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2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I don't think you know what you mean with these words. Part of this is just a limitation of the English language. But what does it mean to "accept the reality of another person's experience and view of the world"?

Like, actually play out the conversation, because I think you're reading into everyone's posts something that isn't there. Just because we are discussing the actual problems and solutions here in this thread, doesn't mean we are saying that the empathetic conversation also includes discussion. Those are two separate things, which I've tried to make clear to you repeatedly. 

The entire fucking thread my man. That's all you've been doing in response to my posts. 

This was Bozo yesterday:

Quote

Neither. It means to sit with them in their feelings, listen, and not argue with them or attempt to explain them away. It’s what separates empathy from sympathy.

That sounds exactly like what a blue-haired progressive might say to some chud Rogan fan. "Your feelings are valid and I want to sit here with you in them." I think we can all imagine the response that would generate from the chud and Bozo usually thinks that type of talk is very silly and counterproductive. 

I know he just read that and thought "I don't mean you say literally those words!" We get that, which is why we've all understood what he's been advocating this entire time to be that we need to indulge a chud's belief that he's been unfairly discriminated against, even when that's obviously a false belief. 

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    Still deciding whether or not to read the piece.  But from my perspective, if previous opportunities were only or primarily afforded to white males, and those opportunities suddenly (or even gradually

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3 hours ago, Iceman said:

Yeah...the answer is in the fucking tax code.  LOLz.

Every.fucking.time.

The fact that y'all think the answer is there is a huge part of the problem.

Because it is?

3 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

Because it is?

Sure. It's worked so far. These issues don't even really exist if nobody owns anything.  
 

'Those folks have too much' is not the road to solving other people's problems. 

Edited by Iceman

9 minutes ago, Iceman said:

'Those folks have too much'

It's only the billionaires I have issue with.  

Maybe let's Make the American Tax Code Great Again.  Like during the Eisenhower years.  Do you agree?

Edited by Bullneck

  • Author
30 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

That sounds exactly like what a blue-haired progressive might say to some chud Rogan fan. "Your feelings are valid and I want to sit here with you in them." I think we can all imagine the response that would generate from the chud and Bozo usually thinks that type of talk is very silly and counterproductive. 

It is counterproductive. Recognizing something and accepting it as real (ie, not an act) is not validation. But you can’t really be credible to another person if you don’t take them in good faith and try to understand where they’re coming from. That’s very different from agreeing with them. 
It’s not a great analogy but for example, I’ve spent a lot of time with homeless people. Some of them are very angry and blame a lot of people for their problems, including people who are trying to help them. The first step when you try to reach those people is just listen, nod their head, and indicate understanding. But you must not validate because that can enable their worst ideas and actually doesn’t help get to them. 

10 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

It is counterproductive. Recognizing something and accepting it as real (ie, not an act) is not validation. But you can’t really be credible to another person if you don’t take them in good faith and try to understand where they’re coming from. That’s very different from agreeing with them. 
It’s not a great analogy but for example, I’ve spent a lot of time with homeless people. Some of them are very angry and blame a lot of people for their problems, including people who are trying to help them. The first step when you try to reach those people is just listen, nod their head, and indicate understanding. But you must not validate because that can enable their worst ideas and actually doesn’t help get to them. 

and how do you think that is going to help? 

6 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

It is counterproductive. Recognizing something and accepting it as real (ie, not an act) is not validation. But you can’t really be credible to another person if you don’t take them in good faith and try to understand where they’re coming from. That’s very different from agreeing with them. 
It’s not a great analogy but for example, I’ve spent a lot of time with homeless people. Some of them are very angry and blame a lot of people for their problems, including people who are trying to help them. The first step when you try to reach those people is just listen, nod their head, and indicate understanding. But you must not validate because that can enable their worst ideas and actually doesn’t help get to them. 

Now I think you're just gas lighting us. I've said that multiple times in this thread and you've dismissed it as inappropriate. I've suggested that you're conflating discussion in this thread regarding the root cause of the problem with the discussion that would occur during the empathetic conversation. It is very clear you're doing that. It is also very clear that you're not being honest here because you very much have spent your time in this thread attempting to validate their feelings and telling us they must be right.

