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Posted
13 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Is that supposed to make them likable? 

They're not likeable either way.  If they celebrated like crazy then you'd have all the 'well they didn't have to overcome shit to win, unlike Jordan' and on and on.  I think it's just funny there's a narrative the league wants this team to win - a team in fucking OKC of all places lol.  Reminds me of LA fans years ago bitching about SA.  I do agree OKC gets some real whistle benefit because of how they play but acting like they weren't the best team all year outside of any whistle help is laughable.  Maybe they would not have had the greatest point differential ever but they would still have been the best team.  Even as an OKC fan, it sucks to see that Indiana team lose.  G1 in NYC was easily the best NBA game I've ever attended.  Hope Tyrese comes back 100% and they meet in the finals again in a couple years. 

Posted
42 minutes ago, Derka said:

lamest title celebration ever.

 

well both jalen/jaylin williams' have never drank before apparently which is a little weird after going through college phase  and the nba lifestyle for a couple of seasons.

 

SGA was on another planet yesterday morning on good morning america. 

 

why the hell is rachel nichols granted locker room access? where does she even work? Fs1 has nothing to do with the nba besides weekday morning talk shows 

Posted (edited)

Man I didn’t realize this group was so hated. Not sure what the beef is with them, they’re far more likable personality wise than KD, Russ, and Fatbeard Harden. Because of refs? No way the league is rigging games for its smallest market team whose finals ratings were not good until game 7. Because they play aggressive? It works and is why they get to the line so much. I tried to form an emotional attachment this season and couldn’t so I’m not some fan standing up for them. Objectively they are a good story and earned the title. They’re gonna be good for a while too so get used to it I suppose.

Edited by 'stache
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Posted

Oklahoma residents cannot ever understand why their team is hated or that they get favorable treatment. “Guys I don’t get it!” 

13 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

SGA was on another planet yesterday morning on good morning america. 

Dude looked like he finished an entire joint before the camera turned on 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Man I didn’t realize this group was so hated.

i don’t think they’re hated, i think they’re just not liked. sga flops around like a soccer playing bitch, that’s just a fact, and is the main reason that people don’t want to root for this team. then you have the fact that, as we are seeing, these guys are all lame as hell. there’s nothing to root for or against with any of these guys. as we’ve seen in the various commercials these players have taken part in, they each have the personality of a manila envelope. it’s just a boring ass group of lame ass dudes who don’t do anything to make their team or sport compelling. it's no surprise that all anyone wanted to talk about out after this series (including/especially sports talk shows) was the team that lost. this okc team is just lame as hell.

Edited by Derka
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Posted
4 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Man I didn’t realize this group was so hated. Not sure what the beef is with them, they’re far more likable personality wise than KD, Russ, and Fatbeard Harden. Because of refs? No way the league is rigging games for its smallest market team whose finals ratings were not good until game 7. Because they play aggressive? It works and is why they get to the line so much. I tried to form an emotional attachment this season and couldn’t so I’m not some fan standing up for them. Objectively they are a good story and earned the title. They’re gonna be good for a while too so get used to it I suppose.

literally  not a single OKC fan on this site  has been like.. "yea i can see why we're extremely disliked " in the NBA world besides Chitowndoc.  Not a single one of you has said "hmm maybe yea Shai getting to the line for throwing his shoulder into a player playing lateral sound defense and throwing up some slop BS only to get rewarded with 2 FTs for it" makes this team unliked by a vast majority of the NBA. 

i mean fans of all different teams have shouted it to you on why nobody respects OKC, and you all are still dumbfounded by it

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Oklahoma residents cannot ever understand why their team is hated or that they get favorable treatment. “Guys I don’t get it!” 

Dude looked like he finished an entire joint before the camera turned on 

Ok, Oklahoma sucks, I have no pride in the nationwide perception of this state based on how its leaders act, but what is the explanation why the NBA wants to provide favorable treatment to its smallest market team? I don't quite understand that part.

