civilized society in the rest of the developed world.  We shouldn’t reward breaking our laws. 

Edited by ChickenSandwich

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39 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Work on that reading comprehension. I didn’t say Anchor Babies.

Oh the irony of your reading comprehension jab..."Anchor babies" are citizens...the 14th covers non-citizens, including those here illegally. 

Check out the SCOTUS case Plyler v. Doe to find out why charging illegals tuition to attend public schools is unconstitutional.

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I didn’t say they were not citizens and wasn’t referencing them specifically. 

My point is if you actually stopped illegal immigration through whatever means and you secure the border (combined with a real biometric idea); opens up a ton of possibilities. 

If we had true transparency in regards to citizenship and immigration why not allow a Mexican citizen to pay tuition to send their kids to a public school and use the money to improve it for everyone. Give more access to Mexican and American citizens, schools, doctors and jobs they have they skills for or there is demand not being met for. They go as they please and pay appropriate taxes etc. If a family wants to move to Texas (and can do so on their own dime) to send their kids to public school why not create an avenue for them to do so  that benefits everyone?  

People are tired of paying for shadow sunken costs half the country refuses to acknowledge.   Legal immigration is a good thing when done the right way, but it is a farce and a disrespect to allow the law breakers to reap the benefits of those who do it the right way.  How do we discuss he true hard costs when we don’t even know the numbers to begin with?  The estimates were 11 million illegals in the country during the 2000s, now we acknowledge there is more than that in California alone (who has their own crisis of homeless Americans to deal with)

None of this is possible if we keep turning a blind eye to illegal immigration and can’t secure the border. Any program that doesn’t address those two items first is destined to fail. 

Unchecked immigration depletes recourses and creates a concrete ceiling on the lower class and eliminates the middle class. Schools, health care, law enforcement and social security all take the assault of the invasion. 

Edited by ChickenSandwich

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25 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

why not allow a Mexican citizen to pay tuition to send their kids to a public school

Because it's unconstitutional.  Did you look at the SCOTUS case I cited?  It was literally a case in point...Tyler tried to charge tuition to public schools for undocumented (aka illegal) kids.

I'm not unsympathetic to your ideas, it's just that under the Constitution, as it is today, it's not legal.  If you want to advocate for changing the Constitution, that's a different argument.

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12 hours ago, Bill Brasky said:

Tell me professor how an illegal alien getting paid cash pays the same income taxes that I do.  

They're no differently situated than any citizen that gets paid cash.

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12 hours ago, Bill Brasky said:

Tell me professor how an illegal alien getting paid cash pays the same income taxes that I do.  

It's the same as anyone who gets paid in cash.

Also, even if they don't get paid in cash, many undocumented workers get a taxpayer ID from the IRS so they can file a federal tax return.

Here's how.

 

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How much anti immigrant hate comes from the fact that a population that seems themselves as hardworking Christian conservative family values encounters a population that is actually hardworking Christian conservative family values. 

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5821593/DACA-recipient-19-escorted-Mexico-ICE-month-graduation-murdered-three-weeks-later.html

Quote

A teenage DACA recipient was about to graduate high school when ICE came after him.

Instead of walking with his graduating class, Manuel Antonio Cano-Pacheco, 19, was escorted to Mexico and just three weeks later his throat was slit.

Cano-Pacheco, who has a one-year-old son, was brought to the US without a visa when he was three and qualified for the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program which protected him from deportation.

However, after he was caught driving under the influence and convicted on a misdemeanor drug charge, he was stripped of his DACA status.

Rather than face formal deportation - which bans return to the US for a number of years - he was granted Voluntary Departure and taken to Mexico at the Laredo, Texas border on April 24, according to the Des Moines Register.

Three weeks later he was brutally murdered alone in a country he had never known.

He was out getting food with an acquaintance of his cousin in Zacatecas, Mexico, a region riddled with drug cartel and gang violence, when both were killed and Cano-Pacheco's throat slit.

The killers knew the acquaintance.  

His death was 'a symbol of gang supremacy in a country plagued by violent drug cartels,' according to the Register. 

In a statement released by ICE public affairs officer Shawn Neudauer, officers reveal that Cano-Pacheco was arrested at Polk County Jail in April 2017 following a misdemeanor drug charge. Around this time he was also convicted on a separate misdemeanor charge.  

'ICE issued Cano-Pacheco a notice to appear before a federal immigration judge. Based on his criminal convictions, his DACA status was terminated making him amenable to deportation. After posting an immigration bond, he was released from ICE custody pending an immigration court hearing,' the statement said.