 

On 12/20/2025 at 6:22 PM, Dahobbs said:

If you want me to say I can empathize with his point of view even if I think his casual analysis is faulty, I can. I get why he might feel that way. I think other progressive policies attempt to address the root cause of the problem (e.g., higher progressive tax brackets, universal healthcare). 

 

On 12/21/2025 at 12:45 PM, Bozo_Casanova said:

But again, how do you respond to people who weren’t lied to, but were in fact actually excluded from consideration for jobs or promotions on the sole basis  of their race or gender? 
Multiple people on this thread, including me, have said they saw this happening.
 

Are you promising that’s some kind of shared delusion? 

 

On 12/21/2025 at 4:09 PM, wildcat09 said:

Does being open to them require playing along with imagined grievances? 

 

On 12/21/2025 at 4:19 PM, Bozo_Casanova said:

Yes, it requires you to be open to the possibility that they aren’t imagined, even if the reasons are more complex than it seems to them. If someone gets shafted, they got shafted. That should be enough for you. 

 

On 12/21/2025 at 4:26 PM, Dahobbs said:

You're confused. We are open to the possibility they aren't imagined. But I'll still require evidence. That isn't any different than how I treat any other problem. 

 

On 12/21/2025 at 4:59 PM, Bozo_Casanova said:

That seems weird. If people are saying “I got shafted,” demanding they prove it to you is a weird way to engage them. 
Do you have the luxury of alienating them? 

 

On 12/21/2025 at 5:25 PM, Dahobbs said:

To answer your question another way, you appear to be conflating two different things:

1. Engaging with them and empathizing with their problems,

2. Identifying the root cause of them and addressing. 

If I'm just providing a friendly ear, I'm obviously not going to try and antagonize someone that is upset. It is perfectly possible to provide empathy without agreeing with them. 

That first step hardly requires discussion and is mostly passive. But if you want to get to the second step, yes, you need evidence and investigation. 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, softlynow said:

They'll still vote against the Dems even if you make admissions and show empathy, but yeah, the first step is admitting the problem/failure.

image.png.56264051583f42b8ca8b5a41b15774a4.png

4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Now I think you're just gas lighting us. I've said that multiple times in this thread and you've dismissed it as inappropriate. I've suggested that you're conflating discussion in this thread regarding the root cause of the problem with the discussion that would occur during the empathetic conversation. It is very clear you're doing that. It is also very clear that you're not being honest here because you very much have spent your time in this thread attempting to validate their feelings and telling us they must be right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The whole thread is just this:

DZeJUz1.gif.9902d0dbd4fd6ff35fff74756dfcbaf8.gif

17 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

and how do you think that is going to help? 

Have you never had to deliver tought news to someone, a child, an employee, a player, that was coming from above you? Maybe you didn't completely agree with it or maybe you could see from their perspective how it wasn't fair and there was some tough breaks and bad news, but that decisions and strategy was set and the direction was final?

I think that's the posture he's saying to take. Acknowledge/address that the situation sucks for them and have some empathy but, like, there's not a lot we can do about it and it ain't going back the way it was. We can take 15 minutes to mourn it but we have to move on and build a bridge and get over it.

Or as Bezos famously said, "disagree and commit".

image.png.56264051583f42b8ca8b5a41b15774a4.png

Lemme translate. “We believed in the CONCEPT of a less racist society, but when we see that the result of that was white men losing their outsized role and presence, which mathematically means a reduction in our percentage chance of success, well…fuck that. We want that Don Draper Mad Men shit back.”
Y’all can keep running from that unavoidable conclusion, but you’ll just die tired.

The problem is all of us are finding societies disfavor. Because society is like 10 billionaires right now.

Just now, Brisketexan said:


Lemme translate. “We believed in the CONCEPT of a less racist society, but when we see that the result of that was white men losing their outsized role and presence, which mathematically means a reduction in our percentage chance of success, well…fuck that. We want that Don Draper Mad Men shit back.”
Y’all can keep running from that unavoidable conclusion, but you’ll just die tired.

Reminds me so much of this lol

r/fuckcars - Are y'all the NIMBYs?

