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Posted
16 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I have exactly zero percent sympathy for this person’s activities or views but it is impossible to view this any other way than a blatant attempt to deport someone for protected speech.  They haven’t even provided examples of his support for Hamas rhetorically, just that he led a campus protest. 

A perfectly fair perspective. We don't have to agree on the subject matter, but the bottom line is that protesting against Israel is not a fucking crime and shouldn't be treated as one.

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Posted

Hamas was listed as a terrorist organization by the US DNI all the way back in 1997. The Rules and Regulations that Laxtonto posted (all the way back from 2005) make it pretty clear in Article VII, that even support for a terrorist organization can get your green card revoked and get you deported. How hard do you think it would be to find video coverage of this guy supporting Hamas, or have witnesses come forward and say that he voiced support for Hamas? Is shouting "From the River to the Sea" showing support for Hamas? I would imagine there is footage of him shouting it.  

If a university campus wasn't vandalized, and Jewish students weren't verbally attacked, and regular students weren't inconvenienced on their way between classes, and it was a true "peaceful protest" I don't think there would be much made of the situation. But, where would be the fun in that. Those actions galvanized what little sympathy they had, against them. Those actions are going to lead to FAFO. 

CHIEF

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Posted
3 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I have exactly zero percent sympathy for this person’s activities or views but it is impossible to view this any other way than a blatant attempt to deport someone for protected speech.  They haven’t even provided examples of his support for Hamas rhetorically, just that he led a campus protest. 

 

3 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

A perfectly fair perspective. We don't have to agree on the subject matter, but the bottom line is that protesting against Israel is not a fucking crime and shouldn't be treated as one.

Do we know how he led the protest? Was he putting up flyers? Was he actively engaged in the illegal aspects? What's the line he's supposed to have crossed from protesting to supporting Hamas?

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Posted
Just now, gsoda3 said:

 

Do we know how he led the protest? Was he putting up flyers? Was he actively engaged in the illegal aspects? What's the line he's supposed to have crossed from protesting to supporting Hamas?

Well he wasn't charged with anything and the university didn't even officially claim he broke their rules of conduct

The current reporting that I can find (unless you can find something else to refute it) is that he was pointed out to senators Cruz and Fetterman by Jewish student groups, and then ICE arrested him (I found the link from his wiki page)

https://forward.com/news/703018/mahmoud-khalil-columbia-cuad-ice/

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Posted
2 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

 

Do we know how he led the protest? Was he putting up flyers? Was he actively engaged in the illegal aspects? What's the line he's supposed to have crossed from protesting to supporting Hamas?

These people do not differentiate. As far as the administration is concerned, protesting in any way in favor of Palestinian emancipation is support for Hamas, full stop. That's the end of it. The fact that the notion is patently absurd on its face and that the actions of ICE/DHS are illegal as fuck be damned.

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

Well he wasn't charged with anything and the university didn't even officially claim he broke their rules of conduct

The current reporting that I can find (unless you can find something else to refute it) is that he was pointed out to senators Cruz and Fetterman by Jewish student groups, and then ICE arrested him (I found the link from his wiki page)

https://forward.com/news/703018/mahmoud-khalil-columbia-cuad-ice/

Don't forget that piece of shit Shai Davidai.

Quote

By the time DHS officers showed up at Khalil’s door, right-wing commenters on and off Columbia’s campus had been agitating for his arrest for days. Shai Davidai, a Columbia professor banned from campus for harassing pro-Palestinian students, posted on X thanking Secretary of State Marco Rubio for the withdrawal of funding—and directly encouraging him to take “strong action” against Khalil individually.

 

Posted
21 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

And by the way, if you think this shit is going to stop at pro-Palestinian green card/visa holders, you're kidding yourself. This is simply a test run for what they want to do to any person inside the US (citizen or not) that is critical of the administration.

The arrest was described as a blueprint to the Free Press (high credibility, right-center bias per mbfc.)

image.thumb.png.6e4179aca579859309edb04b93a0b669.png
 

 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

The arrest was described as a blueprint to the Free Press (high credibility, right-center bias per mbfc.)