9 minutes ago, Derka said:

i don’t think they’re hated, i think they’re just not liked. sga flops around like a soccer playing bitch, that’s just a fact, and is the main reason that people don’t want to root for this team. then you have the fact that, as we are seeing, these guys are all lame as hell. there’s nothing to root for or against with any of these guys. as we’ve seen in the various commercials these players have taken part in, they each have the personality of a manila envelope. it’s just a boring ass group of lame ass dudes who don’t do anything to make their team or sport compelling. it's no surprise that all anyone wanted to talk about out after this series (including/especially sports talk shows) was the team that lost. this okc team is just lame as hell.

Like 90% of today's superstars flop around like crazy or bitch about every call or noncall (including Luka and Joker and and Curry and Bron etc.). It's annoying as hell leaguewide. I guess they'd be more likeable if they had more gangbangers or wannabe rappers? Being weird as hell on social media like KD? Kicking people in the dick like Draymond? Steph Curry is as vanilla as they come and he's more hated for being good and playing on Superteams. OKC built this team organically which is pretty cool I think. Being young as hell and not chugging Michelob Ultras is a reason to dislike them? I don't follow. But to be clear, I get that sports like/hate can be random, so it is what it is, I'd embrace it if I were a big Thuder fan. I did buy a t-shirt this year.

Edited by 'stache
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Posted

As a Spurs fan that went through this in the aughts, the proper response is “don’t care, had sex.” Who gives a fuck if no one likes your team? Hate train is about to get louder because okc is set up for the next decade.
 

But seriously, fuck the Thunder and Lou Dort in particular. 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

literally  not a single OKC fan on this site  has been like.. "yea i can see why we're extremely disliked " in the NBA world besides Chitowndoc.  Not a single one of you has said "hmm maybe yea Shai getting to the line for throwing his shoulder into a player playing lateral sound defense and throwing up some slop BS only to get rewarded with 2 FTs for it" makes this team unliked by a vast majority of the NBA. 

i mean fans of all different teams have shouted it to you on why nobody respects OKC, and you all are still dumbfounded by it

Don't respect them? LOL. As a former Mavs fan I guess I can see this coming from a Wolves fan. Last year's Mavs-Wolves series was fun as hell. Didn't see how OKC-Minn played out this year but I'm sure it was a lot of complaints about star players getting free throws because refs are supposed to ensure that free throws are even for every game regardless of gameplay.

Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Thunder physical defense = OU football holding

They can’t call it every play. And it makes the game unwatchable 

Well, the Mavs were able to handle it just fine last year, so maybe that's why I'm not so bitter. Fuck that wretched cunt Adelson for taking that from me.

Edited by 'stache
Posted
5 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Don't respect them? LOL. As a former Mavs fan I guess I can see this coming from a Wolves fan. Last year's Mavs-Wolves series was fun as hell. Didn't see how OKC-Minn played out this year but I'm sure it was a lot of complaints about star players getting free throws because refs are supposed to ensure that free throws are even for every game regardless of gameplay.

heres how MN-OKC played out:

G1: Shai had 7 FT attempts by the 7:30 mark of the 1Q. first half was sluggish for both teams. MN held the lead at half. 3Q the floodgates open by turnovers, fouls, FT's and MN missing open 3's. OKC wins big. SGA with like 15 FTs 

G2: Sort of the same 1H, close believe OKC was up by within reach. same 2H, SGA with a ton of FTs

G3: MN beat the shit out of them, OKC didnt get their whistle and it showed

G4: best game of series. MN wins every aspect of the game besides turnovers and lose by 2. Believe teams were 55-0 with the aspects MN won, but now 55-1. MNs 2 stars had bad games while role players played exceptional while I thought OKCs stars had their best combined ollective game in the entire playoffs. 

G5: Knew it was gonna be a blow out after the G4 let down. and it happened 

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Posted
14 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Like 90% of today's superstars flop around like crazy or bitch about every call or noncall (including Luka and Joker and and Curry and Bron etc.).

SGA is by far one of the most egregious at this, and you’re also grouping in guys who complain to officials with SGA who is out here flopping around in an attempt to get phantom foul calls. those are two different things. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, 'stache said:

Ok, Oklahoma sucks, I have no pride in the nationwide perception of this state based on how its leaders act, but what is the explanation why the NBA wants to provide favorable treatment to its smallest market team? I don't quite understand that part.

