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Goo Punch

Give me your top 10 NBA players of all time

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I just jotted this down, and i'm totally open to having my mind changed, and in fact would actually be suprimir my mind doesn't end up changed by the end of this. With that said, here's what I've got:

1.MJ

2.Magic

3.Lebron

4.Kareem

5.Russell

6.Kobe

7.Bird

8.Hakeem

9.Oscar

10.Wilt

 

next up: 

 

Shaq, Jerry West, Tim Duncan 

 

I struggled on most of these. I still can't believe TD and Shaq (and West for that matter) didn't make my list. Who do you got?

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2 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

I just jotted this down, and i'm totally open to having my mind changed, and in fact would actually be suprimir my mind doesn't end up changed by the end of this. With that said, here's what I've got:

1.MJ

2.Magic

3.Lebron

4.Kareem

5.Russell

6.Kobe

7.Bird

8.Hakeem

9.Oscar

10.Wilt

 

next up: 

 

Shaq, Jerry West, Tim Duncan 

 

I struggled on most of these. I still can't believe TD and Shaq (and West for that matter) didn't make my list. Who do you got?

Your list sucks, Kobe shouldnt sniff the top 6 LOL

1.MJ

2.Lebron

3.Magic

4.Kareem

5.Duncan

6.Bird

7.Wilt

8.Hakeem

9.Shaq

10.Oscar

Kobe and Russell and West are honorable mentions

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MJ

Bron

Kareem

Magic

Bird

Duncan

Russel

Wilt

Hakeem

Shaq or Kobe

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Kobe:

•one of the 10 best offensive players ever
 

•one of the 10-12 best perimeter defenders ever

•one of the most clutch players ever

•one of the greatest champions/winners ever

 

yet people still laugh at the idea that he's a top 10 player all time. i just don't get it. he's in rare air. essentially has no weaknesses. has all the rings you could ask for. yeah; i just don't get it. if only P and neverwent were still here I'd have some backup. 

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I'm not laughing about it he's just fringe top 10 for me. And I can't beleive you have an issue with it anyway - you don't have Duncan in your top 10. 

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32 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I'm not laughing about it he's just fringe top 10 for me. And I can't beleive you have an issue with it anyway - you don't have Duncan in your top 10. 

Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, and Big O are my last 4 in. tell me that Tim Duncan is *clearly* better than any one of them. I don't think he is. 

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17 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, and Big O are my last 4 in. tell me that Tim Duncan is *clearly* better than any one of them. I don't think he is. 

Well for starters, Duncan won more than any of them as the best player on his team. But "clearly" is a tough qualification to use. All of this stuff is marginal. I personally think it's easier to leave Kobe out of the top 10 (if just barely, and honestly I'm not sure he isn't in my top 10) than Duncan, but I don't think it's crazy to put either one of them 11th or 12th or whatever. Everyone in the top 15 is really fucking good. Even guys outside of that or bordering it like Garnett, Curry, Durant are all pretty comparable in ability to anyone in the top 10. 

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1 hour ago, Goo Punch said:

I just jotted this down, and i'm totally open to having my mind changed, and in fact would actually be suprimir my mind doesn't end up changed by the end of this. With that said, here's what I've got:

1.MJ

2.Magic

3.Lebron

4.Kareem

5.Russell

6.Kobe

7.Bird

8.Hakeem

9.Oscar

10.Wilt

 

next up: 

 

Shaq, Jerry West, Tim Duncan 

 

I struggled on most of these. I still can't believe TD and Shaq (and West for that matter) didn't make my list. Who do you got?

That's a really good list and honestly can't criticize your picks. I may have put either of Shaq or Jerry West in ahead of Bill Russell. 

With regards to Bill Russell, what are your thoughts on this article from back in 2010 about him? https://bleacherreport.com/articles/441840-bill-russell-an-overrated-nba-legend

 

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1) MJ

2) Kareem (longevity is outrageous for me here)

3) Magic (total mastery)

4) Bird - (legend)

5) Dream - (maybe the most diverse talent set of anyone. Like MJ - best offensive and defensive at his position, which is crazy)

6) Duncan (the perfect teammate. complete skillset)

7) Russel (elite team player and invented modern defense in the post)

😎 Lebron (polished across the board. Only knock is premadonna nature for me)

9) Kobe (lethal competitor)

10) Wilt (insane athlete. The Shaq of his time)

last stop really a tie for wilt / shaq / big O

I tend to value diversity in skill set - see magic, bird, dream, duncan over russel and wilt for example. 

but hey just my opinion

 

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^

No room for The Iceman on that list?