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I just don't think people realize how strong the "designated terrorist organization" language is vs pretty much anything else regarding how the immigration law is written. It is multiple levels more harsh than any other process tied to an illegal activity or falsity. I am now interested in how many other movements on college campuses can be tied to supporting a known terrorist organization. Outside of HAMAS, Iran, and maybe now with the immigration strife in Ireland, the New Irish Republican Army, I don't see any other potential groups that are easy fodder for domestic academic institutions, 

And before anyone gets into the discussion about protected political free speech, remember that political campaign donations are even considered political free speech and even those are barred from non-US citizens.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

I just don't think people realize how strong the "designated terrorist organization" language is vs pretty much anything else regarding how the immigration law is written. It is multiple levels more harsh than any other process tied to an illegal activity or falsity. I am now interested in how many other movements on college campuses can be tied to supporting a known terrorist organization. Outside of HAMAS, Iran, and maybe now with the immigration strife in Ireland, the New Irish Republican Army, I don't see any other potential groups that are easy fodder for domestic academic institutions, 

And before anyone gets into the discussion about protected political free speech, remember that political campaign donations are even considered political free speech and even those are barred from non-US citizens.

Sure, I think everyone here understands that, at least at a basic level. The issue at hand here is that equating anti-Zionist, pro-Palestinian liberation, etc. speech with supporting Hamas is a completely ludicrous conflation. However, that extremely flawed premise is exactly what is being used here by this administration (and the previous one, to a lesser degree) in a pretty naked attempt to muddy the distinction and suppress what should be protected speech. No matter what your position on Israel/Palestine, saying "Fuck Israel" or "Free Palestine" (or whatever you want to say in the opposite direction) should not get you arrested, deported, and/or black bagged by the state, period. This should not be a controversial thing to say.

I don't think anyone here would argue that Hamas is a good actor or that support for Hamas is an acceptable position for anyone to take. Certainly, offering material support to Hamas in any way should be considered completely unacceptable, I wouldn't think a single person that posts on this site would disagree with that position.

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Posted
51 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

The arrest was described as a blueprint to the Free Press (high credibility, right-center bias per mbfc.)

image.thumb.png.6e4179aca579859309edb04b93a0b669.png
 

 

Negged for describing Bari Weiss' rag as having high credibility.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Captainant said:

It's gonna be real fun when the president follows through with designating protests against his primary donors companies as "domestic terrorism". So great job thinking ahead, as always Rex.

Yep.  Read the quoted text above.  That is 100% the play here.  And Rex and crew will support it because "real Americans shouldn't be disloyal to the regime anyway."

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Posted
Just now, Rex Kramer said:

Zero to do with Trump.

Yet that is where you are dead wrong.  You are being played.  Like a fucking fiddle.

They get you to go along with their tactics, cheering in support, because you dislike the people they are going after today.  Cool.  There are plenty of people I dislike, who take positions and hold beliefs I find abhorrent.  Let's have fun making a list of all of them sometime, I'm sure we have lots of overlap.  But that's not the point.  This is the point:

Once you have validated and legitimized the tactic, then it is deployed against a wider pool of people.  And you are fucking stuck with it, because "we the people" (you and those like you, in particular) have totally legitimized the move.

That someone so pro-Israel and so pro-Jewish can't seem to place his Niemöller, and his "first they came for...." lesson is pretty amazing.  When you legitimize and enable the tactic and process, it is legitimized and enabled across the board, without restriction.  That's a lesson that I thought history had taught us.  I guess I was wrong, and we don't learn jack shit.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yet that is where you are dead wrong.  You are being played.  Like a fucking fiddle.

They get you to go along with their tactics, cheering in support, because you dislike the people they are going after today.  Cool.  There are plenty of people I dislike, who take positions and hold beliefs I find abhorrent.  Let's have fun making a list of all of them sometime, I'm sure we have lots of overlap.  But that's not the point.  This is the point:

Once you have validated and legitimized the tactic, then it is deployed against a wider pool of people.  And you are fucking stuck with it, because "we the people" (you and those like you, in particular) have totally legitimized the move.

That someone so pro-Israel and so pro-Jewish can't seem to place his Niemöller, and his "first they came for...." lesson is pretty amazing.  When you legitimize and enable the tactic and process, it is legitimized and enabled across the board, without restriction.  That's a lesson that I thought history had taught us.  I guess I was wrong, and we don't learn jack shit.

