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Media Bias Thread


Hugo Stiglitz

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Wasn't it Trump's that said (after his inheritance kicked in), "The first 60 million is always the hardest"?   was he talking about dollars or people?  

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On 8/19/2019 at 1:24 PM, Captainant said:

Youtube, surly, reddit, et al, are public forums - meaning their main content isn't generated by the platform itself, but by the users and participants.

NYT, Fox, WaPo, et al, are publishers - meaning their main content IS generated by the platform and is representative of their views and opinions.

Prior to the CDA having a TOS and moderators made you a publisher. But now you can't hold Surly responsible for content posted by the assholes here (there are some exceptions for illegal content and copyrighted material). Further, "good faith" moderation is protected by law against discriination suits. 

Where it gets dicey is that YouTube plays both sides.  They claim to need a publisher's editorial judgement in determining the monetization of videos, but want their content to be free from the liabilities of a publisher.

The core question is if/how you legally function when you are both publisher and platform at the same time.

Edited by JBJ
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26 minutes ago, elfenix said:

can you explain this a little more and how it interacts with section 230

YouTube wants the section 230 protections even when acting as a publisher because they publish within a platform.  Does that make sense?

 

Think of it this way: the NYT pays its authors to post articles on a general message board.  These articles aren't published otherwise, suppose they didn't make the editorial cut.  Is NYTimes publishing these articles, or is this content to be treated just posted like any other random poster on the otherwise open platform?

Now say they own that platform and "bump down" rival articles from The NewYorker authors.  Should Section 203 protect this as a function of moderation?

Edited by JBJ
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2 hours ago, JBJ said:

Where it gets dicey is that YouTube plays both sides.  They claim to need a publisher's editorial judgement in determining the monetization of videos, but want their content to be free from the liabilities of a publisher.

But the key difference is that YT very rarely outright removes video, they more typically they opt to remove monetization from videos but leave them up for viewing, free of charge to the uploader. The only instances of them removing content is when it is a genuine violation of law or their platform rules such as extreme gore, CP, vile shit like that. 

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22 minutes ago, Captainant said:

But the key difference is that YT very rarely outright removes video, they more typically they opt to remove monetization from videos but leave them up for viewing, free of charge to the uploader. The only instances of them removing content is when it is a genuine violation of law or their platform rules such as extreme gore, CP, vile shit like that. 

Monetization is the problem.  If they weren't selective with monetization only filtering, they are clearly a platform.  If monetization was a hard filter, they are a publisher.

YouTube occupies a space between.

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Just now, JBJ said:

Monetization is the problem.  If they weren't selective with monetization only filtering, they are clearly a platform.  If monetization was a hard filter, they are a publisher.

YouTube occupies a space between.

What do you mean by that? Youtube spends money on each and every video it hosts on its platform. They don't restrict uploads in any meaningful way (banned people can easily just make a new account), and the monetization is a value-add (not a guarantee) to the content producers. There's no rules or policy to stop those content producers from selling ads themselves and embedding them into their own videos rather than using their ad service, which is a trend we've been seeing more since youtube has gotten more fucky about their monetization.

Youtube is a platform in my view, and they haven't been acting as a publisher aside from their specifically individually produced content, which is clearly marked as a "youtube original" 

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YouTube wants the section 230 protections even when acting as a publisher because they publish within a platform.  Does that make sense?
 
Think of it this way: the NYT pays its authors to post articles on a general message board.  These articles aren't published otherwise, suppose they didn't make the editorial cut.  Is NYTimes publishing these articles, or is this content to be treated just posted like any other random poster on the otherwise open platform?
Now say they own that platform and "bump down" rival articles from The NewYorker authors.  Should Section 203 protect this as a function of moderation?
Do you have a filing where YouTube claims to need the discretion of a publisher?
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22 minutes ago, elfenix said:

Do you have a filing where YouTube claims to need the discretion of a publisher?

Couldn't find the original motion to dismiss, but in the reply to support:

In the summary: "YouTube is a private publishing service...its editorial decisions are protected by the First Amendment." 

From Section I: "...[PragerU claims that YouTube] by holding itself out at as a neutral platform, a publisher would thereby lose its right to make editorial judgements.... That YouTube has a general commitment to promoting user expression (and disclaims legal responsibility for its users' content) does not change that.  YouTube's support for free speech....cannot strip YouTube of its First Amendment protection for those editorial judgements."