Savage.

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I discount big men who are relying on mostly their size to have success. That puts Shaq behind Duncan, just outside the top 10. Wilt is an example of size and a ton of skill.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, and Big O are my last 4 in. tell me that Tim Duncan is *clearly* better than any one of them. I don't think he is. 

Tim Duncan? 15x All-NBA, 15x All-Defensive, 5x NBA Champion, 3x Finals MVP, 2x MVP, unquestioned cornerstone and leader of the most consistently excellent franchise run in modern basketball history...that Tim Duncan? I think most would have him as clearly better than all of them and especially better than Mamba.

IMO, the top 9 is pretty much unimpeachable. In some order:

MJ

LeBron

Magic

Bird

Kareem

Duncan

Russell

Wilt

Hakeem

 

The fight for the last spot is pretty wide open, and I can see the merits for Shaq, Kobe, Oscar, West, etc.

Edited by aggie08

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The difficult thing for me when it comes to rating Duncan is how perfectly his career was set up with Pop and the front office of the Spurs. Everything you've said about Duncan is true, but if you took him off those Spurs teams and placed him on any other really good team from that era there is zero chance that he has five titles. zero chance. that, plus the fact that, as a PF, he wasn't a guy who you could just put the ball in his hands in the 4Q and say, "ok go win this for us" like you could with players like Magic, Bird, Jordan, LeBron, and Kobe. If you go to the old site and check in on these discussions you'll see that i always used to have Duncan around 8 or 9, while omitting Kobe completely, but for some reason as the years have gone by Ive decided to place more value on ball handlers/guys who you hand the ball to and tell them to go take over. 

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lawrence funderburke

cherokee parks

bryant reeves

wally szczerbiak

greg ostertag

todd fuller

tom gugliotta

joracio llamas

haywoode workman

rony seikaly

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and just to rebut one argument i can see coming- i know that plenty of other guys here, including guys like MJ and Kobe, also benefitted from playing in a certain system with a certain coach. no doubt. but as i was saying earlier, the guys who handle the rock and who could single handedly take over any game like that, to me, are more valuable than a PF who, while he was undisputed best player, was more part of a team/system that win titles, as opposed to being this transcendent guy who could just take over at any point and will his team to victory like so many of these other guys who handled the ball more.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

The difficult thing for me when it comes to rating Duncan is how perfectly his career was set up with Pop and the front office of the Spurs. Everything you've said about Duncan is true, but if you took him off those Spurs teams and placed him on any other really good team from that era there is zero chance that he has five titles. zero chance. that, plus the fact that, as a PF, he wasn't a guy who you could just put the ball in his hands in the 4Q and say, "ok go win this for us" like you could with players like Magic, Bird, Jordan, LeBron, and Kobe. If you go to the old site and check in on these discussions you'll see that i always used to have Duncan around 8 or 9, while omitting Kobe completely, but for some reason as the years have gone by Ive decided to place more value on ball handlers/guys who you hand the ball to and tell them to go take over. 

What a stupid, uninformed take. I mean this is epically bad. 

Duncan takes over a crucial Game 6 of the WCF vs Thunder and drills a turnaround baseline jumper and scores nearly every point in OT to take out Russell and Durant and send the Spurs back to the Finals. Mind you he is very old at this point and doing this: 

Duncan hit a 3 in the playoffs to send the game to double OT, but yeah, cant give this dude the ball and ask him to make a play:

Duncan hit one of the filthiest shots you will ever see that wouldve won a series if it werent for 0.4, seriously watch Duncan's shot, nobody hits a shot like that: 

 

Duncan averaged a triple double in the 2003 playoffs and won MVP and Finals MVP and singlehandedly carried that team to a title and ended the threepeat Lakers... but of course he couldve never had that success with any other team... GTFO 

He also never missed the playoffs one single time in his entire career, Kobe did. Duncan never failed to have a 50 win team even in the lockout shortened season. 