This just makes me think...will turnabout be fair play? No party keeps majority and power forever...

Maybe the Republicans don't fear a response from the Dem's inkind. In politics, like in geopolitics, a little old fashioned "mutually assured destruction" threat goes a long way.

Let me be 100% clear. The Dems are not to be blamed for MAGA and half the country being MAGATs. That's victim blaming.

But there are things that could have been done better that we should review and learn from and implement moving forward.

Dem's have abdicated the responsiblity to "discipline" (or punish, if you will) rogue/bad behavior. Like with a child, spare the rod and spoil the child, we allowed for increasing and escalating horrible behavior to normalize. And here we are.

In short, maybe the Dem's oughta think about how they will serve a cold dish when they get power again. And you can't be scared of division or another civil war because sitting idle is what got us here...

Edited by Vegas64
Posted
7 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

In short, maybe the Dem's oughta think about how they will serve a cold dish when they get power again. And you can't be scared of division or another civil war because sitting idle is what got us here...

Oh, you're singing my song.  I think that these sorts of actions are abhorrent and destructive.  But once one side decides to use them, unabashedly....then those are the rules now.  Ignore them and play by the old rules at your peril.

If the Dems can ever take power again (they can't, and they won't -- the system has now been irreparably broken, and there will be no future electoral power shifts because the party in power simply won't allow it), they need to go full-on vengeance, prosecute, persecute, and ruin against the enemies of the Republic.  Them's the rules now.  They are really, really, really stupid rules.  But here we are.

Posted
33 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yet that is where you are dead wrong.  You are being played.  Like a fucking fiddle.

They get you to go along with their tactics, cheering in support, because you dislike the people they are going after today.  Cool.  There are plenty of people I dislike, who take positions and hold beliefs I find abhorrent.  Let's have fun making a list of all of them sometime, I'm sure we have lots of overlap.  But that's not the point.  This is the point:

Once you have validated and legitimized the tactic, then it is deployed against a wider pool of people.  And you are fucking stuck with it, because "we the people" (you and those like you, in particular) have totally legitimized the move.

That someone so pro-Israel and so pro-Jewish can't seem to place his Niemöller, and his "first they came for...." lesson is pretty amazing.  When you legitimize and enable the tactic and process, it is legitimized and enabled across the board, without restriction.  That's a lesson that I thought history had taught us.  I guess I was wrong, and we don't learn jack shit.

"I hate Trump but I love his blatant Gestapo ops against people that make me feel feelings" is certainly a position to take. Once again, I weep for our education system.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Vegas64 said:

This just makes me think...will turnabout be fair play? No party keeps majority and power forever...

Maybe the Republicans don't fear a response from the Dem's inkind. In politics, like in geopolitics, a little old fashioned "mutually assured destruction" threat goes a long way.

Let me be 100% clear. The Dems are not to be blamed for MAGA and half the country being MAGATs. That's victim blaming.

But there are things that could have been done better that we should review and learn from and implement moving forward.

Dem's have abdicated the responsiblity to "discipline" (or punish, if you will) rogue/bad behavior. Like with a child, spare the rod and spoil the child, we allowed for increasing and escalating horrible behavior to normalize. And here we are.

In short, maybe the Dem's oughta think about how they will serve a cold dish when they get power again. And you can't be scared of division or another civil war because sitting idle is what got us here...

image.thumb.png.9646d5be23fed4cb3f26adcc216d8c47.png

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Posted
3 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

image.thumb.png.9646d5be23fed4cb3f26adcc216d8c47.png

But will D's be man enough to use the boot in retaliation. That's the inherent misogynistic question I'm trying to ask.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

This the war or protest thread?

As the protests concern the war, I post the following: students are being arrested for peacefully protesting. One student made a speech, and was asked to leave. She left. And was then arrested. The protest was a walkout, and 16 folks were arrested in all.

Quote

At least 16 students and community members were arrested or detained on Monday during a peaceful walkout at Cornell University’s Ithaca campus. The demonstration, organized by Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP) at Cornell, protested the presence of former Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni at the “Pathways to Peace” event hosted by Interim President Michael Kotlikoff.