1 minute ago, G650 said:

The problem is all of us are finding societies disfavor. Because society is like 10 billionaires right now.

Preach.

16 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

Have you never had to deliver tought news to someone, a child, an employee, a player, that was coming from above you? Maybe you didn't completely agree with it or maybe you could see from their perspective how it wasn't fair and there was some tough breaks and bad news, but that decisions and strategy was set and the direction was final?

I think that's the posture he's saying to take. Acknowledge/address that the situation sucks for them and have some empathy but, like, there's not a lot we can do about it and it ain't going back the way it was. We can take 15 minutes to mourn it but we have to move on and build a bridge and get over it.

Or as Bezos famously said, "disagree and commit".

I spent my whole professional career doing that so yes. The question is what is that going to do to fix the situation? Is that going to bring them back to our side? If the answer is no, what will it take to bring them back to our side? 

2 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I spent my whole professional career doing that so yes. The question is what is that going to do to fix the situation? Is that going to bring them back to our side? If the answer is no, what will it take to bring them back to our side? 

I think the argument is, much like it does in your whole professional career, it helps people to get onboard with the new reality. Whereas if you were to take a more antagonstic tone of the just deal with it and glossing over the personal impact with a lack of implied care or empathy, it invites conflict.

The point is to minimize conflict.

4 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I spent my whole professional career doing that so yes. The question is what is that going to do to fix the situation? Is that going to bring them back to our side? If the answer is no, what will it take to bring them back to our side? 

Appeal to the ludicrous unfairness of how it's going right now.

14 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

I think the argument is, much like it does in your whole professional career, it helps people to get onboard with the new reality. Whereas if you were to take a more antagonstic tone of the just deal with it and glossing over the personal impact with a lack of implied care or empathy, it invites conflict.

The point is to minimize conflict.

That does nothing to solve the problem, which is the other side is giving them someone to blame for their perceived slights and promising to eradicate the problem. 

48 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

image.png.56264051583f42b8ca8b5a41b15774a4.png

Thanks for pointing out one of the dumber parts of the essay where the author reveals he thought the world was a race- and gender-blind meritocracy up until 2014.

3 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Thanks for pointing out one of the dumber parts of the essay where the author reveals he thought the world was a race- and gender-blind meritocracy up until 2014.

That was unintentionally funny, too, but the main call out there was showing the author, in his own words, is trying to say he and his ilk are still liberals.

  • Author
20 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

The question is what is that going to do to fix the situation? Is that going to bring them back to our side?

I think it will bring back some of the ones we want, and also probably help stop the bleeding. 
I think we are talking about a lot of things here:

1) younger people taking the blame and paying a social/economic price for the actions/inactions of older people, mainly boomers (an immense subject matter)

2) How affluent white progressives have been unaware of, or in some cases actively ignored or even celebrated the negative consequences to a subset of younger people

3) how MAGA enlisted resentment about that and channeled that towards their own ends

4)  what it takes for progressives to reestablish or maintain credibility with middle and working class millennials. 
 

Paying attention to them and indicating that their struggles are understood isn’t good enough by itself to make a political difference, but I do think it’s required for any sort of policy or plan or candidates to resonate. It’s the whole podcast thing- Kamala Harris should have done Theo Von and flown to Austin to do Rogan and  not done anything special other than be herself as honestly as she could and to push back as much as she wanted. The point of doing those venues would have been to signal to their audiences that they matter. 

This feels like a discussion better had in-person over several beers and salty snacks. 

12 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

That does nothing to solve the problem, which is the other side is giving them someone to blame for their perceived slights and promising to eradicate the problem. 

 

We can literally do that too. In fact, we have an easier job now that we have a bunch of cartoon villains broadcasting every day how insanely shitty they are.

  • Author
6 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Thanks for pointing out one of the dumber parts of the essay where the author reveals he thought the world was a race- and gender-blind meritocracy up until 2014.

Yes, that was super dumb. It’s funny, I run into that a lot with younger millennials. They seem to labor under the impression that there was some golden age in the recent past when things were fair. I have no idea where it comes from. 