I could keep going with all his other game winners and clutch moments. Hopefully you see how fucking dumb your take is now. 

Edited by The_Great_Hornsby

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Bird belongs in any top five.

If you think Duncan was a product of the system he played in and couldn't be depended upon to step up in big situations, you're being foolish. That guy would have been great anywhere. He suffers from not being flashy. Plug any other power forward in his place and the Spurs would have been a slightly above average team. 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Everything you've said about Duncan is true, but if you took him off those Spurs teams and placed him on any other really good team from that era there is zero chance that he has five titles. zero chance.

You could say that for all of these guys. Where they were drafted (or where they play the majority of their career) is obviously critical to their achievements and legacy. It's not exactly a coincidence that 75% of the guys that we're talking about played for the Lakers or Celtics. Kobe wouldn't have 5 without Shaq, Phil, Jerry West and the Lakers. I highly doubt MJ gets 6 on the Blazers. It cuts both ways.

Edited by aggie08

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

and just to rebut one argument i can see coming- i know that plenty of other guys here, including guys like MJ and Kobe, also benefitted from playing in a certain system with a certain coach. no doubt. but as i was saying earlier, the guys who handle the rock and who could single handedly take over any game like that, to me, are more valuable than a PF who, while he was undisputed best player, was more part of a team/system that win titles, as opposed to being this transcendent guy who could just take over at any point and will his team to victory like so many of these other guys who handled the ball more.

Kobe could just add easily shoot his team out of a victory and often did. TD was about the most guaranteed 20 and 10 while playing perfect defense in a big game that there's ever been.

And your preference for ball handlers over big men is well understood... I just don't agree, especially in the NBA pre-Warriors. I just want the better player.

Edited by aggie08

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Kobe could just add easily shoot his team out of a victory and often did. TD was about the most guaranteed 20 and 10 while playing perfect defense in a big game that there's ever been.

Derka Derka: bUt TiM dUnCAn WaSNt fLAsHy

 retard" Meme Templates - Imgflip

 

Edited by The_Great_Hornsby

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

and just to rebut one argument i can see coming- i know that plenty of other guys here, including guys like MJ and Kobe, also benefitted from playing in a certain system with a certain coach. no doubt. but as i was saying earlier, the guys who handle the rock and who could single handedly take over any game like that, to me, are more valuable than a PF who, while he was undisputed best player, was more part of a team/system that win titles, as opposed to being this transcendent guy who could just take over at any point and will his team to victory like so many of these other guys who handled the ball more.

 

28 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

The difficult thing for me when it comes to rating Duncan is how perfectly his career was set up with Pop and the front office of the Spurs. Everything you've said about Duncan is true, but if you took him off those Spurs teams and placed him on any other really good team from that era there is zero chance that he has five titles. zero chance. that, plus the fact that, as a PF, he wasn't a guy who you could just put the ball in his hands in the 4Q and say, "ok go win this for us" like you could with players like Magic, Bird, Jordan, LeBron, and Kobe. If you go to the old site and check in on these discussions you'll see that i always used to have Duncan around 8 or 9, while omitting Kobe completely, but for some reason as the years have gone by Ive decided to place more value on ball handlers/guys who you hand the ball to and tell them to go take over. 

I'm not going to be insulting and I'm not going to get personal, but these two posts are among the worst posts I've see anywhere on Shaggy or Surly.  Go back and watch Game 6 of the 2003 Finals.  Duncan almost had a quadruple double (21pts, 20 rebounds, 10 asst., 8 blocks) in the clinching game.  I don't know how many examples of Duncan taking over a game you'll need to see to regret making these posts, but it just so happens that I have at least another month of time to provide examples if need be.  Your move.

Edited by Hate

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27 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

lawrence funderburke

cherokee parks

bryant reeves

wally szczerbiak

greg ostertag

todd fuller

tom gugliotta

joracio llamas

haywoode workman

rony seikaly

Hey Seikaly could ball!

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, and Big O are my last 4 in. tell me that Tim Duncan is *clearly* better than any one of them. I don't think he is. 