Livni, who led Israel’s Operation Cast Lead in 2008-09, has been the subject of an arrest warrant in the UK for alleged war crimes. Other speakers at the event included Daniel B. Shapiro, a former U.S. ambassador to Israel, and Salam Fayyad, a former prime minister of the Palestinian Authority. Protesters criticized the panel for presenting a biased view of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

SJP published a guest column in the Cornell Daily Sun early Monday outlining their opposition to the event. Hours later, the Coalition for Mutual Liberation displayed a banner outside Willard Straight Hall announcing the walkout.

During the event, Kotlikof initially assured the audience that expressions of opinions would be allowed. However, after a few attendees spoke against Livni’s involvement, the university police began making arrests. The first protester, who spoke about Livni’s alleged war crimes, left peacefully when asked but was still arrested. More arrests followed as attendees exited, with some detained despite not actively disrupting the event.

Witnesses described the police response as excessive, with some individuals being restrained or forcefully removed. One student was arrested while asking to retrieve their car keys from the building, while another was targeted for wearing a keffiyeh. Protesters who remained outside Bailey Hall in solidarity included students observing Ramadan, who broke their fast while waiting for the event to end.

Cornell University has not yet commented on the arrests.

 

 

 

https://www.fingerlakes1.com/2025/03/11/protesters-arrested-during-peaceful-walkout-at-cornell-university/

Edited by Willfully Horn
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Posted

Feelings?

 

ADL’s threat figures included more than 150 incidents of physical assault, more than 1,840 acts of vandalism and more than 8,000 antisemitic incidents involving verbal or written harassment.

The organization noted at least 1,200 antisemitic incidents occurred on US college campuses over the past year, representing a 500% spike from the previous year’s data in the same category.

 

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/10/06/us/anti-jewish-threats-us-adl
 

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Posted (edited)

Do we really need another lesson in why the ADL is not at all a credible organization?

e: This is not to say antisemitism is not a very bad, very real thing that threatens Jewish people on a daily basis. It is. That doesn't mean that your open support for Gestapo operations against people exercising protected speech is any less insane.

Edited by Brian Fantana
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Posted
4 minutes ago, Bevo said:

ADL’s threat figures included more than 150 incidents of physical assault, more than 1,840 acts of vandalism and more than 8,000 antisemitic incidents involving verbal or written harassment.

Groovy.  Arrest and charge any individual who committed a crime.

Do NOT arrest and charge people with a crime for having a political position you disagree with, no matter how vehemently.  Can we have that agreement?  No, we can't?  I mean, the administration seems to be firmly in your camp, so hooray for you.

Just remember, "first they came for" is an ironclad rule of authoritarian regimes.  It goes in the "be careful what you ask for, you're going to get it good and hard" drawer.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Feelings?

 

ADL’s threat figures included more than 150 incidents of physical assault, more than 1,840 acts of vandalism and more than 8,000 antisemitic incidents involving verbal or written harassment.

The organization noted at least 1,200 antisemitic incidents occurred on US college campuses over the past year, representing a 500% spike from the previous year’s data in the same category.

 

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/10/06/us/anti-jewish-threats-us-adl
 

Honestly this post deserves a neg because it's another very thinly veiled attempt at equating speech critical of the nation state of Israel with antisemitism. That's not to even begin listing off all the reasons that the ADL is a dogshit org that no serious person would ever cite as a source for anything.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Groovy.  Arrest and charge any individual who committed a crime.

Do NOT arrest and charge people with a crime for having a political position you disagree with, no matter how vehemently.  Can we have that agreement?  No, we can't?  I mean, the administration seems to be firmly in your camp, so hooray for you.

Just remember, "first they came for" is an ironclad rule of authoritarian regimes.  It goes in the "be careful what you ask for, you're going to get it good and hard" drawer.

Groovy, but specifically we are using words like peaceful protests when most people know damn well that protests were a mixed bag. Harrassment of Jews on and off campuses and a need for escorts and increased police protection were necessary in many to most instances. And even with this increased protection we saw a 150% increase in incidences year over year.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Bevo said:

were a mixed bag

Highlighting the important language.  "Mixed bag" means that there were 1) violent criminal acts that took place (true, not disputed) and 2) peaceful protests/statements of a position that differs from yours (also true, should not be disputed).