12 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

That does nothing to solve the problem, which is the other side is giving them someone to blame for their perceived slights and promising to eradicate the problem. 

I think the argument is that for some of these aggrieved white males, sure, they are lost to the other side making promisses, etc.

But there are some who can be reasoned with and who can come around from the initial bloody nose with a little empathy and pep talk, who can be saved from the dark side.

You seem to think there is not a messy middle ground where perhaps slighted people can feel safe in calling out a wound, maybe feeling sorry for themselves for a minute or two, but then taking a step back and weighing everything out on the balance and making a decision to move forward as non (or less) aggrieved. You seem to think all these white guys who carp about the changes they are facing are either all lost causes or actually have no right to those feelings. At least that's what it seems like based on your responses.

34 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

They seem to labor under the impression that there was some golden age in the recent past when things were fair. I have no idea where it comes from. 

1) They look around, and see how utterly fucky and fucked everything is.

2) They presume "surely things weren't ALWAYS this fucked.  Surely there must have been a period when things were fair and colorblind and merit-based.  Surely things weren't this shitty."

Women and minorities, upon hearing point 2:

hq720.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEhCK4FEIIDSFryq4qpAx

And....

die-hard-john-mc-clane.gif

 

Much like white people have started to realize that cops are by and large abusive, shitty liars who are crooked and have contempt for the rule of law, and minorities have the exact same responses as I noted above.

"Powerful people will act corruptly and purposefully divide you so they can completely fuck you over."  Yeah, that's always been the fucking case, but you fucking dumbasses thought you were on "team Powerful People" when instead you were ALWAYS on "team Get Fucked."

  • Popular Post
7 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

I think the argument is that for some of these aggrieved white males, sure, they are lost to the other side making promisses, etc.

But there are some who can be reasoned with and who can come around from the initial bloody nose with a little empathy and pep talk, who can be saved from the dark side.

You seem to think there is not a messy middle ground where perhaps slighted people can feel safe in calling out a wound, maybe feeling sorry for themselves for a minute or two, but then taking a step back and weighing everything out on the balance and making a decision to move forward as non (or less) aggrieved. You seem to think all these white guys who carp about the changes they are facing are either all lost causes or actually have no right to those feelings. At least that's what it seems like based on your responses.

I am trying to lead you to where you realize that just patting someone on the back and saying "sorry for your luck" isn't going to bring voters back to your side. I don't understand why you guys are acting like these situations are new. The right has been running the same playbook and it's worked against 3 generations of white folks for the last 45 years. 

F rom 1980-1992The Dems were doing exactly what you are asking them to do now. They were listening to the little guy and his life problems. Meanwhile Reagan and Bush were talking about cutting social programs and being tough on blacks because Welfare Queens and Willy Horton. These were the voting maps in those three terms

Screenshot(39).thumb.png.1855a08f46ecfa2c16bb23cb112054c5.png

Screenshot(40).thumb.png.61d68ee1bd55b3eb5d26e743d1496466.png

 

 

Screenshot(41).thumb.png.984cd2d5a8e5c9ecf05413dd7958cc27.png

Completely Washed!!

Its infuriating to watch you guys do this. You wanna believe so bad that people aren't what they are showing you they are. You ignore voting trends. You ignore what the country has been telling you for generations, and that is this. People just don't want anyone that doesn't look like them to have shit, and refuse to believe that someone, who doesn't look like them that DOES have shit, came about it honestly. That's why we are willing to cut programs that are helpful to us. That's why we don't want universal healthcare. That's why the blackest state in the union, Mississippi, is also the poorest. That's why we hate DEI programs. 

These people aren't mad about their slot in life. They are mad that they are where they are and someone *insert ethnicity* got over undeservedly. That's why they are so easily manipulated. If you shipped out all the dirty ethnic people the country would vote for universal healthcare the next day. 

I know this because I see it every day. Everytime someone asks me where I went to school there is a pause and facial expression when I say Texas. The next question is always what sport did I play. The faces they make hopping out of our clean A6 at the tailgate with my wife on my arm. I told the story of making my daughter cut grass when she was 13 because life lessons, only to be asked how much I charge for landscaping by a couple yoga pants wearing, walker-bys. The look they gave when I told them it was my house. Lol. Every ethnic person with even a modicum of success has been met with these same circumstances and understands what they mean, and that is why the Jacob Savage's that voted for Trump are pissed. Those people in Ohio talking shit about the Haitians driving by in the Lexus is a prime example of that.