He's probably better than Shaq and Big O although very debatable.  The questionable selection with your list is Kobe, who isn't a top 10 player.  Fantastic player,  but not a top 10 player by most measures of advanced rate (PER, WS/48, BPM, etc). Take even his playoff numbers (since he's supposed to be ultra clutch and playoff tough).  He's 24th in BPM, 22nd in PER, 52nd in WS/48.  He does well in the cumulative stats because he played in a lot of games, but by game or rates, he's not a top 10 player, in the reg season or playoffs, even with a large qualification measure.

Edited by Patrick Bateman

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I seem to recall Tim Duncan making a certain college basketball team miserable too.

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

The difficult thing for me when it comes to rating Duncan is how perfectly his career was set up with Pop and the front office of the Spurs. Everything you've said about Duncan is true, but if you took him off those Spurs teams and placed him on any other really good team from that era there is zero chance that he has five titles. zero chance. that, plus the fact that, as a PF, he wasn't a guy who you could just put the ball in his hands in the 4Q and say, "ok go win this for us" like you could with players like Magic, Bird, Jordan, LeBron, and Kobe. If you go to the old site and check in on these discussions you'll see that i always used to have Duncan around 8 or 9, while omitting Kobe completely, but for some reason as the years have gone by Ive decided to place more value on ball handlers/guys who you hand the ball to and tell them to go take over. 

Dude... Duncan was the Spurs. I would hope everyone here knows how good David Robinson was, Duncan got drafted and was close to immediately the best player on that Spurs team. As a rookie he made first team all NBA. As a sophomore he won Finals MVP. Pop really didn't hit his stride as a coach until Tony and Manu were regular contributors. Before then, that team lived and died with Timmy. We didn't do shit in the playoffs the years that he wasn't 100%. 

In 2003 against the Mavericks in the WCF in 6 games Duncan put up 28/17/6 and 3 blocks a game on 57% FG. Then he put up 25/17/5 and 5 blocks a game on 50% FG in the Finals. That wasn't Pop wearing #21 in those series. 

Edited by ztejas

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46 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

You could say that for all of these guys. Where they were drafted (or where they play the majority of their career) is obviously critical to their achievements and legacy. It's not exactly a coincidence that 75% of the guys that we're talking about played for the Lakers or Celtics. Kobe wouldn't have 5 without Shaq, Phil, Jerry West and the Lakers. I highly doubt MJ gets 6 on the Blazers. It cuts both ways.

If Portland selected Jordan over Bowie MJ would have more than 6 rings.  That was a pretty salty team to begin with.  Other than that, I agree with what you said.

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55 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

What a stupid, uninformed take. I mean this is epically bad. 

Duncan takes over a crucial Game 6 of the WCF vs Thunder and drills a turnaround baseline jumper and scores nearly every point in OT to take out Russell and Durant and send the Spurs back to the Finals. Mind you he is very old at this point and doing this: 

Duncan hit a 3 in the playoffs to send the game to double OT, but yeah, cant give this dude the ball and ask him to make a play:

Duncan hit one of the filthiest shots you will ever see that wouldve won a series if it werent for 0.4, seriously watch Duncan's shot, nobody hits a shot like that: 

 

Duncan averaged a triple double in the 2003 playoffs and won MVP and Finals MVP and singlehandedly carried that team to a title and ended the threepeat Lakers... but of course he couldve never had that success with any other team... GTFO 

He also never missed the playoffs one single time in his entire career, Kobe did. Duncan never failed to have a 50 win team even in the lockout shortened season. 

I could keep going with all his other game winners and clutch moments. Hopefully you see how fucking dumb your take is now. 

okie dokie derka. not even worth giving a serious response to all of that bitchassness. 

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2 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

okie dokie derka. not even worth giving a serious response to all of that bitchassness. 

No response because you know you are beat. 

Typical Derka, take that little bitch neg rep you gave me and shove it up your ass. 

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42 minutes ago, Hate said:

 

I'm not going to be insulting and I'm not going to get personal, but these two posts are among the worst posts I've see anywhere on Shaggy or Surly.  Go back and watch Game 6 of the 2003 Finals.  Duncan almost had a quadruple double (21pts, 20 rebounds, 10 asst., 8 blocks) in the clinching game.  I don't know how many examples of Duncan taking over a game you'll need to see to regret making these posts, but it just so happens that I have at least another month of time to provide examples if need be.  Your move.

i knew this would happen. i never approached saying that Tim Duncan could not take over a game. lets remember that we're talking shout him being a top 10 player ever. of course he could take over a game, and i don't need a bunch of youtube videos as proof. the point i was making is that unlike a guard, a power forward isn't going to be handling the ball, bringing it up, and essentially running every play for his team from start to finish. that's all i was saying when parsing through the clearly arguable/debatable/more trivial points when talking about what separates player A from player B on my personal all time list, which i said from the beginning was subject to change.

 aggie understood me, but that's because he isn't a psycho Spurs fan with rage blinders on, i like some people in here (not talking to you Hate). 