The existence of item 1) does not give carte blanche to treat actions under item 2) as crimes.  Agreed?

Because if you do agree....then you should be troubled by the administration's rhetoric and approach.

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Posted
36 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Groovy, but specifically we are using words like peaceful protests when most people know damn well that protests were a mixed bag. Harrassment of Jews on and off campuses and a need for escorts and increased police protection were necessary in many to most instances. And even with this increased protection we saw a 150% increase in incidences year over year.

Literally every protest ever of any substantial size is a mixed bag. There are always going to be people that either press things too far or use the premise of the protest as cover to push an agenda that's actually nefarious in nature. The infamous Charlottesville Unite the Right rally is perhaps the greatest example of this where there were many, many peaceful protestors/demonstrators on both sides, but there were also quite a few groups that used the premise of the rally as an excuse to intimidate others, inflict violence on others, or otherwise engage in activities that most of the people in attendance would find abhorrent (such as the tiki torch mob that was marching and chanting "Jews will not replace us!" etc).

What Brisket is trying to say to you is that we cannot be lulled into a state where we begin to accept the US government imprisoning, black bagging, and/or deporting people who are not engaging in illegal activities simply because they are engaging in speech that our elected representatives do not like.

Once we begin to accept that, we are lost as a society, period. Civil disobedience has been one of the (if not THE) greatest tools available to affect positive change on our society from a civil rights perspective, and people like you are [seemingly] unwittingly cheering on the government's attempts to destroy that tool with finality. It's very dismaying to see.

Again, no one disagrees with you that antisemitism is a problem, and no one disagrees that antisemitism increased (worldwide, not just on college campuses) after the events of October 7th, it was inevitable, and it fucking sucks. People suck. Our highest levels of government are now infested with actual antisemitic pieces of shit. A White House deputy chief of staff and homeland security advisor is an out and about actual unapologetic neo-Nazi. These people do not give the slightest shit about Jewish people beyond using them and the state of Israel as a tool to ultimately silence and/or punish all speech critical of their actions.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

These people do not give the slightest shit about Jewish people beyond using them and the state of Israel as a tool to ultimately silence and/or punish all speech critical of their actions.

Also, that the "pro-Israel" crowd doesn't see this as plain as day is baffling to me.  You are being USED.  That's it.  You are a tool of the autocracy -- you think that you are using them, but you have it bassackwards.

Posted

I guess I look at this too simplistically. As a visa, or green card holder, you are a guest in this country. As long as you remain a pleasant guest, and abide by immigration  rules and regulations, America will remain a gracious host. Laxtonto is wise to tell the international students, he works with to stay out of protests. As a US citizen, I can shit in my own floor, as I have to clean it up. As a guest, you simply do not have that right. Especially, if, as a guest you are harassing US citizens. It is a very entitled stance that has enveloped some of our elite universities. My threshold is do what you want, but when property is destroyed, or US citizens get harassed, you have crossed that line, and all bets are off. Someone was bound to be made an example of, and unfortunately for this dude, he is it.

CHIEF

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Posted

Hey, guys, what's a little tacit fascism between friends? I mean, if we can't equate opposition to a foreign government's actions to anti-semitism and supporting terrorism, we're not going to get where some want us to go. So, let's go ahead and start rounding up and deporting legal residents to demonstrate we're serious about "you'd better watch what you say, or else." Free speech, free shmeech.

It's funny; I was listening to an interview with the deputy secretary of the DHS on NPR about an hour or so ago, and he couldn't answer a couple of very simple, basic questions:

  1. What specifically did this guy do to support terrorism or antisemitism?
  2. What specific law did this guy break?

Every attempt to respond was, "Like I said, didn't you see the protests on the teevee?" as if it were self-evident that ANY protest against Israeli actions OBVIOUSLY represents anti-semitism and support for Hamas's terrorism. It's kind of funny because we heard that exact same bullshit from a lot of simpletons on these boards.

