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The petty, wonderful and delightfully wierd rise of the Horns Down


GreenspointTexas

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2 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

I am with you. The 1970 title is not the same as the others. However, I am pretty sure they were thinking "damn that sucked, I am sure glad that was just a post-season exhibition" because it was 1970 and lots of people still felt that way about bowl games. Hell when I was a kid in the 1980s some old timers will still grumbling about how Bowl Games were rewards and shouldn't count as real games.

In any case we thought we won the national title in 1970, and did by the rules at the time, so it remains. It was not something we went back and claimed later. And to me the question of whether or not you won the title back in some ancient year is pretty dependent on if the people at the time thought they had just won the national title, which people in 1970 thought was Texas.

 

59 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

By today’s standards our 1970 title comes with an *.

But up until that time several other schools had similar seasons and were recognized as national champs before losing their bowl exhibition games. 

It don’t make a shit, and it ain’t coming off the wall.

 

Exactly.  Going back and disregarding the '70 championship would be no different than going back and retroactively claiming NCs because come computer algorithm said so.  You are looking at the past through a prism of our current world.  It's just DUMB.

Which is to say that I have no problem believing that SEC schools and Nebraska fans would engage in that sort of thinking.

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As I've said in other threads, I've definitely "horns down"'d when we were actually playing you guys, just like I used to thumbs down Aggy.  I can't imagine doing it any other time of the year, or doing something Aggy like WVU's schedule deal, or ever acting like Texas is a rival.

It's just a taunt at the opponent you're playing at the time, and the fan's job is to taunt, create hostility towards the opponent, and make it generally difficult for them to execute.

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1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

As I've said in other threads, I've definitely "horns down"'d when we were actually playing you guys, just like I used to thumbs down Aggy.  I can't imagine doing it any other time of the year, or doing something Aggy like WVU's schedule deal, or ever acting like Texas is a rival.

It's just a taunt at the opponent you're playing at the time, and the fan's job is to taunt, create hostility towards the opponent, and make it generally difficult for them to execute.

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1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

As I've said in other threads, I've definitely "horns down"'d when we were actually playing you guys, just like I used to thumbs down Aggy.  I can't imagine doing it any other time of the year, or doing something Aggy like WVU's schedule deal, or ever acting like Texas is a rival.

It's just a taunt at the opponent you're playing at the time, and the fan's job is to taunt, create hostility towards the opponent, and make it generally difficult for them to execute.

That's cool, as long as you understand that to many Texas fans, doing the horns-down is the same thing as throwing the middle finger.  And you should expect the same kind of response you'd get if you flipped someone off.  It could be angry or even violent, and you should understand you brought that on yourself.

It's all cool with me, I say "ou sucks" all the time when we're playing those guys, and I chant it in the appropriate time of our fight song when we're playing them, and I thoroughly expect them to take offense at it.  That's what it's intended to do.  I will accept the consequences of my actions.

And of course I'd never say "ou sucks" while playing ISU or Kansas or Baylor.  It's always been weird to me that sooners do the horns-down even when they're playing other teams.  But, sooners are weird and stupid, so it's not really all that surprising.

 

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29 minutes ago, utee94 said:

That's cool, as long as you understand that to many Texas fans, doing the horns-down is the same thing as throwing the middle finger.  And you should expect the same kind of response you'd get if you flipped someone off.  It could be angry or even violent, and you should understand you brought that on yourself.

It's all cool with me, I say "ou sucks" all the time when we're playing those guys, and I chant it in the appropriate time of our fight song when we're playing them, and I thoroughly expect them to take offense at it.  That's what it's intended to do.  I will accept the consequences of my actions.

And of course I'd never say "ou sucks" while playing ISU or Kansas or Baylor.  It's always been weird to me that sooners do the horns-down even when they're playing other teams.  But, sooners are weird and stupid, so it's not really all that surprising.

 

I've never done it to a Texas fan.  Just generally directed at the field of play.  I'd understand someone getting upset if I ran up in their face and made it personal, or gestured specifically at them, and I was probably 21 and hammered the last time I ever yelled at an opposing fan (Iowa game 2007 maybe).  But getting angry or violent over the gesture in general (like doing it into the camera or directed at the field of play) seems a bit unhinged.

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So you think the fans should do it to taunt the team and create hostility, but if someone gets hostile about it then it's unhinged.

Okey dokey.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's cute when teams like Iowa State try to join in. Doesn't make me angry, just makes me realize that nobody has any idea what to say in response to Iowa State because their football program doesn't matter. I'm just saying your logic is lacking, uh, logic.