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24 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Couldn't find the original motion to dismiss, but in the reply to support:

In the summary: "YouTube is a private publishing service...its editorial decisions are protected by the First Amendment." 

From Section I: "...[PragerU claims that YouTube] by holding itself out at as a neutral platform, a publisher would thereby lose its right to make editorial judgements.... That YouTube has a general commitment to promoting user expression (and disclaims legal responsibility for its users' content) does not change that.  YouTube's support for free speech....cannot strip YouTube of its First Amendment protection for those editorial judgements."

Is that PragerU, the plaintiff against youtube, claiming that youtube is a publisher? Or is that YT claiming that they're a publisher? It's not super clear without the original source lol

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17 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Is that PragerU, the plaintiff against youtube, claiming that youtube is a publisher? Or is that YT claiming that they're a publisher? It's not super clear without the original source lol

They both argue that YouTube is both. 

Prager argues that YouTube can't be both.

YouTube argues that they can be both.

 

Legally, I think YouTube is mostly correct, but that they should lose Section 230 protection for videos that they monetize.  However, for platforms that broadly monetize (I think Twitch works this way), they would keep Section 230 status.

Edited by JBJ
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1 minute ago, JBJ said:

They both argue that YouTube is both. 

Prager argues that YouTube can't be both.

YouTube argues that they can be both.

 

Legally, I think YouTube is mostly correct, but that they should lose Section 230 protection for videos that they monetize.

i haven't read them so i don't know if this analysis is correct, but youtube cites a couple cases that disagree with that:

Quote

YouTube’s choices about whether to classify videos as “mature” or otherwise sensitive, and whether ads should be displayed alongside a given video, all fall squarely within the functions protected under Section 230. See Zeran, 129 F.3d at 330; Batzel, 333 F.3d at 1028-29. Plaintiff’s effort to hold YouTube liable for making those decisions is categorically forbidden by Section 230(c)(1).

(note the trial court did not cite either of those cases in its decision)

Edited by elfenix
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The media has become gossip, clickbait and punditry. This threatens democracy. - Bernie Sanders

Quote

One reason we do not have enough real journalism in America right now is because many outlets are being gutted by the same forces of greed that are pillaging our economy.

For example, two Silicon Valley corporations—Facebook and Google—control 60 percent of the entire digital advertising market. They have used monopolistic control to siphon off advertising revenues from news organizations. A recent study by the News Media Alliance, a trade organization, found that in 2018, as newspaper revenues declined, Google made $4.7 billion off reporting that Google did not pay for.

He goes on to outline his administration's policy goals for restoring the Fourth Estate.

- Actively oppose massive media mergers
- Require disclosure of potential layoffs in mergers
- Employees given the opportunity to purchase media outlets
- Progressive FCC leadership
- Boost unionization efforts in media
- Taxing targeted ads (one of the way Google basically steals revenue from journalists)

Edited by bad_teammate
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So you post an image with an image so pixelated that I'm having flashbacks to the late 90s. Then you also give a link to the story, where one would presumably assume said image is discussed. However, the link provides zero new context or information about the issue, nor does it provide even a link to the image that I can find.

2/10 post, would not read again

Edited by Chult86
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1 hour ago, EMAWesome said:

To be fair if the media have not figured out they are discredited the first 2,000 times they have fallen for this since 2017 why would they start now?  MSNBC=Most Stuff Not Basically Confirmed (or Most Stuff Not Believably Credible take your pick)

To be fair, you're a moron if you think that post is true.  

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The point isn't even about that post.  The point is about O'Donnell running with the story to begin with.  He wouldn't have ran it without getting the blessing of MSNBC management. They are the gatekeepers to everything they put on the air.  I'm pretty sure the reason O'Donnell didn't " go through the rigorous verification and standards process here at MSNBC before repeating what I heard from my source" was because he didn't know MSNBC had any rigorous verification and standards process to begin with.  By the way if you listen to the "apology" what O'Donnell is saying is "Some guy who hasn't seen the actual documents told me this and even though we can not confirm this you can't prove it didn't happen either."  A dishonest press is just as bad as dishonest politicians.

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26 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

The point isn't even about that post.  The point is about O'Donnell running with the story to begin with.  He wouldn't have ran it without getting the blessing of MSNBC management. They are the gatekeepers to everything they put on the air.  I'm pretty sure the reason O'Donnell didn't " go through the rigorous verification and standards process here at MSNBC before repeating what I heard from my source" was because he didn't know MSNBC had any rigorous verification and standards process to begin with.  By the way if you listen to the "apology" what O'Donnell is saying is "Some guy who hasn't seen the actual documents told me this and even though we can not confirm this you can't prove it didn't happen either."  A dishonest press is just as bad as dishonest politicians.