Anyone here is welcome to listen to it themselves: https://www.npr.org/2025/03/13/nx-s1-5326015/dhs-deputy-secretary-troy-edgar-discusses-arrest-of-protest-leader-deportations

Personally, I don't know if this guy was involved in any behavior that would actually constitute harassment or the destruction of property. He claims to have been primarily a spokesperson and/or mediator between the protestors and the university. Until now, the government hasn't provided any evidence to the public that he did. Just vague statements of anti-semitism and support for terrorism.

I hope we all realize everyone in the United States is protected by the US Constitution, including green card holders, visa holders, and undocumented immigrants. This guy, under our laws, is protected under the First Amendment and is afforded the right to Due Process. Shit, the guy is also married to a US citizen and is a legal permanent resident.

*****

A little background here:
In 2019, it was decreed (Executive Order 13899) that Jewish people (including American citizens who'd never been to Israel in their entire lives) were not only an ethnoreligious group but also a nationality which, in turn, "legitimizes" the assertion that criticizing Israeli State actions are essentially an example of antisemitism, because you see, the authoritarian mindset doesn't really tolerate nuance very well. 

(To illustrate the absurdity of that take, let's consider any number of Old World countries comprised primarily of a single or dominant ethnic group. Hell, Europe is lousy with them. So, let's say I've got a problem with some bullshit Bosnia is up to, like being dicks to Serbians, and I go down to campus and say, "Hey, Bosnia, stop acting like an asshole." Does that make me necessarily Islamophobic and wish to see the destruction of Bosnia and the Bosnian people? Well, no, of fucking course not. I just don't like what the Bosnian government is doing, and in fact, I believe that its actions actually further imperil peace in the Balkans.)

Turns out, though, that little EO expanding the legal definition of Judaism in America to a "nationality" wasn't universally supported by the Jewish community because many actual anti-semites and neo-Nazis think the same way: Jews aren't Americans. By nature, they're an Other, separate from America.

*****

Ask yourself this: Do I actually believe in the US Constitution and the rule of law? Or is it all just bullshit unless I change my mind only for when it's convenient?

 

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Posted
12 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

I guess I look at this too simplistically. As a visa, or green card holder, you are a guest in this country. As long as you remain a pleasant guest, and abide by immigration  rules and regulations, America will remain a gracious host. Laxtonto is wise to tell the international students, he works with to stay out of protests. As a US citizen, I can shit in my own floor, as I have to clean it up. As a guest, you simply do not have that right. Especially, if, as a guest you are harassing US citizens. It is a very entitled stance that has enveloped some of our elite universities. My threshold is do what you want, but when property is destroyed, or US citizens get harassed, you have crossed that line, and all bets are off. Someone was bound to be made an example of, and unfortunately for this dude, he is it.

CHIEF

Again, someone needs to point to the laws of this country that have been violated. The Bill of Rights applies to every person on American soil. Simply using speech that runs contrary to the acting administration's message is not anywhere close to being an adequate or legal reason to black bag/arrest and deport someone. Not remotely close.

No evidence has been presented that this person is a member of or offers material (or even verbal) support for any terrorist organization. He has not been charged or even accused of a crime.

The administration's angle is that his speech presents a national security risk, which is ridiculous, and no red-blooded American should ever accept that premise on its face. It runs completely contrary to what we claim are our most important values as a country.

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Posted
19 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

I guess I look at this too simplistically. As a visa, or green card holder, you are a guest in this country. As long as you remain a pleasant guest, and abide by immigration  rules and regulations, America will remain a gracious host. Laxtonto is wise to tell the international students, he works with to stay out of protests. As a US citizen, I can shit in my own floor, as I have to clean it up. As a guest, you simply do not have that right. Especially, if, as a guest you are harassing US citizens. It is a very entitled stance that has enveloped some of our elite universities. My threshold is do what you want, but when property is destroyed, or US citizens get harassed, you have crossed that line, and all bets are off. Someone was bound to be made an example of, and unfortunately for this dude, he is it.

CHIEF

I agree with what you've said, but the issue is no one's provided evidence he was involved in the destruction of property or harassing students.  No one's even said that much.  The only charge levied against him in the media is he helped organize the protest, but what does that mean?

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I don’t know what it means, and I most certainly do not care. The “issue” for most non-fantana types is the Trump admin did this. 