I get mad when Sooners do it, but that's because the Oklahoma Sooners are the one thing I allow myself to be completely irrationally unhinged about. I hate them all and hope they suffer eternally.

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Just now, Huckleberry said:

So you think the fans should do it to taunt the team and create hostility, but if someone gets hostile about it then it's unhinged.

Okey dokey.

Exactly.  Dipshits think they can be assholes and cry like bitches when it gets thrown back at them.

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19 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

So you think the fans should do it to taunt the team and create hostility, but if someone gets hostile about it then it's unhinged.

Okey dokey.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's cute when teams like Iowa State try to join in. Doesn't make me angry, just makes me realize that nobody has any idea what to say in response to Iowa State because their football program doesn't matter. I'm just saying your logic is lacking, uh, logic.

I get mad when Sooners do it, but that's because the Oklahoma Sooners are the one thing I allow myself to be completely irrationally unhinged about. I hate them all and hope they suffer eternally.

Uhh, yeah.  That's exactly how it works.  Fans try and create a hostile environment for the opposing team.  That is a different thing from trying to get personal with and provoke a visiting fan.  If I'm at a game in Austin (I have been) and Texas fans are getting into it and getting after the ISU team, I'd expect and not be offended because that's what you do as a fan.  Obviously things like throwing objects into the field of the play, or coming out of the stands are different because there's an actual threat to someone's safety.

If someone thinks that someone pointing their pointer finger and pinky at the ground is some kind of existential threat, and worthy of physical violence, they are absolutely unhinged.  I think it's amusing how incapable of being rational about this some of you are, but it's that kind of blind passion that makes college football the best sport on the planet.

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2 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Uhh, yeah.  That's exactly how it works.  Fans try and create a hostile environment for the opposing team.  That is a different thing from trying to get personal with and provoke a visiting fan.  If I'm at a game in Austin (I have been) and Texas fans are getting into it and getting after the ISU team, I'd expect and not be offended because that's what you do as a fan.  Obviously things like throwing objects into the field of the play, or coming out of the stands are different because there's an actual threat to someone's safety.

If someone thinks that someone pointing their pointer finger and pinky at the ground is some kind of existential threat, and worthy of physical violence, they are absolutely unhinged.  I think it's amusing how incapable of being rational about this some of you are, but it's that kind of blind passion that makes college football the best sport on the planet.

Like I said, many Longhorn fans think of it exactly the same as the middle finger.  You should expect the same response.  If someone gives you the finger, how do you react?

Gestures have exactly the amount of meaning and import that we allow them to have.  The middle finger is an insult and a taunt because when it is gestured by one person toward another individual or group, it is intended to be an insult and a taunt.  Horns-down is no different. I don't condone physical violence when someone throws the horns-down any more than I condone physical violence when someone gives the middle finger.  But they are identical in intent and reception to many Longhorn fans.  When you, as an opposing fan, give the horns-down, you're doing it with the sole purpose of insulting Longhorns.  Why on earth would you be surprised or upset when you get exactly the response you intended to provoke?

And if you see an entire section of fans at a football game throwing the middle finger toward your team or one of your players or one of your fans, how would you react to that?  What kind of people do you assume those middle-finger-throwers to be?

Anyway, I'm just giving you perspective.  Do what you like.  Like I said, I happily chant "ou sucks" when we're playing the sooners.  And if a sooner fan hears me and gets upset, well it's absolutely something I should expect.  

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Just now, Scholz said:

You're giving the middle finger to our fanbase, guy.  That's how it's given and that's how it's taken.  Don't act dumb.

It's clear this is how you (as a fanbase) respond, and it's why people keep doing it.  It clearly gets a very visceral reaction.

But acting dumb is getting this riled up over it.  I expect opposing fans to be nasty towards our team, and don't take it as a personal attack on the fanbase.  I have nothing against Texas fans at all - in fact I generally like your fanbase (why else would I post here?) - but when we play Texas, if I'm at the game, I'm going to be making as much noise in the direction of the field as I can.  It ain't personal, I just want my school to win every game - as I assume you do.

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7 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Like I said, many Longhorn fans think of it exactly the same as the middle finger.  You should expect the same response.  If someone gives you the finger, how do you react?

Gestures have exactly the amount of meaning and import that we allow them to have.  The middle finger is an insult and a taunt because when it is gestured by one person toward another individual or group, it is intended to be an insult and a taunt.  Horns-down is no different. I don't condone physical violence when someone throws the horns-down any more than I condone physical violence when someone gives the middle finger.  But they are identical in intent and reception to many Longhorn fans.  When you, as an opposing fan, give the horns-down, you're doing it with the sole purpose of insulting Longhorns.  Why on earth would you be surprised or upset when you get exactly the response you intended to provoke?

