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Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe reinstated by MLB - now eligible for HoF


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Posted

This kind of came out of left field for me. Turns out that baseball's unforgivable sin is actually forgivable...after you're dead. Personally I don't think they belong but I'm probably in the minority on that.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/45115659/pete-rose-shoeless-joe-jackson-players-reinstated-mlb

Quote

In a historic, sweeping decision, baseball commissioner Rob Manfred on Tuesday removed Pete Rose, "Shoeless" Joe Jackson and other deceased players from Major League Baseball's permanently ineligible list.

The all-time hit king and Jackson -- both longtime baseball pariahs stained by gambling, seen by MLB as the game's mortal sin -- are now eligible for election into the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, New York.

Manfred ruled that MLB's punishment of banned individuals ends upon their deaths.

 

Posted

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the BBWAA and the HOF create a one-time vote for any of the obviously blackballed players and makes a special category (wing like has been said for so many years) for their induction akin to the Era Committee.  

Rose, Shoeless Joe, Bonds, Rocket, McGwire, Palmeiro, Sosa, A-Rod, ManRam.  

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Posted

Shoeless Joe should've never been banned, anyway. He was the best player in that world series on either team. So if he was throwing games, he was doing a really shitty job at it. The league's beef with him was that he knew (or should've known) about it, and didn't tell anyone... so they basically banned him for not being a narc.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Lou_Sassle said:

Shoeless Joe should've never been banned, anyway. He was the best player in that world series on either team. So if he was throwing games, he was doing a really shitty job at it. The league's beef with him was that he knew (or should've known) about it, and didn't tell anyone... so they basically banned him for not being a narc.

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Posted
48 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

If these choads get on and Bonds and Clemens are out it would bug the hell out of me. 

That’s where I’m at. I don’t mind making the steroid guys wait a couple years as “punishment”, but the idea of never letting them in is fucking ridiculous.

AFAIK, there’s no hard evidence that Rose bet against the Reds, but he definitely bet on them some games and not others. I think it might be different in my mind if he bet on them every night without fail. The steroids guys cheated to gain an advantage and that’s bad but ultimately a way different situation IMO. 

Posted
10 hours ago, Spaulding Smails said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the BBWAA and the HOF create a one-time vote for any of the obviously blackballed players and makes a special category (wing like has been said for so many years) for their induction akin to the Era Committee.  

Rose, Shoeless Joe, Bonds, Rocket, McGwire, Palmeiro, Sosa, A-Rod, ManRam.  

Sosa has no business being in the HOF, ever, ever, ever. He is one of the guys where you can see that he was a shit ball player before the roids and when fading them. The only fucking reason he did what he did was because of his massive roiding. The rest were good long before the roiding and I can see the argument. 

19 minutes ago, tokamak said:

That’s where I’m at. I don’t mind making the steroid guys wait a couple years as “punishment”, but the idea of never letting them in is fucking ridiculous.

AFAIK, there’s no hard evidence that Rose bet against the Reds, but he definitely bet on them some games and not others. I think it might be different in my mind if he bet on them every night without fail. The steroids guys cheated to gain an advantage and that’s bad but ultimately a way different situation IMO. 

So you think a cheating gambling addict with control of actual outcomes and desperate to make money drew the line at betting against his own team? Right. 

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Posted

Just make a shitbag wing for the cheaters and be done with it.  All this moral high ground bullshit from nerds who never played the fucking sport growing up is a joke.

McGwire and Sosa saved baseball.  Clemens and Bonds were the villains for people to hate watch.

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Posted
1 hour ago, tokamak said:

That’s where I’m at. I don’t mind making the steroid guys wait a couple years as “punishment”, but the idea of never letting them in is fucking ridiculous.

AFAIK, there’s no hard evidence that Rose bet against the Reds, but he definitely bet on them some games and not others. I think it might be different in my mind if he bet on them every night without fail. The steroids guys cheated to gain an advantage and that’s bad but ultimately a way different situation IMO. 

 

Posted
5 hours ago, Lou_Sassle said:

Shoeless Joe should've never been banned, anyway. He was the best player in that world series on either team. So if he was throwing games, he was doing a really shitty job at it. The league's beef with him was that he knew (or should've known) about it, and didn't tell anyone... so they basically banned him for not being a narc.

Well, other than the fact that he testified to a grand jury that he didn't play his best when the fix was on, you make a great point.

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

First guy I remember hitting the sauce was Brian Downing, who wasn't HOF with or without it. But his power numbers skyrocketed. The juice wouldn't make you a great hitter, you have to have the skill set and hand/eye coordination for it to matter. But juice can turn warning track power into home runs. And guys that could already hit home runs started hitting balls into the next county. Someone mentioned upthread that Sosa and McGwire saved baseball which is absolutely true. And the owners and the media did absolutely nothing but encourage others. The contracts getting handed out incentiveized guys to follow suit to the point that MLB was chock full of steroid users. If you didn't you may lose your job to a guy who did. When a reporter found Andro in McGwires locker, that stuff was O'Douls compared to the Everclear he was using in private. Pitchers were doing it too, as velo could increase but more importantly recovery was helped greatly. 

 

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Edited by Dennis Taylor
Posted
1 hour ago, PGFrog said:
3 hours ago, tokamak said:

That’s where I’m at. I don’t mind making the steroid guys wait a couple years as “punishment”, but the idea of never letting them in is fucking ridiculous.

AFAIK, there’s no hard evidence that Rose bet against the Reds, but he definitely bet on them some games and not others. I think it might be different in my mind if he bet on them every night without fail. The steroids guys cheated to gain an advantage and that’s bad but ultimately a way different situation IMO. 

 

The problem I have is if Rose bet on some games but not others under the context of only "winners" his bookies had access to information that other punters (aka you and me) did not have. That's before we talk about doing anything to win then we are on the path to Tim Donaghy level shit-baggery. 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, UrbanAchiever said:

I'd keep Rose out for the statutory rape of a 14 year-old. I don't think that's getting nearly enough attention.

Mindy McCready?

Edited by petscii

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