The rest of us have been getting the shaft our entire life too, but we are smart enough to understand it's not the fault of women and immigrants with HB1 visas. You have to already be the kind of person thinking what the right is saying to take the bate on that shit imo. You already have an idea and here comes a politician just reinforcing what you already feel. I wish I could believe those dudes just needed some empathy, but history has told me different. 

gotdamn Minnesota is hardcore lol

3 hours ago, YChang said:

This feels like a discussion better had in-person over several beers and salty snacks. 

This is the most boring and frustrating thread on the site since that stupid ass Faith Keepers thread.

39 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I wish I could believe those dudes just needed some empathy, but history has told me different. 

And....that's the part that Bozo etc. don't get.

At the first sign of discomfort -- real or imagined, it doesn't matter, so your "empathy" and acknowledgement doesn't make a shit -- white america immediately looks for "others" to sacrifice into a volcano, throw under a bus, deport, imprison, whatever it takes.

23 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

This is the most boring and frustrating thread on the site since that stupid ass Faith Keepers thread.

You’re quite welcome to ignore it or try to make it better, kemosabe.  

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

I am trying to lead you to where you realize that just patting someone on the back and saying "sorry for your luck" isn't going to bring voters back to your side. I don't understand why you guys are acting like these situations are new. The right has been running the same playbook and it's worked against 3 generations of white folks for the last 45 years. 

F rom 1980-1992The Dems were doing exactly what you are asking them to do now. They were listening to the little guy and his life problems. Meanwhile Reagan and Bush were talking about cutting social programs and being tough on blacks because Welfare Queens and Willy Horton. These were the voting maps in those three terms

Screenshot(39).thumb.png.1855a08f46ecfa2c16bb23cb112054c5.png

Screenshot(40).thumb.png.61d68ee1bd55b3eb5d26e743d1496466.png

 

 

Screenshot(41).thumb.png.984cd2d5a8e5c9ecf05413dd7958cc27.png

Completely Washed!!

Its infuriating to watch you guys do this. You wanna believe so bad that people aren't what they are showing you they are. You ignore voting trends. You ignore what the country has been telling you for generations, and that is this. People just don't want anyone that doesn't look like them to have shit, and refuse to believe that someone, who doesn't look like them that DOES have shit, came about it honestly. That's why we are willing to cut programs that are helpful to us. That's why we don't want universal healthcare. That's why the blackest state in the union, Mississippi, is also the poorest. That's why we hate DEI programs. 

These people aren't mad about their slot in life. They are mad that they are where they are and someone *insert ethnicity* got over undeservedly. That's why they are so easily manipulated. If you shipped out all the dirty ethnic people the country would vote for universal healthcare the next day. 

I know this because I see it every day. Everytime someone asks me where I went to school there is a pause and facial expression when I say Texas. The next question is always what sport did I play. The faces they make hopping out of our clean A6 at the tailgate with my wife on my arm. I told the story of making my daughter cut grass when she was 13 because life lessons, only to be asked how much I charge for landscaping by a couple yoga pants wearing, walker-bys. The look they gave when I told them it was my house. Lol. Every ethnic person with even a modicum of success has been met with these same circumstances and understands what they mean, and that is why the Jacob Savage's that voted for Trump are pissed. Those people in Ohio talking shit about the Haitians driving by in the Lexus is a prime example of that.

The rest of us have been getting the shaft our entire life too, but we are smart enough to understand it's not the fault of women and immigrants with HB1 visas. You have to already be the kind of person thinking what the right is saying to take the bate on that shit imo. You already have an idea and here comes a politician just reinforcing what you already feel. I wish I could believe those dudes just needed some empathy, but history has told me different. 