'While awaiting his immigration hearing, Cano-Pacheco was convicted in Iowa of two more misdemeanors, including for driving under the influence. On April 10, 2018, Cano-Pacheco requested and was granted voluntary departure, "under safeguards," by a federal immigration judge. He returned to Mexico at the border in Laredo, Texas under ICE escort April 24,' the statement added.  

goddammit, a double header. minor drug charge, DACA revoked, deported to a country he can't remember, brutally murdered. good job all around, america!

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NUEVO LAREDO, MEXICO — Minutes after he was deported from the U.S., Francisco Narciso walked into a bus station to purchase a ticket home.

As he paid his fare, a stranger approached.

"Do you know how things work here in Nuevo Laredo?” the middle-aged man asked.

“Come with me. We can do things the hard way, or the easy way.”

Narciso refused. The man raised his shirt and Narciso saw a gun in his waistband.

"If you make a move, I will blow your head off right here, and no one will say a damn thing,” the stranger said. “We own this place."

Narciso was kidnapped, beaten and threatened with death. He was released five days later, only after his girlfriend in Ohio paid nearly $4,000 in multiple ransom payments. Over two recent days in Mexico, he gave his account of his ordeal to The Dallas Morning News and The Plain Dealer of Cleveland. Fearing for his safety, he asked that his location be kept secret.

His kidnapping is an increasingly common occurrence along the U.S.-Mexico border, particularly the Texas-Tamaulipas region, immigrants rights groups say. Narciso and other immigrants deported by Immigrations and Customs Enforcement have become easy prey for violent criminal groups desperate for money. The gangs hold the deportees until their relatives in the U.S. pay thousands of dollars for their release.

Between January and June 2017, the U.S. deported more than 31,000 Mexicans through the states of Tamaulipas and Coahuila, according to Mexico’s immigration service. The states are considered the most dangerous crossing points into Mexico, so perilous that the U.S. State Department regularly issues travel alerts and warnings for Americans. 

A bridge connects Laredo and Nuevo Laredo. Couriers for Mexican drug cartels are moving tens of billions of dollars in profits south across the border each year, a river of dirty money that has overwhelmed U.S. and Mexican customs agents.(Linda Davidson/The Washington Post)
A bridge connects Laredo and Nuevo Laredo. Couriers for Mexican drug cartels are moving tens of billions of dollars in profits south across the border each year, a river of dirty money that has overwhelmed U.S. and Mexican customs agents. (Linda Davidson/The Washington Post)
Carlos Spector, a longtime immigration lawyer in El Paso, criticizes the practice of sending deportees to the region. “This is willful blindness on the part of the United States and binational conspiracy on the part of both countries,” Spector said.

Mexican officials, including congressional leaders, say they have long expressed concerns to their U.S. counterparts about Tamaulipas and Coahuila, and have pressed the U.S. government to transport migrants to safer locations in the interior, ideally Mexico City.

“There is growing debate in Congress on the need to do more to protect them,” said Sen. Marco Antonio Olvera Acevedo of the state of Zacatecas, the source of millions of Mexican immigrants to the U.S. “We need to find other places less dangerous to deport them.”


Aurora Vega, head of communications for the Mexican immigration services, said the issue of migrants like Narciso falls to state security authorities in Tamaulipas. A spokesman for the security Cabinet of Tamaulipas Gov. Francisco Garcia Cabeza de Vaca said the issue is of top importance, but jurisdiction lies with federal authorities.

“This is a delicate issue, as it’s a very profitable business for criminal organizations,” said the governor's spokesman, Luis Alberto Rodriguez.

Numerous requests to ICE to discuss the policy have gone unanswered.

On the afternoon of June 14, Narciso, 30, left work and was headed home in Mentor, a town outside of Cleveland. As usual, he was careful behind the wheel. His girlfriend reminded him daily that any traffic infraction could spell deportation for him.

But on that day, Narciso’s vehicle was rear-ended. He ended up in a hospital with head and wrist injuries. Local police issued him a court date to show up with proof of his driver’s license. They warned him that ICE agents were likely to show up to ask for proof of legal status. A policeman took a picture of Narciso as he lay in bed.

When the police left, his girlfriend, who is a legal resident, begged Narciso to flee Ohio with her and their children and belongings. She feared that immigration agents would be waiting for him and her family would end up divided. Narciso ignored her pleas.

