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Bitcoin and other crypto-The CR thread


GRHorn

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16 hours ago, Goredho said:

Hope none of you use QuadrigaCX, I mean Coinbase for crypto transactions.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coinbase-warning-users-could-lose-crypto-bankruptcy-earnings-2022-5
 

 

6847100E-2441-499C-B15D-ECCA608B1D5C.jpeg

Oh great.  Glad I only threw in $100 on a lark to see what would happen.  I'm at 1100% gain as of now.  If it dies, it dies.

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On 4/29/2022 at 8:05 PM, Immaculate Vibes said:

Lightning 

???

It sounds to me like they could benefit from an open monetary network, not controlled and manipulated by their former colonial masters. It’s opt in, so we’ll see if they feels it benefits them.
 

What will be interesting to see are the potential dominos to follow. If their partners in this monetary union see them not getting even more rekt than they were previously, I see others following. The whole union has about 150M people. 
 

Then you have the Panama move. It seems pretty clear that this movement will initially be focused in Central America and Africa. 

Central America BTC pioneers are now throwing off their colonial masters by defaulting.

https://english.elpais.com/economy-and-business/2022-05-10/el-salvador-expected-to-default-as-bitcoin-plummets.html

Their crytpobro president doubled down and bought more. And released plans for “BitCoin City” which is among other things a utopia powered by a volcano.

This shit is beyond parody and would be hilarious if the half of El Salvador that’s still there wasn’t going to be more impoverished and forced to flee to El Norte to….work for dollars. 

 

 

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On 5/11/2022 at 8:14 AM, Captainant said:

Wow sure sounds like a useful store of value that is magically durable against market forces and maladministration because it's decentralized. It's crazy that there's so much currency wrapped up in what is nothing more than digital trading cards that have zero real-world utility or function 

I know right, it makes zero sense. That's why I parked my money in Ape NFTs.

Quote

 

See, the value of Bored Apes is typically determined by the Ape's attributes, with the laser eyes, crown, and golden fur traits being the most coveted. Here are a list of its attributes and how many others have the same trait:

Eyes: X Eyes (243)
Background: Blue (1,242)
Mouth: Bored Unshaven (1,551)
Fur: Golden Brown (778)
Hat: King'S Crown (77)

Bored Apes are the ultimate store of culture for NFT collectors. The NFT collection has gained huge influence in 2021, with an ever growing list of top tier celebrities making apes their profile pictures on Twitter. With the recent explosion in popularity surrounding the Metaverse, rare blockchain-based avatars are all the rage for those looking to flex online.

 

This shit literally cannot go down. What's that??? the creator Yuga Labs then released another NFT collection of 20000 Mutant Apes? 

Quote

Holders of Bored Ape tokens were airdropped one of three serums: M1, M2, or Mega Mutant (M3). If a Bored Ape is injected with an M1 or M2 serum, the resulting Mutant Ape retains traits of the original ape. The M3 serum creates a completely different ape, with potentially rarer—and therefore more valuable—traits.

The airdrop was a great deal for Bored Ape holders, since they could keep their original NFT while minting a valuable extra token.

Ima be Elon Bezos rich in a couple of  years  months. Believe it!

 

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7 hours ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

This is so sad. The worst of crypto. A big part of why I disavow the rest. 

OK, so you have a favorite brand of fake money?  Which is it?  They all look the same to me.

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1 hour ago, Blotto said:

I know right, it makes zero sense. That's why I parked my money in Ape NFTs.

This shit literally cannot go down. What's that??? the creator Yuga Labs then released another NFT collection of 20000 Mutant Apes? 

I have a feeling guys who like the Bored Ape also like bottle service at the club.

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Quote

Bitcoin Tumbles In Wild Week For Cryptocurrency

One of the crypto industry’s highest-profile companies lost a third of its market value -- and that's just for starters.

Remind me why this is so great, again?

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On 5/12/2022 at 3:55 PM, 956 Worldwide said:

Central America BTC pioneers are now throwing off their colonial masters by defaulting.

https://english.elpais.com/economy-and-business/2022-05-10/el-salvador-expected-to-default-as-bitcoin-plummets.html

Their crytpobro president doubled down and bought more. And released plans for “BitCoin City” which is among other things a utopia powered by a volcano.