 

The problem with this, and several others, is you are looking at normal times elections where the vast majority of the country was fat and happy. You need to go back to the robber barons and Teddy Roosevelt's dismantling of them to really see a parallel with what is possible now. I'm not saying you are gonna make a bunch of whites not racist, but if you give them the chance to take down billionaires they will make common cause with you. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

23 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

At the first sign of discomfort

Yes! But the discomfort is our ally right now.

48 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

The problem with this, and several others, is you are looking at normal times elections where the vast majority of the country was fat and happy. You need to go back to the robber barons and Teddy Roosevelt's dismantling of them to really see a parallel with what is possible now. I'm not saying you are gonna make a bunch of whites not racist, but if you give them the chance to take down billionaires they will make common cause with you. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Yes! But the discomfort is our ally right now.

There is a reason people who look and talk and live like me are enjoying Mamdani in NYC. 

2 hours ago, LCHorn said:

You’re quite welcome to ignore it or try to make it better, kemosabe.  

No.

Y'all need to make it better.  You are here to entertain me and I am not being sufficiently entertained.

1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

No.

Y'all need to make it better.  You are here to entertain me and I am not being sufficiently entertained.

Bozo Casanova = Anastasis

4 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

This is the most boring and frustrating thread on the site since that stupid ass Faith Keepers thread.

Do you mean "Promise Keepers?"  Or is there a new bullshit group called Faith Keepers?  God I hope not.

*************************

Cool Story Alert: I was driving through Dallas once in the 1990s and saw a billboard with some real cowboys riding hard across the plains.  The text said "Promise Keepers .  . . Storming the Gates."  

No idea which gates.  Gates of Hell, maybe.  What other gates are there?  Gates of the Cul-de-Sac in Plano?  Welp, whatever gates these were, they were gettin' stormed.

**************************

Bill McCartney founded Promise Keepers.  Yay!!

colorado.thumb.webp.396d8773e6189c203dfc2f9fdca531d4.webp

 

Edited by Bullneck

  • 2 weeks later...

I still don't understand how anyone could see the Revolutionary War documentary and not realize that we've always been assholes, and always will be.

The people who lead this country are mostly men, and men are predisposed to fuck up everything that moves. The only reason we can have nice things in society is when men subvert nearly all of their natural tendencies to practice at least some basic norms so that society doesn't blow up.

And every once in a while we let some particular assholes blow it up.

Not to pick on any particular folks but since Alexander, those assholes have mostly been white men.*

(*Or in the present age, a few mexicans channeling their inner Spaniards.)

  • Author
On 12/23/2025 at 5:35 PM, Brisketexan said:

And....that's the part that Bozo etc. don't get.

At the first sign of discomfort -- real or imagined, it doesn't matter, so your "empathy" and acknowledgement doesn't make a shit -- white america immediately looks for "others" to sacrifice into a volcano, throw under a bus, deport, imprison, whatever it takes.

No, I get it. But I also happen to believe that

1) the future is malleable

2) people are basically the same all over and

3) revolutions are very often the product of the bourgeoisie and the proletariat uniting around destroying the common sources of their discontent.

if you’ve lost your stomach for the fight that’s unfortunate. Most of the people on here never had it to begin with which is why they are on here bitching instead of using this forum for what it’s good for, which is sharpening tools.

But where you and I really differ is that where you (and @Thatguy and most affluent progressives) see only irredeemable evil, I also see unmet demand and a math problem.

We don’t need to convince a majority of people who have made up their minds to change. We only need to show up so the bad guys don’t win by default and the law of large numbers will do the rest.

So welcome to 2026, I hope you’ve got the victimhood and doomerism out of your system. It’s an election year and there’s a Republic to save.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova

13 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No, I get it. But I also happen to believe that

1) the future is malleable

2) people are basically the same all over and

3) revolutions are very often the product of the bourgeoisie and the proletariat uniting around destroying the common sources of their discontent.

if you’ve lost your stomach for the fight that’s unfortunate. Most of the people on here never had it to begin with which is why they are on here bitching instead of using this forum for what it’s good for, which is sharpening tools.

But where you and I really differ is that where you (and @Thatguy and most affluent progressives) see only irredeemable evil, I also see unmet demand and a math problem.