"I said I wanted to obey the law and would go to my hearing and explain everything," he said. "Maybe they would show mercy."

His only crime, he explained to her, was having crossed the border without papers in 2005 to install roofs. He had lived long enough in the U.S. that he felt American. He returned to Mexico for Christmas several times, crisscrossing back into this country after the holidays, each time paying $1,800 to $2,500 to smugglers..

When he and his girlfriend fell in love and decided to form a family, she asked him to make one promise. No more traveling to Mexico or surrounding states to work. In 2010, he had been deported from Pittsburgh after a car accident. Plus, now they had a daughter and were raising two other children from his girlfriend’s previous relationship.

Narciso quit his roofing work and said goodbye to Mexico. Since 2012, he worked at a wax factory, settling for a routine that took him from home to work, with occasional trips to the grocery store. Then his world crumbled.

As his girlfriend feared, ICE agents, dressed in street clothes, arrested Narciso outside the courtroom July 13.

“I was shattered into little pieces,” he said.


He was deported to Mexico nearly two weeks later. On his journey, he met another deportee also from Ohio, and together they pooled their resources after ICE agents dumped them on the bridge July 25. Francisco counted 43 other men and women deported with him.

They were greeted on the Mexican side by immigration authorities who told them they had two choices. If they had money they could make their way to one of four bus stations to buy a ticket home. Or they could be transported to a migrant shelter. Most headed for the bus stations.

After the gunman escorted Narciso out of the bus station, he looked for his fellow deportee, but he was nowhere to be found. Other customers waiting for their buses, taxi drivers and a parking attendant all simply looked the other way. So did the employee who just sold him the ticket.

Four SUVs pulled up and the gunman ordered Narciso inside. Narciso saw his companion and another deportee sitting scared inside the SUV.

They drove to a parking lot of a shopping center popular with Texans. Suddenly, three other vehicles pulled up near them. A man brandishing an assault rifle, the apparent leader of the group, got out of the car and took command.

Nuevo Laredo has four bus stations where deported immigrants say criminals prey on them and kidnap and hold them for ranson.(Alfredo Corchado/Staff)
Nuevo Laredo has four bus stations where deported immigrants say criminals prey on them and kidnap and hold them for ranson. (Alfredo Corchado/Staff)
"The man looked at everyone and asked: 'What is your name? Where are you from and you better not [expletive] lie to me. I have no tolerance for liars. I will kill you if you lie,'" he said.

One by one, the prisoners introduced themselves and the captor’s questions continued: Where were you born? Where did you live in the United States? What jobs did you do? Did you have family back in the U.S.?

"If you do everything we ask of you, you may live," the man said. "If not, we'll kill you and throw you out like garbage. Your choice. Understand?"

They were transferred to another vehicle and taken to a house on the outskirts of Nuevo Laredo.

“This is the Mexico I'm returning to?” Narciso recalled asking himself.

They were thrown into a small room. Seven men, including Narciso, were guarded by two armed men. He said the guards were always smoking marijuana and seemed high much of the time. They talked in grisly detail about the people they had murdered.

One of the guards asked about the wrist brace Narciso wore and seemed concerned that he was deported even though he had been injured in the car accident. The concern quickly faded. He was instructed to get money from his family.

Narciso contacted his girlfriend and put her on speaker phone. He told her to send $3,000 through MoneyGram to the kidnappers within 24 hours.

His handler told her if she didn’t comply, they would dissolve Narciso in acid or mutilate him beyond recognition. She borrowed the money from friends and relatives and sent it. New demands were made: She sent $200 more, then $400, another $200, for a total of $3,800.

One day, Narciso said, two of the men in the room were taken away. A day later, the captors showed the remaining men a newspaper that showed a pile of bodies found in the city and were told “this is what happens if you don't cooperate.” He glanced at the newspaper but was too terrified to determine if the prisoners he saw the day before were among the dead.

The prisoners were fed ground meat on buns. The guards bragged that they sometimes cooked the bodies of rival gang members or immigrant hostages and fed them to prisoners.

Narciso vomited. He had no way of knowing if he was eating human flesh, but said he could not take another bite. After that, he ate only bread and tortilla shells.

On the evening of July 27, a guard walked in and said, 'We decided you're not going to live anymore." Narciso protested, saying his girlfriend had paid a ransom.

“Yes, but no one gets out alive,” the man replied.

He asked when they would kill him and the man responded, "Any day now."

