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Texas basketball 2020-21: Not even Shaka can fuck this up...right?

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Steamboat1874
Steamboat1874

He is also the best college play by play guy in the country so fuck off.

UTexasFight
UTexasFight

If Craig Way outlives me, I want him narrating the opening to my memorial service: “The deceased, laying from left to right in your mind’s eye, wearing his home jersey today: All black coat, with a

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Tailgate

Looks like we have an answer to the thread title.

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15931

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

 

Shaka sucked epic asshole for the last four years and nobody had a word to say, but now that he has one of the more stacked rosters in college hoops the story is "given time he's got the program headed in the right direction." oh and it's apparently time to stop talking about havoc? fuck off. CJ Moore and the rest of the CBB writers who don't even pay attention to our program can keep their hot takes. 

assuming Kai is gone after this year, here is next year's roster:

Jase Febres

Courtney Ramey

Andrew Jones 

Kamaka Hepa

Donovan Williams

Brock Cunningham

 

and three true freshmen. the program is not "heading in the right direction", it has a stacked roster for one year. next year will be back to the same old bullshit. 

Edited by shadow_operative
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DFW Horn

DFW Horn 6020

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Yo, money, it's gotta be the 'fro!

Think I'll spend more time here talking hoops about a Top 10 team than circle-jerking about assistant coach hires on the football board. I still think we stand around the perimeter too much on offense, but it's good to see our outside shooting improve.

SHAKAFRO - Barking Carnival

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Enchubben

Enchubben 5492

Posted
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

Shaka sucked epic asshole for the last four years and nobody had a word to say, but now that he has one of the more stacked rosters in college hoops the story is "given time he's got the program headed in the right direction." oh and it's apparently time to stop talking about havoc? fuck off. CJ Moore and the rest of the CBB writers who don't even pay attention to our program can keep their hot takes. 

assuming Kai is gone after this year, here is next year's roster:

Jase Febres

Courtney Ramey

Andrew Jones 

Kamaka Hepa

Donovan Williams

Brock Cunningham

 

and three true freshmen. the program is not "heading in the right direction", it has a stacked roster for one year. next year will be back to the same old bullshit. 

If our team has to either suck or barely make the tournament for three years to have a badass top 5 team in year 4 that can potentially win it all, count me in.  I guess my expectations are just lower.    The alternative is being just good enough to make the tournament each year and getting bounced in the first/second round which we seemed to be trending toward with Barnes. 

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15931

Posted
Posted (edited)

where did i say that i wasn't enjoying this season? has anyone here seen me do or say anything to indicate that i'm not enjoying the season? ever? my post was explicitly about the reporter and people of his ilk, not our current season.

is anyone around here talking about havoc? no. is our program "heading in the right direction"? no, we finally have one good team and a future that looks a lot like the past. so then what in the hell is this writer talking about? THAT is what my post was about. these guys who don't even follow our program and then come out with the laziest, most uninformed hot takes. shit is dumb. 

Edited by shadow_operative
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HookEm

HookEm 2432

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Quote

assuming Kai is gone after this year, here is next year's roster:

Jase Febres, Courtney Ramey, Andrew Jones, Kamaka Hepa, Donovan Williams, Brock Cunningham

and three true freshmen. the program is not "heading in the right direction", it has a stacked roster for one year. next year will be back to the same old bullshit.

I guess we will just have to disagree on this one.

First, Kai Jones is not currently listed very high on many draft boards (30-40 range). I would be willing to bet that he comes back for another year as he has the potential to climb up into the lottery with continued improvement and visibility. 

SR - Courtney Ramey - Will be a senior next year and a likely top-5 returning scorer in the Big-12. He has improved his FG%, 3PT%, FT%, PTS, AST, STL every single year, even with increased usage. He will very likely make an All-Big 12 team as a senior.

SR - Jase Febres - Another senior guard who has improved in almost every category every year.  He was our 2nd best shooter last year and will be a very solid rotation player / starter next year.