That's not my issue.  And you should care. You might not be affected this time or the next time but discriminatory enforcement of pseudo law is an abuse that leads down a dark road.

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Posted
14 minutes ago, bolverk said:

I hope we all realize everyone in the United States is protected by the US Constitution, including green card holders, visa holders, and undocumented immigrants. This guy, under our laws, is protected under the First Amendment and is afforded the right to Due Process. Shit, the guy is also married to a US citizen and is a legal permanent resident.

 

But are they though? I don't know. I am not versed in Immigration law, rules, and regulations. Laxtonto seems to be an expert in this field simply due to his work environment. I would think that his status as a legal permanent resident would help. As a US citizen I can proudly support Hamas in my own country, according to Laxtonto's post, on the last page, a green card holder can, but he better keep his opinion to him or herself.

CHIEF

Posted
2 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

But are they though? I don't know. I am not versed in Immigration law, rules, and regulations. Laxtonto seems to be an expert in this field simply due to his work environment. I would think that his status as a legal permanent resident would help. As a US citizen I can proudly support Hamas in my own country, according to Laxtonto's post, on the last page, a green card holder can, but he better keep his opinion to him or herself.

CHIEF

Laxtonto wasn't talking about rights, simply risks. I'm not saying it was "smart," but he was absolutely exercising his supposedly guaranteed constitutional rights unless, of course, he engaged in illegal activity. Hell, engaging in any act of protest is inherently risky for all kinds of reasons. One thing you shouldn't fear, however, is a government capriciously deporting your Free Speech just because they disagree with it.

When I was living on a student visa in France country, it would've never occurred to me that had I peacefully protested against, say, the US invasion of Panama (which did occur while I was living over there), I could have been imprisoned without charges and eventually deported. Shit, protesting is the national fucking past-time over there.

For the record, I didn't protest it, but I also initially had a really hard time explaining/justifying/understanding it at the moment it happened. And, really, I don't even recall if there were protests over that, though I'm sure someone was somewhere.

Essentially, what you're saying, however, is that LEGAL residents of the US should be afraid of the federal government because we just might decide to suddenly act like an autocracy. And, apparently, several posters are again admitting to their tacit fascism.

What laws did this guy break?

https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/after-we-grant-your-green-card/rights-and-responsibilities-of-a-green-card-holder-permanent-resident 

image.thumb.png.82ca9b11e6184d8f4fcb99efdb191bc7.png

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Posted
20 hours ago, Bevo said:

Groovy, but specifically we are using words like peaceful protests when most people know damn well that protests were a mixed bag. Harrassment of Jews on and off campuses and a need for escorts and increased police protection were necessary in many to most instances. And even with this increased protection we saw a 150% increase in incidences year over year.

This is just a lie.

Posted
45 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I don’t know what it means, and I most certainly do not care. The “issue” for most non-fantana types is the Trump admin did this. 

The law protects everybody or the law protects nobody. Pick one.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The law protects everybody or the law protects nobody. Pick one.

Small government people wanting to make us afraid of our own government.

Posted
11 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Laxtonto wasn't talking about rights, simply risks. I'm not saying it was "smart," but he was absolutely exercising his supposedly guaranteed constitutional rights unless, of course, he engaged in illegal activity. Hell, engaging in any act of protest is inherently risky for all kinds of reasons. One thing you shouldn't fear, however, is a government capriciously deporting your Free Speech just because they disagree with it.

When I was living on a student visa in France country, it would've never occurred to me that had I peacefully protested against, say, the US invasion of Panama (which did occur while I was living over there), I could have been imprisoned without charges and eventually deported. Shit, protesting is the national fucking past-time over there.

For the record, I didn't protest it, but I also initially had a really hard time explaining/justifying/understanding it at the moment it happened. And, really, I don't even recall if there were protests over that, though I'm sure someone was somewhere.

Essentially, what you're saying, however, is that LEGAL residents of the US should be afraid of the federal government because we just might decide to suddenly act like an autocracy. And, apparently, several posters are again admitting to their tacit fascism.