This shit is beyond parody and would be hilarious if the half of El Salvador that’s still there wasn’t going to be more impoverished and forced to flee to El Norte to….work for dollars. 

 

 

Since they decided to adopt bitcoin, the IMF decided they won’t get their next bailout loan package. Looks like the IMF will be taking a very active role in deterring bitcoin adoption. Remember they put anti bitcoin conditions into their latest loan to Argentina. The debt ponzi must go on. 
 

24 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

They’re in it for the technology, I mean “art”. I’ll admit I’m not smart enough to get NFTs. 

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1 hour ago, Bullneck said:

 

 

This is what i just don't get.  They are paintings/pictures.  But in digital form. Why?  Why is that a cool thing?  If this were like 1981, ok maybe.  But...I just don't.

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19 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

This is what i just don't get.  They are paintings/pictures.  But in digital form. Why?  Why is that a cool thing?  If this were like 1981, ok maybe.  But...I just don't.

It's for today's version of guys back in the 70s who wore TI calculators on their belts like phasers. Done right, it brings joy to some buyer, a possibility of profit for the hopeful artist, and definite 100% income for the guys minting the thing.

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Good news, Nigerians: BTC is now your official currency! And at the current rate of 7 transactions per second worldwide, up to 0.3% of you will have the opportunity to engage in a financial transaction each day.

 

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2 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

Good news, Nigerians: BTC is now your official currency! And at the current rate of 7 transactions per second worldwide, up to 0.3% of you will have the opportunity to engage in a financial transaction each day.

 

It looks more like a list of places where Presidents and President's Brothers-in-Law are trying to fiddle with whatever they skim off of foreign aid.

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1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

This is a hit parade of all the sound fiscal policy stars!

It is 100% the functional equivalent of the mass of rubes (e.g., folks who do all their shopping at Dollar General and the like) telling us all to invest in Beanie Babies, it's a can't-lose investment, and the only reason you don't support it is because you're in league with Big Finance and don't like seeing the little guy get rich!

I have nothing against the little guy, or historically underfunded and governmentally challenged nations.  I wish them ALL success, and I think we'd all be better off if they found success.  But I've seen this show before.  Many times.  I know how it ends.

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

It is 100% the functional equivalent of the mass of rubes (e.g., folks who do all their shopping at Dollar General and the like) telling us all to invest in Beanie Babies, it's a can't-lose investment, and the only reason you don't support it is because you're in league with Big Finance and don't like seeing the little guy get rich!

I have nothing against the little guy, or historically underfunded and governmentally challenged nations.  I wish them ALL success, and I think we'd all be better off if they found success.  But I've seen this show before.  Many timesI know how it ends.

With Bitcoin doing another 10x and its influence spreading significantly? We have seen that many times after smart people such as yourself declare it over. One day you’ll learn and you’ll get bitcoin at the price you deserve. 
 

6 hours ago, BrickHorn said:

Good news, Nigerians: BTC is now your official currency! And at the current rate of 7 transactions per second worldwide, up to 0.3% of you will have the opportunity to engage in a financial transaction each day.

 

I admire your commitment to so boldly displaying your ignorance on this thread. 

 

 

4 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

It looks more like a list of places where Presidents and President's Brothers-in-Law are trying to fiddle with whatever they skim off of foreign aid.

Probably so. These politicians are getting into it because of self interest. 
 

Here they are. 
 

We’ll see how many get orange pilled. 
 

 

 

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On 5/14/2022 at 11:50 PM, Biff Tannen said:

This is what i just don't get.  They are paintings/pictures.  But in digital form. Why?  Why is that a cool thing?  If this were like 1981, ok maybe.  But...I just don't.

72902H.jpg

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On 5/14/2022 at 11:50 PM, Biff Tannen said:

This is what i just don't get.  They are paintings/pictures.  But in digital form. Why?  Why is that a cool thing?  If this were like 1981, ok maybe.  But...I just don't.

il_1588xN.3829110799_5225.jpg

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2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

How is crypto any different than a tradeable stock?  What's the point of holding through a 50% crash?

Crypto doesn't represent any real-world value or utility, for one lol. A stock is a measurable percentage of a business, a bitcoin is a number on a ledger that holds zero intrinsic utility. Hell, even the most novel and evolutionary parts of cryptocurrency like DAO's and smart contracts are just horrifically inefficient replacements for current systems like voting shares or an actual contract on the public record.