SR+ - Andrew Jones - Has the potential to be an All-Big 12 1st team performer with another year of recovery. Even if he doesn't get to that level, he will be an extremely solid veteran presence on next year's team

JR - Brock Cunningham - Consummate glue guy who will finally get some decent minutes as a starter. I would expect to see his shooting percentages continue to improve. But he will only get stronger and better conditioned over the next year. And his attitude will continue to push everyone else.

JR - Kai Jones - If he comes back he could be a monster. I could see him averaging 15 pts, 9 boards and getting 30 minutes a game on very good percentages. He will also continue to get bigger and stronger and will anchor our defense.

SR - Kamaka Hepa - We will need to see some improvement here. I think he has the potential to be a solid contributor off the bench, but will need to get better.

JR - Donovan Williams - Will likely come off the bench, but I like what I have seen so far.

So, basically we are going to be starting 3 very solid senior perimeter players who can all shoot and have good length (which is the key to NCAA hoops success IMO). And are going to have two upper class, versatile bigs down low (who can also shoot as it turns out). Of the bench we have more upper class depth.

And supplementing all of the above experience, we have a top-15 recruiting class with 3 national top-100r players (plus whoever else we may land)

 

For me, that is a near perfect scenario for continued success.

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15931

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, HookEm said:

I guess we will just have to disagree on this one.

First, Kai Jones is not currently listed very high on many draft boards (30-40 range). I would be willing to bet that he comes back for another year as he has the potential to climb up into the lottery with continued improvement and visibility. 

SR - Courtney Ramey - Will be a senior next year and a likely top-5 returning scorer in the Big-12. He has improved his FG%, 3PT%, FT%, PTS, AST, STL every single year, even with increased usage. He will very likely make an All-Big 12 team as a senior.

SR - Jase Febres - Another senior guard who has improved in almost every category every year.  He was our 2nd best shooter last year and will be a very solid rotation player / starter next year.

SR+ - Andrew Jones - Has the potential to be an All-Big 12 1st team performer with another year of recovery. Even if he doesn't get to that level, he will be an extremely solid veteran presence on next year's team

JR - Brock Cunningham - Consummate glue guy who will finally get some decent minutes as a starter. I would expect to see his shooting percentages continue to improve. But he will only get stronger and better conditioned over the next year. And his attitude will continue to push everyone else.

JR - Kai Jones - If he comes back he could be a monster. I could see him averaging 15 pts, 9 boards and getting 30 minutes a game on very good percentages. He will also continue to get bigger and stronger and will anchor our defense.

SR - Kamaka Hepa - We will need to see some improvement here. I think he has the potential to be a solid contributor off the bench, but will need to get better.

JR - Donovan Williams - Will likely come off the bench, but I like what I have seen so far.

So, basically we are going to be starting 3 very solid senior perimeter players who can all shoot and have good length (which is the key to NCAA hoops success IMO). And are going to have two upper class, versatile bigs down low (who can also shoot as it turns out). Of the bench we have more upper class depth.

And supplementing all of the above experience, we have a top-15 recruiting class with 3 national top-100r players (plus whoever else we may land)

 

For me, that is a near perfect scenario for continued success.

first off, Kai is not likely to come back, as he's already surpassed GB III in the eyes of many NBA scouts. second, the drop off from Matt Coleman to Courtney Ramey at PG is huge, and that cannot be understated. Ramey has zero PG instincts, and is a volume shooting 2 guard with the worst decision making on the team. That change alone will be a big loss, and we don't even have a viable bench PG to back up our SG-playing-as-PG. Febres is a role-playing one trick pony. Cunningham is a great role player but if he's our third best player behind Jones and Ramey then that does not portend success. 

that is anything but "a near perfect scenario for continued success", especially considering that we still have one of if not the worst coaches in the Big XII. 

Edited by shadow_operative
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PantsTent

PantsTent 1995

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If our team has to either suck or barely make the tournament for three years to have a badass top 5 team in year 4 that can potentially win it all, count me in.  I guess my expectations are just lower.    The alternative is being just good enough to make the tournament each year and getting bounced in the first/second round which we seemed to be trending toward with Barnes. 