The next day, the guard told Narciso he could make one last call to his girlfriend, but she would need to send another $200, and this time to a different account, apparently as a way for the guard to make money on the side. Narciso’s girlfriend complied.

On July 29, Narciso awoke to a surprise.

The guard walked in and said his girlfriend came through with the $200. He said the gang was going to allow Narciso and the other man to live.

The two were driven to another house where five people were being held captive.

Narciso said the gang members took down their identifications, the names of family members and friends, and then photographed them, just in case they went to authorities. Then they took them to a bus station and bought them tickets to Monterrey, about two hours away.

Today, Narciso says he has another reason to be scared. Less than a week after his release, he learned that his eldest brother was murdered in Mexico. According to local newspapers, the man was shot 21 times by a hit man on a motorcycle. Narciso said he did not know if the man's death had anything to do with his captivity or the publicity following it. He had been estranged from his older brother for many years since their parents separated.

A brother consoles Francisco Narciso, who was kidnapped after being deported to Nuevo Laredo, Mexico. Another brother was murdered recently. (Alfredo Corchado/Staff)
A brother consoles Francisco Narciso, who was kidnapped after being deported to Nuevo Laredo, Mexico. Another brother was murdered recently.  (Alfredo Corchado/Staff)
Since his ordeal, he has remained indoors. The one time he left the house, he walked only a few feet before he saw a stranger and retreated inside in fear.

He’s so afraid, he said, he can’t even think about trying to sneak back into the U.S. through Nuevo Laredo or another border town.

“Maybe that’s what the U.S. government really wants,” he said.

He paused and wiped away tears as members of his family consoled him.

“But my home isn’t here anymore,” he said. “I don’t know that I have a country anymore. My life, my future is with my family, and they’re back in the United States.”

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/mexico/2017/08/27/willful-blindness-deportees-becoming-easy-prey-gangs-along-us-mexico-border

now this guy isn't a DACA, but this is the reality we face when we deport folks to mexico. we KNOW that they are going into a wild west third world hell, and we don't care. sad.

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8 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/mexico/2017/08/27/willful-blindness-deportees-becoming-easy-prey-gangs-along-us-mexico-border

now this guy isn't a DACA, but this is the reality we face when we deport folks to mexico. we KNOW that they are going into a wild west third world hell, and we don't care. sad.

It is sad.  It's terrible.  But I'm not sure what our country is supposed to do?  Aside from asylum, how can our immigration policy be dictated by shitty conditions in neighboring countries?

 

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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

It is sad.  It's terrible.  But I'm not sure what our country is supposed to do?  Aside from asylum, how can our immigration policy be dictated by shitty conditions in neighboring countries?

 

we allow refugee status. 

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/refugees-asylum/refugees

Quote

Under United States law, a refugee is someone who:

Is located outside of the United States
Is of special humanitarian concern to the United States
Demonstrates that they were persecuted or fear persecution due to race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or membership in a particular social group
Is not firmly resettled in another country
Is admissible to the United States

 

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2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I mentioned asylum.  And these two didn't qualify.  I suppose you could argue for a retroactive asylum or that asylum should be expanded because Mexico is a fucking murderous dump. I don't know.

i just know that it feels WRONG. and that it feels very anti-american. i don't know that i have a great answer either. 

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57 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It is sad.  It's terrible.  But I'm not sure what our country is supposed to do?  Aside from asylum, how can our immigration policy be dictated by shitty conditions in neighboring countries?

 

We could follow the same immigration policy we did for the first century of our existence and which led to the United States being the greatest country in the world.

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Or dude could have followed our laws and not got booted? Sorry your native shithole killed you?  

Remind me again how receptive the Mexicans are to the immigrants from the shithole countries south of them again.  

For everyone who bitches about how far the tax dollar falls short, there’s a really fucking easy way to stretch it. And give me a break about the dudes mowing lawns paying taxes gtfo. 

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Or dude could have followed our laws and not got booted? Sorry your native shithole killed you?  

Remind me again how receptive the Mexicans are to the immigrants from the shithole countries south of them again.  

For everyone who bitches about how far the tax dollar falls short, there’s a really fucking easy way to stretch it. And give me a break about the dudes mowing lawns paying taxes gtfo. 

 

“Your 3-year-old spic ass didn’t follow our laws. Rot in hell motherfucker.”

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14 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Or dude could have followed our laws and not got booted? Sorry your native shithole killed you?  

Remind me again how receptive the Mexicans are to the immigrants from the shithole countries south of them again.  