And if you see an entire section of fans at a football game throwing the middle finger toward your team or one of your players or one of your fans, how would you react to that?  What kind of people do you assume those middle-finger-throwers to be?

Anyway, I'm just giving you perspective.  Do what you like.  Like I said, I happily chant "ou sucks" when we're playing the sooners.  And if a sooner fan hears me and gets upset, well it's absolutely something I should expect.  

If someone gives me the middle finger, I'd throw it back.

If someone gives the ISU squad the middle finger, I couldn't care less.

If I go up to a Texas fan, and throw the Horns Down, I'd expect an angry response.  That's a direct, personal confrontation.

If I'm doing it towards the field of play, or a TV camera, or any other non-specifically directed situation, I wouldn't expect any response.  I expect fans to insult the opposing team, period.  As long as they aren't throwing shit, or on the field of play, I don't really care that much. 

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Just now, Al_4_ISU said:

It's clear this is how you (as a fanbase) respond, and it's why people keep doing it.  It clearly gets a very visceral reaction.

But acting dumb is getting this riled up over it. 

So you want to be able to act like an asshole with impunity and have zero repurcussions for it.  And if you know that's how it's taken, then don't try to act like that's not what you're doing.  Sorry that's dumb.

I'm giving you and your family the bird right now and telling you to fuck off.  Because you're wearing ISU gear.  And I want to create a bad atmosphere for your team.  But only in my head so it's all good.

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5 minutes ago, Scholz said:

So you want to be able to act like an asshole with impunity and have zero repurcussions for it.  And if you know that's how it's taken, then don't try to act like that's not what you're doing.  Sorry that's dumb.

I'm giving you and your family the bird right now and telling you to fuck off.  Because you're wearing ISU gear.  And I want to create a bad atmosphere for your team.  But only in my head so it's all good.

I think this is generally a part of viewing spectator sports, within reason.  I expect pretty much anyone to be able to do this, within reason.  I assume that when ISU goes on the road, the opposing fans will act like assholes towards the team, during the game.  As long as it isn't physical assault, or some kind of intensely personal attack that crosses the line of what a reasonable personal would find insanely offensive, I don't think there should be repercussions.

I don't think there should be "repercussions" for flipping a hand signal, other than, well, what we're doing right now where you tell me I'm an idiot for being surprised that people would lose their shit over a fucking hand signal, and I disagree.

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24 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Uhh, yeah.  That's exactly how it works.  Fans try and create a hostile environment for the opposing team.  That is a different thing from trying to get personal with and provoke a visiting fan.  If I'm at a game in Austin (I have been) and Texas fans are getting into it and getting after the ISU team, I'd expect and not be offended because that's what you do as a fan.  Obviously things like throwing objects into the field of the play, or coming out of the stands are different because there's an actual threat to someone's safety.

If someone thinks that someone pointing their pointer finger and pinky at the ground is some kind of existential threat, and worthy of physical violence, they are absolutely unhinged.  I think it's amusing how incapable of being rational about this some of you are, but it's that kind of blind passion that makes college football the best sport on the planet.

Again, you said you do it to create a hostile environment. Then you said someone responding to the hostile environment by being hostile "is unhinged."

Or is your argument that you're only making it hostile for the huge athletes in full football gear? You're taunting them in a hostile manner? That sounds like being a good fan to you?

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7 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Again, you said you do it to create a hostile environment. Then you said someone responding to the hostile environment by being hostile "is unhinged."

Or is your argument that you're only making it hostile for the huge athletes in full football gear? You're taunting them in a hostile manner? That sounds like being a good fan to you?

This is pretty clearly the argument being made.  I think it should apply to all spectator sports, within general reason.  That's part of the deal, or compact.  No shit all of these guys on the field could murder any of us schmucks in the stands with one hand tied behind their back.  It's like you've never been to a game, or something.  You yell at the field, make noise, and try to distract the opponent.  As long as you don't get physical, or cross some line of extreme and objective offensive (of which this is clearly not), there shouldn't be repercussions.

If we were discussing literally anything other than this particular gesture that you have an extremely emotional response to, I'd think you (and most fans) would agree that this is normal, acceptable, and in the realm of expected behavior at a sporting event.