This Shaka’s sixth year.
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Bitterwhiteguy

Bitterwhiteguy 153

Posted
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1 hour ago, Machinator said:

For fuck's sake, enjoy the moment for a little bit.

Yep.

Next year will be there when the season is over, and moments like the Kansas win are far too fleeting to blow past while staring at the depth chart 10 months from now. It is entirely possible it will be another decade before Texas posts their third-ever win at the Phog, it's okay to revel in the moment for awhile.

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3435

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2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

where did i say that i wasn't enjoying this season? has anyone here seen me do or say anything to indicate that i'm not enjoying the season? ever? my post was explicitly about the reporter and people of his ilk, not our current season.

is anyone around here talking about havoc? no. is our program "heading in the right direction"? no, we finally have one good team and a future that looks a lot like the past. so then what in the hell is this writer talking about? THAT is what my post was about. these guys who don't even follow our program and then come out with the laziest, most uninformed hot takes. shit is dumb. 

You'd do well to ignore national writers when it comes to specifics about your team, regardless of the sport. They never know what they're talking about. They're just trying to produce 5000 words for the masses. 

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Braff Zacklin

Braff Zacklin 13284

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Just now, Catdaddyhorn said:

You'd do well to ignore national writers when it comes to specifics about your team, regardless of the sport. They never know what they're talking about. They're just trying to produce 5000 words for the masses. 

As a recovering journalist, I can get behind this. 

The news industry is a furnace, and it needs a daily infusion of stories to keep burning. Despite the prevailing belief that the media has a political agenda, it's mostly preoccupied with shoveling coal.

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Js1

Js1 82350

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19 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

You'd do well to ignore national writers when it comes to specifics about your team, regardless of the sport. They never know what they're talking about. They're just trying to produce 5000 words for the masses. 

Unless you're Duke, Kansas, Michigan State or Kentucky, they don't know shit about your basketball team because you're just not that important. 

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HookEm

HookEm 2432

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43 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

first off, Kai is not likely to come back, as he's already surpassed GB III in the eyes of many NBA scouts. second, the drop off from Matt Coleman to Courtney Ramey at PG is huge, and that cannot be understated. Ramey has zero PG instincts, and is a volume shooting 2 guard with the worst decision making on the team. That change alone will be a big loss, and we don't even have a viable bench PG to back up our SG-playing-as-PG. Febres is a role-playing one trick pony. Cunningham is a great role player but if he's our third best player behind Jones and Ramey then that does not portend success. 

that is anything but "a near perfect scenario for continued success", especially considering that we still have one of if not the worst coaches in the Big XII. 

I’ll try to make this my last post about next year…

We as fans chronically underrate players ability to improve and adjust to changing roles.  Ramey's main role on this team is to be a score first gunner. But even in that role, he has still averaged 3.4 assists per game this year.  That is more than many of our guards through the years including: Corey Joseph (3.0 max), Javan Felix (2.2 as SR), Kenton Paulino (3.0 max), AJ Abrams (3.0 max). I realize some of these comps are shooting guards, but they also had to step in and run the point at parts of their career. 

If we look at someone like Royal Ivey, his main role during his first 3 years was as defensive stopper from the SG position.  His junior year, he averaged 1.6 assists per game. After TJ Ford left, he moved to point guard and proceeded to lead us to a 3-seed / Sweet 16 – averaging 4.3 assists along the way.

You mention Ramey being a step down from Coleman and that is probably true.  But not everyone on this board was super impressed with Coleman, bemoaning his lack of development, poor shooting and turnovers as recently as a couple of months ago.  So let’s compare junior Matt Coleman with junior Courtney Ramey:

  • M. Coleman – 12.2 PTS (44.1% FG), 3.4 AST, 2.3 TO, 1.3 STL
  • C. Ramey – 13.7 PTS (43.8% FG), 3.4 AST, 2.6 TO, 1.1 STL

Pretty similar. Coleman was a better defender and a little more careful with the ball.  Ramey was a better scorer.  I am pretty confident that when Ramey is given the keys he will be fine, especially with all the experience around him.