Like 90% of today's superstars flop around like crazy or bitch about every call or noncall (including Luka and Joker and and Curry and Bron etc.). It's annoying as hell leaguewide. I guess they'd be more likeable if they had more gangbangers or wannabe rappers? Being weird as hell on social media like KD? Kicking people in the dick like Draymond? Steph Curry is as vanilla as they come and he's more hated for being good and playing on Superteams. OKC built this team organically which is pretty cool I think. Being young as hell and not chugging Michelob Ultras is a reason to dislike them? I don't follow. But to be clear, I get that sports like/hate can be random, so it is what it is, I'd embrace it if I were a big Thuder fan. I did buy a t-shirt this year.

People just like to bitch.

Morant is wanna be gangster.  Bitch bitch bitch.  SGA is a nice and boring guy.  Bitch bitch bitch.

People don't like 3 ball all the time.  Bitch bitch bitch.  SGA has an old school mid range game.  Bitch bitch bitch.

People don't like super teams.  Bitch bitch bitch.  OKC builds through boring draft prospects.  Bitch bitch bitch.

They get good calls and bad calls, just like anyone ese.  Fouls are about even throughout all of the games.  Stars flop.  Bitch bitch bitch.

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Posted
14 minutes ago, Matter said:

Summing by team:

OKC 233 / 287=0.812 

INDY 269 / 337=0.798 

That's for the entire playoffs. Indy played in several more games than OKC.  For the Finals:

Indy 141 / 186  75.8%

OKC 176 / 214  82.24%

Posted
1 minute ago, Js1 said:

Are you on the Thunder payroll? 

Just curious, since you are ready and waiting to defend them to the death. 

The obsession with the officiating is borderline Aggy and every time the stats are out there to prove it wrong, it doesn't seem to matter.  The entire Minny team from the coach to the players to the fans were obsessed with this.  SGA would get clobbered, get a foul, and they'd come unglued.  The coach, too.  That's not why they lost but don't tell them that.

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

That's for the entire playoffs. Indy played in several more games than OKC.  For the Finals:

Indy 141 / 186  75.8%

OKC 176 / 214  82.24%

Actually, each team played 23 postseason games. 

No one should be surprised the player that drives to the basket more than anyone else in the league gets to the line. 

This is hilarious. Nesmith needs to move his feet instead of putting his right hand on SGA's body and then his left hand on SGA's shooting shoulder, right? A good way to not send SGA to the line is to, oh, I don't know, maybe don't put your fucking hand on his shooting arm? 
 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, gernblansten said:

This is hilarious. Nesmith needs to move his feet instead of putting his right hand on SGA's body and then his left hand on SGA's shooting shoulder, right? A good way to not send SGA to the line is to, oh, I don't know, maybe don't put your fucking hand on his shooting arm? 

Super hilarious that Dort and Caruso get away with it and nobody else does? 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Super hilarious that Dort and Caruso get away with it and nobody else does? 

Dort was 8th in fouls per game. Caruso was 91st in fouls per game, in just 19 minutes a game. Both players are near the top of the league in fouls per minute. Not surprising as the Thunder were tied for 5th in fouls called. 

But, people see what they want to see based on who they want to win. That team I don't like fouls all the time and it's never called and my team never fouls and gets them called. That's a strike!!!!! (half a foot outside) They're holding every play!!!! (both OL are blocking/holding the same). Fanatics.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, gernblansten said:

Dort was 8th in fouls per game. Caruso was 91st in fouls per game, in just 19 minutes a game. Both players are near the top of the league in fouls per minute. Not surprising as the Thunder were tied for 5th in fouls called. 

But, people see what they want to see based on who they want to win. That team I don't like fouls all the time and it's never called and my team never fouls and gets them called. That's a strike!!!!! (half a foot outside) They're holding every play!!!! (both OL are blocking/holding the same). Fanatics.

Caruso should foul out in 10 min of every game he plays.  And maybe 15 min for Dort.  They get away with a TON of shit. And don't get me started on Dort diving every time he encounters a screen.