We don’t need to convince a majority of people who have made up their minds to change. We only need to show up so the bad guys don’t win by default and the law of large numbers will do the rest.

So welcome to 2026, I hope you’ve got the victimhood and doomerism out of your system. It’s an election year and there’s a Republic to save.

I suggest you don't try to go about that by telling disaffected white men that the Republicans are right about the Democrats ruining their lives.

30 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I suggest you don't try to go about that by telling disaffected white men that the Republicans are right about the Democrats ruining their lives.

For real, bozo is talking out of both sides of his mouth here.

"Progressives drove away the masses with their over eager progressivism"

"Progressives just need to keep doing the same thing, they'll totally get different results"

Really strange to see people so eager to denigrate any and every non white man as the reason for all of their problems, rather than just calling out the class war we all are enjoying.

On 12/23/2025 at 5:57 PM, G650 said:

 

The problem with this, and several others, is you are looking at normal times elections where the vast majority of the country was fat and happy. You need to go back to the robber barons and Teddy Roosevelt's dismantling of them to really see a parallel with what is possible now. I'm not saying you are gonna make a bunch of whites not racist, but if you give them the chance to take down billionaires they will make common cause with you. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Yes! But the discomfort is our ally right now.

Coming out of the stagflation '70s was rightly called malaise. Sure, in historical terms, Americans had it pretty good, but boomers wanted to get paid in the '80s, and older generations did feel like things were in decline. Dems were complacent, but I'm not sure they had a defense against the spell voodoo economics was casting.

  • Author
1 hour ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I still don't understand how anyone could see the Revolutionary War documentary and not realize that we've always been assholes, and always will be.

The people who lead this country are mostly men, and men are predisposed to fuck up everything that moves. The only reason we can have nice things in society is when men subvert nearly all of their natural tendencies to practice at least some basic norms so that society doesn't blow up.

And every once in a while we let some particular assholes blow it up.

Not to pick on any particular folks but since Alexander, those assholes have mostly been white men.*

(*Or in the present age, a few mexicans channeling their inner Spaniards.)

Everyone is assholes. The more power a group has the more opportunity they have to be assholes to other groups. We shouldn’t delude ourselves otherwise. The enemy is entrenched power coalitions, at all times in all ways.

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

I suggest you don't try to go about that by telling disaffected white men that the Republicans are right about the Democrats ruining their lives.

What on earth are you talking about? We’ve been on the same board for 20 years and what side been saying Democrats in Texas should say is, essentially

1) you DID get fucked

2) Republicans have been in charge

Ergo

3) Republicans fucked you

That’s the entire premise here. Simply stop arguing with people who feel they got shafted and redirect their misdirected anger.

I have NEVER advocated that Democrats apologize and SPECIFICALLY criticized Beto for doing that very thing.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova

  • Author
1 hour ago, Captainant said:

or real, bozo is talking out of both sides of his mouth here.

"Progressives drove away the masses with their over eager progressivism"

"Progressives just need to keep doing the same thing, they'll totally get different results"

No, but I guess I see what you mean when you dont read posts in good faith and make shit up instead.

Seriously the gun thread engages more honestly when I tell them they are stupid pussies for opposing red flag laws and trusting the NRA.

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Everyone is assholes. The more power a group has the more opportunity they have to be assholes to other groups. We shouldn’t delude ourselves otherwise. The enemy is entrenched power coalitions, at all times in all ways.

What on earth are you talking about? We’ve been on the same board for 20 years and what side been saying Democrats in Texas should say is, essentially

1) you DID get fucked

2) Republicans have been in charge

Ergo

3) Republicans fucked you

That’s the entire premise here. Simply stop arguing with people who feel they got shafted and redirect their misdirected anger.

I have NEVER advocated that Democrats apologize and SPECIFICALLY criticized Beto for doing that very thing.

This entire thread is basically this conversation:

Us: "We should say something like, 'yes you got screwed, but it wasn't because of minorities, it was by billionaire Republicans."

You: "No, you can't tell them that they weren't screwed over because of minorities! You have to flatter their false beliefs that they were screwed over because of minorities, but then tell them 'but maybe also it was billionaire Republicans.'"

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