1 minute ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Because several times it has crashed that much and gone up multiples from there. 

[Ponzi intensifies]

The only thing fueling your line going up is the influx of new stupid money with the advent of NFT's and shitcoins and pump and dumps which are all just mechanisms to drive demand for ETH and ultimately, BTC.

There's just not much to spend your crypto on in the real world. If you wanna buy a thousand dollar booster pack for your new age baseball cards, then it's the best thing since sliced bread. 

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2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

How is crypto any different than a tradeable stock?  What's the point of holding through a 50% crash?

Stock prices are based on earnings or expected earnings, the demand for this stock drives prices up.

Crypto -- to my untrained eye -- rises in price because of demand in the same way, BUT there is no company to own, no earnings, no product, no nothing.  All smoke and mirrors. Nor is there a sovereign country with economic power (US) or a coalition (Euro) that is a safe place to store value.  Crypto is untethered, so it's only as good as your marketing and as safe as your computer stuff/power supply. 

Crypto is hot because it can't be traced (good for drug dealers and 3rd world despots looking to hide aid money) and dumbass boys think it's cool.  

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3 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

How is crypto any different than a tradeable stock?  What's the point of holding through a 50% crash?

I’ll answer a little better here. First of all, you need to separate bitcoin from “crypto”. Bitcoin is the original cryptocurrency. It’s by far the most decentralized and most secure.
 

“Crypto” is a catch all term for other cryptocurrencies. These are almost universally very centralized, scammy speculative assets.

 

Bitcoin is a verifiably scarce bearer asset in this time of monetary debasement. When held properly it is both censorship and confiscation resistant. You can transact with it however you please. You can personally possess it, meaning outside of a bank. It’s no one else’s liability. 
 

Its value goes up as more people find the above characteristics attractive for either monetary/financial or political reasons. Because it has a fixed supply, surges and falls in demand can cause exaggerated swings in the price, although it has muted slightly over time. 
 

Not really sure if you were serious but thought I’d put it out there in case you were being genuine. Now others will chime in and we’ll have the same nocoiner vs bitcoiner arguments. I can expand however you’d like. 

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3 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

How is crypto any different than a tradeable stock?  What's the point of holding through a 50% crash?

A stock represents the ownership of a fraction of a corporation, let’s say that makes beanie babies. By owning said stock, you are entitled to that same corporations profits and assets from making beanie babies. If they sell more, you get more. If they sell less, you get less. 

Crypto denotes a unit of currency. It doesn’t represent anything of real use or utility other than that unit of currency. Unlike the dollar or the pound that are backed by the full faith and trust of the government that issued the currency, Cyrpto is backed by nothing. It is decentralized. That makes Crypto not a good medium of exchange, unit of account, or store of value because the whole point of fiat currency is stability. Crypto is not stable.

For example, if you and your friends collected hundred of beanie babies. You all loved beanie babies so much, you just decided to pay each other in beanie babies for good and services. Let’s say you’re a pretty sweet deck builder, so you build your friend John a deck for 85 beanie babies. Now between your friends, that’s awesome. But there’s only so many beanie babies, and there isn’t anyone to guarantee a certain amount of beanie babies for your group of friend. So if your collection gets wiped out, that could makes the other beanie babies more valuable. Of if someone lost their the keys to their lockbox that contained thousands of beanie babies. Same issue. Wild swings of beanie baby supplies means you don’t know what to charge the next guy for the new deck. John doesn’t know what to charge for the hamburger he makes. With increased uncertainty, it means less exchange of goods and services, which means less GDP, which means you little Johnny won’t be getting that GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip. 

 

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Disregarding the fact that crypto doesn't represent corporate ownership, and disregarding the fact that it isn't backed by the full faith of . . . anyone . . . it seems to me that people are mostly purchasing crypto to "make money".  Buy low, sell high, except I see people riding crashes all the way down, akin to a "buy and hold" stock investing scheme.  I've never seen the value in that.  It's a strategy, one of an infinite number of strategies, in a vehicle that is unproven and poorly understood.