For everyone who bitches about how far the tax dollar falls short, there’s a really fucking easy way to stretch it. And give me a break about the dudes mowing lawns paying taxes gtfo. 

You mad, bro.

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4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You mad, bro.

Considering how I’ve been treated in that cesspool over the years, I find it a bit frustrating. Being held in a room with a bunch of idiots wielding machine guns because my work liaison wasn’t there to smooth things while passing customs. Yeah, fuck them a little bit. Wonder what would have happened had I passed illegally. God forbid you get caught with a rogue shotgun shell in your truck crossing the border.  Thanks for the fajitas, music, and women tho. 

In all seriousness, you think there’s a thread on some Mexican soccer board feeling sorry for the American that comes over, gets busted for DWI/drugs, and gets thrown in their clink. No.  Sorry your country has become a shithole.

Why don’t you stay and fix it instead of illegally coming and taxing mine?  

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25 minutes ago, DanRydell said:

 

“Your 3-year-old spic ass didn’t follow our laws. Rot in hell motherfucker.”

3 yo with a dui and drug charges?  Huh. 

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Just now, fattyflattie said:

Considering how I’ve been treated in that cesspool over the years, I find it a bit frustrating. Being held in a room with a bunch of idiots wielding machine guns because my work liaison wasn’t there to smooth things while passing customs. Yeah, fuck them a little bit. Wonder what would have happened had I passed illegally. God forbid you get caught with a rogue shotgun shell in your truck crossing the border.  Thanks for the fajitas, music, and women tho. 

In all seriousness, you think there’s a thread on some Mexican soccer board feeling sorry for the American that comes over, gets busted for DWI/drugs, and gets thrown in their clink. No.  Sorry your country has become a shithole.

Why don’t you stay and fix it instead of illegally coming and taxing mine?  

Americans sure do love that shithole.

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I don't know if there's another thread for this, but can someone please set me straight on the facts of this awful family border separation story?   From everything I've read, the actual facts seem to be:

-some families were separated at the border in 2013 or 2014.  There was some suggestion in the Obama administration of doing so to deter future illegal immigration, but it didn't become a large scale thing.  It is now being portrayed by former Obama officials as an exception that happened in a small number of cases. 

-separating families increased under Trump and then exploded under the Sessions zero tolerance immigration policy.   Existing procedures are being followed, but separation of families is not required by statute, and is purely a result of a new Trump/Sessions policy having a practical consequence within the existing system.   And there is some suggestion from Trump administration officials that this is being done to deter future illegal immigration. 

-Congress could change the law, but Trump/Sessions could also not separate families if they wanted. 

-some Ds circulated an image of kids behind bars, mistakenly suggesting they were separated from their families by Trump, but the pic was actually from 2014.   But they were kids who arrived without families at the border, so they are not part of the family separation story at all.  Red herring either way. 

Did I get any of that wrong?  I find this story incredibly disturbing, regardless of who started it.  If it was Obama, I regret not being aware of it before now, and shame on him.  But either way, it should stop. 

 

 

Edited by Mojo Hand

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On 5/2/2018 at 7:11 AM, ChickenSandwich said:

I didn’t say they were not citizens and wasn’t referencing them specifically. 

My point is if you actually stopped illegal immigration through whatever means and you secure the border (combined with a real biometric idea); opens up a ton of possibilities. 

If we had true transparency in regards to citizenship and immigration why not allow a Mexican citizen to pay tuition to send their kids to a public school and use the money to improve it for everyone. Give more access to Mexican and American citizens, schools, doctors and jobs they have they skills for or there is demand not being met for. They go as they please and pay appropriate taxes etc. If a family wants to move to Texas (and can do so on their own dime) to send their kids to public school why not create an avenue for them to do so  that benefits everyone?  

People are tired of paying for shadow sunken costs half the country refuses to acknowledge.   Legal immigration is a good thing when done the right way, but it is a farce and a disrespect to allow the law breakers to reap the benefits of those who do it the right way.  How do we discuss he true hard costs when we don’t even know the numbers to begin with?  The estimates were 11 million illegals in the country during the 2000s, now we acknowledge there is more than that in California alone (who has their own crisis of homeless Americans to deal with)

None of this is possible if we keep turning a blind eye to illegal immigration and can’t secure the border. Any program that doesn’t address those two items first is destined to fail. 