Regarding Kai Jones, maybe he will go pro – but he isn’t going to go above Greg Brown.  I hope he will wait until he is a lottery pick and I don’t think that is going to happen this year.  Here is where they are both ranked by a few sites.  Greg Brown is pretty much a consensus lottery pick.  Kai Jones is a fringe 1st rounder (for now).

Kai Jones

  • NBADraft.net – 2021 NA, 2022 #30
  • NBADraftRoom – 2021 NA, 2022 #18
  • HoopsHype – 2021 #67
  • Sports Illustrated – 2021 #25
  • Tankathon – 2021 #30
  • SportsNaut – 2021 NA
  • SBNation – 2021 #25

Greg Brown

  • NBADraft.net – 2021 #7
  • NBADraftRoom – 2021 #11
  • HoopsHype – 2021 #14
  • Sports Illustrated – 2021 #18
  • Tankathon – 2021 #17
  • SportsNaut – 2021 #10
  • SBNation – 2021 #16

Finally, I am unclear on the 5th year COVID eligibility rule. Perhaps someone who knows definitively can clarify.  As I read it, ALL players will have the ability to PLAY a 5th year.  Similar to Sam Ehlinger in football being able to play a 5th year if he wants one. 

If that is the case, it is possible that Jericho Sims and Royce Hamm will return for a 5th year instead of going to Europe or the G-League.  I suppose it is even possible that Matt Coleman would run it back.  Any of those happening would greatly benefit our team next year. I could easily see Hamm giving it a shot as he might even be a starter if Kai Jones indeed goes pro.

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HookEm

HookEm 2432

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Posted

Well, we recruit like a top-10 team:

  • 2004 - 1
  • 2005 - UR (one top-100 player)
  • 2006 - 5
  • 2007 - 21
  • 2008 - UR (one top-60 player)
  • 2009 - 5
  • 2010 - 6
  • 2011 - 7
  • 2012 - 12
  • 2013 - UR (one top-100 player)
  • 2014 - 18
  • 2015 - 9
  • 2016 - 6
  • 2017 - 5
  • 2018 - 10
  • 2019 - 14
  • 2020 - UR (but top-15 player)
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SEC

SEC 1174

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Great Pic...

Eq1S6zwXMAAEzbz?format=jpg&name=small
 

Last year, for the first time in my family, a bunch of family members got various kinds of cancer and we've been dealing with it ever since. My mom just got off chemo a few weeks ago from breast cancer, notably, and she's slowly recovering. We'd been lucky and never had to be around cancer before, so I never knew how ugly it can be. After dealing with all that, Andrew Jones became one of my favorite longhorns ever. What a badass.

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3435

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2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

first off, Kai is not likely to come back, as he's already surpassed GB III in the eyes of many NBA scouts. second, the drop off from Matt Coleman to Courtney Ramey at PG is huge, and that cannot be understated. Ramey has zero PG instincts, and is a volume shooting 2 guard with the worst decision making on the team. That change alone will be a big loss, and we don't even have a viable bench PG to back up our SG-playing-as-PG. Febres is a role-playing one trick pony. Cunningham is a great role player but if he's our third best player behind Jones and Ramey then that does not portend success. 

that is anything but "a near perfect scenario for continued success", especially considering that we still have one of if not the worst coaches in the Big XII. 

My instinct is to agree with your Courtney Ramey sentiments, but if you've noticed what we've been doing lately, more often than not it's Ramey, not Coleman, who initiates our offense. And the last few post game comments I've seen from both Smart and Coleman they don't view Ramey as quite the ball hog that we both do. Coleman, in particular described Ramey as Luka-like in his ability to see plays ahead of time. 

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3435

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I'm hoping one of either Sims or Kai Jones will come back. Sims seems to be great every other year so far during his career and next year should be a good year according to his pattern. And despite Kai Jones' obvious NBA prospects he comes from a west Indian family and culture that heavily values academics, particularly a degree with pedigree. So hopefully that and the fact that he's not currently projected to go in the lottery will give him the motivation to return.

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HookEm

HookEm 2432

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I don't think I have appreciated how well Coleman and Ramey are shooting the ball.  I went back and pulled stats for every perimeter player we have had in the last 25 years who averaged more than 10 pts per game.  That has happened 32 times in 25 years. 