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5 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

No response because you know you are beat. 

Typical Derka, take that little bitch neg rep you gave me and shove it up your ass. 

yes, you are behaving like "typical derka". come join the adult conversation whenever you're ready. 

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28 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

He's probably better than Shaq and Big O although very debatable.  The questionable selection with your list is Kobe, who isn't a top 10 player.  Fantastic player,  but not a top 10 player by most measures of advanced rate (PER, WS/48, BPM, etc). Take even his playoff numbers (since he's supposed to be ultra clutch and playoff tough).  He's 24th in BPM, 22nd in PER, 52nd in WS/48.  He does well in the cumulative stats because he played in a lot of games, but by game or rates, he's not a top 10 player, in the reg season or playoffs, even with a large qualification measure.

yeah, it's probably regency bias on my part with how much Kobe i've been watching since his death. as i said, i never used to have him in my top 10, and always used to have duncan in my top 10. hell, my all time starting lineup would be:

Magic

MJ

LeBron

Duncan

Hakeem

 

Im a big Tim Duncan fan, and he probably should be back on my list. however, the point aggie made about today's style of play also probably played a part in me moving Kobe up recently. we're so far removed from the "dominant big man" era of the NBA that i'm probably putting too much importance on perimeter players when in fact the league was dominated by bigs for much of its existence. 

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Like I said, I’m not going to get personal but you ha e to remember Duncan’s early years were played with the big man still the focal point of the offense. He may not have brought the ball up, but the ball went through Duncan on just about every possession.

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7 minutes ago, Hate said:

Like I said, I’m not going to get personal but you ha e to remember Duncan’s early years were played with the big man still the focal point of the offense. He may not have brought the ball up, but the ball went through Duncan on just about every possession.

yeah this is definitely something that i was overlooking, having gone back now and looked up some of those early-mid 2000's performances/seasons. he's the greatest PF of all time and really if i did my list again tonight i could see myself having back up around 7-8 all time. 

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1 hour ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

Duncan averaged a triple double in the 2003 playoffs and won MVP and Finals MVP and singlehandedly carried that team to a title and ended the threepeat Lakers... but of course he couldve never had that success with any other team... GTFO 

 

Duncan is great. No need to pad your argument with something that isn't even close to being true.

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14 minutes ago, Hate said:

Like I said, I’m not going to get personal but you ha e to remember Duncan’s early years were played with the big man still the focal point of the offense. He may not have brought the ball up, but the ball went through Duncan on just about every possession.

I appreciate how despite your name being hate and Duncan being your avatar you take a reasonable approach to explain why Derka is wrong. My immediate reaction is to pick up a baseball bat and start smashing shit after seeing Timmy left out of Dereka's list.

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20 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

i knew this would happen. i never approached saying that Tim Duncan could not take over a game. lets remember that we're talking shout him being a top 10 player ever. of course he could take over a game, and i don't need a bunch of youtube videos as proof. the point i was making is that unlike a guard, a power forward isn't going to be handling the ball, bringing it up, and essentially running every play for his team from start to finish. that's all i was saying when parsing through the clearly arguable/debatable/more trivial points when talking about what separates player A from player B on my personal all time list, which i said from the beginning was subject to change.

 aggie understood me, but that's because he isn't a psycho Spurs fan with rage blinders on, i like some people in here (not talking to you Hate). 

I think it's natural to rate Kobe higher due to his untimely death. I would guess most people right now are overrating Kobe to a degree because that's how you honor and remember someone that passes away too soon. 

I also think you have a point somewhere in there about Kobe handling the ball and being more of a gunner (even if you haven't quite articulated it). For example, in Kobe's 2 titles with Pau he was still putting up 30 ppg on good efficiency in the playoffs at 31 and 32 years old. Duncan never really scored like that, although I would maintain that he was a much more important defender, and ultimately I still think he was the better player. 