What laws did this guy break?

https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/after-we-grant-your-green-card/rights-and-responsibilities-of-a-green-card-holder-permanent-resident 

image.thumb.png.82ca9b11e6184d8f4fcb99efdb191bc7.png

It says that a Permanent Resident must "obey all laws of the US and localities." Does that include lawful orders? Like to disperse from the college premises? We know that order was given multiple times, and ignored. Normal shit that would get a US citizen possibly arrested, but gives grounds to deport a non-US citizen.

Permanent Residence does not guarantee the same rights as a US citizen. It says right in your post that they cannot vote in federal, state, and local elections.

CHIEF

Posted
1 hour ago, CHIEF said:

I guess I look at this too simplistically. As a visa, or green card holder, you are a guest in this country. As long as you remain a pleasant guest, and abide by immigration  rules and regulations, America will remain a gracious host. Laxtonto is wise to tell the international students, he works with to stay out of protests. As a US citizen, I can shit in my own floor, as I have to clean it up. As a guest, you simply do not have that right. Especially, if, as a guest you are harassing US citizens. It is a very entitled stance that has enveloped some of our elite universities. My threshold is do what you want, but when property is destroyed, or US citizens get harassed, you have crossed that line, and all bets are off. Someone was bound to be made an example of, and unfortunately for this dude, he is it.

CHIEF

BUT....

1 hour ago, gsoda3 said:

I agree with what you've said, but the issue is no one's provided evidence he was involved in the destruction of property or harassing students.  No one's even said that much.  The only charge levied against him in the media is he helped organize the protest, but what does that mean?

^^^^ This.

1 hour ago, Rex Kramer said:

I don’t care. And suspect that 75% of Americans feel the same. Maybe more. I can assure you that neither I nor anyone I care about or even know will ever be affected by such future enforcements. 

...he posts as the administration has already suggested that protests against the activities of an admin insider and one of its biggest supporters will be deemed "terrorism."

The relentless response of "nothing is wrong until the final, irrevocable action of the authoritarian regime happens....by which time it is much, much, MUCH too late to do anything about it" is consistent.

We suggest over and over that we really ought to put out that fire that's burning before the winds get much stronger, and the relentless and unwavering response is "it's not that windy right now, and Pacific Palisades has been around forever -- it's not going to burn."  It's so maddening to watch this unfolding before our eyes, when we all know how it goes.

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Posted
23 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

It says that a Permanent Resident must "obey all laws of the US and localities." Does that include lawful orders? Like to disperse from the college premises? We know that order was given multiple times, and ignored. Normal shit that would get a US citizen possibly arrested, but gives grounds to deport a non-US citizen.

Permanent Residence does not guarantee the same rights as a US citizen. It says right in your post that they cannot vote in federal, state, and local elections.

CHIEF

Where in the fuck did I suggest a non-citizen has the right to vote?

Where in any of the articles regarding the protests does it say that this particular guy didn't follow lawful orders? To date, the current regime has not claimed he broke any laws whatsoever -- aside from exercising his rights to oppose the actions of a foreign government.

If you or anyone else shows that Khalil, the guy in detention who has not been allowed to see a lawyer, broke an actual law or refused lawful orders, then okay. But I'm not going to be silent over the detention of a legal US resident because Big Brother didn't like what he had to say.

If you are okay with the detention of a legal US resident because you didn't like his speech, then quite frankly, you are an authoritarian. And, if that's the case, then as an American who believes in the US Constitution, you are my sworn enemy. I'm quite serious about that.

Posted
2 hours ago, CHIEF said:

I guess I look at this too simplistically. As a visa, or green card holder, you are a guest in this country. As long as you remain a pleasant guest, and abide by immigration  rules and regulations, America will remain a gracious host. Laxtonto is wise to tell the international students, he works with to stay out of protests. As a US citizen, I can shit in my own floor, as I have to clean it up. As a guest, you simply do not have that right. Especially, if, as a guest you are harassing US citizens. It is a very entitled stance that has enveloped some of our elite universities. My threshold is do what you want, but when property is destroyed, or US citizens get harassed, you have crossed that line, and all bets are off. Someone was bound to be made an example of, and unfortunately for this dude, he is it.

CHIEF

All this. SOP in most countries. I have Mexican residency, but if I got picked up by policia at a political protest, they'd cancel my residency and toss me in the Rio Grande.

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