Unchecked immigration depletes recourses and creates a concrete ceiling on the lower class and eliminates the middle class. Schools, health care, law enforcement and social security all take the assault of the invasion. 

lol at this guy. blaming the massive income/wealth gap on immigrants.  fucking tool

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10 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

I don't know if there's another thread for this, but can someone please set me straight on the facts of this awful family border separation story?   From everything I've read, the actual facts seem to be:

-some families were separated at the border in 2013 or 2014.  There was some suggestion in the Obama administration of doing so to deter future illegal immigration, but it didn't become a large scale thing.  It is now being portrayed by former Obama officials as an exception that happened in a small number of cases. 

-separating families increased under Trump and then exploded under the Sessions zero tolerance immigration policy.   Existing procedures are being followed, but separation of families is not required by statute, and is purely a result of a new Trump/Sessions policy having a practical consequence within the existing system.   And there is some suggestion from Trump administration officials that this is being done to deter future illegal immigration. 

-Congress could change the law, but Trump/Sessions could also not separate families if they wanted. 

-some Ds circulated an image of kids behind bars, mistakenly suggesting they were separated from their families by Trump, but the pic was actually from 2014.   But they were kids who arrived without families at the border, so they are not part of the family separation story at all.  Red herring either way. 

Did I get any of that wrong?  I find this story incredibly disturbing, regardless of who started it.  If it was Obama, I regret not being aware of it before now, and shame on him.  But either way, it should stop. 

 

 

I understand there are legitimate reasons to split a family during initial processing. There needs to be a determination that the child is safe and that they are really a family. 

However, this is the first time that family separation for the purpose of deterrence is used. The UN has spoke out against this practice. There was a time when the UN spoke out against other countries.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/05/un-says-us-must-stop-separating-migrant-children-from-parents

Edited by GW Hayduke

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1 hour ago, Foosters said:

lol at this guy. blaming the massive income/wealth gap on immigrants.  fucking tool

adorable...all illegals are free to the tax payer, who needs a middle class?  Surely the wage gap decreased during Barry right?  Pathetic

California - the Mecca of unchecked illegal immigration spends 1.3 billion over two years in welfare payments for illegal immigrants

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/03/la-made-1-3b-in-illegal-immigrant-welfare-payouts-in-just-2-years.html

More Americans leave California each year compared to any other state

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sd-california-losing-low-income-people-gaining-wealthy-people-per-report-20180221-htmlstory.html

California is also in the middle of a homeless crisis......

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-housing-crisis-20180330-story.html

Unchecked illegal immigration has huge consequences half of the people fail to even acknowledge.  If you can't have an honest conversation and include all factors without resorting to emotional antidotes and name calling, then you get where we are now.

California's sanctuary state has demolished their middle class, but the 1% feel altruistic when they are able to create more new "Americans" through open borders while not giving two shits about the middle class.

 

So do you still believe there are no real costs, or is it just completely irresponsible government from the Democrats in California eliminating the middle class and increasing the homeless population exponentially?

But lets pretend instead.

Edited by ChickenSandwich

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1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

adorable...all illegals are free to the tax payer, who needs a middle class?  Surely the wage gap decreased during Barry right?  Pathetic

California - the Mecca of unchecked illegal immigration spends 1.3 billion over two years in welfare payments for illegal immigrants

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/08/03/la-made-1-3b-in-illegal-immigrant-welfare-payouts-in-just-2-years.html

More Americans leave California each year compared to any other state

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/the-conversation/sd-california-losing-low-income-people-gaining-wealthy-people-per-report-20180221-htmlstory.html

California is also in the middle of a homeless crisis......

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-housing-crisis-20180330-story.html

Unchecked illegal immigration has huge consequences half of the people fail to even acknowledge.  If you can't have an honest conversation and include all factors without resorting to emotional antidotes and name calling, then you get where we are now.

California's sanctuary state has demolished their middle class, but the 1% feel altruistic when they are able to create more new "Americans" through open borders while not giving two shits about the middle class.

 

So do you still believe there are no real costs, or is it just completely irresponsible government from the Democrats in California eliminating the middle class and increasing the homeless population exponentially?

But lets pretend instead.

You have major projection issues, Mr. Chicken Sandwich. CA is an incredibly expensive state with a high COL. Housing costs are astronomical. Over half the homeless are economically homeless. 900 sqft homes sell for 800k. These are all facts. You too have listed some facts. What you have failed to do, is provide causation. 

Also ,lol at your foxnews link.  Those payments to "illegal immigrants" includes payments to US citizens... 

 

Troll

Edited by Foosters

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