Consider this ETF (BITO) that allegedly correlates to BitCoin.  It opened last fall at $40/sh, and is currently trading at $18.73/sh, which represents a 53% loss.  Were someone to trade it with a simple 10/20 day moving average crossover strategy, they would currently be on the sidelines at an 18% loss.  Sounds better to me.  It's a snapshot, it's not investment advice, and it could underperform buy and hold in certain crypto environments, but to me those who buy into crypto seem to have a pretty strong fanboi vibe, and capital preservation is an afterthought.  Without any intent to launch a sidebar about the wisdom of trading higher frequency than buy and hold, I'll lay out the 3 round trip trades (initial investment 100 shares at $40/sh, fractional shares allowed):

image.png.3a926cb1936d328dadf8a95bfee943ad.png

 

image.thumb.png.067b1bb3128f805cdaf8693ea5f6b063.png

 

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Besides these cryptobro types spamming this and other sites, that it has no intrinsic value like currency/stock, that it’s caused a GPU crunch, etc…the model itself requires a huge amount of energy that I consider wasted, environmentally damaging and yet another avenue for a gambling-inclined people to lose their shirt over.  

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1 minute ago, Homercles said:

Besides these cryptobro types spamming this and other sites, that it has no intrinsic value like currency/stock, that it’s caused a GPU crunch, etc…the model itself requires a huge amount of energy that I consider wasted, environmentally damaging and yet another avenue for a gambling-inclined people to lose their shirt over.  

Is there an estimate of the % grid power consumed by mining algorithms?

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7 minutes ago, Homercles said:

I literally just hung up on a call with someone who is working with an electric liability group in Texas, and is preparing a speech for an industry group on the state of our grid.  And he was provided stats straight from the horse's mouth.  

At peak load usage, bitcoin mining makes up 20% of the load in Texas.   And no, not all of those are interruptible contracts (in fact, he doesn't have the data on how many might be, as it's not a requirement that they be interruptible -- it's a choice).

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15 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

How is crypto any different than a tradeable stock?  What's the point of holding through a 50% crash?

i don't view it as that differently, but I am not a buy and hold crypto person.  Buy and hold people, in general, are not keeping their BTC/ETH in a CEX, but in their own wallet.  So setting up a stop loss sale is difficult from that perspective (or maybe i just don't know how to do it).  Whales are highly manipulative (sometimes seemingly in conjunction with the CEXs) so it's hard to read the tea leaves and guess the direction of the market.  Easier to buy and hold, but must have stomach for huge swings and you are counting on entire market going on a sustained run to lift a long period of DCA buys from the ATH. 

Whales want to make money too.  they still need to buy low and then move the market higher to sell.  You cannot time the bottom and top, but lots try to draft the whales moving the market up.  If you set areas to take profit and set SL to limit losses, it comes to resemble stock trading whether one sees any intrinsic value or not.

12 hours ago, Bullneck said:

Crypto is hot because it can't be traced (good for drug dealers and 3rd world despots looking to hide aid money) and dumbass boys think it's cool.  

crypto can be easily traced.  that's the point.  if a gov agency wants to find out where money is going and who it is, they likely can.  amateurs find and dox crypto scammers all the time by tracking how wallets interact to follow the crypto.  tracking is not recovering though and obviously freezing like with a traditional bank is not happening, but they can keep an eye on suspect wallets and pounce when it's moved to fiat.

 

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22 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Besides these cryptobro types spamming this and other sites, that it has no intrinsic value like currency/stock, that it’s caused a GPU crunch, etc…the model itself requires a huge amount of energy that I consider wasted, environmentally damaging and yet another avenue for a gambling-inclined people to lose their shirt over.  

It's just an objective fact that bitcoin mining wastes electricity. That's the entire point of it. 

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21 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Besides these cryptobro types spamming this and other sites, that it has no intrinsic value like currency/stock, that it’s caused a GPU crunch, etc…the model itself requires a huge amount of energy that I consider wasted, environmentally damaging and yet another avenue for a gambling-inclined people to lose their shirt over.  

That pretty much sums it up.

I've read that all the renewable energy ever put in service is less than the power needed to run cyrpto mining farms.  So, when it's 120 degrees next summer you can thank these assholes.

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I'm skeptical that, once electricity costs are accounted for, combined with the clear volatility of the instrument itself, that it's a big winner, but that's pure conjecture. 