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I've been to plenty of games, and making noise and being really loud at appropriate times does have an effect on the game. "Creating a hostile environment" or whatever you believe you're doing has zero effect on 99.9% of the opposing players.

Again, I don't have an emotional response to the horns down from anyone but Sooners. I didn't care about the West Virginia guys doing it other than laughing at them for getting penalized. I suppose I have quite vocally stated that they absolutely deserved the penalty, but that's because we were penalized several years ago for holstering guns in Lubbock. And that wasn't even done at anyone in particular, whether on the field or in the stands. As long as it's officiated the same both ways I don't care whether it is a penalty or it isn't.

Anyway, back to the point, flashing a hand gesture at a player to make them angry is some really stupid behavior. Being loud is not the same thing as your apparent belief that it's your job to scare, intimidate, and anger the opposing team. That's just foolish and to be quite honest also completely pointless because it doesn't work. You don't intimidate any of the players, man. Sorry to break it to you, but they don't give a shit about you. Your job is to be loud when it's time to be loud and go nuts cheering for your team. Beyond volume you don't have an impact on the game.

edited to add - Don't take this to mean that I am saying nobody gets mad about it. Plenty of Texas fans get mad about it, and like others here are telling you, if someone gets pissed about it then that's on you. If I am in College Station and yell toward the field that "HEY A&M YOU GUYS JUST COLLAPSED LIKE A BONFIRE!" then I should expect the ass-kicking that I'm about to receive. And it doesn't have to be nearly that bad. If I, as you claim to be, am yelling or doing things that I am doing specifically to create a hostile environment and make people angry, then when emotional fans of that team get pissed and whip my ass then that's on me.

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13 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I think this is generally a part of viewing spectator sports, within reason.

Well now we’re getting somewhere. At least you’re finally admitting you act like an asshole. I have no problem with that. I do it too. What I take offense at is dishonesty and disingenuous arguments. Don’t act like it’s innocent. Own it.

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1 minute ago, Scholz said:

Well now we’re getting somewhere. At least you’re finally admitting you act like an asshole. I have no problem with that. I do it too. What I take offense at is dishonesty and disingenuous arguments. Don’t act like it’s innocent. Own it.

It's not innocent.  I definitely act like an asshole at games - it's the one setting I think you can acceptably do that.  But I don't think anyone should be subject to any kind of repercussion for it, as long as it isn't targeted at fellow fans or crosses the lines I laid out.

I expect that other fans will also act like assholes, so long as they aren't picking on other people in the stands, or actually trying to confront players.

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1 minute ago, Braff Zacklin said:

If someone flashing the "horns down" makes them an asshole, then taking it personally enough to whine about it incessantly on a message board makes you some kind of uber pussy.

Get thicker skin and move on.

That’s cool. I’m giving your Mom the middle finger so all good.

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5 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I've been to plenty of games, and making noise and being really loud at appropriate times does have an effect on the game. "Creating a hostile environment" or whatever you believe you're doing has zero effect on 99.9% of the opposing players.

Again, I don't have an emotional response to the horns down from anyone but Sooners. I didn't care about the West Virginia guys doing it other than laughing at them for getting penalized. I suppose I have quite vocally stated that they absolutely deserved the penalty, but that's because we were penalized several years ago for holstering guns in Lubbock. And that wasn't even done at anyone in particular, whether on the field or in the stands. As long as it's officiated the same both ways I don't care whether it is a penalty or it isn't.

Anyway, back to the point, flashing a hand gesture at a player to make them angry is some really stupid behavior. Being loud is not the same thing as your apparent belief that it's your job to scare, intimidate, and anger the opposing team. That's just foolish and to be quite honest also completely pointless because it doesn't work. You don't intimidate any of the players, man. Sorry to break it to you, but they don't give a shit about you. Your job is to be loud when it's time to be loud and go nuts cheering for your team. Beyond volume you don't have an impact on the game.

I don't really disagree with any of this.  But I still think it's part of what you do as a fan, and have zero issue with that kind of thing directed at my squad.  I realize it's far more common for your squad to be on the receiving end than mine for obvious reasons.

I don't think some player is going to see me in the damn upper deck yelling and get all butt hurt and unfocused over it.  It's still fun to do, and contributes in a small way to the overall loudness, or whatever.

I also would expect someone to be pissed if I got up in their face and did it to them (which I've never done, or wouldn't), but I think the idea of someone observing it from a distance, clearly not directed at them, and getting confrontational about it is even stupider than any of the stupid behavior I've previously condoned in this thread.