 

How does the "apology" compare to any of Trumps' or from Fox "news"?  

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10 hours ago, EMAWesome said:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/august_2019/voters_don_t_trust_political_news_say_most_reporters_want_to_stop_trump

 

54% do not trust the political news they are getting.  51% believe the media is attempting to block Trump from carrying out his political agenda instead of reporting news.

But rasmussen is biased

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/which-pollsters-to-trust-in-2018/

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/405965-pollster-rasmussen-research-has-a-pro-gop-bias

 

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NYT columnist Bret Stephens tried to get a professor fired because the professor called him a bedbug

He got owned online so hard that he quit Twitter.

Then he wrote an article about how being called a "bedbug" basically makes him like the Holocaust victim.

Now a sitting US Senator from Hawaii is mocking him

 

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43 minutes ago, EMAWesome said:

Constitutional scholar Chris Hayes--"The Electoral College would be unconstitutional ‘if it wasn’t specifically in the Constitution’."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/msnbc-host-electoral-college-would-be-unconstitutional-if-it-wasnt-specifically-in-the-constitution

The right should be familiar with stuff like this. See: birthright citizenship.

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On 8/29/2019 at 7:46 PM, EMAWesome said:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/august_2019/voters_don_t_trust_political_news_say_most_reporters_want_to_stop_trump

 

54% do not trust the political news they are getting.  51% believe the media is attempting to block Trump from carrying out his political agenda instead of reporting news.

100% shouldn't trust anything the Administration is saying and doing since they are the least transparent of all.

 

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On 9/1/2019 at 9:59 AM, EMAWesome said:

Constitutional scholar Chris Hayes--"The Electoral College would be unconstitutional ‘if it wasn’t specifically in the Constitution’."

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/msnbc-host-electoral-college-would-be-unconstitutional-if-it-wasnt-specifically-in-the-constitution

How is this a news bias?

 

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On 8/29/2019 at 7:46 PM, EMAWesome said:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/august_2019/voters_don_t_trust_political_news_say_most_reporters_want_to_stop_trump

 

54% do not trust the political news they are getting.  51% believe the media is attempting to block Trump from carrying out his political agenda instead of reporting news.

Blaming the media for his failure is very Trumpy.

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6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Blaming the media for his failure is very Trumpy.

certainly helps explain Trump’s 96% approval rating among Republicans (and the other 4% will still vote for him, so 100% in reality) - blaming others for one’s own failures and a complete lack of accountability is very, very Republican.  

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58 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Fantstic Shapiro rant. Didn't know the dude was a comedian.

 

 

I made it about 53 seconds until I couldn't listen to his nasally prepubescent voice any longer. 

Yeah, sorry, Ben, nobody is calling people Nazis and white supremacists because they disagree with Nancy Pelosi's tax policy.  I think it has something to do with kids being separated from their parents, ,thrown in cages, not given water or flu shots, and sent home to die while most on the right shrug their shoulders.  It MIGHT have something to do with the fact that you all lost your collective fucking minds for 8 years when the president had the wrong color skin.  And you don't all agree that "Nazis are bad", because when a group of white people marched chanting "Jews will not replace us" and ran over a counter protester, or when a white guy went into a Walmart in El Paso to shoot up a bunch of Mexican families, you all shrugged your shoulders and said "good people on both sides" or "must have been the video games, not the president's rhetoric."   

I'm sure the rest of the video was filled with equally disingenuous bullshit and Shapiro's trademarked victim complex, but I don't have the patience.

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8 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

Indeed. I was so "triggered" by 9/11 and the deaths of 3,000 of my fellow Americans that I joined the Army. Any more 9/11 jokes you want to share with the audience?

Was what I said a joke? You are triggered by a description of events from a paper. Were you triggered by Trump wanting to invite the Taliban to Camp David, and if so, can you show where you posted your anger about it because I would assume Trumps actions are far more egregious. 