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Besides these cryptobro types spamming this and other sites, that it has no intrinsic value like currency/stock, that it’s caused a GPU crunch, etc…the model itself requires a huge amount of energy that I consider wasted, environmentally damaging and yet another avenue for a gambling-inclined people to lose their shirt over.  

 

32 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It's just an objective fact that bitcoin mining wastes electricity. That's the entire point of it. 

It's literally the underpinning of any proof of work system. It's HARD to mine a bitcoin and takes trillions and trillions of random inputs to a complex calculation, that's designed to only be guessable once every 10 minutes.

So that means that when the network hashrate is about 220 million TH/s, that means 220,000,000,000,000,000,000 calculations are wasted per second. Given a 10 minute target block time, that means you're wasting approximately 

132,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

calculations before a single correct block is hashed ("mined"), yielding net new BTC and granting the gas fees to the lucky miner.

 

The fact that it's so difficult to do an consumes so much electricity is a feature, not a bug of cryptocurrency. It's what makes the proof of work valuable. Because of the incredible opportunity cost you're paying computationally and energy-wise to achieve it.

Edited by Captainant
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25 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Sorry. Was going off the top of my head. It’s a substantial amount, but in the grand scheme of things not really, given that a good percentage is based off renewables, using stranded energy etc. 


 

23 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It's just an objective fact that bitcoin mining wastes electricity. That's the entire point of it. 

Using stranded electricity from renewables is wasteful? What about from flares natural gas? Wrong. 
 

Honestly we’ve gone around and round with energy FUD. 

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5 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Using stranded electricity from renewables is wasteful? What about from flares natural gas? Wrong. 
 

Honestly we’ve gone around and round with energy FUD. 

As discussed in the other thread - this sort of set up of a small mining rig or a single rack at a site is NOT going to be representative of the majority of the hashrate in the state. The vast majority are going to be ran like data centers because it's a pain in the ass to your profit margins and breakeven on your specialized ASICs to have the lights go out.

You are being dishonest with yourself if you think that it's going to be all "stranded electricity". Plus, we should be exploring better electricity storage techniques - NOT capitalizing your ponzi scheme.

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39 minutes ago, gyroprotagonist said:

If you set areas to take profit and set SL to limit losses, it comes to resemble stock trading whether one sees any intrinsic value or not.

It resembles stock trading in the sense that if you take away all the underlying financial reasons why stocks move up and down, and replace that with tweets and vibes, then yes, it comes to resemble stock trading. 

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2 minutes ago, Captainant said:

As discussed in the other thread - this sort of set up of a small mining rig or a single rack at a site is NOT going to be representative of the majority of the hashrate in the state. The vast majority are going to be ran like data centers because it's a pain in the ass to your profit margins and breakeven on your specialized ASICs to have the lights go out.

You are being dishonest with yourself if you think that it's going to be all "stranded electricity". Plus, we should be exploring better electricity storage techniques - NOT capitalizing your ponzi scheme.

Where did I say it was all stranded electricity? Just was pointing out instances where it’s literally impossible for it to be considered “waste”.

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15 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The fact that it's so difficult to do an consumes so much electricity is a feature, not a bug of cryptocurrency. It's what makes the proof of work valuable. Because of the incredible opportunity cost you're paying computationally and energy-wise to achieve it.

You could write the exact same thing about someone who hides Beanie Babies in nooks and crannies near the peak of Mt. Everest.  It would be very hard to gather those Beanie Babies.  The Mt. Everest Limited Edition Beanie Babies would be relatively rare.  Yet they would still have no value beyond the people who find the very concept of scarcity a value-adder.  Once gathered, they are no different than a stuffed animal you can buy at CVS.  In terms of actual utility and function (cuddly, makes your kid happy when you bring one home), the scarcity makes no difference compared to any other alternative.

Bitcoin is valuable because bitcoin bros think it's valuable.  Every logical construct comes back to that answer.

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3 minutes ago, Immaculate Vibes said:

Where did I say it was all stranded electricity? Just was pointing out instances where it’s literally impossible for it to be considered “waste”.

You're implying that the majority of its energy usage would be from stranded electricity. 

You're doing the jordan peterson-style shithousery where you make a ton of implications in your posts and then when someone states the thing you've been dancing around actually saying, you retort with "WeLL i DiDnT sAy ThAt!!!"

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