If the season ended today:

  • In terms of true shooting %, Coleman would be #1 on the list at 0.592 and Ramey would be #4 on the list at 0.568.  
  • In terms of effective FG%, Coleman would be #2 at 0.538 and Ramey would be #5 at 0.531.

That is crazy to me.

2098309953_Annotation2021-01-04153937.png.ac781c6b24eefc88bf11a6ac89b875da.png

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Blotto

Blotto 23226

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Posted
3 hours ago, HookEm said:

First, Kai Jones is not currently listed very high on many draft boards (30-40 range). I would be willing to bet that he comes back for another year as he has the potential to climb up into the lottery with continued improvement and visibility. 

You probably could have said the same thing about Jaxson Hayes 10 games into the 2019 season:

image.png.7d4b9f137b39f002ba605f5276618cbd.png

image.png.dd49441f17edc180c85fefec9526d2e3.png

Those stats look awfully similar for 6'11 guys. If Kai continues to put up similar or better numbers in conference play, no reason for me to assume he can't go lottery just ike Jaxson did. If anything Kai has shown much better range shooting the ball. Obviously a ways to go before we start talking draft, but he reminds me a lot of Jaxson. Freak long athlete that gets more and more attention as the season progresses. 

Edit - checking blocked shots Jaxson has the advantage 2.2 vs 1.1, so perhaps Kai's advantage as a shooter is balanced by Jaxson's defensive abilities. 

 

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realgreggym

realgreggym 830

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

where did i say that i wasn't enjoying this season? has anyone here seen me do or say anything to indicate that i'm not enjoying the season? ever? my post was explicitly about the reporter and people of his ilk, not our current season.

is anyone around here talking about havoc? no. is our program "heading in the right direction"? no, we finally have one good team and a future that looks a lot like the past. so then what in the hell is this writer talking about? THAT is what my post was about. these guys who don't even follow our program and then come out with the laziest, most uninformed hot takes. shit is dumb. 

You don't have to say anything because everyone knows that this season is killing you. You hate Coach Smart more than you like the program.

You know less than many reporters. Go ask Kansas about havoc. You're the one that doesn't have a clue. Regurgitating statistics doesn't mean 

you know anything about hoops. Its just means you can regurgitate statistics and I can throw out a lot more names than you can.

Go to the Tennessee board and give Coach Branes tips on how to beat Alabama the next time they play. Just leave.

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HookEm

HookEm 2432

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Posted

I don't want to bash Kai Jones because he is one of my favorite players in a long time, so don't take this the wrong way.  I think he will eventually be an NBA player and maybe a good one. But he is not ready yet IMMO.

Even as a freshman, Jaxson Hayes was more ready for the NBA than Kai Jones is now.  Both physically and in his style of play. On the season Hayes averaged 2.2 blocks and 3.4 fouls.  Kai Jones is averaging only 0.4 blocks this year and that is with 3.1 fouls.  He needs development on defense.  He should be one of the best shot blockers we have ever had given his physical attributes.

His mid-range and outside shooting has been good, but he is still only 68% from the line.  Hayes was 74% as a freshman on 50% more attempts.  The extra free throws and blocks illustrate just how much more active Hayes was down in the post. 

I think Jones will get there.  I just hope it is in burnt orange and not in the G-league.

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DFW Horn

DFW Horn 6020

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Enchubben said:

If our team has to either suck or barely make the tournament for three years to have a badass top 5 team in year 4 that can potentially win it all, count me in.  I guess my expectations are just lower.    The alternative is being just good enough to make the tournament each year and getting bounced in the first/second round which we seemed to be trending toward with Barnes. 

Does our NIT Championship mean nothing to you, bro?

Texas Longhorns Win NIT Championship Over Lipscomb 81-66

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ztejas

ztejas 42744

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

in fact, of Jarrett Allen, Mo Bamba, Jaxson Hayes, and Kai Jones, I would argue that Kai is both the most athletic *and* the most skilled out of the bunch. he screams NBA player. 

He's definitely the most recent.

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