Edited by SmokeyTheBear
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https://bospar.com/resources/bospar-study-nearly-all-americans-are-troubled-by-the-current-state-of-the-media/

Bospar Study: Nearly All Americans Are Troubled by the Current State of the Media

Americans believe ethics in journalism will be worse during the 2020 presidential campaign

SAN FRANCISCO – SEPTEMBER 9, 2019 – Bospar, the boutique PR firm that puts tech companies on the map, has released the results of its Ethics in Media survey. The new data comes as Bospar hosts its Ethics in Media panel with the San Francisco Chapter of the Public Relations Society of America and the San Francisco Press Club on Sept. 19 at 6 p.m. The event will take place at Werqwise on 149 New Montgomery St. in San Francisco. 

ABC Veteran anchor Cheryl Jennings will moderate the discussion. Panelists include former Wall Street Journal reporter and Message Lab CEO Ben Worthen and former KRON Executive Producer and Bospar Principal Curtis Sparrer.

Bospar and Propeller Insights surveyed 1,010 American adults and discovered that more than 95% are troubled by the current state of media. The reasons for their concern include the following:

  1. Reports on fake news – 53%
  2. Reporting gossip – 49%
  3. Lying spokespeople – 48%
  4. Celebrity opinions – 36%
  5. Left-wing agendas – 34%
  6. Gotcha journalism – 33%
  7. Right-wing agendas – 32%
  8. Puff pieces in exchange for access to other important interviews – 31%
  9. Blind items being reported in the news – 30%
  10. Hit pieces – 21%
  11. Rise of independent contributors versus on-staff media – 14%

And an overwhelming majority (67%) believe ethics in journalism will be worse during the 2020 presidential campaign. When asked about the impact unethical journalism has on the country, Americans cited four chief problems:

  • 64%: It creates division and partisanship
  • 63%: It fuels inaccuracies
  • 60%: It incites hate
  • 57%: It creates fear

“If ever there was a time for an in-depth discussion about ethics in the media, it’s now,” said James Ennis Kirkland, president of the San Francisco Press Club.

The survey group considered local print and online journalists as the most ethical (40%), followed by local TV reporters and anchors (23%) and national print and online journalists (22%). Only 15% of Americans said national TV anchors and reporters were the most ethical.

“When you look at perceptions of ethics in journalism, based on political affiliation, those aligned with the Democratic Party are significantly more likely to consider national journalists/anchors/reporters ethical, when compared to those aligned with the Republican Party or other minor parties,” said Gabrielle Ayala, Principal of Propeller Insights. “This is no surprise, given the current battles being waged by all groups in politics and the media to control the narrative and position themselves as the bearers of truth.”

When it came to ranking PR and marketing people by ethics, individuals in those roles in health services came on top (23%), followed by technology (17%), professional services (16%), food and beverage (9%), consumer/retail (6%), and entertainment (6%).

Interestingly, Americans’ ethical expectations of journalism mirrored their expectations of PR and marketing. Slightly more than 43% said journalism is less ethical than in the past, while 37% said ethics hasn’t changed recently, and 20% said it’s more ethical than in the past. When asked about PR and marketing, the percentages were nearly the same: 42% said that the current state of ethics in PR and marketing is less ethical than in the past, while 39% said ethics hasn’t changed recently, and 19% said it’s more ethical than in the past.

“I think the reason Americans have similar ethical viewpoints of journalism and PR is that they are increasingly seeing them intertwined,” said Sparrer. “However, an overwhelming percentage of Americans–86%–expect PR and marketing people to be ethical. Americans expect PR and marketing professionals to be open and honest with the media and clients.”

John McCartney, president of the PRSA San Francisco Bay Area Chapter, added, “Obviously, the media plays an important role in our country. However, the media continues to be scrutinized by those in government and by almost everyone else. We look forward to a spirited discussion on the current state of ethics in media. We also thank Bospar and Werqwise for their involvement with this program.”

About Propeller Insights

Propeller Insights is a full-service market research firm based in Los Angeles. Using quantitative and qualitative methodologies to measure and analyze marketplace and consumer opinions, they work extensively across industries such as travel, brand intelligence, entertainment/media, retail, and consumer packaged goods.

About Bospar

Bospar is a boutique tech PR firm featuring a team of highly seasoned professionals who exist to put tech companies on the map. Bospar’s principals include a long-time PR and tech industry guru, a former broadcast TV producer and award-winning media maven, a standout PR agency manager from the corporate side of a leading global law firm, and an experienced executive with both large agency and public company credentials. Bospar’s larger team includes experts in both social and traditional media, as well as financial and analyst relations and public affairs.

 

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