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Posted

The OKC apologists cannot just enjoy their title

They have to aggressively defend their team's style of play and officiating bias instead of just enjoying it.  Life in Oklahoma really must fucking suck 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Js1 said:

The OKC apologists cannot just enjoy their title

They have to aggressively defend their team's style of play and officiating bias instead of just enjoying it.  Life in Oklahoma really must fucking suck 

We actually don't care.  It's like if we had sex with the hottest woman in town but it was only because we had a lot of money:

petrino.jpg

Posted
1 hour ago, Js1 said:

The OKC apologists cannot just enjoy their title

They have to aggressively defend their team's style of play and officiating bias instead of just enjoying it.  Life in Oklahoma really must fucking suck 

gonna eat them alive because real NBA fans know their team is full of shit, unethical players. 

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Posted (edited)

OKC isn’t unlikable for me, and SGA seems like a good dude. 
 

The hate felt comes from watching SGA and knowing his style of offense is 75% of what is wrong with the NBA and being rewarded for it at the highest level is just insulting. He didn’t create the style (see LeBron, Harden and Shaq) but he has perfected it. 
 

SGA is allowed to create contact at will against his defender but as the poster shows above, a hand on a shoulder or torso from his defender is a defensive foul. You can’t play real defense when you have no right to your space on the floor. Lebron can put his shoulder dead center of the defender’s chest and get a foul call 60% of the time of which 95% are called “blocking” fouls. 
 

Won’t even bother with big men’s right to verticality. 
 

Best team won. 

Edited by ChickenSandwich
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Posted
5 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

People just like to bitch.

Morant is wanna be gangster.  Bitch bitch bitch.  SGA is a nice and boring guy.  Bitch bitch bitch.

People don't like 3 ball all the time.  Bitch bitch bitch.  SGA has an old school mid range game.  Bitch bitch bitch.

People don't like super teams.  Bitch bitch bitch.  OKC builds through boring draft prospects.  Bitch bitch bitch.

They get good calls and bad calls, just like anyone ese.  Fouls are about even throughout all of the games.  Stars flop.  Bitch bitch bitch.

Pretty much.  I guess I have more of a balanced view being in Chicago/Miami vs OK/TX.  They're more milquetoast meh vs hated.  Yes people I speak with bitch about their fouls but nobody I've chat with really thinks that's why they won.  There's some bitching but not many people hate them from what I've seen.  Now of course in Texas you're gonna get more hate but that's to be expected.  As they mature and go through some things I'd imagine they get more actual hate and also some more respect.  I can't think of many teams that went through less adversity to win a title.  They didn't buy this team but they also didn't get their up and coming beatings on the way to a title.  I also think it's funny that OKC fans seem to care - why?  I know not all OKC fans care, but I've been surprised how many do.  

Maybe this is all boring for casuals but the NBA should be exciting for years to come - I just wish there was some more balance.  The west vs east talent gap is absolutely bonkers and this off season it's only getting worse. 

Posted

If Haliburton doesn't get injured, I think the Pacers win game 7.  It will be a huge "What-If?" for future discussions, as the Thunder were shooting horribly all game. 11/40 from 3, 22/31 from the line, only 40% from the field overall. They won the turnover battle handily though 23-8.  The Pacers offense was just awful without Hali for 3.5 quarters, and I think he would have easily made a 15 point difference over 35 minutes. Having that threat changes the way the Thunder play defense too, and he's so much better at moving the ball and keeping the offense flowing.  It's sad to see him go down to injury, and we got robbed of a great game 7 and a definitive champion, much like the Toronto/GS series. 

Posted
8 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

If Haliburton doesn't get injured, I think the Pacers win game 7.

I've been thinking about it and I think I lean towards OKC still pulling it out but there's no way to know. 

OKC was extremely deserving of the title this season. They may lose in 7 if Hali's Achilles holds but they went through a bunch of teams that weren't there by accident or missing players due to injury or what have you like you could say about some other runs (*cough* Golden State 2015).

As dysfunctional as Denver was this year Jokic is still by far the best player on the planet and that was a really good team they got through. That Minny team isn’t a fucking joke, either. 

I'm just not a fan of them or how they play and was pretty devastated the way that Haliburton went down but this is why we watch. We'll see if someone can take them out next season. A Houston/OKC WCF would be fucking epic (think the Spurs are a year away from anything like that).