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1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Uhh, yeah.  That's exactly how it works.  Fans try and create a hostile environment for the opposing team.  That is a different thing from trying to get personal with and provoke a visiting fan.  If I'm at a game in Austin (I have been) and Texas fans are getting into it and getting after the ISU team, I'd expect and not be offended because that's what you do as a fan.  Obviously things like throwing objects into the field of the play, or coming out of the stands are different because there's an actual threat to someone's safety.

If someone thinks that someone pointing their pointer finger and pinky at the ground is some kind of existential threat, and worthy of physical violence, they are absolutely unhinged.  I think it's amusing how incapable of being rational about this some of you are, but it's that kind of blind passion that makes college football the best sport on the planet.

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7 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

It's clear this is how you (as a fanbase) respond, and it's why people keep doing it.  It clearly gets a very visceral reaction.

But acting dumb is getting this riled up over it.  I expect opposing fans to be nasty towards our team, and don't take it as a personal attack on the fanbase.  I have nothing against Texas fans at all - in fact I generally like your fanbase (why else would I post here?) - but when we play Texas, if I'm at the game, I'm going to be making as much noise in the direction of the field as I can.  It ain't personal, I just want my school to win every game - as I assume you do.

Dude, let’s get one thing straight. All of this is personal. You have thousands of posts on opposing fan boards because you passionately give a shit about your team, the program, and the outcomes. Same for us. Just don’t introduce this bullshit where “it’s not that big of a deal” type of thinking is used to offset or dim your position. This is a major hobby for those of us here, you included. It’s borderline religious. It’s fucking personal. 

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14 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Dude, let’s get one thing straight. All of this is personal. You have thousands of posts on opposing fan boards because you passionately give a shit about your team, the program, and the outcomes. Same for us. Just don’t introduce this bullshit where “it’s not that big of a deal” type of thinking is used to offset or dim your position. This is a major hobby for those of us here, you included. It’s borderline religious. It’s fucking personal. 

What isn't personal is how I feel about Texas.  I want to beat you guys the way I want to beat OU, or TCU.  There are programs I passionately hate; Texas isn't one.  Flashing the horns down is a team specific taunt in my mind, not an expression of deep seated loathing.  I only root against Texas if it's good for my squad.  I get no joy from you losing random games.  

This is what me taking it personal looks like:

I want Nebraska to lose every fucking game they ever play for the rest of time unless for some odd reason ISU stands to benefit from their win.  That's personal.  Not sticking two fingers at the ground in the heat of battle.

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JFC, wtf is going on with this thread?  The whining is midseason form.  So that's a plus, I guess. 

It's a Texas site.  Some people take all this way more personally compared to others.   Why the fuck are veterans of this site acting like they're going to win an argument about horns down being all good, on this site, of all places?  Fucking A. 

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19 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Whining about stupid crap is actually what the offseason is all about. Silly season.

True.  But the intensity is turned up.  That can be good.  But the last couple pages not so much.  

We just need Rocco back and it’s peak shitshow.  

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1 hour ago, ChiTownDoc said:

True.  But the intensity is turned up.  That can be good.  But the last couple pages not so much.  

We just need Rocco back and it’s peak shitshow.  

Well it's a thread entirely dedicated to celebrating, or censuring, the horns-down gesture.  So it was bound to be peurile and stupid from the beginning.

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10 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

What isn't personal is how I feel about Texas.  I want to beat you guys the way I want to beat OU, or TCU.  There are programs I passionately hate; Texas isn't one.  Flashing the horns down is a team specific taunt in my mind, not an expression of deep seated loathing.  I only root against Texas if it's good for my squad.  I get no joy from you losing random games.  

This is what me taking it personal looks like:

I want Nebraska to lose every fucking game they ever play for the rest of time unless for some odd reason ISU stands to benefit from their win.  That's personal.  Not sticking two fingers at the ground in the heat of battle.

What a fucking pussy.  Way to walk the line.  "only root against Texas if it's good for my squad"  Fuck you.  This horns down thing is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've heard from college football in the last few years, but damn if it isn't getting more gotdamn funny by the second listening to all the fucking burnt orange whine about it.

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3 minutes ago, mulletpelini said:

What a fucking pussy.  Way to walk the line.  "only root against Texas if it's good for my squad"  Fuck you.  This horns down thing is quite possibly the stupidest thing I've heard from college football in the last few years, but damn if it isn't getting more gotdamn funny by the second listening to all the fucking burnt orange whine about it.

Being a pussy is running away because you don't get to boss everyone around and build your program around low functioning sociopaths.  Enjoy the Heroes Game.  And Runza.

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