Point being I guess is that Kobe was good enough to swing certain arguments in his favor over Duncan. It will eternally remain a classic NBA debate, not unevidenced by the immediate direction this thread went in. 

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I appreciate how despite your name being hate and Duncan being your avatar you take a reasonable approach to explain why Derka is wrong. My immediate reaction is to pick up a baseball bat and start smashing shit after seeing Timmy left out of Dereka's list.

Lol...I have no problems with Derka and I think if most people approached him similarly they would find he can be reasonable. Kobe was always going to get more notoriety simply because he played for the Lakers and sought out fame an adulation. Duncan didn’t care about either of them. Throw is Kobe dying in such a tragic fashion, Duncan will be overshadowed by Kobe once again this August at the HOF. None of that changes that Duncan was the better player, better teammate, and had the better career...imo.

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Posted (edited)

Remember Kobe being a bitch and only taking 3 shots in the second half of game 7 of the finals to prove some kind of a point? Duncan wouldn't have pulled that shit.

Edited by Deej

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Deej said:

Remember Kobe being a bitch and only taking 3 shots in game 7 of the finals to prove some kind of a point? Duncan wouldn't have pulled that shit.

I hadn't heard this so I looked it up. You weren't exaggerating. https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200006090LAL.html

On further look though, he injured his ankle which was why he only played 9 minutes on top of it. He then missed game 3 due to the same injury. Not sure where the "prove a point" narrative came from. 

The Lakers did win the game but they probably didn't even need Kobe on the floor with 2000 Shaq bulldozing everything in front of him. He had 24 rebounds that game and took 39 free throws. Good lord. 

Edited by ztejas

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15 minutes ago, Deej said:

Remember Kobe being a bitch and only taking 3 shots in the second half of game 7 of the finals to prove some kind of a point? Duncan wouldn't have pulled that shit.

Huge win for the legacy of the 7 seconds or less Suns

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13 minutes ago, Deej said:

Remember Kobe being a bitch and only taking 3 shots in the second half of game 7 of the finals to prove some kind of a point? Duncan wouldn't have pulled that shit.

 

8 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I hadn't heard this so I looked it up. You weren't exaggerating. https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200006090LAL.html

The Lakers did win the game but they probably didn't even need Kobe on the floor with 2000 Shaq bulldozing everything in front of him. He had 24 rebounds that game and took 39 free throws. Good lord. 

You guys are mixing things up. The only Game 7 that Kobe played in the Finals was against Boston. He had an awful game (6-24 I believe) and almost shot them out if it, but the Celtics were even worse.

The game that you're thinking of is Game 7 against the Suns in the first round where he only shot 3 times in the 2nd half. It was a message, and he got Pau the following season, so I guess it worked?

The have ztexas linked Kobe only played 9 minutes. Can't remember, but I assume injury?

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4 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

The game that you're thinking of is Game 7 against the Suns in the first round where he only shot 3 times in the 2nd half. It was a message, and he got Pau the following season, so I guess it worked?

The have ztexas linked Kobe only played 9 minutes. Can't remember, but I assume injury?

yeah I edited my post. I thought that the game deej was thinking of was the Suns game, but I saw that he shot 16 times in total that game so I glossed over it. The 3 times in a half qualifier makes more sense. And that was the year Kobe averaged 35 a game. Total bitch move to disappear in the 2nd half like that in a game 7. I don't care what your motivations are. And pretty much solidifies that Kobe never won anything without an All-NBA center. Stuff like that is why Duncan is firmly above him imo. 

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Posted (edited)

Jordan, Bird, Magic wouldn't have pulled shit like that why they will always be ahead of him.

 

Edited by Deej

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1 hour ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

No response because you know you are beat. 

Typical Derka, take that little bitch neg rep you gave me and shove it up your ass. 

Dude, this is his thread. Either agree with his take or face the wrath of the Derka

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10 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Dude, this is his thread. Either agree with his take or face the wrath of the Derka

Oh, give it a fucking rest. We get it; you don't like Derka. Nothing he's posted so far has had the slightest tinge of "I'm right, everyone else is wrong." You're just doing your usual following him around like a stalker bit.

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