Posted
10 hours ago, ztejas said:

I've been thinking about it and I think I lean towards OKC still pulling it out but there's no way to know. 

OKC was extremely deserving of the title this season. They may lose in 7 if Hali's Achilles holds but they went through a bunch of teams that weren't there by accident or missing players due to injury or what have you like you could say about some other runs (*cough* Golden State 2015).

As dysfunctional as Denver was this year Jokic is still by far the best player on the planet and that was a really good team they got through. That Minny team isn’t a fucking joke, either. 

I'm just not a fan of them or how they play and was pretty devastated the way that Haliburton went down but this is why we watch. We'll see if someone can take them out next season. A Houston/OKC WCF would be fucking epic (think the Spurs are a year away from anything like that).

There in the arena, there was a weird vibe after Halliburton went down.  Literally everyone knew he was done, even without the benefit of instant replay.  I thought they'd get blown out after that but Indy played hard and played well.  OKC was kind of taken off guard but they came out in the 3rd dialed in.  I think had he stayed healthy, it's still 50/50.  Indy was a much better team than I thought.  Two legit stars and the other guys are well rounded and pretty good.  If McConnell were 6'4", he's be a motherfucker.  Dude can play.  Indy was the best team OKC played by far.  They beat Denver and they'd beat Minny by a wide margin.  Denver was not a "great" team but Jokic is a fucking load.  They just had no one after their top 3.

Sucks about Halli, though.  Indy would be the odds on East favorite next season otherwise.

A side note, the Pacer fans were great.  I managed to go to 3 Finals games in OKC and the visiting fans were friendly, knew the game, and were generally awesome.  They also said OKC fans were the friendliest they'd encountered but one guy said "We're in the East with Boston, NY, and Philly and they're a bunch of assholes."

I was a great series between two small market teams who really care about basketball.  

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Posted
21 hours ago, gernblansten said:

Actually, each team played 23 postseason games. 

No one should be surprised the player that drives to the basket more than anyone else in the league gets to the line. 

This is hilarious. Nesmith needs to move his feet instead of putting his right hand on SGA's body and then his left hand on SGA's shooting shoulder, right? A good way to not send SGA to the line is to, oh, I don't know, maybe don't put your fucking hand on his shooting arm? 
 

Meanwhile Thunder defenders are literally holding McConnell's hand while he's out on the perimeter. And I guarantee if he tries to throw up a garbage shot to get the call that whistle isn't blowing, because he's TJ McConnell and not the MVP.

Posted
18 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Meanwhile Thunder defenders are literally holding McConnell's hand while he's out on the perimeter. And I guarantee if he tries to throw up a garbage shot to get the call that whistle isn't blowing, because he's TJ McConnell and not the MVP.

YARN | Hey if you want me to take a dump in a box, and mark ...

Thunder are never called for fouls, yet somehow they finish tied for 5th most fouls called. Dort and Caruso get away with everything, yet both are near the top of fouls per minute. Thunder shot 20 FTs per game. Thunder opponents shot 24 FTs per game. Keep fucking that chicken, though. Wait, it has to be your bull.  Anyway, hope that wasn't too aggressive for anyone. Happy health to all and see you next year. Probably see some of you in the "they're holding!!!!" football game threads, I guess.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, gernblansten said:

YARN | Hey if you want me to take a dump in a box, and mark ...

Thunder are never called for fouls, yet somehow they finish tied for 5th most fouls called. Dort and Caruso get away with everything, yet both are near the top of fouls per minute. Thunder shot 20 FTs per game. Thunder opponents shot 24 FTs per game. Keep fucking that chicken, though. Wait, it has to be your bull.  Anyway, hope that wasn't too aggressive for anyone. Happy health to all and see you next year. Probably see some of you in the "they're holding!!!!" football game threads, I guess.

Yes, everyone else, who are fans of other teams, mostly teams who don't give a shit about or have any sort of rivalry with the Thunder, are wrong, and you, the Thunder fan, are right.

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Posted
55 minutes ago, gernblansten said:

YARN | Hey if you want me to take a dump in a box, and mark ...

Thunder are never called for fouls, yet somehow they finish tied for 5th most fouls called. Dort and Caruso get away with everything, yet both are near the top of fouls per minute. Thunder shot 20 FTs per game. Thunder opponents shot 24 FTs per game. Keep fucking that chicken, though. Wait, it has to be your bull.  Anyway, hope that wasn't too aggressive for anyone. Happy health to all and see you next year. Probably see some of you in the "they're holding!!!!" football game threads, I guess.

It's the same as the WVU teams played under Huggins. If you are playing grabby and physical and fouling constantly, not everything is going to get called. You are going to get away with some maddening shit just by the sheer quantity of how much you foul. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, ITHorn said:

It's the same as the WVU teams played under Huggins. If you are playing grabby and physical and fouling constantly, not everything is going to get called. You are going to get away with some maddening shit just by the sheer quantity of how much you foul. 

I said it is a lot like OU Football - if you hold 100% of the time, the refs will not stop the game to call it every single time. 

Posted
13 hours ago, ztejas said:

I've been thinking about it and I think I lean towards OKC still pulling it out but there's no way to know. 

OKC was extremely deserving of the title this season. They may lose in 7 if Hali's Achilles holds but they went through a bunch of teams that weren't there by accident or missing players due to injury or what have you like you could say about some other runs (*cough* Golden State 2015).

As dysfunctional as Denver was this year Jokic is still by far the best player on the planet and that was a really good team they got through. That Minny team isn’t a fucking joke, either. 

I'm just not a fan of them or how they play and was pretty devastated the way that Haliburton went down but this is why we watch. We'll see if someone can take them out next season. A Houston/OKC WCF would be fucking epic (think the Spurs are a year away from anything like that).

Let me preface this by saying staying healthy is a big part of winning titles, but OKC had a ton of injury luck this postseason as well.  MPJ played with 1 arm the entire Denver series.  Gordon severely pulled his hammy late in game 6. Hali did what Hali did in game 7.  Either one of those series could have easily gone the other way if both teams were healthy.

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Posted
21 hours ago, Js1 said:

The OKC apologists cannot just enjoy their title

They have to aggressively defend their team's style of play and officiating bias instead of just enjoying it.  Life in Oklahoma really must fucking suck 

I can honestly say as an OKC fan, I fully am and will enjoy this title.  The Thunder got to OKC my sophomore year of HS and as a Texas fan with KD with the team, it was awesome being 30 mins from NBA games. Have I revisited all the dumbass podcasters who said OKC didn’t ever stand a chance at a title? Sure.  Who wouldn’t?  But I don’t defend shit.  Bitch at me all you want, I’ll listen with a title shirt on. 

 

19 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

gonna eat them alive because real NBA fans know their team is full of shit, unethical players. 

I respect your college team choice, but I could give a fuck what your opinion of NBA hoops is, seeing as you are a timberwolves fan.  Your team is paying Rudy Gobert 100 million. Couldn’t be me.  

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Let me preface this by saying staying healthy is a big part of winning titles, but OKC had a ton of injury luck this postseason as well.  MPJ played with 1 arm the entire Denver series.  Gordon severely pulled his hammy late in game 6. Hali did what Hali did in game 7.  Either one of those series could have easily gone the other way if both teams were healthy.

I don't know. I wouldn't call that "a ton".

They played the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the West. One was a little banged up - one wasn't really at all (I mean Ant obviously wasn't 100% but he isn't human).

That's more than a lot of title winners can say. 

I think they got a typical amount of luck en-route. Play that playoffs 100 times I think OKC wins 80+ of them. 

Posted
Just now, ztejas said:

I don't know. I wouldn't call that "a ton".

They played the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the West. One was a little banged up - one wasn't really at all (I mean Ant obviously wasn't 100% but he isn't human).

That's more than a lot of title winners can say. 

I think they got a typical amount of luck en-route. Play that playoffs 100 times I think OKC wins 80+ of them. 

The luck they had was staying healthy, IMO.  Their opponents had injuries and they did not.

Posted
9 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

The luck they had was staying healthy, IMO.  Their opponents had injuries and they did not.

That's probably accurate. 

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